Israel Declares War

[ThereRoseaLamb]

You said Israel would win (as God keeps His promises and is still on His throne). But I don't think it will.

Israel sits on 1% of the land in the ME Can someone explain to me why they cannot have a homeland to call their own? Why they need to give up land?! The bottom map is the land Israel has been promised. That is why I say, Israel will win. Because God keeps His promise. Or I believe He does, others may not.

 

[montana123]

ANYWAY, this goes to anybody and everybody: Who do you think will win this current war between Israel and Hamas?

Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Jer 33:14 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
Jer 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

God's covenant is still with Israel the same as it was in the Old Testament.

Nothing has changed.

When a Gentile is saved they are a Jew inward, and part of the commonwealth of Israel, for it all about Israel from Abraham to the New Jerusalem where the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles of the Lamb are written there.

Israel is the Church the Church does not replace Israel.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

God is going to restore the kingdom back to Israel after they have borne their shame for rejecting the truth, and they shall know the LORD their God from that time forward, and He will never hide His face from them again, so Israel as a nation will be in the truth from that time forward, so this is a future prophesy for Israel as a nation is not in the truth.

God said He will bring the whole house of Israel, all 12 tribes, back to Israel and leave none of them in the nations anymore.

When the New Age Christ, antichrist, man of sin, beast, and general all purpose idiot, negotiates peace in the Middle East there will be a 7 years peace, and it will pave the way for all Hebrews to go back to Israel for the Gentiles nations will make it happen, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good for the Hebrews.

None of the Hebrews will be left in the nations, and they will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians.

When the world takes the mark of the beast then the fulness of the Gentiles have come in, and 2 witnesses will be sent to Israel to turn them to the truth, and Israel as a nation will be in the truth.

The world attacks Jerusalem, Hebrews, the battle of Armageddon, and Jesus comes back with the saints and defeats the world, and saves the Jews and the kingdom on Earth is restored to them.

Israel will win this battle, and if they do not they will not be able to take down Israel anyway.

Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

But I believe they will win this world like the won the 6 day war which the main nations were Egypt, Syria, and Jordan, which Israeli fighter pilots paved the way to win the war like birds flying, and they took control of all of Jerusalem.

The whole world could throw all their nuclear weapons at Israel, and all the people of the world could go against Israel to wipe her out, and they would fail because God has the plan to restore the kingdom to Israel.

When the world attacks the Jews half of Jerusalem will be taken which is the Arab side as they run over them to get to the Jews, and then they will be stopped by Jesus.

Israel is never going down for I still see the sun, moon, and stars shining in the sky so God's covenant is still be Israel the same as it was in the Old Testament.

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

 

[Smoke]

I don't disagree with this statement. When you try to compare it to other historical occurrences that aren't the same, that's where we disagree.

Why does it NEED to be the same action in order to understand that sentiments change over time... especially when it comes to crimes against humanity such as indiscriminately killing civilians and racial slavery? Would you be shocked to know that people are way more open and accepting to homosexuality in 2023 in the US than they were back in 1923?

While homosexuality has nothing to do with indiscriminately killing civilians or racial slavery, it's yet another sentiment that has shifted as time has gone on. Surely you don't disagree?

 

[Smoke]

We do not use the word "murder" when describing people who are killed in war. The premise is that the soldiers are fighting to defend their homeland and that is justifiable. Murder generally carries the connotation of a homicide that was not self defense or in some way justifiable.

Right, and killing Japanese civilians wasn't a self-defense move... ThereRoseALamb attempted to make the argument we nuked Japan out of self-defense for them attacking us in Pearl Harbor, but I had to remind her that the attack took place in Dec of 1941 and we nuked them at the end of the war in Aug of 1945. So if we committed homicide (killing civilians) and it wasn't because of self-defense, then how is "murder" a misapplication?

 

[Smoke]

Israel sits on 1% of the land in the ME Can someone explain to me why they cannot have a homeland to call their own? Why they need to give up land?! The bottom map is the land Israel has been promised. That is why I say, Israel will win. Because God keeps His promise. Or I believe He does, others may not.


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I think thew Jews should and ought to have land of their own. Israel is their home. What many people either ignore or are unaware of is that Palestinians had a home in Israel one day, and then became homeless the next day after British handed over Israel to the Jews.

If the Palestinians were smart, they would condemn Hamas and follow Gandhi's strategy. In my opinion, many Palestinians are oppressed by Hamas AND Israel... yet Israel forces them into an open-air prison (Gaza), incapable of leaving to a bordering state and subjected to subhuman living conditions. The Palestinians should not resist Israel violently but broadcast their living conditions they are subjected to to the world... They should SHAME Israel to the point they no longer have an excuse to oppress them. They need to understand that supporting Hamas is supporting a terrorist group, and it takes the focus away from the unfair treatment they have received (in my opinion). The world doesn't know of all the struggles and injustices that the Palestinians have faced... but it's sort of hard to empathized with a group of people who rape and murder innocent men, women, and children. That is where our focus goes to...

 

[Magenta]

beheaded

Beheading is a favoured form of putting to death as is repeatedly and explicitly instructed in the Koran.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Of course God keeps His promises. But you implied God has promised something I don't believe He did. Nowhere does God promise to keep criminal governments in power. But let me know if I've misread my bible, and I will uncross you.

Well the government of Russia and China are pretty criminal and they've been around for a very long time. But that is according to His wisdom. They need to be in place to fight the AC in the last days.


🍧

 

[Smoke]

Correct.

That would depend on the circumstances. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were legitimate military targets. The greatness of the bombs were necessary to end the war and save lives on both sides. The fact that the second one had to be used proved this out.

I don't know what type of revisionist book you got your information from, but it's been estimated from 120,000-230,000 innocent Japanese civilians died from the nuclear attacks. It's in cold blood because we weren't discriminate in attacking the military forces/infrastructure... we used a nuclear bomb that would end lives over a wider area instead of more discriminate precision bombing.

Your insistence that a second atomic bomb "had" to be used is really a matter of opinion. An opinion that is slowly shifting as you know from our other discussion. Nevertheless, finding a "need" to kill civilians in cold blood sets an insanely dangerous precedent for future conflicts.

You also ignored the question and did verbal gymnastics. No one truly believes it "depends on the circumstances" to label the atomic bomb as an indiscriminate bomb. The bomb either discriminately or indiscriminately takes lives... Do you know the definition of "discriminate" and "indiscriminate"? If so, then you would know the presumed necessity to use the bomb to "saves lives and end the war" would not have ANY relevance to the bomb being either discriminate or indiscriminate. The need for a bomb doesn't make a bomb discriminate or indiscriminate in other words. Just as the color someone paints a bomb has no relevance to it being an ideal bomb to discriminately or indiscriminately kill armed forces. "Color" and "need" are irrelevant external factors that do not change the label to "discriminate" or "indiscriminate".

 

[ZNP]

Israel sits on 1% of the land in the ME Can someone explain to me why they cannot have a homeland to call their own? Why they need to give up land?! The bottom map is the land Israel has been promised. That is why I say, Israel will win. Because God keeps His promise. Or I believe He does, others may not.


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Because the Muslim Brotherhood will not receive them into their land and wants to use them as an excuse to fight with Israel.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Israel sits on 1% of the land in the ME Can someone explain to me why they cannot have a homeland to call their own?

Simple. Hatred for Jews. Read the Koran.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Right, and killing Japanese civilians wasn't a self-defense move... ThereRoseALamb attempted to make the argument we nuked Japan out of self-defense for them attacking us in Pearl Harbor, but I had to remind her that the attack took place in Dec of 1941 and we nuked them at the end of the war in Aug of 1945. So if we committed homicide (killing civilians) and it wasn't because of self-defense, then how is "murder" a misapplication?

Do you think Hiroshima would have happened without Pearl Harbor? As was said, two things can be true at once.

 

[NightTwister]

Why does it NEED to be the same action in order to understand that sentiments change over time... especially when it comes to crimes against humanity such as indiscriminately killing civilians and racial slavery? Would you be shocked to know that people are way more open and accepting to homosexuality in 2023 in the US than they were back in 1923?

While homosexuality has nothing to do with indiscriminately killing civilians or racial slavery, it's yet another sentiment that has shifted as time has gone on. Surely you don't disagree?

I've already explained this. I'm not going to do it again.

 

[Smoke]

Do you think Hiroshima would have happened without Pearl Harbor? As was said, two things can be true at once.

We can speculate if we want. I'll answer as objectively as possible. I think the US would have used the bombs regardless of where Japan attacked the US. Heck, even if the US took action against Japan first, I still think we were committed to testing out our new toy.

If we recall, Germany surrendered in May of 1945. The war still continued but everyone knew the end to the war was eminent. The US spent several years creating the two different types of Atomic bombs (one being uranium based and the other being plutonium based).

You might be asking, "Well, if the US was committed to using the bombs regardless of Pearl Harbor happening, why didn't we drop it on the Germans?" The simple answer to that is, we probably would have if we were faster at completing the atomic bombs. We didn't finish creating and testing them until Jul- Aug of 1945, AFTER Germany surrendered. It was our only hope to test our new toys out.

I urge you to not take my word for everything I'm saying. Fact-check the dates and info and if I'm wrong, call me out.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

We can speculate if we want. I'll answer as objectively as possible. I think the US would have used the bombs regardless of where Japan attacked the US. Heck, even if the US took action against Japan first, I still think we were committed to testing out our new toy.

If we recall, Germany surrendered in May of 1945. The war still continued but everyone knew the end to the war was eminent. The US spent several years creating the two different types of Atomic bombs (one being uranium based and the other being plutonium based).

You might be asking, "Well, if the US was committed to using the bombs regardless of Pearl Harbor happening, why didn't we drop it on the Germans?" The simple answer to that is, we probably would have if we were faster at completing the atomic bombs. We didn't finish creating and testing them until Jul- Aug of 1945, AFTER Germany surrendered. It was our only hope to test our new toys out.

I urge you to not take my word for everything I'm saying. Fact-check the dates and info and if I'm wrong, call me out.

No I'm sure your dates are right. As I said I'm not American by birth and that era was my parents time so I have that worldview of that era. So I can't really say one way or the other on it. It's something I will have to look more into.

 

[Dude653]

I've already explained this. I'm not going to do it again.

The fact that gay people aren't committing genocide might have something to do with it

 

[ZNP]

If I was preparing to invade Gaza with door to door combat

1. I would shut off the power, water, fuel and all supplies. It would be my hope that the soldiers would be thirsty and hungry, cold and sick and their ability to rapidly deploy would be limited. How long till these measures begin to bite I don't know, but I suspect Israel does have intelligence to know that.

2. I would be very vocal about bringing in the ground forces. I would want every Hamas soldier to be manning their post, at attention expecting at any time for the invasion.

3. I would mass at the border, bring in tanks and other equipment and every few hours have some new development so they keep primed for an imminent attack.

4. However, I would continue this for about three days. I would want the soldiers delirious from lack of sleep, lack of water, lack of food.

5. When I do enter I simply take one block on one side of Gaza forcing all their forces to run to that zone while I watch from overhead. I then take one block at the other side of Gaza, again watching from overhead as their forces rush to reenforce over there. I would target buildings they are shooting from and bring them down with smart missiles.

6. I would behave slowly and methodically so that all of Hamas learns that ten died, twenty died, 100 died, etc. However, I would keep the pressure up continuously, no opportunity to sleep, no opportunity to be resupplied, no opportunity for a break.

As we can see Israel warns twice to evacuate, the second time they just warn to evacuate from northern half of Gaza, also they drop leaflets on the area. Meanwhile the Hamas forces are trying to keep everyone in the area knowing that if everyone does flee it will be easier and more politically acceptable for Israel to wipe them out. After that they begin minor raids. I suspect this approach has kept Hamas on edged for about 36 hours at the same time that there is no power and no water.

I suspect these raids are being done so that overhead drones and satellites can see the troop movements and identify buildings that Hamas are in to destroy. Slow, and methodical will crush them like an aluminum can.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I think thew Jews should and ought to have land of their own. Israel is their home.
.

Right, they have a 3000 yr history in the land. It is theirs historically and Biblically. They have a right to their home and to defend it and not be butchered and murdered or taken hostage from their own homes. The things that these people have seen in the last several days would doubtless bring memories of the Holocaust. We all agreed never again, and yet here we are. Not one person, let alone a Christian, should stand on the side of terrorists. Because if Hitler was alive today we know who's side he'd be on!!

What many people either ignore or are unaware of is that Palestinians had a home in Israel one day,
.

No, not true. Palestinians are Arabs, there are no such people as Palestinians. This is why history is important and revisionist history is so dangerous. That is why one cannot say "Palestine" is occupied. It isn't, it's not a country and therefore cannot be considered occupied.

and then became homeless the next day after British handed over Israel to the Jews.

From the site Ted shared...

MYTH

Jews stole Arab land.

FACT

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. From the beginning of World War I, however, part of Palestine’s land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus, and Beirut. About 80% of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads, and Bedouins.19

Jews went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap, and—most important—without tenants.

Jews only began to purchase cultivated land after buying all the uncultivated territory. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns...

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness for the British government and offered new plots to any Arabs who had been “dispossessed.” British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80% were ruled invalid by the government’s legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the government land offer.

The Peel Commission’s report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that “much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased…

The Jews paid exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. “In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre.

If the Palestinians were smart, they would condemn Hamas and follow Gandhi's strategy. In my opinion, many Palestinians are oppressed by Hamas AND Israel... yet Israel forces them into an open-air prison (Gaza), incapable of leaving to a bordering state and subjected to subhuman living conditions.
The Palestinians should not resist Israel violently but broadcast their living conditions they are subjected to to the world... They should SHAME Israel to the point they no longer have an excuse to oppress them.

They need to understand that supporting Hamas is supporting a terrorist group, and it takes the focus away from the unfair treatment they have received (in my opinion). The world doesn't know of all the struggles and injustices that the Palestinians have faced... but it's sort of hard to empathized with a group of people who rape and murder innocent men, women, and children. That is where our focus goes to..

The following are 10 facts about Israel. A Huff Post article, long way from conservative.

1.All people living in Israel have full equal rights.

Arabs occupy senior positions on the Israeli police force, the Knesset and the Israeli judiciary. For example, Salim Joubran, who currently serves on the Israeli Supreme Court, is a Christian Arab. South Africans living under apartheid could only dream of obtaining these types of positions.
Ishmael Khaldi, an Islamic Bedouin, is currently a diplomat in the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Majalli Wahabi (Druze) was the acting president of Israel in 2007. These are just a few examples out of the many minority groups holding prominent positions in Israeli society.

2. An Arab judge, George Karra, sentenced an ex-Israeli president Moshe Katsav to prison for seven years.
When an Arab judge sentences a former Israeli president to jail -- this is truly a testament to Israel's equality amongst all citizens, regardless of race or ethnicity.

3. In 1953, the Bantu Education Act was passed.
This separated blacks from whites in the South African educational system.

4. In Israel, citizens are given equal opportunity in the workplace and educational department as evidenced by the fact that there are Palestinians and Arabs in Israeli universities who both study and teach as professors.
Today in Israel there are hundreds of Arab schools.

5. Arabs and Israelis receive the same treatment in hospitals.
The Hadassah Medical Organization which operates two hospitals in Jerusalem, was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize due to its push for peace in the Middle East and its equal treatment of Palestinians and Israelis. Furthermore, Arab and Israeli children are born amongst each other in the same hospitals.
Even during Israeli-Palestinian conflicts, Palestinians receive top-of-the-line treatment in Israeli hospitals. During apartheid, blacks were specifically given limited access to health care.

6. Non-whites in South Africa had separate amenities.
These include hospitals, beaches, buses, restrooms, drinking fountains and even designated park benches to sit on. None of this discrimination is prevalent in Israel and a law prohibits discrimination in public places.

7. Israeli Arabs have their own political parties in the Knesset -- some of whom are Israel's harshest critics.
They received 13 seats in the 2015 Israeli election. Furthermore Arabs have equal voting rights

8. Arabs in Israel have more fundamental rights than other Islamic and Arab countries in the Middle East.
Ironically, they have more rights than they do in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank.


9 In Israel, there are 1.6 million Arab citizens integrated within Israeli society.
They make up 20 per cent of Israel's population. There was no such integration in South Africa. Furthermore, according to a poll done by Harvard University, 77 per cent of Arab citizens living in Israel would rather live there than any other country in the world. If these citizens were experiencing "apartheid," why are so many of them supportive of Israel?

Arabs have the right to move freely, vote, obtain an education, work in prominent positions, receive world-class health care, own land and speak freely.

They need to understand that supporting Hamas is supporting a terrorist group, and it takes the focus away from the unfair treatment they have received (in my opinion). The world doesn't know of all the struggles and injustices that the Palestinians have faced... but it's sort of hard to empathized with a group of people who rape and murder innocent men, women, and children. That is where our focus goes to...[/QUOTE]

 

[HeIsHere]

This post amazes me! It's like the total opposite of the reality of the historical accounts?
Can I ask where you are getting your history from?

Here's a Jewish source:
Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present) (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)

This is what happens when you let John Hagee interpret history for you.

American evangelicals are brainwashed.
There are Jews more honest than this.

 

[HeIsHere]

It is theirs historically and Biblically.

Inaccurate.

The land was given to them as part of back room deals by corrupt politicians with no concern for the inhabitants a the time.

 

[HeIsHere]