Home Sweet... Mortgage...Or Rent. Which Would You Choose?

[PennEd]

Nope. It's part of who you are. Kind of comforting to know there are some dependable things in this world of ever increasing chaos.

Dude. Every time you take a shot at me you come away looking foolish.

Gotta wonder why you keep messing with me.

Just outta the blue you say “ I’m bored, my burger flipping shift don’t start for another hour, how bout I poke PennEd for some fun!”

Please get a life.

 

[zeroturbulence]

People really need to understand just what is going on.

There are several factors why real estate prices have exploded.

But the BIGGEST reason by far, is the private equity firms that have come in and bought up to 40% of available houses on the market.

Especially what were traditionally starter homes for young people.

And they don’t fix them and flip them. They RENT them out with ever increasing rent amounts.

They may not call themselves Blackrock or Vanguard, but they are absolutely subsideieries of these evil corporations that own EVERYTHING. And I mean everything.

That is also the reason homeowners insurance has gotten insane. They own all the insurance companies as well. So there is no competition.

I cannot emphasize enough that there is definitely an organized Global effort by evil men to get you to own nothing and “be happy “.

The more people that wake up to this fundamental truth the more possible it is to stop them.

I have heard this and I know a lot of people talk about it. There's even a bill that was introduced in congress last December to stop these companies from buying up large numbers of homes (Bill S.3402) but it's still in the works. I'd like to know how they manage all those homes. I mean who are the landlords that would be responsible for maintaining all these homes? And who pays the property tax and insurance on all of them? To me it just seems logistically impossible. I mean I've seen tv commercials where someone will buy any home just call the number and they will give you CASH, but I think they are reselling/flipping for a profit after giving the seller a low price, but what do I know.

 

[Mii]

I certainly agree that today, the affordability question is huge. Our first single family house we had we bought in 1992 for $93,000

Today, it's $350,00 . We never could afford it back then, even if we made a similar salary as today.

But with all things being equal, it doesn't make sense to rent. We lived in 2 different townhouses that we owned, and had no maintenance responsibilities. Yet still enjoyed the rising value and equity in both.

Plus, they had tennis courts and a pool.

Interestingly, I was just about to show my step-father his first house and what its current valuation is (similar structure).

Do you have a source for the buyout? I had heard that and it explains a recent dry up of rural areas I've been watching for a while as places that I might be able to start out and "live simply" for a few years at least but they are all gone or want well over double what they were 10 years ago.

These are in rural, out of the way places mind you...

They were much too low though (cost to build was MUCH higher) so it makes some sense that investors think similarly and bought them. It's just frustrating that if you aren't in one now, your only choice in the near future may be to rent OR build and that is something that VERY few people have the drive or the resources to do on their own. It is likely that the old way of doing things is passing into history.

Anyway, it's a sore topic, I've posted about it before. I think a collective approach like a camp/retreat center is viable but it would require the body operating like a body and not just a bunch of disconnected parts.

I detailed the concept a bit here...but it may be about time I stop talking about it in this venue.
#54

 

[Lynx]

Dude. Every time you take a shot at me you come away looking foolish.

Gotta wonder why you keep messing with me.

Just outta the blue you say “ I’m bored, my burger flipping shift don’t start for another hour, how bout I poke PennEd for some fun!”

Please get a life.

Nah, we don't flip them. A grill head comes down and cooks them on both sides at once.

And when I'm bored I play a video game.

It's just fairly predictable that with you everything will come back to a big conspiracy to keep the little people down. It happens every single time, with every topic. If I started a thread about your favorite way to make hot cocoa, you would find some way to make it about The Conspiracy.

 

[Lynx]

Interestingly, I was just about to show my step-father his first house and what its current valuation is (similar structure).

Do you have a source for the buyout? I had heard that and it explains a recent dry up of rural areas I've been watching for a while as places that I might be able to start out and "live simply" for a few years at least but they are all gone or want well over double what they were 10 years ago.

These are in rural, out of the way places mind you...

They were much too low though (cost to build was MUCH higher) so it makes some sense that investors think similarly and bought them. It's just frustrating that if you aren't in one now, your only choice in the near future may be to rent OR build and that is something that VERY few people have the drive or the resources to do on their own. It is likely that the old way of doing things is passing into history.

Anyway, it's a sore topic, I've posted about it before. I think a collective approach like a camp/retreat center is viable but it would require the body operating like a body and not just a bunch of disconnected parts.

I detailed the concept a bit here...but it may be about time I stop talking about it in this venue.
#54

Yeah, that's why (in a completely different thread about a completely different topic) I said living in an RV might be the way I retire. A plot of ground with a septic and water hookup, solar panels with a backup generator... And gravel over the whole doggone yard so I don't have to mow no mo.

Of course everything might change, and probably will, dramatically, before I retire in about 20 years. But right now dat RV life looking pretty sweet.

 

[PennEd]

I have heard this and I know a lot of people talk about it. There's even a bill that was introduced in congress last December to stop these companies from buying up large numbers of homes (Bill S.3402) but it's still in the works. I'd like to know how they manage all those homes. I mean who are the landlords that would be responsible for maintaining all these homes? And who pays the property tax and insurance on all of them? To me it just seems logistically impossible. I mean I've seen tv commercials where someone will buy any home just call the number and they will give you CASH, but I think they are reselling/flipping for a profit after giving the seller a low price, but what do I know.

Again, these are Blackrock subsidiaries that are owned by them. You may have seen on various platforms ads like "I want to buy your house. I can offer cash and quick settlement".

This story is just about Atlanta, but this is happening just about everywhere now:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/3885874291630730

 

[PennEd]

I have heard this and I know a lot of people talk about it. There's even a bill that was introduced in congress last December to stop these companies from buying up large numbers of homes (Bill S.3402) but it's still in the works. I'd like to know how they manage all those homes. I mean who are the landlords that would be responsible for maintaining all these homes? And who pays the property tax and insurance on all of them? To me it just seems logistically impossible. I mean I've seen tv commercials where someone will buy any home just call the number and they will give you CASH, but I think they are reselling/flipping for a profit after giving the seller a low price, but what do I know.

Even 60 minutes ran a piece on all this:

 

[zeroturbulence]

Again, these are Blackrock subsidiaries that are owned by them. You may have seen on various platforms ads like "I want to buy your house. I can offer cash and quick settlement".

This story is just about Atlanta, but this is happening just about everywhere now:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/3885874291630730

Yes I forgot you mentioned it wasn't those companies directly. They are just asset management companies like Morgan Stanley.

 

[seoulsearch]

Again, these are Blackrock subsidiaries that are owned by them. You may have seen on various platforms ads like "I want to buy your house. I can offer cash and quick settlement".

This story is just about Atlanta, but this is happening just about everywhere now:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/3885874291630730

The finance communities I'm in talk about these issues as well.

Perhaps even more discouraging, it's just talked about as business as usual since no one feels they can do much about it.

Many people I've seen there are very heavily into politics and some have stock (with shareholder voting rights) in the companies involved, and are trying to vote against some of the mergers and monopolies, etc.

Unfortunately, it seems to be about as feasible as picking a raindrop off the ground and then sending it back up to heaven.

But at least there is hope in that some are trying.

 

[Lynx]

Again, these are Blackrock subsidiaries that are owned by them. You may have seen on various platforms ads like "I want to buy your house. I can offer cash and quick settlement".

This story is just about Atlanta, but this is happening just about everywhere now:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/3885874291630730

The finance communities I'm in talk about these issues as well.

Perhaps even more discouraging, it's just talked about as business as usual since no one feels they can do much about it.

Many people I've seen there are very heavily into politics and some have stock (with shareholder voting rights) in the companies involved, and are trying to vote against some of the mergers and monopolies, etc.

Unfortunately, it seems to be about as feasible as picking a raindrop off the ground and then sending it back up to heaven.

But at least there is hope in that some are trying.

So this one is legit?

Hmm... Well it worked for Egypt, back in Joseph's day. Government wound up owning all the land... Except for the temples.

My apologies Penn, this one time.

So Rodney, how about that van life, eh? Looking more and more attractive all the time.

 

[PennEd]

The finance communities I'm in talk about these issues as well.

Perhaps even more discouraging, it's just talked about as business as usual since no one feels they can do much about it.

Many people I've seen there are very heavily into politics and some have stock (with shareholder voting rights) in the companies involved, and are trying to vote against some of the mergers and monopolies, etc.

Unfortunately, it seems to be about as feasible as picking a raindrop off the ground and then sending it back up to heaven.

But at least there is hope in that some are trying.

Yes. The corruption is off the charts in government.

I'm not crazy about regulation, but I think they have to do something.

Maybe at the local level they say something like, only 10% of the towns single family homes can be rentals. The rest are for individuals looking to own, and reside in the property

There is ZERO stopping them from owning EVERY single home.

If I put my house on the market for $450,000, and a couple comes in and offers me $445,000 and then a blackrock reality affiliate says "We'll offer you $550, 000, no inspection, and close in 15 days," it will be almost impossible to not take that.

Most Gen Z, and millennials are doomed to rent forever unless more people become aware, and demand legislation.

 

[PennEd]

Interestingly, I was just about to show my step-father his first house and what its current valuation is (similar structure).

Do you have a source for the buyout? I had heard that and it explains a recent dry up of rural areas I've been watching for a while as places that I might be able to start out and "live simply" for a few years at least but they are all gone or want well over double what they were 10 years ago.

These are in rural, out of the way places mind you...

They were much too low though (cost to build was MUCH higher) so it makes some sense that investors think similarly and bought them. It's just frustrating that if you aren't in one now, your only choice in the near future may be to rent OR build and that is something that VERY few people have the drive or the resources to do on their own. It is likely that the old way of doing things is passing into history.

Anyway, it's a sore topic, I've posted about it before. I think a collective approach like a camp/retreat center is viable but it would require the body operating like a body and not just a bunch of disconnected parts.

I detailed the concept a bit here...but it may be about time I stop talking about it in this venue.
#54

I think part of the answer may be to buy a plot of land. You can still get that. 1/4 acre up to 500 acres are still plentiful, and build or get a prefabricated house for it.

 

[Lynx]

I think part of the answer may be to buy a plot of land. You can still get that. 1/4 acre up to 500 acres are still plentiful, and build or get a prefabricated house for it.

Or just set an RV on it, if you live in the right county.

If you live in the wrong county, the city will come by and complain about not being able to tax your property, and force you to build a real house.

 

[seoulsearch]

So this one is legit?

Hmm... Well it worked for Egypt, back in Joseph's day. Government wound up owning all the land... Except for the temples.

My apologies Penn, this one time.

So Rodney, how about that van life, eh? Looking more and more attractive all the time.

If anyone spends ample time in the finance community, (though I certainly understand it's not for everyone,) they'll soon find that Blackrock pretty much owns the world -- and any parts that it doesn't own, it's working on obtaining.

Every area of life is becoming this way. I was thinking of how my grandparent's washing machine didn't kick out for like 50 years. But nowadays, everything is purposedly built to be replaceable in a few years, and/or is put on a subscription model, for a stream of constant revenue. The medical community constantly tells us things are wrong with us, so they can keep an ever-reliant customer base.

Lynx, you've often talked about hating the fact that you can't even own physical copies of music anymore, which is a good example of what's happening. The Matrix movie was pretty accurate. Consumers are batteries that feed the corporate machine. When people buy Apple phones, they also feel a need to buy "Apple Care" (subscription repair program) right along with it.

Elon Musk wants us all to buy self-driving vehicles -- but it will be on a subscription. It's only a matter of time before the housing market is converted to "subscribing" (renting,) too.

I had looked into tiny home and RV living several years ago, but there are several problems with these communities as well:

1. Zoning issues can make in impossible to find a place to stay permanently. Even if you buy a piece of land (and even then, local legislation in many places will say you can only dwell there if you build a regular home.) For instance, you couldn't just park it at a family member's place and live there without making sure the local zoning laws allowed you to do so.

2. If you rent a piece of land or lot in a park, you're subject to all the same issues other renters have -- I used to volunteer with a woman at a church in FL, and her mobile home rent for just the lot was $800 a month, not including utilities or lawn care -- and it was going up.

3. Nothing is built to last and will need to be frequently repaired/eventually replaced. You also need people who specialize/are licensed in this type of work, and they can be hard to find.

4. Buying a piece of land or living in an even slightly remote area is going to invite a lot of trouble. I follow a few channels about van/RV life and more and more people are reporting problems with theft, being held at gunpoint, encounters with drifters out of their minds (drugs,) and some have even had their residences hitched up and stolen while they were gone.

I have friends who are building a house on a remote piece of land in a what's considered a "very good" area. The very reason they bought it was to get away from most people.

As soon as the wiring was put in, someone came in and stripped as much as they could (for the copper,) and now they have to worry about 24/7 security as they are building their new home.

 

[seoulsearch]

Yes. The corruption is off the charts in government.

I'm not crazy about regulation, but I think they have to do something.

Maybe at the local level they say something like, only 10% of the towns single family homes can be rentals. The rest are for individuals looking to own, and reside in the property

There is ZERO stopping them from owning EVERY single home.

If I put my house on the market for $450,000, and a couple comes in and offers me $445,000 and then a blackrock reality affiliate says "We'll offer you $550, 000, no inspection, and close in 15 days," it will be almost impossible to not take that.

Most Gen Z, and millennials are doomed to rent forever unless more people become aware, and demand legislation.

@PennEd, I'm enjoying this conversation and appreciate your input. If I sound a bit elementary in some of my responses, I apologize in that I'm only going on my own limited research.

One thing I'd like to say to encourage people who feel despondent about not owning a home is please don't give up, and keep asking God for guidance.

Although I've never been the type to get into any "real" trouble, I'm also the type who, if someone says, "No," to what I think is a reasonable request, I'll ask God to help me find a way around it. When it comes to money and living costs, God likes to remind me that "Laban changed Jacob's wages at least 10 times," but yet God had it in His mind to prosper Jacob, and prosper him He certainly did.

Two years ago, God literally woke me up and said, "You NEED to start learning how to invest on your own, for both your own sake and for the sake of the ones you love." No if's, and's, or but's -- it was a very clear COMMAND. My whole life, I've been a saver and investor, but a family member always did the heavy work for me. I'd just put money in an account, and my family member would invest it for me. I would try to learn the concepts and how to do certain things, but I could never quite get a grasp on it. I thought it was "too hard" or beyond what I could understand. I was and still am dumb as a box of rocks, but if I can do it, I know a lot of other people who might think it's too hard can do this, too.

God put some kind of eagerness in my heart to learn and it's been quite a journey. And I'm just beginning!! I only know the basics at best, so don't feel bad if it takes you a while to learn! Keep trying!

I had mentioned this in another post, but I read that most homeowners will need about $1500 a month for various things (HOA, yard care, cleaning out ducts you can't reach, maintenance and repair, replacing big ticket things like HVAC units and roofs, etc.) IN ADDITION to their regular mortgage payment.

It's said that the best reason to own a home is to build equity. But even with owning a home, that's $1500 a month that one already can't get back. So even if I bought a home, I could pretty much count on having to budget $1500 a month I can't get back, AND, let's say $1500 for the mortgage payment itself.

$3000 is a heck of a lot of money, especially when that doesn't count food or other living expenses. But let's just say it was an amount I thought I could actually could afford and figured a budget of needing $3000 a month JUST for housing if I were to own a home.

These days, with many houses starting at $500,000 and constantly accumulating additional interest you're paying, it doesn't seem like 30 years would even be enough to pay it off. This is just me, but for now, I would rather pay $1500 in rent (because I'd be losing that anyway even if I owned a home,) and invest the other $1500 a month for 30 years instead. This way I'd be earning interest/dividends on my own money instead of having to PAY interest on it.

$1500 x 12 moths = $18,000 a year

$18,000 x 30 years = $540,000 (and hopefully, if your investing has worked out well, compound interest will do its magic and you'll wind up with much more than this.)

If you were paying for a house, you would pay much, much more than the original $500,000 because of the interest (not to mention all the "disposable" money that gets put into fees and maintenance that you can't get back.)

But what I'm trying to achieve is to have others (even the infamous Blackrock!) pay ME the interest on my own money, instead of me paying them!

Better yet, I don't have to worry about the stress of trying to sell something as big as a home, how much a realtor will charge me to sell it, and how much I have to pay another realtor to buy a new place. Ideally, I would have total control over this money, and it would be completely liquid to do with as I need -- which is something I wouldn't have if it was tied up in a house.

So when it's said that owning a home is a way to build equity, I agree -- but it comes with a lot more strings.

If I had a family, or if I was planning on staying in the area indefinitely and could find an affordable home, I would certainly look into buying a house. But because it's not feasible here, this is what I'm choosing to do instead. I have two other single friends who are doing this as well (and one does own a home, but also invests on the side,) and we have regular chats about Godly money management.

Different things work for different people and I know this wouldn't work for everyone, but at least it's a possible option.

I hope this might encourage others to not fall into despair and have hope, because I truly believe that with God's help, some education, and a lot of discipline, you can build your own equity, on your own terms, and with your own say in what you do with it.

Thank you for reading and God bless! 🙏

 

[Snackersmom]

I truly believe that with God's help, some education, and a lot of discipline, you can build your own equity, on your own terms, and with your own say in what you do with it.

This has been my experience as well. It required me to take some unconventional paths that many looked down on (such as living with my parents while working full time and attending community college part-time), but in the end it has paid off.

When we treat our finanaces as the world does, we end up subject to the world's whims and systems. But when we seek God in our finances we are subject to His will and systems. Everything I "own" is technically His, but I've found that He is a pretty awesome LandLORD!

I have quite a few friends who have taken this approach as well, and it has paid off for all of us. Some even purchased rental property before turning 30, in addition to owning their own homes. One key factor being that we all work hard and live fairly frugal lives, watching what we spend and occasionally sharing or swapping resources when it makes sense to.

 

[Lynx]

If anyone spends ample time in the finance community, (though I certainly understand it's not for everyone,) they'll soon find that Blackrock pretty much owns the world -- and any parts that it doesn't own, it's working on obtaining.

Every area of life is becoming this way. I was thinking of how my grandparent's washing machine didn't kick out for like 50 years. But nowadays, everything is purposedly built to be replaceable in a few years, and/or is put on a subscription model, for a stream of constant revenue. The medical community constantly tells us things are wrong with us, so they can keep an ever-reliant customer base.

Lynx, you've often talked about hating the fact that you can't even own physical copies of music anymore, which is a good example of what's happening. The Matrix movie was pretty accurate. Consumers are batteries that feed the corporate machine. When people buy Apple phones, they also feel a need to buy "Apple Care" (subscription repair program) right along with it.

Elon Musk wants us all to buy self-driving vehicles -- but it will be on a subscription. It's only a matter of time before the housing market is converted to "subscribing" (renting,) too.

I had looked into tiny home and RV living several years ago, but there are several problems with these communities as well:

1. Zoning issues can make in impossible to find a place to stay permanently. Even if you buy a piece of land (and even then, local legislation in many places will say you can only dwell there if you build a regular home.) For instance, you couldn't just park it at a family member's place and live there without making sure the local zoning laws allowed you to do so.

2. If you rent a piece of land or lot in a park, you're subject to all the same issues other renters have -- I used to volunteer with a woman at a church in FL, and her mobile home rent for just the lot was $800 a month, not including utilities or lawn care -- and it was going up.

3. Nothing is built to last and will need to be frequently repaired/eventually replaced. You also need people who specialize/are licensed in this type of work, and they can be hard to find.

4. Buying a piece of land or living in an even slightly remote area is going to invite a lot of trouble. I follow a few channels about van/RV life and more and more people are reporting problems with theft, being held at gunpoint, encounters with drifters out of their minds (drugs,) and some have even had their residences hitched up and stolen while they were gone.

I have friends who are building a house on a remote piece of land in a what's considered a "very good" area. The very reason they bought it was to get away from most people.

As soon as the wiring was put in, someone came in and stripped as much as they could (for the copper,) and now they have to worry about 24/7 security as they are building their new home.

About self-driving cars: I can actually see where that would make a lot of sense. Upkeep would be insane on them if you were freelancing it, and imagine trying to take a self-driving car to your local mechanic who has been working on Fords and Chevys all his life. I would definitely want a subscription model if I had a self-driving car.

About RV crime: that is exactly why I would want to live out in the middle of nowhere, where nobody knows I am there, with a thick screen of trees between me and what passes for the road... Or in a densely populated neighborhood where there are always witnesses on the street. Given the chosen RV style of living, I'm thinking out in the boonies is more practical. Hard to get people to accept an RV lifestyle in their really tight, really crowded neighborhood.

 

[Mii]

Yeah, that's why (in a completely different thread about a completely different topic) I said living in an RV might be the way I retire. A plot of ground with a septic and water hookup, solar panels with a backup generator... And gravel over the whole doggone yard so I don't have to mow no mo.

Of course everything might change, and probably will, dramatically, before I retire in about 20 years. But right now dat RV life looking pretty sweet.

The problem is the price of land is increasing dramatically and zoning. it's difficult to find a place where you are legally allowed to just put an RV up to live in as a permanent dwelling place.

Housing isn't the only thing that has increased. A quality RV isn't an easy find for a reasonable price range.

Septic - 20k
Junker RV - 20k
Land ???

If it were a co-op then it would be feasible because all of the major costs would be shared...I think you get plenty of privacy on a quarter of an acre.

 

[Mii]

@PennEd
I had mentioned this in another post, but I read that most homeowners will need about $1500 a month for various things (HOA, yard care, cleaning out ducts you can't reach, maintenance and repair, replacing big ticket things like HVAC units and roofs, etc.) IN ADDITION to their regular mortgage payment.

I guess if you want to keep the house in pristine condition all the time, upgrading with every trend (like fashion)...which I'm not saying is a terrible idea if you needed to be able to sell at a moments notice. Pros and cons.

$500/month seems incredibly generous for the big ticket items. People overpay for the small things and it does indeed add up. I get it if you are infirm or elderly but I think people should at least attempt to reach out through the grapevine if they need work done.

Paying close attention to the bottom line or finding a person that is knowledgeable will prevent "panic buying" on services.

 

[Lynx]

The problem is the price of land is increasing dramatically and zoning. it's difficult to find a place where you are legally allowed to just put an RV up to live in as a permanent dwelling place.

Housing isn't the only thing that has increased. A quality RV isn't an easy find for a reasonable price range.

Septic - 20k
Junker RV - 20k
Land ???

If it were a co-op then it would be feasible because all of the major costs would be shared...I think you get plenty of privacy on a quarter of an acre.

Yeah I know, no way I could finance that right now. I'm talking about when I retire. I have a little retirement fund that will come in useful for that.