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What's sad is how a man who contributed so much to science and individual perseverance can't be appreciated in his death. For someone so wise in the physical world, he did lack spiritual knowledge of our Saviour Jesus Christ. If that is justification for belittling, overlooking, joking, etc... Stephen Hawking, then you're ignoring teachings from the same book Stephen Hawking didn't believe in. Why not celebrate his life and accomplishments instead of "Oh, poor soul is burning in hell now!!"? We get it, some people think he's rotting in hell with Gandhi. Does it make their contribution to the world any less significant? Do I believe everything Hawking said? Absolutely not, but nevertheless, he had a gift from God when it came to understanding many of God's physical laws that I always admired. He was a personal hero of mine...
I'm not even an emotional person, but hearing of his death stung... Of course the uncertainty of his afterlife causes me more grief. Here is the thing we all need to remember though: WE ARE NOT GOD. WE ARE INCAPABLE OF JUDGING PERFECTLY. I get it... some of you feel SO convicted in your human understanding of God's word that you feel compelled and at liberty to doom someone to eternal hellfire. Cool, this is the internet, where we all feel like our opinions really matter and need to be heard. What I think is disgusting is when someone claims someone who disagrees with them goes against God and the bible, claiming to "only be going off what the bible says". IT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE... to someone else, they interpret it ENTIRELY differently. It's such a copout and a strawman argument to make that because someone disagrees with your interpretation of the bible, that the other person "throws it out" or "doesn't believe in the bible". Make all the claims about your super duper important beliefs and opinions... don't tell someone else that disagrees with you that they are an anti-christ, that they ignore parts of the bible, or any other personal judgement for disagreeing with your interpretation... you don't know the person's heart and even if you did, are incapable of judging perfectly like our Heavenly Father.
It seems many people on here crave or desire the power to cast someone to hell. I am UTTERLY THANKFUL to God that I am not assigned the responsibility to judge someone's eternity. I know I can't do it perfectly... nor do I WANT to do it. It takes a pretty mentally sick person to want this type of power knowing you're imperfect. God is perfect, our understanding of His teachings/doctrine is NOT.
Having said this, thank you Stephen Hawking for everything you've done for the world and for me personally. You're the reason why I chose one of my majors... In every video where God/creationism was brought up, you showed how to disagree with people (Christians) but do so civilly and respectfully saying why you disagree. You emulated Christlike behavior, yet you didn't even believe in Christ... and in that sense, I thank you for showing me how to act more Christlike.
I'm not even an emotional person, but hearing of his death stung... Of course the uncertainty of his afterlife causes me more grief. Here is the thing we all need to remember though: WE ARE NOT GOD. WE ARE INCAPABLE OF JUDGING PERFECTLY. I get it... some of you feel SO convicted in your human understanding of God's word that you feel compelled and at liberty to doom someone to eternal hellfire. Cool, this is the internet, where we all feel like our opinions really matter and need to be heard. What I think is disgusting is when someone claims someone who disagrees with them goes against God and the bible, claiming to "only be going off what the bible says". IT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE... to someone else, they interpret it ENTIRELY differently. It's such a copout and a strawman argument to make that because someone disagrees with your interpretation of the bible, that the other person "throws it out" or "doesn't believe in the bible". Make all the claims about your super duper important beliefs and opinions... don't tell someone else that disagrees with you that they are an anti-christ, that they ignore parts of the bible, or any other personal judgement for disagreeing with your interpretation... you don't know the person's heart and even if you did, are incapable of judging perfectly like our Heavenly Father.
It seems many people on here crave or desire the power to cast someone to hell. I am UTTERLY THANKFUL to God that I am not assigned the responsibility to judge someone's eternity. I know I can't do it perfectly... nor do I WANT to do it. It takes a pretty mentally sick person to want this type of power knowing you're imperfect. God is perfect, our understanding of His teachings/doctrine is NOT.
Having said this, thank you Stephen Hawking for everything you've done for the world and for me personally. You're the reason why I chose one of my majors... In every video where God/creationism was brought up, you showed how to disagree with people (Christians) but do so civilly and respectfully saying why you disagree. You emulated Christlike behavior, yet you didn't even believe in Christ... and in that sense, I thank you for showing me how to act more Christlike.
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Yet Scripture denies your false gospel. It isn't "the same gospel" as you say, it's another gospel which is false and damnable, Galatians 1:8-10.
Part of your issue is you believe others, yourself, but not God's revelation. The carnal mind is hostile toward God, and is at enmity with him, and hates the true Gospel. You are at enmity with God's truth, and have sought to make up your own truth, then you gather others around you to bolster your false doctrine and position. This was Paul's point in 2 Timothy 4:1-5&c; he described perfectly those as yourself who will not endure sound doctrine.
There are none who are good. You say they are good, yet God says none are good, Romans 3:10ff, and that they are by nature under wrath, Ephesians 2:3. It will not fare well for you nor any others to stand before God and declare your own goodness.
The bottom line is you believe you're good, are doing the works of God, following Christ, earning your way into heaven. May God open your eyes to the truth of the Gospel.
Part of your issue is you believe others, yourself, but not God's revelation. The carnal mind is hostile toward God, and is at enmity with him, and hates the true Gospel. You are at enmity with God's truth, and have sought to make up your own truth, then you gather others around you to bolster your false doctrine and position. This was Paul's point in 2 Timothy 4:1-5&c; he described perfectly those as yourself who will not endure sound doctrine.
There are none who are good. You say they are good, yet God says none are good, Romans 3:10ff, and that they are by nature under wrath, Ephesians 2:3. It will not fare well for you nor any others to stand before God and declare your own goodness.
The bottom line is you believe you're good, are doing the works of God, following Christ, earning your way into heaven. May God open your eyes to the truth of the Gospel.
The bottom line is you believe you're good, are doing the works of God, following Christ, earning your way into heaven. May God open your eyes to the truth of the Gospel.[/QUOTE]
Not about earning anything. Read Sermon on the Mount. If Jesus did not want us to do more than believe, why in the world did he preach for 3 1/2 years about how we are to love our neighbours? Why? If believing the right thing is all that is needed? Yep, I do believe that being a good person (very hard to do when compared to Jesus) is THE single MOST important thing coupled with LOVING MY NEIGHBOUR ... all of my neighbours, not just the ones I like. So that includes loving all people of all religions, races, ethinic backgrounds and it even includes loving people who are not good and who do evil. That is the REAL challenge.
[h=1]James 2:14-26 King James Version (KJV)[/h][SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
King James Version (KJV)
Not about earning anything. Read Sermon on the Mount. If Jesus did not want us to do more than believe, why in the world did he preach for 3 1/2 years about how we are to love our neighbours? Why? If believing the right thing is all that is needed? Yep, I do believe that being a good person (very hard to do when compared to Jesus) is THE single MOST important thing coupled with LOVING MY NEIGHBOUR ... all of my neighbours, not just the ones I like. So that includes loving all people of all religions, races, ethinic backgrounds and it even includes loving people who are not good and who do evil. That is the REAL challenge.
[h=1]James 2:14-26 King James Version (KJV)[/h][SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
King James Version (KJV)
I'm not sure who you're judging here as condemning Hawkings to hell, but will ask this: Do you believe the Gospel is up for grabs, subjective, and there is no matter in how a person interprets it, they can view it however they want and still "go to heaven when they die" because you judge them worthy in your own subjective mindset?
This is the synopsis of what you're doing, declaring it is OK for all these things, setting yourself up in so doing as an authority of their eternal state, based upon how you feel, what you think, and not on Scripture.
Just wanted to unpack what you're really teaching here. It sounds so "good" to those who aren't very discerning.
This is the synopsis of what you're doing, declaring it is OK for all these things, setting yourself up in so doing as an authority of their eternal state, based upon how you feel, what you think, and not on Scripture.
Just wanted to unpack what you're really teaching here. It sounds so "good" to those who aren't very discerning.
God is not subjective. When He says something is right, it's right. When he says something is wrong, it's wrong. However, because humans are not perfect like God, we read things and take away a different meaning than someone else who reads the same exact thing. Because the bible has been translated, in addition to language changing and evolving over time, the bible isn't as explicitly black or white to someone.
Do you ever wonder why there are so many different Christian denominations who all claim in believing the same book? God and morals are no subjective, but the way HUMANS interpret information is not explicit. Somethings are explicit to ME personally, but not to someone else (and vice versa). For this reason, Christians don't agree on the way someone else interprets scripture and thus, a new denomination is formed. Take baptism for example. Some Christians think you MUST be baptized or you will not go to Heaven. Others think it's symbolic and not necessary for salvation. Don't they read the same book? Explicitly, the bible states Christ was baptized, but some people interpret it as mandatory and others as optional.
As for what you think I'm saying in the whole "it's okay for all these things". Your discerning needs more work because the only declaration I made is not to tell someone who believes/interprets scripture differently than you that they are the antichrist or ignore the bible when really they just take away something differently than you. Even if they are in error, it's quite a personal judgement to make of someone you do not even know personally, fully knowing we are imperfect judges as well. Sometimes we have the absolute best of intentions but are wrong... it doesn't mean their heart was deceitful, it just means they were mistaken. "Deceit" and "mistaken" are not synonymous.
Do you ever wonder why there are so many different Christian denominations who all claim in believing the same book? God and morals are no subjective, but the way HUMANS interpret information is not explicit. Somethings are explicit to ME personally, but not to someone else (and vice versa). For this reason, Christians don't agree on the way someone else interprets scripture and thus, a new denomination is formed. Take baptism for example. Some Christians think you MUST be baptized or you will not go to Heaven. Others think it's symbolic and not necessary for salvation. Don't they read the same book? Explicitly, the bible states Christ was baptized, but some people interpret it as mandatory and others as optional.
As for what you think I'm saying in the whole "it's okay for all these things". Your discerning needs more work because the only declaration I made is not to tell someone who believes/interprets scripture differently than you that they are the antichrist or ignore the bible when really they just take away something differently than you. Even if they are in error, it's quite a personal judgement to make of someone you do not even know personally, fully knowing we are imperfect judges as well. Sometimes we have the absolute best of intentions but are wrong... it doesn't mean their heart was deceitful, it just means they were mistaken. "Deceit" and "mistaken" are not synonymous.
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K
I understand you are young,I expect you to just repeat talking points you've heard from others.And Im not trying to be insulting.The things you are posting here show you have not read the Bible closely and that you know little of Biblical history or history in general.That is why you have so many people correcting your posts.
You are correct in that Christ died for all people,but not all accept Him. And you must accept him to go to heaven.This is not an evangelical belief,its right there in the Bible.There is no other name by which a person can be saved,no other path.Now those are Gods words,not mine,not the evangelical church.
People of other religions can be good,certainly,atheists can be good,wonderful people.But again you misunderstand the Bible. Being good doesn't get us to heaven,because we can't be good enough to merit salvation.That is why animals were sacrificed in the OT,the blood covered sin. The difference in the NT is that Christ washes away our sin. Its all about Him.We are not good,and we can even be good enough before God. People in different faiths cannot love God because they don't know Him. The Catholic church does not teach that all faiths can go to heaven.Shoot,they don't even believe people outside the Catholic church are going to heaven! Jews also do not believe all faiths go to heaven,the majority of Jews don't believe in Christ and are still waiting for their Messiah. Muslims certainly don't believe all faiths go to heaven!! If you leave their faith,they murder you. So you are wrong on all counts there.
Living Jesus words,while good,is not how to be saved. Trusting in His shed blood,accepting Him into your heart and repenting of sin is how to be saved. And how can you live His words if the Bible is corrupted anyway? The Gospel is the Word of God,the Bible,and there is no other way,no other faith.Not the Koran,not the Pearl of Great Price,not the Hindu texts. No other way,period.
D
Don't you read your own posts?
These theories.
Originally Posted by Susanna
He has also given us a free will so that anyone can feel free to make mistakes when copying the Bible...by accident or not...so I believe corrupted Bibles are a fact.
Don't you read other posts? Because I already gave the facts for the Bible isn't corrupted.
These theories.
He has also given us a free will so that anyone can feel free to make mistakes when copying the Bible...by accident or not...so I believe corrupted Bibles are a fact.
Don't you read other posts? Because I already gave the facts for the Bible isn't corrupted.
D
Actually, you're wrong there too. True Christians don't believe as you do. Sure, some people raised in a "Christian" family do, but ethnic background doesn't determined election. You have all the earmarks of thinking you're a Christian just because you think you know what God said. Kind of like thinking I'm a ship because I can float in the water.
YOU CAN'T LIVE HIS WORDS WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW HIS WORDS!
YOU CAN'T LIVE HIS WORDS WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW HIS WORDS!
K
First off I want to start by saying I understand how you feel. I really admired Princess Diana,maybe even more so because I was Canadian and they were our monarchy. When she died so tragically the whole country was stunned,the whole world. At that time I was in ministry and when we stood on the stage that Sunday morning it was clear everyone in that crowd was stunned and grieving.Such a beautiful young woman taken so early leaving children behind.Several years later I lost my aunt at the age of 43 to cancer,she also left behind children.Now she was a christian,but it reminded me again of how Diana was taken so young. I understand grief,whether for someone you admire or a family member.
Did Dianna go to heaven? I hope so. I can't know s
nly God truly knows.But the Bible does say that by their fruits will know them. Our life must show that we are saved. We cannot say that anyone popular who dies "might" have been saved even when ,like Hawking,they live opposite to God and say they don't believe in Him.As Christians we cannot hold with that. I know that you want him in heaven,the same as I wanted Diana in heaven. But their lives showed otherwise. And that is so sad.I understand that feeling.But we can't change Gods word and put people in heaven that live contrary to the Bible. All that being said I spoke to a missionary from Venezuela about Hugo Chavez. He was an evil man and lived a life totally apart from God. I can't recall the whole story but basically when he was a young man a preacher was able to speak to him and witness to him. When he died years later that same preacher came to see him and he was the only person Chavez allowed to go in. The missionary said "we cannot know for sure but Chavez may have accepted Christ at his death." I was stunned.Chavez,in heaven?! So I agree we need to be careful because we don't truly know where Hawking is,but on the other side of the coin we can't put people in heaven because we personally want them to be there.The big lesson in it all is that we need to pray for the lost like never before.
S
Don't you read your own posts?
These theories.
Originally Posted by Susanna
He has also given us a free will so that anyone can feel free to make mistakes when copying the Bible...by accident or not...so I believe corrupted Bibles are a fact.
Don't you read other posts? Because I already gave the facts for the Bible isn't corrupted.
These theories.
He has also given us a free will so that anyone can feel free to make mistakes when copying the Bible...by accident or not...so I believe corrupted Bibles are a fact.
Don't you read other posts? Because I already gave the facts for the Bible isn't corrupted.
I haven't said the Bible is corrupted.
Are you saying the Lord didn't give us a free will?
Many Christians are wrong also. We have been handed the heaven or hell theology by tradition, for so long, that Christians read right over the real truths without a second thought. It shows God trying to save as many people as He can without success. My God is more powerful than that; He doesn't try anything.
Who are you to condemn anyone to hellfire forever. Jesus said "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Many of we Christians do not support you version of trinity or of eternal torment for unrepentant sinners. Your Bible interpretations suffer from the traditions of men.
Antichrist that got into the first and second century churches and substituted the false doctrine. 2 Cor. 11:14: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
Who are you to condemn anyone to hellfire forever. Jesus said "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Many of we Christians do not support you version of trinity or of eternal torment for unrepentant sinners. Your Bible interpretations suffer from the traditions of men.
Antichrist that got into the first and second century churches and substituted the false doctrine. 2 Cor. 11:14: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
Gabriel, I do not deny the Holy Ghost. I reject the label that traditional Christianity has imposed on it. I believe our Heavenly Father is one entity, Jesus Christ, His son, is an entity separate but united with the Father. The Holy Spirit is what make the Godhead (Father and Son) God. Can your mind really comprehend the Holy Spirit?
Everything you have seen has a beginning and an end. Can your imagination grasp being everywhere at once, sustaining all creation? If you can grasp all that, you have a lot bigger mind and imagination than I.
Everything you have seen has a beginning and an end. Can your imagination grasp being everywhere at once, sustaining all creation? If you can grasp all that, you have a lot bigger mind and imagination than I.
K
Many Christians are wrong also. We have been handed the heaven or hell theology by tradition, for so long, that Christians read right over the real truths without a second thought. It shows God trying to save as many people as He can without success. My God is more powerful than that; He doesn't try anything.
Who are you to condemn anyone to hellfire forever. Jesus said "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Many of we Christians do not support you version of trinity or of eternal torment for unrepentant sinners. Your Bible interpretations suffer from the traditions of men.
Antichrist that got into the first and second century churches and substituted the false doctrine. 2 Cor. 11:14: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
Who are you to condemn anyone to hellfire forever. Jesus said "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Many of we Christians do not support you version of trinity or of eternal torment for unrepentant sinners. Your Bible interpretations suffer from the traditions of men.
Antichrist that got into the first and second century churches and substituted the false doctrine. 2 Cor. 11:14: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
It doesn't matter what some Christians believe. It matters what the Bible says.
There are two descriptions of hell in the Bible. One is of a burning fire. Jesus often used the word GEHENNA to describe hell. Gehenna was the refuse dump outside Jerusalem that was always on fire. Jesus said hell was a place of worms, maggots, fire, and trouble. From that we get the image of a lake of fire and the concept of perpetual burning. The evil ones there are full of remorse and torment
Mark 9- 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Jesus also said that hell would be "outer darkness." He said that some in His day "will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth"
Matt. 22-13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
Here the image is one of terrible loneliness. There will be separation from God and man. Those who are consigned to hell will be put out into the inky blackness of eternity, with nobody to turn to, nobody to talk to, and they will be constantly alone. They will suffer the remorse of knowing they had the opportunity to come into heaven with God but turned it down.
http://www1.cbn.com/questions/hell-real-place
If you call yourself a Christian and tell people there is no hell you are lying to them and you are putting their soul in serious danger. I don't care what you want to name this place,the Bible says there is a place of eternal punishment. If you are not telling the lost about this you are a liar and their blood will be on your hands.
Read beyond just one post. I also said it's important for us to read the Bible. If we don't, we end up following another Jim Jones. Going back to the sermon, though, aren't you staying because you like the service? We could easily go before service to fellowship, stay for worship, then leave before the sermon starts and read the Bible on our own. Why stay and listen to the pastor? Why go for pre marital counseling, marriage issues, and personsl issues? Anyone can be in that position of a pastor, after all.
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