Can you want to be saved and not be?

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Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
2,297
2,496
113
64
#21
How do you know think you can tell when you're "doing enough" or when you "should be doing more"?
Hello SeoulSearch, salvation is all about Jesus Christ and what He did for us/did on our behalf, alone, so if/when we begin to think along the lines of, "did I do/am I doing enough to truly be saved", then enough is NEVER enough, because there is nothing that 'we' can do (or that we fail to do .. save believing) that will ever be "enough". What the Lord Jesus did (for all of us/all believers) 'was' enough, so we should all rest in that fact, yes :)

That said, when God saves us, He makes us His workmanship (masterpiece), created as wholly new creatures in Christ, for/unto good works, as well as for/unto all of the many other things that accompany (are the result or fruit of) our salvation .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; Ephesians 2:8-10; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Hebrews 6:9. God knows whether we are capable of doing more or not concerning our sanctification, but like you, I wonder what sort of things there are that we should be looking at/examining, so that we can know too :unsure:

It seems to me that one way of knowing is found in rightly assessing the state or condition of our relationship with God. Are we praying, rejoicing, thanking Him daily/without ceasing (some have referred to this as practicing the presence of God in our lives), or are we only thinking about Him/communicating with Him as a last resort instead (when we want/need something from Him) :unsure:

There is also the fruit of the Spirit to consider .. Galatians 5:22-23. Are they (the fruits of the Spirit) what characterizes your life, or is it the deeds of the flesh and mind instead .. Galatians 5:19-21?

Those are the tests that come to my mind immediately, but surely there are more, yes :unsure:

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - I think that it might help us "know" if we are doing/have done enough if this portion of St. Patrick's LORICA (prayer) could be said to be true of us:


Christ in the heart of everyone who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of everyone who speaks of me,
Christ in every eye that sees me,
Christ in every ear that hears me.

The wonderful/wondrous thing is, God is always at work in us/sanctifying us, so that if such a thing cannot be said of us today, it still may be someday :)
 

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Live4Him

Guest
#22
I am legitimately concerned about my salvation. Thankfully there are people here willing to help. I am grateful to them and I have no deceitful intentions if that's what you mean. I have very few places to turn to to discuss these type of questions. If I'm going to get heckled here I will find another Christian forum.
Hi, Kojikun.

First of all, I am terribly sorry for the things that one poster here (she's banned now) said to you. There was nothing Christlike in that response at all, so please don't pay it any mind or think that it was any way, shape, or form from the Lord because it wasn't. In fact, it was straight from Satan.

As far as your salvation is concerned, please be encouraged by the following:

"The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." (Psalm 34:18)

I'm sure that the LORD sees all that you are presently going through, and I pray that he will be your strength in your time of weakness.

As far as your "fruit" is concerned, it is the natural byproduct of abiding in the true vine, Jesus.

John chapter 15

[4] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[5] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Just abide in him.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
3,983
2,493
113
#23
Hi, Kojikun.

First of all, I am terribly sorry for the things that one poster here (she's banned now) said to you. There was nothing Christlike in that response at all, so please don't pay it any mind or think that it was any way, shape, or form from the Lord because it wasn't. In fact, it was straight from Satan.

As far as your salvation is concerned, please be encouraged by the following:

"The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." (Psalm 34:18)

I'm sure that the LORD sees all that you are presently going through, and I pray that he will be your strength in your time of weakness.

As far as your "fruit" is concerned, it is the natural byproduct of abiding in the true vine, Jesus.

John chapter 15

[4] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[5] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Just abide in him.
Well I feel bad that they were banned as they've been a member along time. :/ but they were very rude. Thank you I'm glad so many are helpful here :)
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
17,428
4,411
113
#24
All I have to add to the thread is something about having cancer and being weary:

positive_attitude.png

Having a positive attitude is almost tautologically good for your health, but I refuse to feel bad about feeling bad. ;)
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,976
3,205
113
#25
Hi Koji,

I came across a passage in my Bible study today and thought of you. It's one of my favorites in times of great distress, and I hope it will bring you some comfort as well.

Isaiah 43:1-3:
"Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by your name;
YOU ARE MINE.
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you,
When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned,
Nor shall the flame scorch you.
For I am the Lord your God."

Another similar passage that I love is:

Isaiah 41:13:
"For I, the Lord your God, will hold your right hand,
Saying to you,
'Fear not, I will help you.'"

I love that image of God holding our hand while we're scared, weak, lonely, or in the midst of doubt, but yet, this is where God, the maker of the universe, chooses and wants to be -- right beside us, reassuring and comforting us no matter what life may dish out.

I know that Jesus is known by many descriptive names and titles, but my personal favorite is "Immanuel" -- God WITH us -- NOT God keeping His distance on His heavenly throne, or God looking down at us once in a while, or God sending someone else to deal with us, especially when we're at our worst.

No, God Himself describes His nature as being WITH us -- up close and personal through every step, even when everything else has seemed to fail us and we have nowhere else to turn, God says He is WITH us, not distant or ignoring our cries.

This is my prayer for you, Koji -- that when the waters of worry and doubt feel like they're going to overwhelm you, God will show you He's right there, holding you up above the waves; that when you're going to medical appointments and receiving treatment, God will let you know He's right there, holding your hand through everything (maybe in the form of caring doctors and nurses); and when you pass through the fire that life has ignited around you, God will let you know more than ever that He is WITH you, and helping you with every decision.

I think I also read in another post that you had successfully gone on a healthier eating plan and lost a significant amount of weight? That's awesome!!! Keep up the great work!

May God be with you to comfort and strengthen you every moment of the day.

Blessings to you, Koji, and please keep us posted! :)
 

brighthouse98

Senior Member
Apr 16, 2015
272
70
28
67
#26
Kojikun,Let me both give you some comfort and best of all assurance.1. A few years ago I myself asked almost the same question,I prayed Lord I know what you said in your Word but I fail many times to act like I should and wonder if you can still love me.Many months passed,When i pray I only pray something once,God is not hard of hearing!! LOL

So I just would thank him for the answer. One night about 1am in the morning in my mind i dreamed I was walking along a highway,and this giant billboard appeared, it said Proverbs 8:17. Woke me right up!!! I LOVE those who LOVE ME!!! He knows and understands our hardship on becoming a good ambassador! He knows our heart!!

As I was thanking him for the answer,Holly Spirit said just remember my son also,that you shall be know by your fruit!( Matt 7:15-20) And remember something as well,I picked 3 people who wrote both the Old and the new,were they perfect? Moses,David and Paul all had one common flaw,they all murdered someone!! ( Acts 7:22-24) for Moses,( Exodus 2:11-12) For David 2 Sam 11:15-17) and for Paul ( Acts 8:1-3) These men wrote most of the bible!!!! SO!!!! Do not lose hope!!!( Rom 15:13) Jesus is enough to see us through!!! Praise His Holy name Forever!!!
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
3,983
2,493
113
#27
Kojikun,Let me both give you some comfort and best of all assurance.1. A few years ago I myself asked almost the same question,I prayed Lord I know what you said in your Word but I fail many times to act like I should and wonder if you can still love me.Many months passed,When i pray I only pray something once,God is not hard of hearing!! LOL

So I just would thank him for the answer. One night about 1am in the morning in my mind i dreamed I was walking along a highway,and this giant billboard appeared, it said Proverbs 8:17. Woke me right up!!! I LOVE those who LOVE ME!!! He knows and understands our hardship on becoming a good ambassador! He knows our heart!!

As I was thanking him for the answer,Holly Spirit said just remember my son also,that you shall be know by your fruit!( Matt 7:15-20) And remember something as well,I picked 3 people who wrote both the Old and the new,were they perfect? Moses,David and Paul all had one common flaw,they all murdered someone!! ( Acts 7:22-24) for Moses,( Exodus 2:11-12) For David 2 Sam 11:15-17) and for Paul ( Acts 8:1-3) These men wrote most of the bible!!!! SO!!!! Do not lose hope!!!( Rom 15:13) Jesus is enough to see us through!!! Praise His Holy name Forever!!!
I had a bit of an epiphany today. As you said, they all committed murder. That being said, Jesus states, Hating someone is the same offense as murder. Imagine all the hate someone gives in there lifetime 🤔 I think that puts us all the same level tbh.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#28
I don't know how a person can want to believe in and trust in Jesus and not believe and trust in Jesus. If you want to you will.
 

brighthouse98

Senior Member
Apr 16, 2015
272
70
28
67
#29
AGREE!!!! Kojikun!!! And just think of it!!! He loved us so much he looks at each one of us in this light!!!! ( Phil 4:7-9) EVERYDAY!!!! So great is his LOVE!! He does this so all who claim to believe in him will follow in this!! It takes some practice!!! LOL But we will get there!!
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,976
3,205
113
#30
Hey Koji,

I was thinking of you during my Bible reading. I'm still in Isaiah, lol - can't quite seem to get through it all any time soon - but many of the passages in this book are making me think of your situation.

How are you doing?
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
3,983
2,493
113
#31
Hey Koji,

I was thinking of you during my Bible reading. I'm still in Isaiah, lol - can't quite seem to get through it all any time soon - but many of the passages in this book are making me think of your situation.

How are you doing?
Good! Sore but, good. Surgery went well. The cancer and a chunk of the kidney were removed.
 
Dec 30, 2020
173
61
28
#32
Hi Kogikun. The Bible gives the recipe for salvation. The first ingredient is Repentance. You have to recognize that you are a sinner and undeserving of His grace. This repentance has to be sincere and deep enough that it can only come from the Father. You pray to Him asking for forgiveness and strength to overcome your sins as well as asking Him for help in doing His will. The second ingredient is trusting in His plan for salvation through Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. The third ingredient is receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that makes us part of the body of Christ, one with the Father and Son, and adopted children of the Father. The Holy Spirit of God fills our heart with the same love shared by the Father and Son. It is when we are guided by this love for God and people that we are obeying the Spirit of the Law under which the Letter of the Law is based. It is this love of God and people that perfects us.

Getting back to your original post, many Christians have a head knowledge of Salvation but are not filled with the Holy Spirit of God. Your assurance of Salvation comes from sensing the fruit of the Spirit. No more anger or hate. Just love for God and people and the desire to do the Father's will. Then you will have peace and assurance.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
3,983
2,493
113
#33
Hi Kogikun. The Bible gives the recipe for salvation. The first ingredient is Repentance. You have to recognize that you are a sinner and undeserving of His grace. This repentance has to be sincere and deep enough that it can only come from the Father. You pray to Him asking for forgiveness and strength to overcome your sins as well as asking Him for help in doing His will. The second ingredient is trusting in His plan for salvation through Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. The third ingredient is receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that makes us part of the body of Christ, one with the Father and Son, and adopted children of the Father. The Holy Spirit of God fills our heart with the same love shared by the Father and Son. It is when we are guided by this love for God and people that we are obeying the Spirit of the Law under which the Letter of the Law is based. It is this love of God and people that perfects us.

Getting back to your original post, many Christians have a head knowledge of Salvation but are not filled with the Holy Spirit of God. Your assurance of Salvation comes from sensing the fruit of the Spirit. No more anger or hate. Just love for God and people and the desire to do the Father's will. Then you will have peace and assurance.
Yes, I pray for it all the time. Sometimes my self doubt overshadows my life. I know God can deliver on his promise, I just get into a funk sometimes.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,289
13,590
113
#34
Hi Koji, I came across a passage in my Bible study today and thought of you. It's one of
my favorites in times of great distress, and I hope it will bring you some comfort as well.

Isaiah 43:1-3: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by your name;
YOU ARE MINE.
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you,
When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned,
Nor shall the flame scorch you.
For I am the Lord your God."

Another similar passage that I love is:

Isaiah 41:13:
"For I, the Lord your God, will hold your right hand,
Saying to you,
'Fear not, I will help you.'"

I love that image of God holding our hand while we're scared, weak, lonely, or in the midst of doubt, but yet, this is where God, the maker of the universe, chooses and wants to be -- right beside us, reassuring and comforting us no matter what life may dish out.

I know that Jesus is known by many descriptive names and titles, but my personal favorite is "Immanuel" -- God WITH us -- NOT God keeping His distance on His heavenly throne, or God looking down at us once in a while, or God sending someone else to deal with us, especially when we're at our worst.

No, God Himself describes His nature as being WITH us -- up close and personal through every step, even when everything else has seemed to fail us and we have nowhere else to turn, God says He is WITH us, not distant or ignoring our cries.

This is my prayer for you, Koji -- that when the waters of worry and doubt feel like they're going to overwhelm you, God will show you He's right there, holding you up above the waves; that when you're going to medical appointments and receiving treatment, God will let you know He's right there, holding your hand through everything (maybe in the form of caring doctors and nurses); and when you pass through the fire that life has ignited around you, God will let you know more than ever that He is WITH you, and helping you with every decision.

I think I also read in another post that you had successfully gone on a healthier eating plan and lost a significant amount of weight? That's awesome!!! Keep up the great work!

May God be with you to comfort and strengthen you every moment of the day.

Blessings to you, Koji, and please keep us posted! :)

from Isaiah 43:1-3
Thank you for the inspiration, Kim :)

And for always being willing to share the treasures of your heart...
 
M

MoonCresta

Guest
#35
The fact that you are concerned
Displays a level of connection and respect for God.
The opposite of love is indifference
Your question proves you are not indifferent
So, to have your emotions moved
Towards the consciousness of God
Is of value
We all have feelings, experiences doubts, we live and breathe in this confusing world and it's a journey. You have inside you a compass that directs your journey.
That is the consciousness of God. A part of you desires to be right with him to know him. Well, that tells me you are on the right path.

Ditto!
 

CorrectiveLens

Active member
Dec 30, 2020
173
61
28
#36
Koji,

If I'm straying too far from your original topic, please just let me know. I'm not trying to barge in or re-direct your thread at all, but I've noticed in other threads that productive discussions seem to help you? So since this subject was brought up, I thought I'd ask...

I struggle with the thought of "not doing enough" all the time.

I always wonder if the fact that most Christians feel the need to run themselves ragged comes from the double whammy that comes from both church culture (which seems to communicate that whoever is "doing the most for Jesus" "wins",) and the modern culture we live in that tells us we have to produce tangible results every waking moment or we're wasting our lives away.

At the same time, when you read in the Bible about people who were tortured and martyred for their faith, and know it's still happening to other Christians in these modern times, one can't help but feel like a spiritual sloth.

How do you know think you can tell when you're "doing enough" or when you "should be doing more"? (I'm specifically asking this in response to Koji and G00's posts, but it's an open question for anyone.)

Again, Koji, just tell me if I'm out of line, and I apologize if I am. I just thought that since the topic came up, maybe you'd like some other's thoughts on it as well...
When Jehovah's Witnesses come knocking on my door, I welcome them with open arms. Then I ask them about their success rate from intruding in people's lives. Not too good. They think that they can work themselves to heaven. I then explain the Gospel to them and that the best way to spread the Gospel is to your friends , family, and acquaintances. They will receive you much better than a stranger and be more receptive to what you have to say. They will be even more receptive when they observe the love that is in your heart for God and people (including yourself). Don't judge yourself by the trials you go through but by the degree of confidence you have that you are a child of God and He will always be there with you through trials and through them help you to grow. Do what God wants you to do which is to love Him and those He loves which is everyone else including you. If you have that love, you will know because you feel it. It's like God created humanity with a free will and the ability to reproduce like kind. Unfortunately , they proved a defective heart (which guided their behavior). All descendants of Adam and Eve are born with this defect.

Romans 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

In the Father's kingdom there is perfect justice and mercy. The wages of sin is death and punishment. Since we are born with a defective heart that leads us to sin, we are all doomed. His choices are save everyone, save no one, or save a few. If He saved everyone, their would not be perfect Justice in His kingdom. If He saved no one, He would not be a merciful God. His only option is to save a few throughout the history of mankind.
The Father's plan was to have a human who was sinless to obediently expose himself to the punishment of death so that life will be owed to Him because of the perfect Justice which is demanded by the Father.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,670
1,119
113
#37
I'm fine with discussing things here. I dont mind going off topic. I dont have to many places to discuss this stuff as social media is getting more and more restrictive, and certain topics are difficult to discuss without potentially getting banned. I try to stay out of debates as I lose my temper to quickly to be of any use in a debate. I think after my operation I will probably start attending church I've been wanting to go too. I'm hoping to get help with my biblical questions there as well.
Hmm, do you mean here being restrictive?

I presume you meant elsewhere but there are certainly restrictions here in a different way than the big sites.


I'd like to give you encouragement where you are but speaking to the "feelings" of not being saved, I've come to think that may be the flesh. I've felt like that since I was young. Most times I had no doubts on salvation but the other times.......


Other than one verse (unless those days were shortened...) I have to assume that my flesh IS lost. Even if the Lord were to translate me (rapture) still would my mind as it is be "saved"?

Idk, I want to post some of my "angst" for lack of a better word within my own spiritual walk and the doubts that I have had and how I work through them but some of it might just cause more for another person which I do NOT intend...though sometimes just with scripture and the Lord meeting me through various means they are quelled but more often though I sort of "table" or "shelve" them to address at a later date. Have you ever tried this "ignoring" tactic and do you find that if you ignore it long enough it sort of changes format?

any doubt I have is sort of similar to being "hot and bothered"...it eventually dissipates if ignored/pushed past. The problem sometimes is I don't want to ignore/push past/overcome I want resolution but if the flesh is what is creating a problem the answer isn't for the Lord to fix your flesh or meet you within that (though he does at times methinks). So then, what is?
 

G00WZ

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
1,074
325
83
35
#38
When Jehovah's Witnesses come knocking on my door, I welcome them with open arms. Then I ask them about their success rate from intruding in people's lives. Not too good. They think that they can work themselves to heaven. I then explain the Gospel to them and that the best way to spread the Gospel is to your friends , family, and acquaintances. They will receive you much better than a stranger and be more receptive to what you have to say. They will be even more receptive when they observe the love that is in your heart for God and people (including yourself). Don't judge yourself by the trials you go through but by the degree of confidence you have that you are a child of God and He will always be there with you through trials and through them help you to grow. Do what God wants you to do which is to love Him and those He loves which is everyone else including you. If you have that love, you will know because you feel it. It's like God created humanity with a free will and the ability to reproduce like kind. Unfortunately , they proved a defective heart (which guided their behavior). All descendants of Adam and Eve are born with this defect.

Romans 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

In the Father's kingdom there is perfect justice and mercy. The wages of sin is death and punishment. Since we are born with a defective heart that leads us to sin, we are all doomed. His choices are save everyone, save no one, or save a few. If He saved everyone, their would not be perfect Justice in His kingdom. If He saved no one, He would not be a merciful God. His only option is to save a few throughout the history of mankind.
The Father's plan was to have a human who was sinless to obediently expose himself to the punishment of death so that life will be owed to Him because of the perfect Justice which is demanded by the Father.
If you want Jehovah's witnesses to leave just start talking about Jesus, the book of Matthew and the New Testament.
 

CorrectiveLens

Active member
Dec 30, 2020
173
61
28
#39
I don't want them to leave. I see it as an opportunity to guide them to the truth by making them feel welcomed and open.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
3,983
2,493
113
#40
Hmm, do you mean here being restrictive?

I presume you meant elsewhere but there are certainly restrictions here in a different way than the big sites.


I'd like to give you encouragement where you are but speaking to the "feelings" of not being saved, I've come to think that may be the flesh. I've felt like that since I was young. Most times I had no doubts on salvation but the other times.......


Other than one verse (unless those days were shortened...) I have to assume that my flesh IS lost. Even if the Lord were to translate me (rapture) still would my mind as it is be "saved"?

Idk, I want to post some of my "angst" for lack of a better word within my own spiritual walk and the doubts that I have had and how I work through them but some of it might just cause more for another person which I do NOT intend...though sometimes just with scripture and the Lord meeting me through various means they are quelled but more often though I sort of "table" or "shelve" them to address at a later date. Have you ever tried this "ignoring" tactic and do you find that if you ignore it long enough it sort of changes format?

any doubt I have is sort of similar to being "hot and bothered"...it eventually dissipates if ignored/pushed past. The problem sometimes is I don't want to ignore/push past/overcome I want resolution but if the flesh is what is creating a problem the answer isn't for the Lord to fix your flesh or meet you within that (though he does at times methinks). So then, what is?
More along the lines of social media. Certain topics are targeted more frequently and much more likely to get you banned. This wouldn't be an issue if they didn't have a monopoly on the market and your entire social life and even business didn't depend on there fickle political beliefs and nonsense.