Who is voting for Trump again?

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calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,609
4,416
113
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lawton ok
SO are you doing your part?
Do you use solar for lights and internet as I do?
Do you use wood for heat as I do?
Do you use spring water with a gravity flow to your house as I do?
Do you heat your bath water with solar as I do?

People who complain about the evils of fossil fuels need to do their part before they preach to others.
Our town has a wind farm for power. The ground water is undrinkable. The price of wood and inefficiency of the fire place makes it useless. We don't own the house. And there's a city ordinance against roof top solar panels. They are considered an eyesore.
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,323
940
113
Our town has a wind farm for power. The ground water is undrinkable. The price of wood and inefficiency of the fire place makes it useless. We don't own the house. And there's a city ordinance against roof top solar panels. They are considered an eyesore.
Here is the problem my friend---
You and many others would like to not rely on fossil fuels, but those in the government make it almost impossible by their rules and regulations while at the same time preaching to us what terrible people we are for using fossil fuels.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,609
4,416
113
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lawton ok
The drought is depleting the Oklahoma aquifer. The ground is sinking. Wall's, streets and pipes are breaking all over town and the water is poisoned by pesticides and petroleum. people that can afford to leave and don't have ties here are but the property value isn't keeping up with the cost of living. So if they go they have to suffer the loss.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,609
4,416
113
65
lawton ok
Here is the problem my friend---
You and many others would like to not rely on fossil fuels, but those in the government make it almost impossible by their rules and regulations while at the same time preaching to us what terrible people we are for using fossil fuels.
True. Most if not all of our representatives are getting kick backs from the oil companies. This IS Oklahoma.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,012
558
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And that attitude guarantees they will always be.

When people get tired enough of this, they will start voting third party. When third party candidates start taking a larger portion of the vote, a truly viable one will come forward.

Chicken, meet your egg.
Nope. I am a realist. You can wish all day but if the people are not leaning towards a third party candidate then your just part of the 3 or less percentage. Gary Johnson won 3.3 percent of the national popular vote, and Jill Stein 1.0 percent.

By reading the political atmosphere most people know as the election grows closer who the popular candidates are and because we a largely a 2 party system most of our state representatives are either Democratic or republican and this will affect the electoral college.

So until the country by majority swings third party and votes in state representatives all across the country, we will unfortunately stay a two party system.

Our Founders warned of this system:

John Adams said:

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.​
George Washington agreed, saying in his farewell presidential speech:



The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty
Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.
It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.
There is an opinion, that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the Government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of Liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in Governments of a Monarchical cast, Patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in Governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And, there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be, by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.​

The only 1 I would even consider is the thoughts behind the conservative Republican party. Any other like libertarians or green party doesn't line up to the foundational principles that created America. I vote idealogies not parties. Currently the idealogy of the conservative party is the closest to what our Founders had in mind.

Conclusion: yes we need more parties but more parties that want to be even more American and fight to grow closer to the American foundation. And until the political atmosphere changes and the people grow in this thought then your 3% will grow to 52%. This also comes with our education system who must teach this stuff and not the history that the revisionist have written. A largely liberal education system is only producing liberal progressives with socialistic ideals.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,609
4,416
113
65
lawton ok
Nope. I am a realist. You can wish all day but if the people are not leaning towards a third party candidate then your just part of the 3 or less percentage. Gary Johnson won 3.3 percent of the national popular vote, and Jill Stein 1.0 percent.

By reading the political atmosphere most people know as the election grows closer who the popular candidates are and because we a largely a 2 party system most of our state representatives are either Democratic or republican and this will affect the electoral college.

So until the country by majority swings third party and votes in state representatives all across the country, we will unfortunately stay a two party system.

Our Founders warned of this system:

John Adams said:

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.​
George Washington agreed, saying in his farewell presidential speech:



The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty​
Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.​
It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.​
There is an opinion, that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the Government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of Liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in Governments of a Monarchical cast, Patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in Governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And, there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be, by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.​

The only 1 I would even consider is the thoughts behind the conservative Republican party. Any other like libertarians or green party doesn't line up to the foundational principles that created America. I vote idealogies not parties. Currently the idealogy of the conservative party is the closest to what our Founders had in mind.

Conclusion: yes we need more parties but more parties that want to be even more American and fight to grow closer to the American foundation. And until the political atmosphere changes and the people grow in this thought then your 3% will grow to 52%. This also comes with our education system who must teach this stuff and not the history that the revisionist have written. A largely liberal education system is only producing liberal progressives with socialistic ideals.
Nope. I am a realist. You can wish all day but if the people are not leaning towards a third party candidate then your just part of the 3 or less percentage. Gary Johnson won 3.3 percent of the national popular vote, and Jill Stein 1.0 percent.

By reading the political atmosphere most people know as the election grows closer who the popular candidates are and because we a largely a 2 party system most of our state representatives are either Democratic or republican and this will affect the electoral college.

So until the country by majority swings third party and votes in state representatives all across the country, we will unfortunately stay a two party system.

Our Founders warned of this system:

John Adams said:

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.​
George Washington agreed, saying in his farewell presidential speech:



The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty​
Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.​
It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.​
There is an opinion, that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the Government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of Liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in Governments of a Monarchical cast, Patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in Governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And, there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be, by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.​

The only 1 I would even consider is the thoughts behind the conservative Republican party. Any other like libertarians or green party doesn't line up to the foundational principles that created America. I vote idealogies not parties. Currently the idealogy of the conservative party is the closest to what our Founders had in mind.

Conclusion: yes we need more parties but more parties that want to be even more American and fight to grow closer to the American foundation. And until the political atmosphere changes and the people grow in this thought then your 3% will grow to 52%. This also comes with our education system who must teach this stuff and not the history that the revisionist have written. A largely liberal education system is only producing liberal progressives with socialistic ideals.
That was excellent food for thought. Perhaps the best I've read regarding politics so far on this site. I need to think about a while. Thank you.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,027
1,964
113
Yes of course I do. But what do we tell our great grandchildren when they ask why we didn't do something?
At least the fossil fuel consumers will carry the burden and the less they use the less they'll pay.

But brother what do you tell your great grandchildren when they are sitting in a country like Cuba, or worse? What will you say when they asked why you stood by while 65 million babies were murdered? What will you say when pedophiles are legally sexually assaulting children,cause that's next. We can keep going.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,609
4,416
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lawton ok
But brother what do you tell your great grandchildren when they are sitting in a country like Cuba, or worse? What will you say when they asked why you stood by while 65 million babies were murdered? What will you say when pedophiles are legally sexually assaulting children,cause that's next. We can keep going.
Who the heck was talking about that? I was talking about protecting the environment. I'm not a member of any party in fact I'm adopted and I think abortion for birth control should be a felony. Just because I'm strongly against some things 1 side is in favor of dosn't put me on the other side! This is a free country and I don't have to vote along any party line. That's why I joined the military to defend the bill of rights. Abortion is one of them.

When I was a kid the smog was so thick we couldn't see (20 miles) half way across Los Angeles from the hill where we lived. My father died of asbestos lung disease. Latinos and Blacks couldn't buy a house in our neighborhood. It took government regulations to get the lead out of the , asbestos out of work places and to mandate fair housing not based on racial zoning laws. Bernie's a pipe dreamer Hillary manipulated the DNC and they're both pro abortion.

Don't get it twisted. Because I want clean air and water and laws to protect us from the money grubbing sharks that couldn't care less about humanity or the planet. It dosn't make me a Marxist. In the Bible it says "come let us reason together" I choose the center lane!
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,609
4,416
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lawton ok
All it takes to ban abortion is a constitutional amendment. The Constitution will override any decision the supreme court can make like Roe vs Wade won't be overturned retroactively but it can lose it's precidence. Or if 75% of the states can get together against it. It can be banned nationwide.

That's where they are heading with the legalization of Marijuana. In case someone hasn't figured that out yet. However individual states will still have the authority to ban it. Just like dry states can still prohibit alcohol.
 

Susanna

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2013
3,612
651
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I completely disagree with your premises or would it be premisi? LOl

What are the Republicans doing that is so bad? Besides thwarting Trump?

And I am willing to wager whatever you'd like that either the donkeys or the elephants WILL win the White House.

And please answer the question I posed to Susanna. WHO is this magical, wonderful 3rd party candidate (who WILL have just as many flaws, if not more, as everybody else running) , and what is the platform of this magical 3rd party?


See, it is sophomorically easy to aggrandize a mystical, yet named person or party, til you actually see who they are and what they stand for.
You’re just trying to ridicule anyone not thinking like yourself. Sad.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
780
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Oh good Lord Ricky! I’d rather you directly pull the donkey lever than have to try and walk you through the insane amount of inaccuracies, half truths, and outright lies in this ridiculous post!
Knowing how blinded you are by money and those who hoard it, I don't know why I even tried.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,012
558
113
That was excellent food for thought. Perhaps the best I've read regarding politics so far on this site. I need to think about a while. Thank you.
I joined this site about 6 years ago to debate theology and Christian doctrine. I had read the Bible without any of those fogging up my understanding. So the next step was to then see which Christian doctrines was accurate.

So after I got a good grip on that I moved on to debate atheist, skeptics or other religions. All of these always included political issues because much dealing with morality is political.

This of course also brought up all the misunderstandings of my country's history and its foundational beliefs that shaped this very country. How America was greatly influenced by the Judeo Christian religion and how most of our founders was also religious being evident in their journals, recorded debates in the creation of our core doctrines, biographies, and historical events.

So for political issues I look
1 look to the Bible
2 look at the original thoughts, debates, and original understanding behind the founding documents and laws
3 and finally what does history have to teach us on the political issue.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,473
3,608
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Knowing how blinded you are by money and those who hoard it, I don't know why I even tried.
Ha! Coming from the guy who is always complaining about the “rich”, yet has a six figure income, that’s beyond laughable!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,473
3,608
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You’re just trying to ridicule anyone not thinking like yourself. Sad.
Still haven’t seen you tell us who this mythical 3rd party candidate is and what their platform is.

How is that ridicule?
 

Susanna

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2013
3,612
651
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Still haven’t seen you tell us who this mythical 3rd party candidate is and what their platform is.

How is that ridicule?
Sadly you fail to realize that this isn’t about a candidate. It’s about the system. The important thing is that there’s a way of changing the dysfunctional political monopoly of Elephants and Donkeys.

There might not be a decent third party candidate for years to come, but we have to start somewhere.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,609
4,416
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lawton ok
What are the Republicans doing that is so bad? Besides thwarting Trump?
I'm glad you asked because I believe that Nixon was a CIA mole when he was vice president and conspired with Hoffa to fund the Bay of Pigs debacle he was expected to get elected as Pres in 60 but shot himself in the foot when he debated JFK on live TV.
Of course JFK was unaware 'till he was in office but decided on bad advise to let it go through unaware that Castro knew about it (spies are always untrustworthy) JFK pulled the plug when they got ambushed rather than start WW3 over a banana republic. IKE warned JFK and the nation about the Military Industrial Complex in his retirement address when JFK was inaugurated.

That's why the Kennedy's went so fervently after Hoffa and why JFK decided to shred the CIA. That's what got him killed and how LBJ succeeded to office. E. Howard Hunt made a death bed confession the LBJ put him up to it and Jerald Ford and G. Bush senior were already deeply entrenched in the CIA and the CIA had been in Viet Nam since the 50's Tricky Dick got Kissinger to make a deal with the kangaroo elected to thwart the peace talks till after the 68 election Because after RFK was murdered Hubert Humphrey was espousing that the peace negation's were working and the N. Vietnamese and Viet Cong were willing to come to the table so. Nixon was pushing the get tough strategy. Nixon made a deal with Hoffa. If Hoffa could swing the union vote his Hoffa would get pardoned. The only obstacle was Bobby Kennedy who most assuredly would have reopened the JFK assignation case. Bobby Got murdered too.

LBJ illegally had Nguyen Van Thieu's office bugged and heard about it but couldn't blow the whistle on Nixon or Kissinger because of JFK. It was conspiracy to commit treason. But they had enough dirt on LBJ to hang him too.
So what happened? The Pentagon Papers started to reveal the story but it was pushed out of the way by Watergate, which co-indecently involved E.H. Hunt too. It was revealed that Nixon feared the bay of Pigs would get reopened so he arranged to borrow money from B.B. Rebozo to keep hunt's mouth shut.

Agnew Resigned, Nixon resigned Ford became President. Nixon, hunt and Hoffa got pardoned. Fast foreword to 1980. Iran/Contra while our last Christian President Jimmy Carter was trying to make a deal with the Khomeini regime Ollie North made a deal to trade guns for hostages. Eerily similar to the Kissinger/Thieu deal of 68. George Bush Sr. also a former CIA director. Who would have became Governor of Texas if Connelly would have been killed in the JFK ambush became Vice President just like Ford did and later also became President under different, more friendly, circumstances.

I'm convinced the Rothchild's, The Freemasons, The Vatican bank with collusion from the petro chemical and pharmaceutical industries will all be in collusion with the Beast and the Antichrist. The two most valuable useful commodities in the world today is Petroleum and Opium. That's why we were in Viet Nam and that's why we are in the Middle east. I fear the USA has usurped the RCC as the great prostitute.

Remember. You asked on a public forum and likewise I answered. Both sides are evil. Hillary is a witch and Trump is an idolater. Whom ever we choose won't make any difference because The committees will decide who runs against the other and they are both evil. All other most likely candidates are in league with the enemy too.

We've been played!