The Predicted Coronavirus Catastrophe Hasn’t Arrived In Sweden. What’s Next? -Forbes-

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EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
9,495
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#21
It's completed when we're dead. I'm not so sure I'm interested in it completing.
I can tell you one thing the effects of the lock down are only beginning to show in the numbers... it can take more than three weeks for deaths to be entered into the system. ....so the numbers dead reflect for many several weeks back and are definitely not yesterday.
 

acts5_29

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
327
88
28
#22
But Sweden is further ahead of us in the curve.
 

acts5_29

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
327
88
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#24
Western Europe got the virus before North America did. It spread to New York from Europe. Sweden's been at this longer than North America, they didn't lock down, and the mass apocalypse didn't happen. Not sure how much "more time" you need, but I've heard similar requests for more time from preachers who date-set the end of the world--which didn't happen, then they wanted more time, because they "miscalculated".
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
9,495
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#25
https://www.forbes.com/sites/gabrie...xIj_nTfHozh2konsiTkUY1t59o3dHE6Q#44ad73473caf

As those paying attention already know, Sweden opted not to bring in harsh isolation and lockdown measures like the most of the world. Despite warnings from the Imperial College of London that a country the size of Sweden, (population appx 10.1 million) could expect around 60,000 deaths without mitigation efforts and ~30,000 with mitigation, this freedom loving Scandanavian democracy decided against the measures invoked in almost every other nation.

They didn't do nothing, they closed schools for students aged 16+, keeping elementary schools open because obviously workers need their kids looked after during the day. They also banned gatherings of 50+ and required all bar and restaraunt patrons to be seated, while urging (but not requiring) vulnerable people to isolate.

The death toll has been higher than neigbouring Scandinavian countries, but less than hotspots like Italy and Spain. Sweden's death count stands (as I write this) at about 2,400 and its overwhelmingly among the elderly and health compromised, like everywhere else in the world.

There have been criticisms that they could have done more to protect the elderly, a concern we've seen here in Canada where much harsher lockdown rules were brought in. 2,400 deaths so far is obviously tragic, death is never anything but, however its nowhere near the levels the Imperial College's model suggested.


x
You might want to check the data on this .. herd immunity stands 7.3% ... they need to 70 %

The study was carried out by Sweden's Health Agency
 
Aug 10, 2019
522
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Canada
#26
You might want to check the data on this .. herd immunity stands 7.3% ... they need to 70 %

The study was carried out by Sweden's Health Agency
Thanks, I saw it in a new story already. Tengall (I think that's how its spelled) Sweden's top epidemiologist and architect of their response has never said that herd immunity was the goal of their strategy, although he has said that he was hoping it would be a secondary benefit....and at some point it may be, but not for a long long time, like 18 months from now or more.

My views are evolving, probably like a lot of people. While I liked Sweden's response, bringing in measures that can be sustained over the long term, their health care system is much more robust and had excess capacity to deal with a surge. In Canada our health care system is already over capacity a lot of the time, without added Covid cases....'hallway medicine' was a recent campaign issue, there's just no room for us to deal with a pandemic. And given the predictions of critical care space being exceeded something like 8x over....I get it, we had to do something....even if only short term.

But, (there's always a but) we can't keep this up. 3+ million Canadians are out of work and $2,000 p/mth in government welfare isn't going to cut it for people in cities like Toronto where housing costs are huge....even a couple getting $4K total, that's not enough to pay mortgage/rent along with groceries utilities and everything else.....

Me, I'm in a lifeboat....I'm still working and getting my full salary, so I'm lucky, too many people aren't as fortunate.

And Sweden isn't going to escape the economic pain of lockdown measures either, the global economy is tanking and their economy isn't going to immune from the pending rececssion/depression.
 

Robertt

Active member
May 22, 2019
203
96
28
Bahrain
#27
Sweden is number 8 for deaths per million , I not sure it is a country we need to follow an exsmple of.

choose other countrys

NE Zealand. Austalia or others with less than 10 per million

So please take care people.

Wear masks so you don't spread it.

Keep distance so you don't catch it

Wash hands after touching anything that may have been coughed or sneezed on.

Gloves are useless.
 
Aug 10, 2019
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Canada
#28
While we have numbers for Covid related deaths, such as they are....I have little doubt there is both over and under reporting going on among various jurisdictions, but at least we have some benchmarks.

But I don't see any reports on things like domestic abuse or violence, or suicides. On Easter Monday I spoke to 3 law enforcement officers and one told me that just within the past week he'd investigated 5 suicides....but it can take months and possibly a year or more before an official cause of death is determined.....of course cops typically know right away, but its not official.
 

Robertt

Active member
May 22, 2019
203
96
28
Bahrain
#29
While we have numbers for Covid related deaths, such as they are....I have little doubt there is both over and under reporting going on among various jurisdictions, but at least we have some benchmarks.

But I don't see any reports on things like domestic abuse or violence, or suicides. On Easter Monday I spoke to 3 law enforcement officers and one told me that just within the past week he'd investigated 5 suicides....but it can take months and possibly a year or more before an official cause of death is determined.....of course cops typically know right away, but its not official.
ok masybe not reporting more in your area,

In Australia, no increased suicides or domestic violence,

same rate as all previous years.

Crime is lower than ever, less people dieing from car acddients, Heart attacks are down,
 

Robertt

Active member
May 22, 2019
203
96
28
Bahrain
#30
As a wise man said
There are lies, and there are statistics, but both become fact on Facebook and CNN, Fox ..
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
9,495
9,707
113
#31
Thanks, I saw it in a new story already. Tengall (I think that's how its spelled) Sweden's top epidemiologist and architect of their response has never said that herd immunity was the goal of their strategy, although he has said that he was hoping it would be a secondary benefit....and at some point it may be, but not for a long long time, like 18 months from now or more.

My views are evolving, probably like a lot of people. While I liked Sweden's response, bringing in measures that can be sustained over the long term, their health care system is much more robust and had excess capacity to deal with a surge. In Canada our health care system is already over capacity a lot of the time, without added Covid cases....'hallway medicine' was a recent campaign issue, there's just no room for us to deal with a pandemic. And given the predictions of critical care space being exceeded something like 8x over....I get it, we had to do something....even if only short term.

But, (there's always a but) we can't keep this up. 3+ million Canadians are out of work and $2,000 p/mth in government welfare isn't going to cut it for people in cities like Toronto where housing costs are huge....even a couple getting $4K total, that's not enough to pay mortgage/rent along with groceries utilities and everything else.....

Me, I'm in a lifeboat....I'm still working and getting my full salary, so I'm lucky, too many people aren't as fortunate.

And Sweden isn't going to escape the economic pain of lockdown measures either, the global economy is tanking and their economy isn't going to immune from the pending rececssion/depression.
Lockdown or no lockdown the economy is going to suffer that point is indisputable.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
9,495
9,707
113
#32
Thanks, I saw it in a new story already. Tengall (I think that's how its spelled) Sweden's top epidemiologist and architect of their response has never said that herd immunity was the goal of their strategy, although he has said that he was hoping it would be a secondary benefit....and at some point it may be, but not for a long long time, like 18 months from now or more.

My views are evolving, probably like a lot of people. While I liked Sweden's response, bringing in measures that can be sustained over the long term, their health care system is much more robust and had excess capacity to deal with a surge. In Canada our health care system is already over capacity a lot of the time, without added Covid cases....'hallway medicine' was a recent campaign issue, there's just no room for us to deal with a pandemic. And given the predictions of critical care space being exceeded something like 8x over....I get it, we had to do something....even if only short term.

But, (there's always a but) we can't keep this up. 3+ million Canadians are out of work and $2,000 p/mth in government welfare isn't going to cut it for people in cities like Toronto where housing costs are huge....even a couple getting $4K total, that's not enough to pay mortgage/rent along with groceries utilities and everything else.....

Me, I'm in a lifeboat....I'm still working and getting my full salary, so I'm lucky, too many people aren't as fortunate.

And Sweden isn't going to escape the economic pain of lockdown measures either, the global economy is tanking and their economy isn't going to immune from the pending rececssion/depression.
Overly driven consumer economies and not productivity economies is the problem...not the virus.

In 1918 the economy managed much better.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
9,495
9,707
113
#33
While we have numbers for Covid related deaths, such as they are....I have little doubt there is both over and under reporting going on among various jurisdictions, but at least we have some benchmarks.

But I don't see any reports on things like domestic abuse or violence, or suicides. On Easter Monday I spoke to 3 law enforcement officers and one told me that just within the past week he'd investigated 5 suicides....but it can take months and possibly a year or more before an official cause of death is determined.....of course cops typically know right away, but its not official.
The only comparison that can be made for mental health problems will be to compare next year to this year.
I talked to a psychologist and she said that mental health challenges most likely existed prior to the outbreak.
 
Aug 10, 2019
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Canada
#34
The only comparison that can be made for mental health problems will be to compare next year to this year.
I talked to a psychologist and she said that mental health challenges most likely existed prior to the outbreak.
Most of the people dying in Canadian LTC's had health challenges before too....overwhelmingly.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,079
2,945
113
#35
yea the paper was reporting since sweden didnt lockdown their deaths are higher now as the virus eventually did find its way there.

All the nations that had measures in place early came out better off.

Brazil along with the USA were one of the worst as many refused to lockdown and put money/profit over peoples lives.

the ones who really might be hurting are small businesses but here in nz you could apply for wage subsidy. Bosses who cared did so I am so glad I had a good boss who kept us on. There have been some not so good employers who shafted their workers and kept the money for themselves, sadly. we also could report price gouging.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,079
2,945
113
#36
the thing with domestic abuse of course it is under-reported.
Becuase many victims are women and children and consequences are severe for them if they do report, being prisoners in their own homes. the sexual violence must be horrendous for some of them...I think people have got to know they can call someone or of they dont have access to a phone...PRAY.