$63 per hour ain't enough!

[UnderGrace]

But add the benefit cost to that because that is the true cost.

Maybe so at the high end of the pay scale.
Newspapers never give the full details it always depends on which side of the issue they sit.

 

[UnderGrace]

Look at what GM offered and tell me that it is not greed that keeps the workers from accepting it.
Did the union membership vote to strike or was this decision made by a few?
If these workers do not like the pay, benefits, and working conditions, than quit and find a BETTER paying job.
Whether it is $63 or $43 per hour, it still seems excessive for skill needed to work on an assembly line.

The world runs on greed ...that just is the way it is.

If these workers do not like the pay, benefits, and working conditions, than quit and find a BETTER paying job.

This only works in absence of a union, but I agree.

 

[SpoonJuly]

I have never understood a worker that does not have enough back bone to stand up for what he believes is proper pay, benefits, and working conditions but had to pay a third party to do that for him.

When a job is offered and you are told what is expected and what you will be paid, you have a choice to accept it or walk away. No one is forced to work where they do not want to work.

 

[dcontroversal]

You know.....I machined parts for F-16's, F-18's, Harpoon Missiles, B1 Bombers, C4 Transports and even the Aft propulsion system on the Space Shuttle....I had to hold tolerances that sometimes were as tight as .0002 of an inch and the most I ever made was about $2500 a week.....I never griped, complained, moaned.....did my job, took my pay and went home....I STARTED OUT at $200 a week and WORKED MY WAY UP WITHOUT ANY UNION rep telling me to strike for more $.

 

[Oncefallen]

I am no fan of unions.

I've always had mixed feelings about unions since today they seem to be more about making money for the union than really seeking out a balance between what is good for the worker and what is good for the employer.

Think back a few years when Hostess closed their doors because the union wouldn't back off on demands for higher compensation at a time that the company was already in bankruptcy. I'm sure a lot of those employees would have rather had their job at the wages they were making rather than being on the unemployment line.

However, at their beginning, they truly did a lot of good. Employee organization and collective bargaining brought about reforms in the workplace in the late 1800's and early 1900's long before federal or state governments did any regulating in those areas. Union companies were forced (via collective bargaining) to improve workplace safety (OSHA didn't exist until 1971), institute reasonable training standards, institute reasonable hours of serve (thank the early unions for a 40 hour work week). Different trade unions developed standards of work for plumbing, electrical, etc. that government building codes ended up being based on.

 

[JamOn]

if there was one sec that probably have a argument is coal mining, man that is such a health Rick environment to work in.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/...lucrative-but-not-for-those-in-the-mines.html

 

[SpoonJuly]

if there was one sec that probably have a argument is coal mining, man that is such a health Rick environment to work in.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/...lucrative-but-not-for-those-in-the-mines.html

NO ONE is forcing those men to work in those mines.

 

[Oncefallen]

20$ an hour seems fair to install a tail gate, but if you think about it the company shells out a lot for the retirement benefits and current benefits to workers. if I’m not mistaking company’s have to match taxes and other things also so with that is the true cost really presented with all the things a employer is required to match

The average employee only looks at what's on their paycheck without realizing what comes out of their employer's pocket to make it happen. My former employer (I opened my own company last year) paid (wages) between $15 and $18/hour for experienced painters whereas his cost (after matching taxes, unemployment insurance, workman's comp, etc) was roughly $34/hour and that is in an industry that in this part of the country that doesn't give paid vacations, paid personal (sick) days, health insurance, or retirement. Start adding those things in and the cost per hour skyrockets.

 

[JamOn]

NO ONE is forcing those men to work in those mines.

True but places like Kentucky in coal mining country the state hasn’t bring in other company’s like manufacturing. If your not in the hole there’s isn’t much else to do in those rural areas, yes moving is a option.

 

[SpoonJuly]

True but places like Kentucky in coal mining country the state hasn’t bring in other company’s like manufacturing. If your not in the hole there’s isn’t much else to do in those rural areas, yes moving is a option.

Yes, moving is an option.

 

[JamOn]

Average of 230 ships are dismantled each year in places like India and Bangladesh, Pakistan.

Ships from around the world are sent there each year, the workers make about 2 cents a day.

looking at the auto strikes really.

 

[Oncefallen]

What always kills me when employees get their undies in a knot over corporate profits is their lack of understanding of just how far that profit goes since it isn't money sitting in a vault somewhere. New equipment has to be written off over a period of years as it depreciates so that 10 million dollar retool at a GM plant doesn't show on their taxes as money spent all at once. Likewise, (using GM as the example) GM has 1.43 billion shares on the stock market. Each one of those stock shares pays a dividend to the shareholder in which case (when you consider the stockholders who own the company) that 8.1 billion in profit doesn't go far when it's spread around. A large chunk of corporate stocks are owned by middle class persons via retirement investment (no it's not all owned by those who are ridiculously rich).

 

[SpoonJuly]

Average of 230 ships are dismantled each year in places like India and Bangladesh, Pakistan.

Ships from around the world are sent there each year, the workers make about 2 cents a day.

looking at the auto strikes really.

View attachment 204144

How do you know they make 2 cents a day?

 

[JamOn]

Yes, moving is an option.

Yea there’s always sports to get that 120 million for 5 years, some things seems a little off.

 

[JamOn]

How do you know they make 2 cents a day?

I’ve read a story about it many years ago, this is from 2017 it may have reason to a few cents more but not much.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/dec/02/chittagong-shipbreaking-yards-legal-fight

 

[Mii]

Production is incredibly monotonous. I've done more than a few production jobs and I wouldn't do it again for sub $20/hr.

Some people are cut out for it but it's definitely not for everyone.



The only thing I have an issue with as far as benefits is retirement. Take a look at those drains...pay more, don't use that as a hook.

It's an interesting system that needs research/renovation (like with SSI)

 

[1ofthem]

Yes, moving is an option.

Yes, moving is an option.

Yeah, that's 31 counties in KY totaling 13,370 sq mi (34,628 km²), or about 33.1 percent of the state's land area. In Virgina it is Southwest Virginia Coalfield, an area of about 1,550 square miles . Then add in West Virginia and wow that's a lot of u-hauls gonna be needed right.

Coal mining is just another form or slavery. It picked up where black slavery ended. Look up the history on it. They came, bought the land and then made sure no roads of other industries were made in the Coal country so that the locals had no choice to work in their mines for whatever price and benefits they wanted to offer. Which was very slim and still is alarming compared to the rest of the world.

But hey they should all just move away from there like the Beverley Hillbillies in reverse I guess...lol You know Texas tea, black gold and such.

Appalachians are the most discriminated against group in America and no one even cares. Everyone is all about making sure immigrants have a slice at the American dream...right.

What about the Americans who have had to make a living by blood, sweat, and tears? Oh well, just a bunch of stupid Hillbillies so who really cares...Let's all worry about making it sweet for immigrants and folks in the cities where all the money made from Coal mining actually went.

Or hey, they all could just move away from there....

 

[1ofthem]

Sorry folks, that's my rant for the day....LOL

 

[SpoonJuly]

Yeah, that's 31 counties in KY totaling 13,370 sq mi (34,628 km²), or about 33.1 percent of the state's land area. In Virgina it is Southwest Virginia Coalfield, an area of about 1,550 square miles . Then add in West Virginia and wow that's a lot of u-hauls gonna be needed right.

Coal mining is just another form or slavery. It picked up where black slavery ended. Look up the history on it. They came, bought the land and then made sure no roads of other industries were made in the Coal country so that the locals had no choice to work in their mines for whatever price and benefits they wanted to offer. Which was very slim and still is alarming compared to the rest of the world.

But hey they should all just move away from there like the Beverley Hillbillies in reverse I guess...lol You know Texas tea, black gold and such.

Appalachians are the most discriminated against group in America and no one even cares. Everyone is all about making sure immigrants have a slice at the American dream...right.

What about the Americans who have had to make a living by blood, sweat, and tears? Oh well, just a bunch of stupid Hillbillies so who really cares...Let's all worry about making it sweet for immigrants and folks in the cities where all the money made from Coal mining actually went.

Or hey, they all could just move away from there....

Much of what you say is true, but remember it all began years ago when many just refused to leave and accepted things as they were.
These people have paid union dues for years making the union leaders rich and for what.
It is terrible work environment and people still put up with it.
It is never to late to say NO and just leave.

 

[1ofthem]

Much of what you say is true, but remember it all began years ago when many just refused to leave and accepted things as they were.
These people have paid union dues for years making the union leaders rich and for what.
It is terrible work environment and people still put up with it.
It is never to late to say NO and just leave.

They had no other opportunities. It was work in the Coal Mines, move away from your home and everything you knew, or starve.

They fought for a union in the 70's and got a little better treatment. However, big coal wanted no part of a union so once again the miners in Southeastern KY, had to do what they do just to get by, and that was work in whatever dog hole they could to support their families and let the union go or they were blacklisted and would never get a job .

There is no union in Southeast KY and this is what the miners got just recently: They worked for a month and didn't even get paid. Had no access to their 401k and could not even get unemployment because they did not quit or get fired. There pay checks bounced in the bank.

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/blackjewel-miners-protest-after-bankruptcy-leaves-them-without-pay/#x