Come on, it's so obvious I'm better than you!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
#41
I think you raise a good point Vidy.
Why would a person who has dedicated themselves to God and committed to purity give such a special gift (their virginity) to someone who has treated their own gift (of virginity) with such contempt and carelessness? And a better question - why do those who have been careless think a person committed to purity should? I believe that God's grace and gift of salvation comes free ... but don't think you have a right to demand or deserve that a person who has maintained virginal purity for Christ's sake should give that to you just because God has forgiven you of your sins.
 
D

Dread_Zeppelin

Guest
#42
I think you raise a good point Vidy.
Why would a person who has dedicated themselves to God and committed to purity give such a special gift (their virginity) to someone who has treated their own gift (of virginity) with such contempt and carelessness? And a better question - why do those who have been careless think a person committed to purity should? I believe that God's grace and gift of salvation comes free ... but don't think you have a right to demand or deserve that a person who has maintained virginal purity for Christ's sake should give that to you just because God has forgiven you of your sins.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe in your warped sense of life people can't make mistakes and come out to be the most wonderful, blessed, and spirit-filled Christians on the planet. I'm sure you know that deep down from all the men used by God in the Bible.

Essencially what you're saying is that God forgives people like me but you can't because I dont deserve your forgiveness. Fine with me! Haha!
 
V

Vidy

Guest
#43
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe in your warped sense of life people can't make mistakes and come out to be the most wonderful, blessed, and spirit-filled Christians on the planet. I'm sure you know that deep down from all the men used by God in the Bible.

Essencially what you're saying is that God forgives people like me but you can't because I dont deserve your forgiveness. Fine with me! Haha!
You deserve my forgiveness. You do not deserve the right to be a candidate for the one who takes my virginity. Simple as that.

While God uses people who makes mistakes, He does not ensure that your decisions won't screw up some things. It was David I think that made a bad decision, and as a result, God did not allow him to rebuild the temple. It was one of his sons or grandsons or something that was given that privilege. Was David still used for God's glory? Of course. Did his mistakes keep him from doing some things he would have otherwise done? Also yes.
 
D

Dread_Zeppelin

Guest
#44
You deserve my forgiveness. You do not deserve the right to be a candidate for the one who takes my virginity. Simple as that.

While God uses people who makes mistakes, He does not ensure that your decisions won't screw up some things. It was David I think that made a bad decision, and as a result, God did notallow him to rebuild the temple. It was one of his sons or grandsons or something that was given that privilege. Was David still used for God's glory? Of course. Did his mistakes keep him from doing some things he would have otherwise done? Also yes.
Let me take your example and put it into what I believe is the nature of Jesus.

I disagree on your interpretation of punishment. You alienate a whole person into banishment (i.e. I reject you completely because of your sin), God alienates a situation where they could have been fulfilled but still maintains a blessed and loving relationship. In your words, the emotional attachment of love between David and God never was severed but the works that David could have done may have suffered. That isn't to say that God never gave David another chance or stopped blessing him because he was forgiven.

The example of situational punishment here would be that I will have emotional scars that will last forever on the result of being taken advantage of. That is the sad truth of my nonvirginity. Your response to what the punishment should be is the whole person is worthless as a mate altogether and is an inferior tainted product. By your logic God should have had nothing to do with David other than at arms length.

Look I'm not saying you shouldn't seek a virgin or that it's not desirable. I would love to be a virgin again- but people like you throw me away. You literally throw me away. Dont you understand that? Don't you know I want the same things as you? To be pure?
 
Mar 2, 2010
31
0
6
#45
You deserve my forgiveness. You do not deserve the right to be a candidate for the one who takes my virginity. Simple as that.

While God uses people who makes mistakes, He does not ensure that your decisions won't screw up some things. It was David I think that made a bad decision, and as a result, God did not allow him to rebuild the temple. It was one of his sons or grandsons or something that was given that privilege. Was David still used for God's glory? Of course. Did his mistakes keep him from doing some things he would have otherwise done? Also yes.

There is a difference between condemnation (which there is now no condemnations for those who are in Christ Jesus) and consequences. Our decisions have consequences, we may be forgiven but we may still carry the Std, or have cancer from the smokes, or have a broken neck from disobeying our parents and trying to jump that ramp with a grocery cart. We can be forgiven, but consequences (earthly anyways) will still take effect) Just because a mass murder accepts Jesus does that mean he should be set free?

We all have our preferences. I said I wanted my wife to be a christian. Is that wrong? that is one standard, If I say that I do not want to marry someone who lacks and education is that wrong? there are many things in preferences. Some choose cultural, ethnicity, race, politics, religion, and others. I think we should be careful in our judging of people who has their preferences in who they want to marry. There is someone that will accept you for who you are, Jesus first, and perhaps a spouse who will Love you and accept you regardless of your past.

I respect those who have their preferences, I hope it is with the right mindset, motive.. Because no one is righteous on their own. We all have sinned.

I think I am running out of change.. but again my 2 cents.

Tom(TACo)
 
M

Matthew

Guest
#46
Why would a person who has dedicated themselves to God and committed to purity give such a special gift (their virginity) to someone who has treated their own gift (of virginity) with such contempt and carelessness?
Well they should potentially be prepared to give the gift of their virginty to a non-virgin mainly because true love and an entire lifetime together is more important.

It's also pretty poor to say someone who hasn't remained a virgin might have treated their virginty with contempt or carelessness, fact is even when it is a consensual act it can be through coersion or a mistake bought on by many things, the weight of the world in general leads us all to mistakes so there doesn't have to be contempt or carelessness involved for a mistake to be made, hence why a little forgiveness and an open-mind is appreciated when a mistake is made.


And a better question - why do those who have been careless think a person committed to purity should? I believe that God's grace and gift of salvation comes free ... but don't think you have a right to demand or deserve that a person who has maintained virginal purity for Christ's sake should give that to you just because God has forgiven you of your sins.
It's not about thinking a virgin shouldn't in turn demand a virgin in marriage, it's more that they ought to at least stay open to the fact that they may develop a strong attraction to someone who isn't a virgin anymore and they shouldn't turn away from that relationship which might have been right for them purely on the basis of that one mistake, no matter what type of mistake it was, I think it's asking for misery to turn away a person who could be your soul mate for that reason.

I've said on this forum many times it's right for everyone to have standards and hopes for what they want in a mate but they shouldn't ever be so rigid on things like this, truth is no-one knows who, if anyone, God has prepared for them and holding to any absolute standard just means you might miss them.

Maybe everyone who wants a vrigin will eventually get one, doesn't mean they'll be the right person in the long run, focus too much one on or two qualities in a person and you run the risk of missing the bigger picture, suddenly you're 80 years old thinking it was your lot in life to be alone, when perhaps the truth is your soul mate passed you by and had only that one deeply regretted sexual experience when they were young and foolish but you couldn't allow yourself to see past it.
 
Last edited:
V

Vidy

Guest
#47
Well they should potentially be prepared to give the gift of their virginty to a non-virgin mainly because true love and an entire lifetime together is more important.

It's also pretty poor to say someone who hasn't remained a virgin might have treated their virginty with contempt or carelessness, fact is even when it is a consensual act it can be through coersion or a mistake bought on by many things, the weight of the world in general leads us all to mistakes so there doesn't have to be contempt or carelessness involved for a mistake to be made, hence why a little forgiveness and an open-mind is appreciated when a mistake is made.



It's not about thinking a virgin shouldn't in turn demand a virgin in marriage, it's more that they ought to at least stay open to the fact that they may develop a strong attraction to someone who isn't a virgin anymore and they shouldn't turn away from that relationship which might have been right for them purely on the basis of that one mistake, no matter what type of mistake it was, I think it's asking for misery to turn away a person who could be your soul mate for that reason.

I've said on this forum many times it's right for everyone to have standards and hopes for what they want in a mate but they shouldn't ever be so rigid on things like this, truth is no-one knows who, if anyone, God has prepared for them and holding to any absolute standard just means you might miss them.

Maybe everyone who wants a vrigin will eventually get one, doesn't mean they'll be the right person in the long run, focus too much one on or two qualities in a person and you run the risk of missing the bigger picture, suddenly you're 80 years old thinking it was your lot in life to be alone, when perhaps the truth is your soul mate passed you by and had only that one deeply regretted sexual experience when they were young and foolish but you couldn't allow yourself to see past it.

I am sorry, but there's a lot of foundational thought processes, almost doctrine-like stuff, that I strongly disagree with (and I did a LOT of research on this particular topic recently).

First- You assume you can't help who you are attracted and get close to. I think this one is common sense, but you can choose to not fall deeply in love with someone ahead of time ~_o Loving is an active choice, especially in this sense ~_o

Second- "The One" and "Soul Mate." This is a very debatable topic, and if you ask you can give your reply to what I'm about to say and then ask me not to debate it back, and that's OK, but I'll attempt to address it. There is NO Biblical support for "The One," or a "Soul Mate." You CHOOSE who you end up with. Plenty of Bible verses saying "And he chose this woman," and "Let them marry who they choose" and stuff. There is no divine "One" person made especially for you.

I think the entire concept is a wordly concept, with a wide variety of effects, positive and negative. For married Christian couples, they can say "God made my partner special just for me." In one sense, yes- as soon as you say "I do," you ARE made for each other, whether you change or not, whether you end up liking each other or not. It's who you are with, PERIOD. there are exceptions with abuse and cheating and the like, of course.

However, it also has negative effects. "I married the wrong person!" The idea leads to cheating and divorce. It also gives some people a false hope, thinking someone is "The ONE," and ends up in a bad relationship, or being more devastated than normal when something goes wrong. People keep waiting for "The One" feeling for someone, and never finds it, because "The One" DOESN'T EXIST. You look, you find, you choose, and the Bible supports that.

There are SOME cases where God "chooses" partners for someone (sometimes specifically, sometimes nonspecific and indirectly). However, this is the exception, not the rule.

And just reminding you- Feel free to respond to that how you wish, and if you feel like it's too far off-topic from the original point of the thread, simply ask me to drop it and I will ^_^
 
V

Vidy

Guest
#48
Let me take your example and put it into what I believe is the nature of Jesus.

I disagree on your interpretation of punishment. You alienate a whole person into banishment (i.e. I reject you completely because of your sin), God alienates a situation where they could have been fulfilled but still maintains a blessed and loving relationship. In your words, the emotional attachment of love between David and God never was severed but the works that David could have done may have suffered. That isn't to say that God never gave David another chance or stopped blessing him because he was forgiven.

The example of situational punishment here would be that I will have emotional scars that will last forever on the result of being taken advantage of. That is the sad truth of my nonvirginity. Your response to what the punishment should be is the whole person is worthless as a mate altogether and is an inferior tainted product. By your logic God should have had nothing to do with David other than at arms length.

Look I'm not saying you shouldn't seek a virgin or that it's not desirable. I would love to be a virgin again- but people like you throw me away. You literally throw me away. Dont you understand that? Don't you know I want the same things as you? To be pure?
"People like me" ?? I wouldn't just "throw you away." I can still be friends, close friends even. I should couldn't be in a romantic relationship with you. It's more of a "mental block" for me than a "you're trash and I'm too good for you" thing. I don't mean to come across that way AT ALL.

Also, I don't fully understand your situation, and I don't really want to hear specifics on it right now (not trying to be rude there, I just don't feel comfortable asking for personal details on stuff like that, or being given said details). I wasn't there, so I don't know the extent of what exactly happened. But regardless, I think it's an unfortunate situation, and I'm sorry for you. However, the situation has limited you in some areas, including some people who don't want to date you anymore. However, there will be SOMEONE for you, you can't just give up because some virgin guys have a "virgins only" standard =/

And again, I'd like to point out that the standard is rarely done in HATE of you. Some people, after getting to know you, may even make exceptions for you =P I wouldn't, but that's ME, it's nothing personal =S I'm sorry if it makes you feel rejected, but that's not the intention at all =(
 
M

Matthew

Guest
#49
I am sorry, but there's a lot of foundational thought processes, almost doctrine-like stuff, that I strongly disagree with (and I did a LOT of research on this particular topic recently).

And just reminding you- Feel free to respond to that how you wish, and if you feel like it's too far off-topic from the original point of the thread, simply ask me to drop it and I will ^_^
You seem overly defensive on this topic in general so I am going to stop posting about it as I feel I have made myself very clear.
I thought I made clear several posts ago that I do not completely disagree with you, I was to some extent countering your arguments simply to try and learn something from your responses, not to put forward some doctrine-like viewpoint as you put it, which is also not the case.

Unfortunately most of your posts have been repeating your basic viewpoint so it seems pointless to carry on.

All things considered I think a moderate approach to this is the better than a rigid 'I won't take anything less' approach, my views are anything but doctrine-like so at this point I really don't even see where you are coming from.

thanks for adding your thoughts, and g'night.
 
J

Jennifleur

Guest
#50
I think the point of this thread was missed. You can decide for yourself the qualifications for whom you would like to date and/or marry. That is your business. But often, the way that these preferences are being phrased in some posts comes across as condemning and hurtful. Really, I think it comes down to thinking before you post. This thread has gotten way off-track, like every other thread. Why can't we all just agree to disagree, and get along when we do disagree? *sigh* I'm not trying to point fingers or put anyone down. I appreciate everyone on this board, and you all have insightful posts and many times I agree reading your posts. I just feel like we rehash the same conversation again and again.

I can understand having standards. I have my standards as well. And we all have different standards and are attracted to different types of people. I support everyone having their standards and their preferences. I guess my point is, there are nicer ways of putting it, that don't sound so condemning of those who have made mistakes.

And, for those of you who have made mistakes in your past, God has someone in mind for you, someone who is willing to look past your mistakes and be understanding. God has a plan for each of us, and that plan is different for each of us. :)
 
V

Vidy

Guest
#51
You seem overly defensive on this topic in general so I am going to stop posting about it as I feel I have made myself very clear.
I thought I made clear several posts ago that I do not completely disagree with you, I was to some extent countering your arguments simply to try and learn something from your responses, not to put forward some doctrine-like viewpoint as you put it, which is also not the case.

Unfortunately most of your posts have been repeating your basic viewpoint so it seems pointless to carry on.

All things considered I think a moderate approach to this is the better than a rigid 'I won't take anything less' approach, my views are anything but doctrine-like so at this point I really don't even see where you are coming from.

thanks for adding your thoughts, and g'night.
Only 3:30 PM here, but g'night =P

And I wasn't trying to imply you were spreading a doctrine or something. It's just a viewpoint that many people have that I think is almost some sort of doctrine, and that's the whole "The One" thing. There's no real biblical basis for it, but it is taught as truth. I wasn't thinking that was the main point of your post either, but I think that right there is a major "big picture" disagreement that we have that explains our differences on views in this more narrow topic.

Also, I like your approach, you're one of the guys on CC I actually like talking with, even when we don't agree ~_o While I don't agree with your points, your approach on getting your points across is 100% acceptable to me =D

And I may repeat some things, but I generally try to add something new most of the time. In fact, my entire last post was an area I'd never even started discussing before XD I hate when people say that I repeat my points over and over. Tell me exactly what my posts are saying every time, since I apparently do that. And NONE of my posts should have anything more than what you put, either, because I'm JUST repaying stuff, right?
 
I

Irisheyes

Guest
#52
Ok this is a topic that people forget that God Grace covers us. There is some people who had no choice in their life that choice was taken from them. They was brought up in a non christian home. Found Christ late in life. You that say things like I want someone who is a virgin to me you are limiting God to move in your life. I think of Rahab (Who is one of the Ancestors of Jesus) That was a Prostitute and married Joshua one of Gods Greatest Men. If God used such a woman to be in the Lineage of Jesus then who are we to judge those who came to know Jesus and God late in life and choose to take on secondary virginity (for those who never heard of this terms this is used for folks who have had sexual relationships and later come to know christ and choose not to have sex until they get married so keeping one self pure after they become a christian.)
 
M

Matthew

Guest
#53
And I may repeat some things, but I generally try to add something new most of the time. In fact, my entire last post was an area I'd never even started discussing before XD I hate when people say that I repeat my points over and over. Tell me exactly what my posts are saying every time, since I apparently do that. And NONE of my posts should have anything more than what you put, either, because I'm JUST repaying stuff, right?
I meant you re-stated your basic view of wanting a virgin without exception in very post, not a bad thing but it seemed from that like you and I had reached an impasse.
I am sorry it annoys you, I won't say it again :) as I guess we all do it to some extent, but I do enjoy talking with you here, you generally articulate your arguments quite well.

But I will finish by saying that I understand your feeling that the teching of a soul mate is more an idea made my man, but I wasn't really pushing that view although I do believe some things and some couples are meant to be.

Anyway it's coming onto 10pm here so I am done for now.
;)
 
V

Vidy

Guest
#54
I meant you re-stated your basic view of wanting a virgin without exception in very post, not a bad thing but it seemed from that like you and I had reached an impasse.
I am sorry it annoys you, I won't say it again :) as I guess we all do it to some extent, but I do enjoy talking with you here, you generally articulate your arguments quite well.

But I will finish by saying that I understand your feeling that the teching of a soul mate is more an idea made my man, but I wasn't really pushing that view although I do believe some things and some couples are meant to be.

Anyway it's coming onto 10pm here so I am done for now.
;)
I'm glad you understand, and I see where you're coming from too =) I mention that I want a virgin in every post because that's what this entire thread is about. If it's not the core purpose of each post, then what is there really to argue, right?

And it's understandable, you didn't know. It doesn't happen just here, it happens all over the place. I take a core idea, and stick to it until the other person acknowledges that they totally understand me. I attempt to explain in different ways each time, and I'm sure sometimes I just repeat a few arguments, but a lot of times I put out an entirely new argument and then they turn around and say I'm repeating myself and just don't acknowledge my post at all -.- When that happens too often, I stop seeing it as "check to make sure you're using new argument" and start seeing it as "You finally have a good point, so I'm going to ignore it." Once again, I have nothing against you, because you didn't know, and I think you were genuine in it =)

And thanks for understanding me on that issue ^_^ We can leave that for now and save it for some other thread somewhere lol.
 
D

Dread_Zeppelin

Guest
#55
You people make me crazy. Lol I gotta get away from my own thread.
 
D

Dread_Zeppelin

Guest
#56
...and I mean that in the most loving way! Haha
 
May 22, 2006
103
13
18
#57
For anyone who would like to read up on the creation of and the breaking of sexual soul ties please see the link that follows. It is ungodly outside of marriage, and was designed as one of the facets of bonding for within marriage. The sections on this topic can be found towards the bottom of this page located here: Destroying ungodly soul ties and being set free to fully Love the Lord
 
Last edited:
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
#58
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe in your warped sense of life people can't make mistakes and come out to be the most wonderful, blessed, and spirit-filled Christians on the planet. I'm sure you know that deep down from all the men used by God in the Bible.
Are you saying that just because God uses a person then they are marriage material? Nuh uh, wrong. You are basically saying that if someone doesn't consider you as a potential marriage partner because of bad things you've done in the past, then they must not think you are a saved person. But the two concepts of salvation and marriage have nothing to do with one another. So stop making stupid statements about people not forgiving you or not thinking you are saved just because they don't want to marry you. But if you think that salvation comes by marriage or perhaps you feel you can only get a sense of self worth and "salvation" from marriage then by all means connect the two concepts of salvation and marriage into one.



Essencially what you're saying is that God forgives people like me but you can't because I dont deserve your forgiveness. Fine with me! Haha!
This is really puzzling. What do I have to forgive you of? You haven't sinned against me or anyone else only God. I don't see the connection between your salvation , i.e. God saving you and forgiving you for your sins and using you as a 'wonderful blessed spirit-filled Christian', and a person choosing the type of person they want to marry. Have you never realised that there are other reasons why a person may not want to marry a non-virgin?
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
#59
Some reasons why a person may not want to marry a non-virgin:

*The issue of soul ties (as harpy mentioned).
*Related to the previous ones - generational curses and things like this.
*A belief that once a person has sex they are married to that person for life. If that person married a non-virgin it would be as if they commit adultery.
*Minimise the risk of STD's.
*Because they would be uncomfortable with someone with 'experience', including avoiding feelings of insecurity.
*Because of the emotional baggage that person with previous sexual relationships brings into a marriage and the impact that will have on their marriage and any children.
*Because they are a virgin themself and wish to marry another virgin for the sake of starting the relationship on the same page.
*Because people they slept with might still be in their lives , even close friends. This could be hard on the children if they found out that mummy once slept with 'uncle jim'.
*Because 'sleeping around' is an obvious pattern of behaviour with this person just like some people have life-long issues with alcohol or gambling, and starting a serious relationship with them will probably lead to a failed marriage.
 
K

Kay_Kay

Guest
#60
Are you saying that just because God uses a person then they are marriage material? Nuh uh, wrong. You are basically saying that if someone doesn't consider you as a potential marriage partner because of bad things you've done in the past, then they must not think you are a saved person. But the two concepts of salvation and marriage have nothing to do with one another. So stop making stupid statements about people not forgiving you or not thinking you are saved just because they don't want to marry you. But if you think that salvation comes by marriage or perhaps you feel you can only get a sense of self worth and "salvation" from marriage then by all means connect the two concepts of salvation and marriage into one.





This is really puzzling. What do I have to forgive you of? You haven't sinned against me or anyone else only God. I don't see the connection between your salvation , i.e. God saving you and forgiving you for your sins and using you as a 'wonderful blessed spirit-filled Christian', and a person choosing the type of person they want to marry. Have you never realised that there are other reasons why a person may not want to marry a non-virgin?
Don't ever call my sister or her posts stupid. She has a point of view you don't agree with, which is fine, but you're old enough and mature enough to make your point without being aggressive and flinging around underhanded insults. That is disgusting behavior and I expect better from everyone here on this site.

I understand there are some things that people can't accept when they are searching for a mate. I have standards too, like the man must be Christian. Fortunately that is really my only hardcore standing standard. I used to have a lot more standards until I met people with some qualities I didn't think I could accept- and they surprised me.

You know how you say "I could never date someone taller than me?" Well I thought I could never date a guy shorter than me, and in college I dated a 5 foot 5 Mexican- he was AWESOME. He was so awesome I didn't care about his height, it seemed really petty to knock him out of my dating pool.

And I dated a black man. I didn't think I would be attracted to African Americans, but apparently it wasn't out of the picture.

My point is, don't ever say "I can't", because you can. When you meet someone who tickles your fancy all those head-game standards will fly out the window, because when you really like someone you accept them as is. I think that's how God views us, He loves us "as is" and He never puts a "I can't" on us.