The politics of Gay rights.

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Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
3,102
105
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#41
The general Narrative of right-wingers and Christian fundamentalist is that they should not have any constitutional rights
From a right-wing Christian Fundamentalist. Everyone in this country has the same constitutional rights. Gay marriage is as wrong as any other sin, and no Christian should support it. It is, however, SCOTUS settled law, and as such, although we don't believe it is blessed or allowed by God, we do not deny gays their right to marry.

We do, however, believe that we have the right to refuse to perform a gay wedding ceremony. We will know by the end of this SCOTUS session whether that is settled law. If SCOTUS decides that we can not refuse to marry a gay couple, or create a gay image for anyone, there will be a lot of us in jail because they refuse to do so. Either way SCOTUS rules, it will become settled law. You can rest assured that, if it is settled our way, the courts will be clogged with lawsuits against every Christian who exercises his right.

Christians have the right, and responsibility to speak up against laws that force them to take actions against God. Neither side has the right to destroy the property of others when they disagree with law.

Instead of berating Christians for objecting to laws they disagree with, take some time and listen to what is being said. We aren't denying anyone their rights, but we are saying that what they think is a right, is actually a wrong.
 

Lighthearted

Senior Member
Oct 17, 2016
1,017
74
48
#42
You all have heard me tell you that my daughter is gay. My job is to love her because I'm her mother. Bottom line. The rest of this issue is a mess only God Almighty is ever going to fix to His satisfaction. A battle like ALL, that He has already won.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
534
113
#43
Are you sure we are all in agreement? We may have people who call themselves Christian, that divorced for reasons other than adultery, and married someone else.

I'm pretty sure most everyone would be in agreement that adultery is morally wrong.

I don't not think that magically stops all christians from engaging in it.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
534
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#44
Are you sure we are all in agreement? We may have people who call themselves Christian, that divorced for reasons other than adultery, and married someone else.

I also think this is an odd response.


As soon as I disagreed with you about a thing,
your first move was to redefine that thing with a a very controversial, non-standard definition, to give yourself a new edge in the argument...

meaning you probably knew you couldn't defend your original position.


Tommy,
I like you just fine,
but if you want to state propositions as if they're absolute facts,
then you should expect someone to challenge you on them.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
312
34
28
#45
I don't believe that marriage is only a Christian practice. If two gay people wish to get married hew is that an offense to Christians? Media that portray gay people in normal society is doing just that showing a segment of society. Why is that offensive? Elton John has been popular for 40 years, its no secret he is gay . I don't see any need to run for cover when we hear a song on the radio. Should we?
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
4,869
398
83
#46
Imagine a couple who has been together for years and one of them passes. Marriage gives the the surviving spouse legal right to all the assets they built together. Same-sex couples should have that same right
They can (and always have been) able do that without marriage, just the same as anyone else. I can (if I chose) assign my assets to whomever I choose via a will or trust. I can assign medical and end of life decisions to whomever I choose via simple legal documents.

Some crackpots have left their entire estate to their pets rather than their children.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
1,983
343
83
South Australia
adelaiderevival.com
#47
But thankfully my church doesn't ban homosexuals any more than they ban smokers, alcoholics, drug abusers, or adulterers or any other sinners.
Yes, we welcome in sinners and unbelievers with joy.
Then we share the gospel of salvation with them, and preach how they can
be born new through repentance from dead works followed by water and
Holy Spirit baptism.
A new life, and becoming a new person in Christ Jesus by the power of the
indwelling Holy Spirit.

But the unsaved will never come to repentance and seek salvation if they do
not recognize or admit to their sinful nature.
The gospel is not about people remaining in their sins but dying to sin and
then living to righteousness through the Holy Spirit.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
7,870
82
48
#48
Dude,

You're creating a straw man argument; that is NOT the general narrative of right-wing Christians.

The general narrative of right-wing Christians is:
homosexuals should have the SAME CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AS EVERYONE ELSE, and they should NOT HAVE "SPECIAL RIGHTS" AS A PROTECTED MINORITY.



This is such an emotionally charged, hot-button topic that I'm just tired of even talking about it.
The Narrative are here for most Christians is that allowing same-sex couples to marry if somehow taking something away from Christians or it's a threat to the sanctity of marriage. Marriage actually predates Christianity so if you're going to use this argument then you have to disallow atheist from getting married as well..
The argument that same-sex marriage is somehow a threat to my marriage is just not a valid argument.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
534
113
#49
Dude,

Although I fully support your right to state your thoughts, and be upset...
I still think you''re mischaracterizing your opposition's view.

And just now, you specifically shifted our little conversation from "gay rights" as a GENERAL ISSUE to "gay marriage" which is a SPECIFIC ISSUE. Two things which are different are not the same. This mean you moved the goal post right in the middle of our conversation.

So if you feel my response was incorrect regarding gay marriage, that's because you and I WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE, we were talking about the much broader issue of gay rights in general.



Now, I think you're a nice guy, and I'm just gong to assume you've been distracted today, and didn't realize you were sort of switching the topic, and that it wasn't intentional.

Please stay focused so we can fight properly, lol.
:)
 

Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,432
413
83
#51
I also think this is an odd response.


As soon as I disagreed with you about a thing,
your first move was to redefine that thing with a a very controversial, non-standard definition, to give yourself a new edge in the argument...

meaning you probably knew you couldn't defend your original position.


Tommy,
I like you just fine,
but if you want to state propositions as if they're absolute facts,
then you should expect someone to challenge you on them.
Maxwel, I love you, but your eye may have betrayed you.

It is not settled among Christians, that adultery is wrong.

We have people who call themselves Christian, and may well be, that have divorced for reasons other than adultery. Many of these people who have divorced, have gone on to marry someone else. I can remember encountering many on this site, and every minister I have known, will perform these weddings.

These Christians and ministers either:
Believe Jesus was lying or the bible is wrong about divorce and marriage to another, or
Adultery is ok.

This may be an argument for another thread, but I don't think it's universally accepted.
 

Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,432
413
83
#52
The homo marriage argument could be settled by repealing all marriage laws.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
534
113
#54
Maxwel, I love you, but your eye may have betrayed you.

It is not settled among Christians, that adultery is wrong.

We have people who call themselves Christian, and may well be, that have divorced for reasons other than adultery. Many of these people who have divorced, have gone on to marry someone else. I can remember encountering many on this site, and every minister I have known, will perform these weddings.

These Christians and ministers either:
Believe Jesus was lying or the bible is wrong about divorce and marriage to another, or
Adultery is ok.

This may be an argument for another thread, but I don't think it's universally accepted.

Tommy,
this is a very interesting response,
and it may contain some valid points,
but it doesn't specifically rebut any of my propositions in post #44.

And are you making fun of my eye?

What's up with that?

A lot of women go for the cyclops look... it's very trendy in some places.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
7,870
82
48
#55
Dude,

Although I fully support your right to state your thoughts, and be upset...
I still think you''re mischaracterizing your opposition's view.

And just now, you specifically shifted our little conversation from "gay rights" as a GENERAL ISSUE to "gay marriage" which is a SPECIFIC ISSUE. Two things which are different are not the same. This mean you moved the goal post right in the middle of our conversation.

So if you feel my response was incorrect regarding gay marriage, that's because you and I WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE, we were talking about the much broader issue of gay rights in general.



Now, I think you're a nice guy, and I'm just gong to assume you've been distracted today, and didn't realize you were sort of switching the topic, and that it wasn't intentional.

Please stay focused so we can fight properly, lol.
:)
Exactly what rights are we referring to here?
I don't think any demographic of people should have anymore or any fewer rights than any other.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
534
113
#56
Exactly what rights are we referring to here?
I don't think any demographic of people should have anymore or any fewer rights than any other.
Dude, my friend, please check your PMs.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
7,870
82
48
#57
I don't believe that marriage is only a Christian practice. If two gay people wish to get married hew is that an offense to Christians? Media that portray gay people in normal society is doing just that showing a segment of society. Why is that offensive? Elton John has been popular for 40 years, its no secret he is gay . I don't see any need to run for cover when we hear a song on the radio. Should we?
Honestly I don't understand why most Christians are so threatened about homosexuality. You know why I'm not threatened by homosexuality? Because I know I'm not gay.
To be honest I feel more threatened ny militant Christians who can't seem to comprehend the fact that not everyone thinks like them and not everyone is interested in the Bible or Christianity. That's the same mentality that breeds terrorists
 

AuntieAnt

Senior Member
Feb 23, 2016
3,908
335
83
#58
It is understandable that most Christians think that homosexuality is wrong according to the scriptures. However, homosexual people do exist in great numbers in this country. Do they have rights that should be protected?
I know our flesh impulsively labels people into catagories, but the Lord tells us not to judge according to the flesh anymore. No flesh is justifed in God's sight, not even those we think are acceptable. So in Christ, all men and women are equal and should have equal rights.
 

Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,432
413
83
#59
Tommy,
this is a very interesting response,
and it may contain some valid points,
but it doesn't specifically rebut any of my propositions in post #44.

And are you making fun of my eye?

What's up with that?

A lot of women go for the cyclops look... it's very trendy in some places.
The only thing I can spot on post 44 that I didn't address is; I don't mind being challenged, I'm not a douche bag.

I've been making thinly veiled sexual advances at women on this site for two years, all I had to do was poke an eye out.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
534
113
#60
The only thing I can spot on post 44 that I didn't address is; I don't mind being challenged, I'm not a douche bag.

I've been making thinly veiled sexual advances at women on this site for two years, all I had to do was poke an eye out.

This thread is about gay rights....

are we allowed to talk about making heterosexual advances toward women?



And ... no... you did not address all my issues, lol.