Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

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shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,746
7,749
113
I think you are giving our public education system too much credit.
We are taught it is a spiritual war in these last of the last days.
We know from scripture the first taking up will be for those of us who are looking for it, just as Christ has been hidden from many, perhaps those left behind will need softer hearts to receive His free gift of salvation and relationship?
blessings
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,687
8,226
113
Some Catholics do call themselves Christians, but what they call themselves is irrelevant. They hold to the essentials of the faith.
Frankly, I consider the RC system essentially a pit, a trap and a snare.
When (actually if) you wise up.......you will leave. And you should. ASAP.

Are there saved persons treading upon RC turf? Only God knows.
 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
2,082
778
113
65
Colorado, USA
Frankly, I consider the RC system essentially a pit, a trap and a snare.
When (actually if) you wise up.......you will leave. And you should. ASAP.

Are there saved persons treading upon RC turf? Only God knows.
I'm not a member of the RCC. I do believe some members there are saved, in spite of their many false teachings. But on the essentials we agree.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,687
8,226
113
The reformers et al weren't any better.
The Waldensians did what they had to do. At great cost.
And there is no doubt that the nutter RC despots were the antagonists.

Alexis Muston, a 19th-century French Protestant pastor based in Bordeaux, claimed in L'Israel des Alpes (Paris 1852) that neither Duke Charles Emmanuel II of Savoy nor the Waldensians themselves had sought to wage war, and both parties were content with maintaining the peace. It was due to the constant pressure exerted by New Council of Propagation of the Faith and the Extermination of Heresy (Concilium Novum de Propaganda Fide et Extirpandis Haereticis)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,687
8,226
113
Not anymore than many other current denominations.
No, not true. At all.

The legit Church understands and knows and confesses faith alone by grace alone.

Why?
Because WE understand that eternal life is of INFINITE VALUE. Therefore an eternity of working will never be sufficient to EARN salvation.
Which is why salvation and eternal life MUST BE A GIFT.

And incidentally, an eternity of paying for sins in the lake of fire will never be enough to punch your ticket out of there either. Just thought I would mention that for all of those annihilationist's out there like @Magenta .
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,262
6,590
113
The point I was trying to make Is that Penn Ed said that any SANE person would know that getting the shot Is Insane but he defends and defends very strongly a crazy man because Donald Trump got the shot.
Are you saying that everyone who got the shot was crazy or are you saying that the shot made people crazy?
 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
2,082
778
113
65
Colorado, USA
No, not true. At all.

The legit Church understands and knows and confesses faith alone by grace alone.

Why?
Because WE understand that eternal life is of INFINITE VALUE. Therefore an eternity of working will never be sufficient to EARN salvation.
Which is why salvation and eternal life MUST BE A GIFT.

And incidentally, an eternity of paying for sins in the lake of fire will never be enough to punch your ticket out of there either. Just thought I would mention that for all of those annihilationist's out there like @Magenta .
So is the "work" of understanding faith alone by grace alone a requirement for salvation?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,262
6,590
113
Some Catholics do call themselves Christians, but what they call themselves is irrelevant. They hold to the essentials of the faith.
Some of the things the Catholics believe

https://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

16. To whom is given the task of authentically interpreting the deposit of faith?

85-90
100

The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the deposit of faith has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone, that is, to the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome, and to the bishops in communion with him. To this Magisterium, which in the service of the Word of God enjoys the certain charism of truth, belongs also the task of defining dogmas which are formulations of the truths contained in divine Revelation. This authority of the Magisterium also extends to those truths necessarily connected with Revelation.

19. How is Sacred Scripture to be read?

109-119
137

Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted with the help of the Holy Spirit and under the guidance of the Magisterium of the Church according to three criteria: 1) it must be read with attention to the content and unity of the whole of Scripture; 2) it must be read within the living Tradition of the Church; 3) it must be read with attention to the analogy of faith, that is, the inner harmony which exists among the truths of the faith themselves.

96. What does the “Immaculate Conception” mean?

487-492
508

God freely chose Mary from all eternity to be the Mother of his Son. In order to carry out her mission she herself was conceived immaculate. This means that, thanks to the grace of God and in anticipation of the merits of Jesus Christ, Mary was preserved from original sin from the first instant of her conception.

97. How does Mary cooperate in the divine plan of salvation?

493-494
508-511

By the grace of God Mary was kept free from every personal sin her whole life long. She is the one who is “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), “the all holy”. When the angel announced to her that she would give birth to “the Son of the Most High” (Luke 1:32), she freely gave her consent with “the obedience of faith” (Romans 1:5). Mary thus gave herself entirely to the person and work of her Son Jesus, espousing wholeheartedly the divine will regarding salvation.

182. What is the mission of the Pope?

880-882
936-937

The Pope, Bishop of Rome and the Successor of Saint Peter, is the perpetual, visible source and foundation of the unity of the Church. He is the vicar of Christ, the head of the College of bishops and pastor of the universal Church over which he has by divine institution full, supreme, immediate, and universal power.

185. When is the infallibility of the Magisterium exercised?

890-891

Infallibility is exercised when the Roman Pontiff, in virtue of his office as the Supreme Pastor of the Church, or the College of Bishops, in union with the Pope especially when joined together in an Ecumenical Council, proclaim by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. Infallibility is also exercised when the Pope and Bishops in their ordinary Magisterium are in agreement in proposing a doctrine as definitive. Every one of the faithful must adhere to such teaching with the obedience of faith.


197. How does the Virgin Mary help the Church?

965-970
974-975

After the Ascension of her Son, the Virgin Mary aided the beginnings of the Church with her prayers. Even after her Assumption into heaven, she continues to intercede for her children, to be a model of faith and charity for all, and to exercise over them a salutary influence deriving from the superabundant merits of Christ. The faithful see in Mary an image and an anticipation of the resurrection that awaits them and they invoke her as advocate, helper, benefactress and mediatrix.

198. What kind of devotion is directed to the holy Virgin?

971

It is a singular kind of devotion which differs essentially from the cult of adoration given only to the Most Holy Trinity. This special veneration directed to Mary finds particular expression in the liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and in Marian prayers such as the holy Rosary which is a compendium of the whole Gospel.

210. What is purgatory?

1030-1031
1054

Purgatory is the state of those who die in God’s friendship, assured of their eternal salvation, but who still have need of purification to enter into the happiness of heaven.

211. How can we help the souls being purified in purgatory?

1032

Because of the communion of saints, the faithful who are still pilgrims on earth are able to help the souls in purgatory by offering prayers in suffrage for them, especially the Eucharistic sacrifice. They also help them by almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance.

240. What is the purpose of holy images?

1159-1161
1192

The image of Christ is the liturgical icon par excellence. Other images, representations of Our Lady and of the Saints, signify Christ who is glorified in them. They proclaim the same Gospel message that Sacred Scripture communicates by the word and they help to awaken and nourish the faith of believers.

258. Why does the Church baptize infants?

1250

The Church baptizes infants because they are born with original sin. They need to be freed from the power of the Evil One and brought into that realm of freedom which belongs to the children of God.

283. What is the meaning of transubstantiation?

1376-1377
1413

Transubstantiation means the change of the whole substance of bread into the substance of the Body of Christ and of the whole substance of wine into the substance of his Blood. This change is brought about in the eucharistic prayer through the efficacy of the word of Christ and by the action of the Holy Spirit. However, the outward characteristics of bread and wine, that is the “eucharistic species”, remain unaltered.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,262
6,590
113
But a Catholic would never call themselves a Christian, or they never used to. It's the church universal or nothing.
Did I miss something, did someone say that if Trump were Catholic they wouldn't support him?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,687
8,226
113
So is the "work" of understanding faith alone by grace alone a requirement for salvation?
Yea, like I said:
The RCC works AND faith scheme (aka earning your salvation) is utterly unbiblical in every way.

And here you go buddy. The Paul VI Audience Hall or the Hall of the Pontifical Audiences. Clearly, such an edifice has been intentionally designed to exhibit these exacting specifications down to the finest detail don't you think?

I am sure you have never ever seen or heard of this. But then again, we Christians are the real wise guys of this present age now aren't we?

1695687590617.png

1695687504691.png
 
Sep 19, 2023
127
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No, not true. At all.

The legit Church understands and knows and confesses faith alone by grace alone.

ER] .
You know, there are a lot of world religions out there, and yours is just as man-made as any of them. Your fundamental tenet here was not expressed by Jesus in any way whatsoever. It was written by a murderer and narcissistic braggart who came after Jesus and denied all the obedience to the law that Jesus taught. And you expressly omitted Jesus from your statement of theology, which makes what you believe equal in value to any other religion that denies Jesus. And you are one of the nastiest people I have ever encountered, which strongly indicates your lack of relationship with Jesus.

"God is spirit and His worshippers worship Him in spirit and in truth." Worship: an action.

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength." A commandment.

"Love your neighbor as yourself."
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, that you love one another."

All Jesus's personal teachings. All action based.

So for the many insults you have posted on this forum personally attacking me, sir, I forgive you, and I usually try to avoid responding to confrontational people like you, but you created the opportunity for me to show you just how far from Jesus your thinking is, so I am telling you right now: you seriously ought to consider the Lord's judgement with regard to your hateful attitude toward other people.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
4,706
2,012
113
Did I miss something, did someone say that if Trump were Catholic they wouldn't support him?

No, someone said Biden is a Christian and I said "no he is a Catholic" now we're in discussion over what Catholics believe. From my upbringing you're either a Catholic or you aren't. You call yourself Catholic, not Christian.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,687
8,226
113
Some of the things the Catholics believe

https://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

16. To whom is given the task of authentically interpreting the deposit of faith?

85-90
100

The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the deposit of faith has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone, that is, to the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome, and to the bishops in communion with him. To this Magisterium, which in the service of the Word of God enjoys the certain charism of truth, belongs also the task of defining dogmas which are formulations of the truths contained in divine Revelation. This authority of the Magisterium also extends to those truths necessarily connected with Revelation.

19. How is Sacred Scripture to be read?

109-119
137

Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted with the help of the Holy Spirit and under the guidance of the Magisterium of the Church according to three criteria: 1) it must be read with attention to the content and unity of the whole of Scripture; 2) it must be read within the living Tradition of the Church; 3) it must be read with attention to the analogy of faith, that is, the inner harmony which exists among the truths of the faith themselves.

96. What does the “Immaculate Conception” mean?

487-492
508

God freely chose Mary from all eternity to be the Mother of his Son. In order to carry out her mission she herself was conceived immaculate. This means that, thanks to the grace of God and in anticipation of the merits of Jesus Christ, Mary was preserved from original sin from the first instant of her conception.

97. How does Mary cooperate in the divine plan of salvation?

493-494
508-511

By the grace of God Mary was kept free from every personal sin her whole life long. She is the one who is “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), “the all holy”. When the angel announced to her that she would give birth to “the Son of the Most High” (Luke 1:32), she freely gave her consent with “the obedience of faith” (Romans 1:5). Mary thus gave herself entirely to the person and work of her Son Jesus, espousing wholeheartedly the divine will regarding salvation.

182. What is the mission of the Pope?

880-882
936-937

The Pope, Bishop of Rome and the Successor of Saint Peter, is the perpetual, visible source and foundation of the unity of the Church. He is the vicar of Christ, the head of the College of bishops and pastor of the universal Church over which he has by divine institution full, supreme, immediate, and universal power.

185. When is the infallibility of the Magisterium exercised?

890-891

Infallibility is exercised when the Roman Pontiff, in virtue of his office as the Supreme Pastor of the Church, or the College of Bishops, in union with the Pope especially when joined together in an Ecumenical Council, proclaim by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. Infallibility is also exercised when the Pope and Bishops in their ordinary Magisterium are in agreement in proposing a doctrine as definitive. Every one of the faithful must adhere to such teaching with the obedience of faith.
"Abandon your posts! Flee flee for your lives!"
-Denethor
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,687
8,226
113
You know, there are a lot of world religions out there, and yours is just as man-made as any of them. Your fundamental tenet here was not expressed by Jesus in any way whatsoever. It was written by a murderer and narcissistic braggart who came after Jesus and denied all the obedience to the law that Jesus taught. And you expressly omitted Jesus from your statement of theology, which makes what you believe equal in value to any other religion that denies Jesus. And you are one of the nastiest people I have ever encountered, which strongly indicates your lack of relationship with Jesus.

"God is spirit and His worshippers worship Him in spirit and in truth." Worship: an action.

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength." A commandment.

"Love your neighbor as yourself."
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, that you love one another."

All Jesus's personal teachings. All action based.

So for the many insults you have posted on this forum personally attacking me, sir, I forgive you, and I usually try to avoid responding to confrontational people like you, but you created the opportunity for me to show you just how far from Jesus your thinking is, so I am telling you right now: you seriously ought to consider the Lord's judgement with regard to your hateful attitude toward other people.
Yeah it's by God's grace (alone) through faith (alone) in the Living Lord Jesus YHVH.
And as I explained earlier, it MUST be a gift of grace because eternal life, being itself infinite, is of infinite value. Something we can neither earn nor pay for.....ever.

Did I rub you the wrong way with these chafing yet profound and biblically accurate assertions?

Maybe try some Gold Bond or Lanacane. And then crack that Bible of yours open and find out what's actually in there.
 
Sep 19, 2023
127
18
18
Yeah it's by God's grace (alone) through faith (alone) in the Living Lord Jesus YHVH.
And as I explained earlier, it MUST be a gift of grace because eternal life, being itself infinite, is of infinite value. Something we can neither earn nor pay for.....ever.

Did I rub you the wrong way with these chafing yet profound and biblically accurate assertions?

Maybe try some Gold Bond or Lanacane. And then crack that Bible of yours open and find out what's actually in there.
Dude I just quoted 5 Bible verses to you straight out of Jesus's mouth.

Also you need to stop insulting people.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,687
8,226
113
denied all the obedience to the law that Jesus taught.
Okay buddy. You have your law/works, I have my faith. Game on.
Let's see who makes it to the finish line friend.

Just an FYI buddy: The "seven times" Judgement of Leviticus 26 has ended. Not sure if that makes any sense to you but it sure does to me.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,687
8,226
113
Dude I just quoted 5 Bible verses to you straight out of Jesus's mouth.

Also you need to stop insulting people.
And you need to keep those laws perfectly. Now get to it. And for pity's sake don't slip up.

As for me, I will be RESTING in Jesus bosom, in full assurance of my salvation.
 
Sep 19, 2023
127
18
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Okay buddy. You have your law/works, I have my faith. Game on.
Let's see who makes it to the finish line friend.

Just an FYI buddy: The "seven times" Judgement of Leviticus 26 has ended. Not sure if that makes any sense to you but it sure does to me.
Sir, don't call me buddy.

I have Jesus and I conscientiously try to obey his commandment to love.

I have no desire to compete with you.

Your constant remarks on my intelligence are very inappropriate.

In fact, calling someone unintelligent is like calling them a fool, and Jesus said you can go to hell for that.

So cease and desist, sir.