Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

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Sep 19, 2023
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It would take too long to go through all the errors here. I'll just keep you in prayer.
That is a very unfair response. I put diligent thoughts and conscientious work into what I wrote. I am very willing to listen to reason. But if you think it is better to withhold correction from me and merely pray for me from a distance instead, then may the Lord do the same unto you. Besides, doesn't the Bible say somewhere that to pray for someone while deliberately choosing to not help them is wicked?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Catholics are Christian. They hold to the essentials of the faith.
Not really. The fundamental essential of the faith is that we are saved by grace through faith, and not of ourselves. It is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast. The Catholic Church totally reject this.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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You know, there are a lot of world religions out there, and yours is just as man-made as any of them. Your fundamental tenet here was not expressed by Jesus in any way whatsoever. It was written by a murderer and narcissistic braggart who came after Jesus and denied all the obedience to the law that Jesus taught.
When someone insults the apostle Paul in this manner, it shows a total ignorance of the New Testament, and Paul's relationship to Christ. Add to that the fact that you believe that evil Joe Biden is a saint. This means that you have no grasp of reality or the Bible.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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I'm not a member of the RCC. I do believe some members there are saved, in spite of their many false teachings. But on the essentials we agree.
What are these "essentials" that you say Catholics have in common with Christians?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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That is a very unfair response. I put diligent thoughts and conscientious work into what I wrote. I am very willing to listen to reason. But if you think it is better to withhold correction from me and merely pray for me from a distance instead, then may the Lord do the same unto you. Besides, doesn't the Bible say somewhere that to pray for someone while deliberately choosing to not help them is wicked?
You never responded to what I wrote concerning Paul in a thread on talking to Jesus. Instead of judging others, why not focus on judging yourself?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Paul constantly reminded his readers about his great suffering for their sakes. This is not love for Jesus. This is treachery. This was glory-seeking and usurpation, which amounts to treachery. Remember Jesus's words: "Do not call anyone teacher, or Father, for one is your teacher/father."
Well, it couldn't have been that bad. After all, Jesus tutored Paul PERSONALLY for three years. And granted him a bodily rapture to the third heaven. So lets all consider that Paul had God's stamp of approval shall we? Please?

2Co 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up G726 to the third heaven.
2Co 12:4
How that he was caught up G726 into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. to seize, carry off by force
  2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
  3. to snatch out or away
Strong’s Definitions
ἁρπάζω harpázō, har-pad'-zo; from a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications):—catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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I smell a works salvationist/Judaizer.
Believe it or not, I was not certain at first that he was referring to Paul. So I trolled a little and WOWSER. Yep. It was Paul.

I was thinking he was thinking Calvin at first. Boy what a shock when the reveal pointed to Paul.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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He said that Jesus never taught justification by faith alone apart from the Law. I responded with this:

I think this is the crux of the argument, so let's consider this point.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus was asked the way to the Father and He didn't say, "Keep the law". On the flip side He said that Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So then, according to the law how do you "come unto the father"?

What is this "new and living way" that Hebrews talks about, that is a fulfillment of the law, that aligns with what Jesus said about no one coming unto the Father but by me?

According to the law you can only come unto the Father on the day of atonement, and you can only enter the Holy of Holies if you are the High Priest and you have the atoning blood of the sacrifice. Jesus is telling us that His blood is that sacrifice, He is the High Priest, He is the one that opened the curtain to the Holy of Holies with His death. That is the fulfillment of the law. The blood of Bulls and goats only lasted for a year, and ever since Jesus crucifixion is no longer effective (rabbinical records prove this, after the crucifixion the day of Atonement never resulted in the proof that the sacrifice was accepted).

This is what Paul is telling us, salvation is being able to come unto the Father, there is no way without us receiving the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.

Paul never disparages good works, he always condemns the works of the flesh, but the biggest deceit was that you could be saved by your good works. There is only one way according to the law to be forgiven of sins and that is with the shedding of blood, and the law testifies that the only blood accepted by God to forgive your sins is the blood of Jesus. That is Paul's message and that is also Jesus message.

In conclusion, justification by faith alone is not Paul's idea, it is written in the law clear as day, and Jesus knew it, John the Baptist knew it, and that is why he told us that Jesus was the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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It was never taught by Jesus.
Baby steps, what was never taught by Jesus?

I believe Jesus is the representation of God
Do you believe in the trinity, do you believe Jesus is deity?


and I am seriously beginning to doubt "Christianity" not based on Him. Just because a doctrine is fundamental doesn't make it of Jesus. Other religions have fundamental doctrines that also deviate from Jesus. Apart from Jesus, there is no salvation.
Well you have the last sentence correct. Jesus was pretty straightforward about it, pretty confident about who He was when He said " I am the way, truth and life, no man comes to the Father but by me".


I am not trying to be a troll. I legitimately believe these things, and my beliefs are changing due to my study and experiences.
I don't doubt that you do believe it. But what we believe has to line up with the Word, Jesus just told us, there is no other way. Our experiences don't change the Truth.


And you should know: one major contributing factor to my shifting beliefs is how people treat me. People who follow Jesus more closely tend to treat me nicer than people who advocate for Paul.
Well Paul advocated for Jesus, and his salvation was from night to day. He was murdering Christians one minute and then a Christ follower the next.


1. Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ

A pretty strong statement of support here, Paul counts everything a loss, but it's excrement to him, because he has gained Christ.


2. 1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Paul says Jesus is the foundation!!


3. 2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Jesus is the light of the Gospel and of the world. Paul understood this.



4. Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Jesus is our deliverer Paul says.


5. Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ


Paul said Jesus was the perfect man.


6. Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

He stated that Jesus was the head of the church. No one else.



7. 2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Paul knew that Jesus was the judge of all.



8. Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

And among other things Paul said about Christ, he said He is both the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith;

Reading these things I would say Paul was a pretty big advocate for Jesus.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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In conclusion, justification by faith alone is not Paul's idea, it is written in the law clear as day, and Jesus knew it, John the Baptist knew it, and that is why he told us that Jesus was the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.
Indeed, this concept goes way back to Abram and Genesis 15.
And really........all the way back to Adam and Eve Genesis 3.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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Indeed, this concept goes way back to Abram and Genesis 15.
And really........all the way back to Adam and Eve Genesis 3.
Yes, but his argument is that Jesus never said it.
 

true_believer

Well-known member
Sep 24, 2020
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Or that "Robert Peters" aka Joe Biden guy.

You know......the guy with the dozens of shell companies set up strictly for the purpose of laundering the slush fund $$$ cash $$$ from crooked politicians? The guy with the porn/coke addict son who is on the run for same and also gun violations and IRS crimes?
So what does Biden's son have to do with Trump's wretched character and vile mouth?
 
Sep 15, 2019
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So what does Biden's son have to do with Trump's wretched character and vile mouth?
What's wretched about Trump's character, and vile about his mouth? Are you trying to say that Biden and the host of politicians Trump is calling out are better? If so, lol. If not, please explain.
 
Sep 19, 2023
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You never responded to what I wrote concerning Paul in a thread on talking to Jesus. Instead of judging others, why not focus on judging yourself?
Choosing to not respond is honorable. Responding only to tell someone their words are full of errors but aren't worth your time and instead you are going to pray for them is backhanded. It would have been honorable if he hadn't said anything at all.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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Choosing to not respond is honorable. Responding only to tell someone their words are full of errors but aren't worth your time and instead you are going to pray for them is backhanded. It would have been honorable if he hadn't said anything at all.
You are a judge, you have judged many people on this platform, and the only person you have judged to be honorable is yourself. You are the very thing that you have condemned Paul for. However, even though he said he was a Hebrew of the Hebrews he also said he counted that as dung. I think I would like to see what the final judgement is from Jesus.