Who are you voting for?

[TheGrungeDiva]

DIVA – Jesus preached a lot of things but NOT LIBERATION THEOLOGY.

You either don't know the Bible or you don't know what liberation theology teaches.

Liberation theology can basically be summed up in the following:

<<He puts forth his arm in strength *
and scatters the proud-hearted.
He casts the mighty from their thrones *
and raises the lowly.
He fills the starving with good things, *
sends the rich away empty. >>

So which part of that, exactly, do you have a problem with?

 

[Bookends]

Also, about the gay marriage thing. I know that is a very controversial issue, especially among Christian groups, but this is America. While you may personally not agree that it is okay, we are not a theocracy. We can't just dictate law because OUR religion says one thing. Not all Christians can even agree on it. Why ruin someone's Earthly life because of the way you feel? Let them be happy, they're not hurting anyone or doing anything wrong. When gays start rioting and murdering people, then we have a problem. But right now they're just like you and me. They just wanna be happy and live average boring "two-parents-three-kids-and-a-dog" lives.

Ok, but don't make those pay for something they don't agree with!!

 

[Bookends]

uh are you trolling?

what is trolling?

 

[moment_of_faith]

quaker -- no one is keeping a homosexual from being happy. They can have a civil union and get a tax break, but you want the church / preacher to ok their relationship in the eyes of the lord and that is an abomination.

I have no clue what you are talking about me standing next to you and what DIVA said..

 

[moment_of_faith]

DIVA -- all of it if that's what you believe liberation theology teaches

 

[meecha]

Ron Paul is the only candidate who is really suggesting that we actually cut spending. Romney and Ryan flap their jaws about it but if you look at what they've actually done, you'll see that they out-spend the President on every issue except for social programs. They spend more on tax cuts for the rich, they spend more on military, they spend more on corporate welfare and bail-outs.

Krugman is one of the top economists in the country. Many economists have said, if you want to learn economics, you don't have to take a class, just read everything he writes. Basically, if he says it, you'd better listen. If someone disagrees with him, they're probably wrong. He's just that good.

Nice to be agreeing with you Grunge..... I'm certainly not under any illusion that I am in Krugman's league ...also I am not prepared to argue with you that Bush certainly out spent Obama and that Romney would too; sadly that's probably true but note that Ron Paul asked the question of Krugman..how much more into debt ( therefore money printing...therefore inflation) do we need to go? This is the Keynesian mantra...spend your way out of debt!!!This view defies common sense and only a politician or an economist or a central banker would argue for it. As a Christian I view it as immoral. As Ron Paul said...inflation is a form of theft.

 

[Nautilus]

Ok, but don't make those pay for something they don't agree with!!

Because somehow gay marriage will cost you money?

quaker -- no one is keeping a homosexual from being happy. They can have a civil union and get a tax break, but you want the church / preacher to ok their relationship in the eyes of the lord and that is an abomination.

Yeah because you know, the gays are really pushing for the churches permission to get married,...or they are just wanting government recognition of their marriage. Most homosexuals couldn't care less if the church accepts it or not.

 

[moment_of_faith]

Then no need to bring up. That could be done on their W2 and no one but them and the government would have to know, but they want our approval. They believe it will make them feel better on the inside, but it want. The Holy Spirit is convicting them of their sin and it is eating them up from the inside out.

 

[iamsoandso]

they crowned mine king almost 200 years ago just before the cross,,,,,,,chose another if you like ill stay loyal to the lord,,,,as it is written "if you disobey you will have another king over you",,,,,how will you decide who is evil and who is not,,,,,it is written,,exodus 22;28,,,,,,and again acts 23;5,,,,,,that you shall not speak evil of your ruler(vote)you say he is good or he is evil,,,,,,,,,if you disobey you will need to select an king,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yet if you obey you will have no king over you of men,,,,,,,but the lord will be your king,,,,,,,,,,,i will remain with my king 1samuel 8;7,,,,,,,,1peter2,,,,romans6;14,,,,,hebrews13;17,,,,,,then read Deuteronomy chapter 28,,,,,,,,reject your king after great thought,,,,,,,,,,choose a new king well,,,,,,,,,i will remain with mine king forever,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Bookends]

Because somehow gay marriage will cost you money?



Yeah because you know, the gays are really pushing for the churches permission to get married,...or they are just wanting government recognition of their marriage. Most homosexuals couldn't care less if the church accepts it or not.

Maybe I'm confused, I thought I was commenting on abortion.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

In response to quakerzen's post on gay marriage:

Ok, but don't make those pay for something they don't agree with!!

Who is asking whom to pay for what that who doesn't agree with?!?!?!?

Gays want the right to the civil rights and privileges that are granted through marriage in this country. The word "marriage" is not owned by God or the church. The word "marriage" isn't nearly old enough, for one thing, and for another, it refers to other things besides matrimony.

But sure, if you want to call it something else, fine, call it something else. Whatever it is called, that thing that two people can receive certain tax benefits and inheritance rights -- there are over 1,000 federal rights pertaining to marriage. Whatever you want to call that: that's what gays want.

Are they sinners? Sure! Of course they're sinners. So am I. So are you. So is the Pope, for Pete's sake! (And he can't get married cause he's Catholic, but that's another blog.)

Gays want those civil rights. Nothing more, nothing less. They are not asking you to pay for the wedding. They're not asking you to like them. They're not asking you to have sex with them. They're not asking you to allow them into your church. (Some of them do want to be in churches, but if a church doesn't want them, they don't want to be there. They just want to go where they're welcome, and there are a few "churches" that do welcome gays.) And I promise you, you cannot "catch" gay from them.

How does granting them this civil, secular right hurt you in a way that allowing some movie star to marry some floozie for 45 minutes before getting it annulled does not hurt? What on earth is so frightening about allowing gays to marry? I just don't get it.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

quaker -- no one is keeping a homosexual from being happy. They can have a civil union and get a tax break,

Actually, in all 50 states, a "civil union" does not grant all the same rights as "marriage."

First of all, "civil union" is not recognized in every state. So if a couple gets a "civil union" in California, then moves to Tennessee, their union is not recognized.

Secondly, a "civil union" is not recognized by the federal government for tax purposes, and for almost all federal benefits. Marriage grants over 1,000 rights federally alone, that are not granted by civil union. And that doesn't even begin to count states rights, which vary from state to state.

Thirdly, many states don't even have the option of "civil union," because people like you have been voting it down and not even allowing gays to get that.

So no, they cannot have a civil union and get a tax break. If a civil union were equivalent to marriage, they wouldn't be fighting for marriage. I guarantee it.

but you want the church / preacher to ok their relationship in the eyes of the lord and that is an abomination.

I cannot speak for quakerzen. Perhaps he does want churches to accept and condone homosexuality.

And I cannot speak for all homosexuals, because I only know a handful, and even they don't agree on everything. But of the ones I know, they couldn't care less what preachers think. They don't care if the church thinks they're going to hell. Very few of them believe in God anyway. (And do you blame them, since they've been told that everything they are is evil and God made them that way?) I pray for them, of course, to come to understand God's unconditional love and forgiveness, but I know many of them will never care what churches or preachers say or do.

Sorry, but you're just plain wrong. That is not what they want. Most of them just want to be left alone to live their own lives.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

DIVA -- all of it if that's what you believe liberation theology teaches

Vanna, can I buy a verb?

 

[moment_of_faith]

Yes we are all sinners, and straight people and their marriages are some crazy messed up things sometimes, but you don't justify bad behavior by pointing to bad behavior.

Then on top of it America has many problems so let&#8217;s not through another log on the fire.

Now if Obama is brave enough to stand up and defend their rights he is not brave enough to stand up and bring a case for all homosexuals to just put on their tax returns that they are homosexual and have a partner and get the benefits??

I really don&#8217;t know why when his regulatory czar believes that way.

Cass Sunstein -- who currently is the Administrator of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs in the Obama administration

Marriage

In a recent book, Sunstein proposes that government recognition of marriage be discontinued. "Under our proposal, the word marriage would no longer appear in any laws, and marriage licenses would no longer be offered or recognized by any level of government," argues Sunstein. He continues, "the only legal status states would confer on couples would be a civil union, which would be a domestic partnership agreement between any two people." He goes on further, "Governments would not be asked to endorse any particular relationships by conferring on them the term marriage," and refers to state-recognized marriage as an "official license scheme."[16]
Isn&#8217;t it funny the lord tells us this..

1 Timothy 4:3 They will say it is wrong to be married and wrong to eat certain foods

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

This is the Keynesian mantra...spend your way out of debt!!!This view defies common sense and only a politician or an economist or a central banker would argue for it

I might agree that it defies "common sense," in that you'd think it wouldn't work.

But those of us who've done the math, and those of us who study economic history, know that it actually does work. By some crazy kind of logic, it works. It always has worked, when applied correctly, and there is every reason to believe it will continue to work.

The great depression of the 30s, we got out of it through Keynesian economics. The crazy over-inflation of the 70s? Keynes came through again and gave us the Booming 80s. Then Reagan came and squandered it all and left us with another recession. Which Clinton then fixed, again, with Keynesian economics..... and on and on.

See, if you look at the data, follow the bouncing ball of taxes, you'll find it actually does work. Crazy, perhaps, but once you get your head wrapped around the math, it actually starts to make sense. (LOL, that's when I realized I was a real nerd ... when economics started to make sense!)

What I find miraculous is that Keynesian economics most closely follows Jesus' commandment. Give. Give like there's no tomorrow. Give and give and give, and then when you think it's all gone, give some more. And when you do that, you find it comes back to you. Hundred-fold.

I know in my personal life, I've found that to be the case. Some call it "Karma." Those of us who know Jesus know better, right?

And of course, it's not just throwing money willy-nilly. That would be insane. No economist would ever suggest we just throw money at poor people (or at rich people) and not expect anything in return. Keynesian economics assumes that there are "strings" attached to the money. You gotta put it back into the system. That's how capitalism works. That's where it generates more.

It really does work. Amazingly enough.

I hear tea-baggers compare the Federal budget to a household budget, and they say, "If you don't have enough money, you stop spending. That's the fiscally responsible thing to do."

But that is NOT what most families do. Let's say a family earns $1,000 a month, and their necessary expenses -- food, rent, etc. -- is $2,000. Do they just stop paying the bills? Do they say, "Oh, I guess we can't eat any more. Oh, well." Of course not. Sure, they look for ways to cut spending. Can we move to a cheaper apartment? Can we save money on groceries somehow? But eventually, they're going to have to raise revenue. And sometimes that takes a little dip into savings. If Dad shows up to his job interview wearing the grubby jeans and t-shirt he's been wearing for weeks because he can't afford new clothes, do you think he's going to get that job? He does need to invest a little into a nice suit to interview for a higher-paying job. Maybe you can save money by not sending the kids to college. Yes, that saves a lot of money! But wait, then your kids will be in the same boat. Better to send them to school, even if it means going into debt, so that they can achieve more, and pay back that debt and then some.

You see where that's going?

Is there waste in government? Oh, I'm sure there is. You don't need to send links to the sites that talk about the $500 toilet seats or $1,000 hammers. I know. But investing in certain programs -- programs that ensure future growth -- is absolutely the way to get yourself out of debt.

It worked in the 30s, it worked in the 80s, and if Obama can get congress to work with him, it will work again.

Again, I'm not thrilled with Obama's foreign policy. But his economic plan is spot on.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Then no need to bring up. That could be done on their W2 and no one but them and the government would have to know, but they want our approval. They believe it will make them feel better on the inside, but it want. The Holy Spirit is convicting them of their sin and it is eating them up from the inside out.

No, it is illegal and fraud to claim that you're married if you aren't, and it is currently illegal to be married to someone of your own gender, for federal tax purposes.

Seriously, you didn't know that?

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Now if Obama is brave enough to stand up and defend their rights he is not brave enough to stand up and bring a case for all homosexuals to just put on their tax returns that they are homosexual and have a partner and get the benefits??

Man, have you been living under a rock or something?

This is EXACTLY what gays and lesbians have been asking for.

Obama, personally, and most of his administration, would LOVE to make this so. It is the conservative Christians who are saying no. That's right YOU and your croneys are standing in the way of that exact thing.

THAT is why we liberals don't get it. I'm glad to hear that you, personally, don't agree with what your party is saying. I hope there are more like you, who just don't understand what gays and lesbians are asking for, and soon we can all put this behind us.

 

[moment_of_faith]

The only way you can spend yourself out of a hole is when you build things. America doesn't build anything anymore and Obama is cracking down on small business and wanting to raise taxes on the middle class and yes a few hundred a year is middle class not the rich.

NO we are against gay marriage. I don't care what anyone does in their bedroom. Just keep it there.

 

[BillyTheKid]

I hate to make a comment that is actually about the original post, but I am most likely voting for Romney Now, you can return to your arguments in a thread that doesn't have anything to do with the topic you are arguing about

 

[moment_of_faith]

Sorry -- hhhlga89