Cop Not Indicted

[kennethcadwell]

Scripture takes an entirely different view of governing authority, which view should be the Christian's view.

Keep in mind that Nero, the murderer of Christians, was the authority when Ro 13 was written.
For it is better to have Nero, than no governing authority at all, which is anarchy.
And those who would reduce enforcement of the law because it is not done perfectly, are blind
to the disastrous outcome of their foolish thinking.
The solution is more good law enforcement, not less enforcement of the law.

And if by "of God," you mean not established by God, Scripture disagrees with you.

"The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Consequently, he who rebels against the authority (established by God) is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
. . .For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid for he does not bear the sword (God's authority to execute) for nothing.
He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer." (Ro 13:1-2, 4)

The problem is not what God has instituted, the problem is unbelief that "he who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. . .for he does not bear the sword in vain."

What we are seeing is the truth of God's word in Ro 13:4--bringing judgment on oneself for rebelling against what God has instituted.


Only if God were contrary to his people, which he is not.


There is no NT prohibition of capital punishment and, therefore, no sin to share in that regard.

On the contrary, Ro 13:1-2, 4 is just the opposite,
it establishes capital punishment (v.4) as instituted by God, as in the OT.


We must obey our governing authorities in everything except in that which requires personal sinful action on one's part.
I know of no such law in our code.


Scripture is not authored by human "common sense," but by God's wisdom and authority.
However, it seems you seek to interpret it according to your personal "common sense,"
rather than according to what it clearly and authoritatively states.


Ro 13:1-2, 4 couldn't be any clearer about the Christian's obligation to obey the governing authority because it has been instituted by God, and to rebel against it is to rebel against what God himself has instituted.

Your problem is not lack of information nor lack of a Biblical mandate.
It suggests blindness and/or unbelief.

I did not say government was not established by God.
What I said is that not everything done by the government is of the ways of God, and if you follow those ways that are contrary to Gods way then the bible makes it clear that you support and share in their sin. Which this means you are guilty of that sin to.
God allows things to happen, even the evil things in this world. He could come right now and wipe it all away again like He did in the flood, but that is not what His will is this time around. He wants us all to come to Him willingly through repentance of our sins and to walk the way our Lord showed us how to walk.
Plus there is a difference in rebelling against the government, and trying to get them to institute more Godly laws into their set of laws. Instead of trying to force us into following ungodly ways.
We can not support or agree with abortion, gay marriage, death penalty, or any other laws the government makes that are against God's. If we do then we are living in willful sin, and not showing the love, forgiveness, mercy, and compassion that the Lord told us to live by.
The bible clearly says that if you live in willful sin, you are not saved and headed to eternal punishment.
Like I said the bible even says that some believers will be fooled in the last days and take the mark of the beast, when he comes and establishes his government, and then they will share in the lake of fire. So if we are to obey all the laws the governing authorities pass, then by the two examples I gave you can partake in others sins or take the mark of the beast if he comes in our time and still stay saved. The bible says not so.

 

[Brainfreeze]

,


Ro 13:1-2, 4 couldn't be any clearer about the Christian's obligation to obey the governing authority because it has been instituted by God, and to rebel against it is to rebel against what God himself has instituted.

Your problem is not lack of information nor lack of a Biblical mandate.
It suggests blindness and/or unbelief.

1Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh and speak to him, 'Thus says the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, "Let My people go, that they may serve Me.


You want more control, officers, and government ... I'll take the opposite..

 

[Brainfreeze]

That was sarcasm. i caught your attitude a while back.

What do you mean ? I think I'm fairly kind to everyone equally..

 

[Elin]

How does an officer know that a man twice his size who resists being taken into custody is not a threat? That's exactly what
resisting being taken into custody shows, that
you are a danger and threat to inflicting harm on those required to bring you in.

How would an officer who must take down a man twice his size know that the man saying he cannot breathe is not just a ploy to get released so he can use the advantage of his size and weight to get away from being taken into custody as the law requires?

Keep in mind that the officer's job is totake the man into custody regardless of the man's danger and threat to the officer, and also
to get home to his wife and kids at night, so he can put his life on the line again the next day.

If you know you have a heart and asthma problem, and are breaking the law, why would you not raise your hands as soon as the officer approached so there would be no force necessary to enforce the law?

The man's resistance is solely responsible for what happened to him in a dangerous and threatening situation to the officer.

He was a citizen of the U.S.A.

Relevance?

.. He was treated and handled like he had a knife or gun in his possession " not a loosie ".
A single cigarette sold with no tax or license is or was this mans charge...

Nothing like minimizing crime. It's about more than just a "single cigarette."

First of all, it means they were stolen, for if the seller had purchased them, he would not be selling them for the same price he paid for them, but for a markup, and the buyer would do better buying them at the store. The buyer purchases them from the seller because they are cheaper than the store; i.e., they are stolen.

It's all part of the larger problem of theft of property.

You ask what could've been done better.. First, ASSESS the situation, second, TRUST or take into CONSIDERATION what this man was saying, HE COULDN'T BREATHE, third, CALM down, when a man is under pressure it's best to remain calm, you can think better... Anyway, I hear this isn't the first time this cop has had problems abiding by constitutional rights .. Some people just aren't meant to be cops others over time and good training, there are good officers out there, seasoned veteran cops know how to do what I listed above, it comes natural, they care about people, they carry the power, but the power is not who they our..they are real servants to the public.. They keep the peace, what I call A REAL OFFICER..

Without knowing the background of the situation, whether the man had already been arrested for selling cigarettes, whether the officer saw him selling them at the time, whether the man was telling the truth in his denial of selling them, you cannot make an informed judgment of the actual situation.

All that can be done is address the principles involved--enforcement or non-enforcement of the law against theft.

 

[kennethcadwell]

ALL SIN is equal. Rape and robbery are no more heinous than murder or arson..

Exactly, not one scripture says one sin is worse then another except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
The other scriptures that are given either refer to how bad/evil the person was during their whole life time, not just one sin they did. Or they refer to unbelief, like the case of the those who turned Jesus over to Pilate.
Those who turned Jesus over to Pilate denied Jesus was the Messiah, and they were the ones who were truly living in blasphemy......

 

[Oncefallen]

First of all, it means they were stolen, for if the seller had purchased them, he would not be selling them for the same price he paid for them, but for a markup, and the buyer would do better buying them at the store. The buyer purchases them from the seller because they are cheaper than the store; i.e., they are stolen.

Selling loosies on the street at an outrageous markup is common. The most common customers for these guys are either underage (can't buy them in the stores) or homeless persons who may have fifty cents for a single cigarette but not five dollars or more for a full pack.

 

[biscuit]

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[TD="width: 593, align: left"][h=1]Are all sins equal to God? Is all sin the same?[/h]

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Question: "Are all sins equal to God? Is all sin the same?"

Answer: In Matthew 5:21-28, Jesus equates committing adultery with having lust in your heart and committing murder with having hatred in your heart. However, this does not mean the sins are equal. What Jesus was trying to get across to the Pharisees is that sin is still sin even if you only want to do the act, without actually carrying it out. The religious leaders of Jesus’ day taught that it was okay to think about anything you wanted to, as long as you did not act on those desires. Jesus is forcing them to realize that God judges a person’s thoughts as well as his actions. Jesus proclaimed that our actions are the result of what is in our hearts (Matthew 12:34).

So, although Jesus said that lust and adultery are both sins, that does not mean they are equal. It is much worse to actually murder a person than it is to simply hate a person, even though they are both sins in God’s sight. There are degrees to sin. Some sins are worse than others. At the same time, in regard to both eternal consequences and salvation, all sins are the same. Every sin will lead to eternal condemnation (Romans 6:23). All sin, no matter how “small,” is against an infinite and eternal God, and is therefore worthy of an infinite and eternal penalty. Further, there is no sin too “big” that God cannot forgive it. Jesus died to pay the penalty for sin (1 John 2:2). Jesus died for all of our sins (2 Corinthians 5:21). Are all sins equal to God? Yes and no. In severity? No. In penalty? Yes. In forgivability? Yes.

Recommended Resources: Basic Theology by Charles Ryrie and Logos Bible Software.

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[kennethcadwell]

government was ordained by God. It isn't government that's the problem. It's humanity. A corrupt cop isn't corrupt bc of government which God created but because he is a sinner. He is flawed. Peaceful protests are great. Letters to your cobreeds men are great but until we get to the root of the problem nothing will change.
Also, some of your comments lead me to believe you have a little but if an anarchist mentality which is far from what scripture supports.

No not at all, but the thing is I do not deny or avoid to follow how our Lord Jesus Christ told us to live our lives by trying to incorporate OT mosaic covenant written ordinances that we are told in the NT we do not follow any more.
We follow what the Lord said, and there are 3 scriptures in the NT that says He does not show favoritism. Yet some on here would say He does, by saying that corporal punishment is allowed for some sins still but not for others. That would be favoritism by His part, which He does not do. If He waved corporal punishment on two areas, He would have waved it on all areas.

Yes people are to blame for how things have gotten, and because of that the system is flawed.
If our system was not flawed, all people could live comfortably without having to worry from one day to the next. You have some greedy, self-centered, unmoral people making laws that we are told to follow rather rather they are Godly or not. We can not support or agree with those laws, or we make ourselves guilty of those sins.

 

[Elin]

Innocence and guilt are determined by the courts after the arrest, not by law enforcement before the arrest.

Did the officer see him selling cigarettes?
If so, the man's denial told the officer all he needed to know about having to take the man into custody.

The officer said he did, but could not find or point out exactly who he sold them to.

Why would you expect the guy who bought them to hang around a crime scene where stolen property is being fenced, particularly if he saw the law enforcement officers approaching?

Is that "common sense" to you?

Plus if that was the case, why did they not take the guy who bought them into custody to, that's right there was nobody.

That's a no-brainer.

The officer assumed he was selling cigarettes. The man and a bunch of witnesses said no he was breaking up a fight, not selling cigarettes.

Like the many witnesses before the grand jury in Ferguson whose stories didn't hold up?

So he had no cause.

Poor reasoning.

People are not be put in jail unless they are guilty of something, if so they can sue the system for unlawful incarceration. Which does happen a lot, the public doesn't hear about that though.

The officers have no right to use any kind of force on a subject, unless they are being forceful back.

Resisting arrest is by definition use of force.

They even stated how the officer was put on suspension. It was the prosecutor who spouted the heart and asthma conditions, but that is not what the coroner stated was the cause of death.

Which all could have been avoided if the man had raised his hands when the officer approached.

If he were not breaking the law, why would he not do that, so he would have a chance to explain what was going on?
Because the man knew he was breaking the law, and the officer knew he saw him doing so.

 

[notuptome]

Selling loosies on the street at an outrageous markup is common. The most common customers for these guys are either underage (can't buy them in the stores) or homeless persons who may have fifty cents for a single cigarette but not five dollars or more for a full pack.

I heard that the "loosies" are untaxed and that is why he was selling them at a discount to what the store was charging. In NYC the tax is like eight bucks a pack. The store owner complained and that is why the cops were there. The city does not like when you steal from them the money they are stealing from you.

Ask any farmer no matter how much you stir the manure lagoon it still stinks.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Brainfreeze]

Relevance?
this means he has rights just like you " due process "

Nothing like minimizing crime. It's about more than just a "single cigarette."

are you saying he deserved what he got here ? and how do you know they were stolen ? Down here in the south, cigs are about 5.00 a pack.. In New York they can sometimes be 15.00 a pack.. are you saying it's impossible for him to get a few cartons from the south and sell them in the north, or are you just unaware of this ?

First of all, it means they were stolen, for if the seller had purchased them, he would not be selling them for the same price he paid for them, but for a markup, and the buyer would do better buying them at the store. The buyer purchases them from the seller because they are cheaper than the store; i.e., they are stolen.

Again no proof...

It's all part of the larger problem of theft of property.

Now you just gave this man a new charge.. Kind of slandering .. May God forgive you


Without knowing the background of the situation, whether the man had already been arrested for selling cigarettes, whether the officer saw him selling them at the time, whether the man was telling the truth in his denial of selling them, you cannot make an informed judgment of the actual situation.

none of this matters that you mentioned.. If he was a violent criminal maybe... But I'm sure that would've came out already on top of all the protest... From what I seen was more then enough to make a righteous judgment.. Cop was wrong here

All that can be done is address the principles involved--enforcement or non-enforcement of the law against theft,

again, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEFT... His charge would have been selling a loose cigarette with no license or tax..
.

Wow.. Answers in bold..

 

[Hoffco]

Gleason is a good Bible scholar., at least, he is on this one point. The modern day Fundamentalists, and all like them, are a CULT today. They are dead wrong on so many doctrine , the should be called a cult. love to all ,Hoffco

 

[Elin]

The thing is that Democracy was a dirty word back then because they understood it as mob rules. Meaning the stronger party always wins and rules. So
they started calling the system after Benjamin Franklin coined the term republic, but this day and age it is still a democracy. The stronger showing at the poles determine who wins.
If we were under what Franklin called a republic then all our voices would be heard and listened to equally, which they are not and has not for a long time.

Do you know the difference between a democracy and a republic?

This is why so many are standing up and protesting now, all it took was the right motivation to get it going. Now if only more people would stand up and
protest for their rights instead of sitting back and letting the government slowly take them away.

What rights has the government taken from you?

And we can not just blame democrats or just republicans, for Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton, and Obama have done this.
The taking away guns from all civilians was a Bush movement, that Obama has agreed with. Freedom of speech, religion, protest, privacy, and others have slowly been whittled away at or tried to be taken by multiple presidents.

Civilians are not without guns.
There is no Constitutional right to privacy.

 

[kennethcadwell]

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[TD="align: left"]Are all sins equal to God? Is all sin the same?

​

Question: "Are all sins equal to God? Is all sin the same?"

Answer: In Matthew 5:21-28, Jesus equates committing adultery with having lust in your heart and committing murder with having hatred in your heart. However, this does not mean the sins are equal. What Jesus was trying to get across to the Pharisees is that sin is still sin even if you only want to do the act, without actually carrying it out. The religious leaders of Jesus’ day taught that it was okay to think about anything you wanted to, as long as you did not act on those desires. Jesus is forcing them to realize that God judges a person’s thoughts as well as his actions. Jesus proclaimed that our actions are the result of what is in our hearts (Matthew 12:34).

So, although Jesus said that lust and adultery are both sins, that does not mean they are equal. It is much worse to actually murder a person than it is to simply hate a person, even though they are both sins in God’s sight. There are degrees to sin. Some sins are worse than others. At the same time, in regard to both eternal consequences and salvation, all sins are the same. Every sin will lead to eternal condemnation (Romans 6:23). All sin, no matter how “small,” is against an infinite and eternal God, and is therefore worthy of an infinite and eternal penalty. Further, there is no sin too “big” that God cannot forgive it. Jesus died to pay the penalty for sin (1 John 2:2). Jesus died for all of our sins (2 Corinthians 5:21). Are all sins equal to God? Yes and no. In severity? No. In penalty? Yes. In forgivability? Yes.

Recommended Resources: Basic Theology by Charles Ryrie and Logos Bible Software.

​

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How can I know if something is a sin?

What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?

What is the greatest sin?

What are the seven deadly sins?

What is the sin unto death?

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This is a false exegesis that some have come up with to make themselves feel better about themselves.
Saying well at least I don't do that sin, he is a worse person ( sinner ) than I am. Jesus says their is no such thing as a worse sinner then another. We will all perish of our unrepented sins rather you think yours was worse then anothers. This is the point He made in Luke 13.
Not to think of yourself as better than another, or your not as bad of a sinner as them. For your sin of unrepented lies will lead you to spiritual death, just as an unrepented murderer.

We were all shown love, forgiveness, and mercy for our sins. We are then told to show that to others no matter what they did. For their sin is no more worse then ours, and can be forgiven just as we have if they repent.

Did God have Cain put to death in the OT, or did He say a warning to those who would seek Cains death ?
Did God have David put to death for adultery and murder, or did He allow him to live ?

In both cases God let them live instead of letting the mosaic laws ordinances take place to put them to death because they pleaded or repented of what they did. We are not to take one's chance of repentance away from them, and if they do repent the bible make's it clear they are to be forgiven and not put to death.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Saying well at least I don't do that sin, he is a worse person ( sinner ) than I am. Jesus says their is no such thing as a worse sinner then another. We will all perish of our unrepented sins rather you think yours was worse then anothers. This is the point He made in Luke 13.
Not to think of yourself as better than another, or your not as bad of a sinner as them. For your sin of unrepented lies will lead you to spiritual death, just as an unrepented murderer.

.

There's competence, intent, and consciousness involved... not everything is the same Kenneth..

 

[Elin]

I did not say government was not established by God.
What I said is that not everything done by the government is of the ways of God, and if you follow those ways that are contrary to Gods way then the bible makes it clear that you support and share in their sin. Which this means you are guilty of that sin to.

No, the Bible only prohibits personal actions of sin, whether by government mandate or personal decision.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Indeed Dr. Gleason is a good bible scholar which isn't surprising given where and what he received his PhD in and from. Kenneth, not so much. But Kenneth can fill up post after post of erroneous exegesis (even after being accurately refuted). That, he is good at.

Gleason is a good Bible scholar., at least, he is on this one point. The modern day Fundamentalists, and all like them, are a CULT today. They are dead wrong on so many doctrine , the should be called a cult. love to all ,Hoffco

 

[biscuit]

This is a false exegesis that some have come up with to make themselves feel better about themselves.
Saying well at least I don't do that sin, he is a worse person ( sinner ) than I am. Jesus says their is no such thing as a worse sinner then another. We will all perish of our unrepented sins rather you think yours was worse then anothers. This is the point He made in Luke 13.
Not to think of yourself as better than another, or your not as bad of a sinner as them. For your sin of unrepented lies will lead you to spiritual death, just as an unrepented murderer.

We were all shown love, forgiveness, and mercy for our sins. We are then told to show that to others no matter what they did. For their sin is no more worse then ours, and can be forgiven just as we have if they repent.

Did God have Cain put to death in the OT, or did He say a warning to those who would seek Cains death ?
Did God have David put to death for adultery and murder, or did He allow him to live ?

In both cases God let them live instead of letting the mosaic laws ordinances take place to put them to death because they pleaded or repented of what they did. We are not to take one's chance of repentance away from them, and if they do repent the bible make's it clear they are to be forgiven and not put to death.

You are surely and slowly losing all credibility on CC.

 

[Elin]

Ro 13:1-2, 4 couldn't be any clearer about the Christian's obligation to obey the governing authority because it has been instituted by God, and to rebel against it is to rebel against what God himself has instituted.

Your problem is not lack of information nor lack of a Biblical mandate.
It suggests blindness and/or unbelief.

1Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh and speak to him, 'Thus says the LORD, the God of the Hebrews,
"Let My people go, that they may serve Me."

You want more control, officers, and government ... I'll take the opposite..

Are you saying that your response to my post is that you do not believe Ro 13:1-2, 4?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Why would you expect the guy who bought them to hang around a crime scene where stolen property is being fenced, particularly if he saw the law enforcement officers approaching?

Is that "common sense" to you?


That's a no-brainer.


Like the many witnesses before the grand jury in Ferguson whose stories didn't hold up?


Poor reasoning.


Resisting arrest is by definition use of force.


Which all could have been avoided if the man had raised his hands when the officer approached.

If he were not breaking the law, why would he not do that, so he would have a chance to explain what was going on?
Because the man knew he was breaking the law, and the officer knew he saw him doing so.

First, if the officer actually saw the selling of cigarettes go down they would have grabbed both the seller and the buyer not just one or the other.

Second, most of the eyewitnesses in the Ferguson case including the coroner hired by the Brown family supported the opposite of what Wilson and the other coroner stated. Coroner hired by the Brown family was not put forward as evidence to the grand jury. Only the state coroner's findings were allowed.
The coroner hired from the Brown family said two of the shots in Browns arm was from behind. Wilson stated that he did not shoot again tell Brown turned around.

Well I am sorry, but that is a flawed definition because if I just tell you don't touch me. That is not being forceful, which is the case here.

Once again did you not see the video, he did have his hands up for they were parallel with his head when the first officer touched him. He was still demanding clarification on why he was being bothered and the proof they had to arrest him. This is a very understandable question, cops should not be allowed to arrest anybody without being able to provide proof. Even the bible says by two or more witnesses should something be established. The witnesses said he was breaking up a fight, only the cop said he was selling cigarettes.
The officer could not supply or show proof to his selling the cigarettes when asked to prove it. This however even if he was selling and by what can be seen in the video. Does not justify homicide, which the coroner labeled it as.


hom·i·cide
ˈhäməˌsīd/
nounNORTH AMERICAN

[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

• the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder.