If you can't even decide for yourself whether or not you like someone, why bother?

[Liamson]

If I am a mature Christian with with an understanding of wisdom and the practical application of the principles listed in the Bible, I can make choices throughout my day and my life that reflect the character and the Nature of my relationship with Christ.

This means that I can see the Biblical virtue of a statement whether written by Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Barack Obama or Shane Claiborne. Or, by the same token I can reject what they are saying as irrelevant propaganda. Each thing a person says is either uplifting, truth, irrelevant, meaningless, or perhaps profound. Either way, its how I choose to process the information that makes me an individual human being.

I don't need someone else to tell me what I ought to feel, what I should be thinking or how outraged I am supposed to be at something. This is especially true in the case of personal matters, things that I am directly affected by. For instance, I made Chili tonight, I made it way too sweet. I enjoy it, but its not perfect. This is my opinion on the Chili that I made. It is relevant to me because I am the one eating it.

If someone told me, "Liamson, this Chili is terrible, you shouldn't eat it and should should feel bad." Its not going to change my perspective on my own experience with the Chili.

Admittedly my experience has led me to be incapable of delivering an unbiased opinion on the Chili, but it also gives me grounds to know the difference between good Chili and Bad chili.


Now, if I had made the Chili and said, "I don't know how I feel about this Chili." It is because, I don't trust my own experiences. I neither know the difference between good chili and bad chili, or what it is exactly that I have made. And, furthermore, I am soliciting the opinion of others to guide my own. If they say its good, I'll like it. If they say its bad, I'll hate it.





Do you see the problem we have?

How can someone else tell me how I feel about something?

Why should I let them?


If I need someone else, a sign, or a group consensus that my feelings for someone else are valid, then my question is, are they even feelings at all?

If all the wisdom and experience I've had in life has led me to a place where I have grown attached to someone with whom much is shared, I don't need to convince myself that I am as I am.

Because there will never be an objectively great Chili that everyone can agree is the best ever. But, I can make a Chili that I will love and that is perfect for me.

 

[Lynx]

I made a pot of chili a few weeks ago that everyone at church agreed was pretty good...

As to the rest of it, I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. Have people been trying to influence how you feel about someone you are dating? Have you seen people who would like to date someone, but they are worried what others will think? The way you worded your OP it's not really clear.

 

[CatHerder]

What if I took your chili recipe and changed it by adding more beans and peppers so it wasn't too sweet? Then I could complain that it is not sweet enough.

Or I could order the chili at a restaurant, then pick at my friends' food, sampling the chili of others.

Wait. Are you saying that I don't have to approve of your chili recipe because it is satisfying to you?

I'm confused. And I want chili.









with sharp cheddar and onions on top.

 

[1still_waters]

If I am a mature Christian with with an understanding of wisdom and the practical application of the principles listed in the Bible, I can make choices throughout my day and my life that reflect the character and the Nature of my relationship with Christ.

This means that I can see the Biblical virtue of a statement whether written by Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Barack Obama or Shane Claiborne. Or, by the same token I can reject what they are saying as irrelevant propaganda. Each thing a person says is either uplifting, truth, irrelevant, meaningless, or perhaps profound. Either way, its how I choose to process the information that makes me an individual human being.

I don't need someone else to tell me what I ought to feel, what I should be thinking or how outraged I am supposed to be at something. This is especially true in the case of personal matters, things that I am directly affected by. For instance, I made Chili tonight, I made it way too sweet. I enjoy it, but its not perfect. This is my opinion on the Chili that I made. It is relevant to me because I am the one eating it.

If someone told me, "Liamson, this Chili is terrible, you shouldn't eat it and should should feel bad." Its not going to change my perspective on my own experience with the Chili.

Admittedly my experience has led me to be incapable of delivering an unbiased opinion on the Chili, but it also gives me grounds to know the difference between good Chili and Bad chili.


Now, if I had made the Chili and said, "I don't know how I feel about this Chili." It is because, I don't trust my own experiences. I neither know the difference between good chili and bad chili, or what it is exactly that I have made. And, furthermore, I am soliciting the opinion of others to guide my own. If they say its good, I'll like it. If they say its bad, I'll hate it.





Do you see the problem we have?

How can someone else tell me how I feel about something?

Why should I let them?


If I need someone else, a sign, or a group consensus that my feelings for someone else are valid, then my question is, are they even feelings at all?

If all the wisdom and experience I've had in life has led me to a place where I have grown attached to someone with whom much is shared, I don't need to convince myself that I am as I am.

Because there will never be an objectively great Chili that everyone can agree is the best ever. But, I can make a Chili that I will love and that is perfect for me.

I seek input on matters because I'm flawed, and bouncing ideas off of people gives needed clarity and perspective.
As far as liking food, no need for input there.

I'm not quite sure how to reply. Maybe you loosely knit some ideas together, tossed them into the forum hopper to see what types of reflections others would return?

Those are my reflections.

 

[rachelsedge]

I see your point and agree with it (I think I do, at least, as far as I understand it).

But. I want to play a little devil's advocate, here.

Let's say you really like someone. You have feelings for them. But they are not good for you, be it personality, emotionally, spiritually, etc. It's not necessarily that they are a bad influence (though this may be the case), it's just that others can see that you would likely clash in all the worst ways, unsustainable ways in a relationship, but YOU do not see it because you have feelings for that person.

I suppose their way of approaching it would be less "You shouldn't feel this way about them" and more "You shouldn't pursue this", but either way, they're "telling" you what THEY think YOU should do. Is that a bad thing? Do they truly know what's best for you over what YOU know? Maybe.

I'm trying to think how to relate it to chili...I'll relate it to hot chocolate instead. I like hot chocolate. Someone once told me to add salt to it, and I thought, "Uh, that sounds disgusting. I'm not going to do that. My hot chocolate is fine as it is, I like it this way." But then, I did add salt, and it DID make it better. You don't actually taste the salt, but it brings out the chocolate flavors even more (besides the point, but I wanted to clarify why salt in hot chocolate is a good idea ).

So, should people tell us how we ought to feel? No, and it usually is counterproductive. If I'm upset, I don't want someone to tell me I shouldn't be, even if it's for a stupid reason, I want someone to walk with me through it. So, I suppose that yes, we should own our feelings but at the same time...listen to the wisdom and advice of others. While someone telling us how to feel won't actually change how we feel, I'm not 100% sure I think our feelings are all of ours to own?

AND YET, I can talk myself into almost any feeling. And it's easy to let others do the same. I think there has to be some sort of balance.

I'm not quite sure what I'm getting at anymore. Maybe take my post with a grain of salt (see what I did there? Eh.)

 

[Lynx]

They sell dark chocolate with sea salt. It's pretty good.

(I know this comment is way off topic, but I haven't yet figured out what the topic even is...)

 

[seoulsearch]

I'm not quite sure how to reply. Maybe you loosely knit some ideas together, tossed them into the forum hopper to see what types of reflections others would return?

NO FAIR.

I CALL DIBS AND ALL EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO THIS MYTHICAL "FORUM HOPPER." After all, I do all that well enough even WITHOUT one. (Is a forum hopper kind of like a dingelhopper?)

I'm guessing it's manufactured by Kitchen Aid, seeing as I'm imagining a big thread-producing word processor.

Liamson, I think you wrote a great idea... I just need a few more reads to let it sink in... (I have some experience in this area. )

Now I wonder what happens when I hit the "Pulverize" button over here...

 

[1still_waters]

(I know this comment is way off topic, but I haven't yet figured out what the topic even is...)

I dunno..but I can picture Liamson sitting there, weaving some somewhat germane topics together, which include possible hot button topics like relationships, dating, Osteen, Obama etc......as he thinks..hmmm..ok what happens if I toss that in there?

Although I think the main point of his thread is....If you know what you like, then why do you need others to affirm it?

 

[rachelsedge]

I think part of what he's saying is why pursue someone if you don't really know how you feel about them? Basically, if you ask someone if they like you and their answer, in so many words, is "I don't know, I haven't figured it out yet, I haven't asked enough people their opinion", well what's the point then?

 

[Liamson]

I'm okay with being vague. But more or less my concern is that people, Christians, act as if they enter a relationship in this foggy "Meh" zone of take it or leave it. Asking other people, what they SHOULD feel or what emotions they OUGHT to have.

The remedy for this is to simply look for a sign. It is to divest ones self of the responsibility of acknowledging your own feelings. Because if God can say, "Yep, see Kelly over there... YOURS." *swoosh* So then, then you can KNOW, Okay I can like this person because God told me to.

Its as if Christians don't want to get to know someone, fall in love with someone or discover the natural progression of a relationship. All those doubts and fears, require Courage, Faith and Commitment. These are the Character Hallmarks of a good lasting relationship. Love used to be the litmus test. Jacob worked the 7 years as if it was nothing because of his love for Rachel, and 7 more after he was double crossed. He didn't need someone to tell him how to feel about her, he knew it with all of his being. Love is made of Courage, the courage to face the unknown, the courage to choose for ourselves, and the courage to be deliberate.


Life would be so much easier if who we were going to marry was written in the stars, or democratically elected on our behalf.


"It is mine to give to whom I will, like my heart."

 

[CatHerder]

I dunno..but I can picture Liamson sitting there, weaving some somewhat germane topics together, which include possible hot button topics like relationships, dating, Osteen, Obama etc......as he thinks..hmmm..ok what happens if I toss that in there?

Although I think the main point of his thread is....If you know what you like, then why do you need others to affirm it?

Yes. I agree that this is the main point.

However, our responses so far kind of remind me of those standardized tests:

What is the main theme in the OP?
a) Joel Osteen is a heretic who sometimes says godly things.
b) Imperfect chili is better than no chili at all.
c) This is my chili. There are many bowls like it, but this bowl is mine.
d) None of the above.

 

[Lynx]

So basically this is another "Singles ought to step up" thread?

 

[CatHerder]

So basically this is another "Singles ought to step up" thread?

I think it's more about not being such a marshmallow. More like a "If you can't even decide for yourself whether or not you like someone, why bother?" thread.

 

[Liamson]

I think part of what he's saying is why pursue someone if you don't really know how you feel about them? Basically, if you ask someone if they like you and their answer, in so many words, is "I don't know, I haven't figured it out yet, I haven't asked enough people their opinion", well what's the point then?

Yes Exactly Rachel's Edge! Why do something when you can't even

So basically this is another "Singles ought to step up" thread?

No, no its not. At least I hope not.

 

[Catlynn]

I'm okay with being vague. But more or less my concern is that people, Christians, act as if they enter a relationship in this foggy "Meh" zone of take it or leave it. Asking other people, what they SHOULD feel or what emotions they OUGHT to have.

The remedy for this is to simply look for a sign. It is to divest ones self of the responsibility of acknowledging your own feelings. Because if God can say, "Yep, see Kelly over there... YOURS." *swoosh* So then, then you can KNOW, Okay I can like this person because God told me to.

Its as if Christians don't want to get to know someone, fall in love with someone or discover the natural progression of a relationship. All those doubts and fears, require Courage, Faith and Commitment. These are the Character Hallmarks of a good lasting relationship. Love used to be the litmus test. Jacob worked the 7 years as if it was nothing because of his love for Rachel, and 7 more after he was double crossed. He didn't need someone to tell him how to feel about her, he knew it with all of his being. Love is made of Courage, the courage to face the unknown, the courage to choose for ourselves, and the courage to be deliberate.


Life would be so much easier if who we were going to marry was written in the stars, or democratically elected on our behalf.


"It is mine to give to whom I will, like my heart."

I've recently discovered that I have a whole lot of fear and commitment issues where relationships are concerned. I think I'd be great once I was in one, but that beginning part where everything is up in the air...scariest thing.

 

[Fenner]

If I am a mature Christian with with an understanding of wisdom and the practical application of the principles listed in the Bible, I can make choices throughout my day and my life that reflect the character and the Nature of my relationship with Christ.

This means that I can see the Biblical virtue of a statement whether written by Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Barack Obama or Shane Claiborne. Or, by the same token I can reject what they are saying as irrelevant propaganda. Each thing a person says is either uplifting, truth, irrelevant, meaningless, or perhaps profound. Either way, its how I choose to process the information that makes me an individual human being.

I don't need someone else to tell me what I ought to feel, what I should be thinking or how outraged I am supposed to be at something. This is especially true in the case of personal matters, things that I am directly affected by. For instance, I made Chili tonight, I made it way too sweet. I enjoy it, but its not perfect. This is my opinion on the Chili that I made. It is relevant to me because I am the one eating it.

If someone told me, "Liamson, this Chili is terrible, you shouldn't eat it and should should feel bad." Its not going to change my perspective on my own experience with the Chili.

Admittedly my experience has led me to be incapable of delivering an unbiased opinion on the Chili, but it also gives me grounds to know the difference between good Chili and Bad chili.


Now, if I had made the Chili and said, "I don't know how I feel about this Chili." It is because, I don't trust my own experiences. I neither know the difference between good chili and bad chili, or what it is exactly that I have made. And, furthermore, I am soliciting the opinion of others to guide my own. If they say its good, I'll like it. If they say its bad, I'll hate it.





Do you see the problem we have?

How can someone else tell me how I feel about something?

Why should I let them?


If I need someone else, a sign, or a group consensus that my feelings for someone else are valid, then my question is, are they even feelings at all?

If all the wisdom and experience I've had in life has led me to a place where I have grown attached to someone with whom much is shared, I don't need to convince myself that I am as I am.

Because there will never be an objectively great Chili that everyone can agree is the best ever. But, I can make a Chili that I will love and that is perfect for me.

I agree. By the way I really like Wendy's chilli although it's probably made with horse meat.

 

[Liamson]

I've recently discovered that I have a whole lot of fear and commitment issues where relationships are concerned. I think I'd be great once I was in one, but that beginning part where everything is up in the air...scariest thing.

Thats okay, everyone has their own burritos in the microwave.

 

[gypsygirl]

i think there is an important distinction to be made. depending upon the situation, when i ask people for opinion, i am hoping they can provide observations for which i may be blind to. i'm consistently amazed by how two quite different people can offer some feedback about what they see which can provide me some interesting nugget.

however, that nugget of information is still going to go through my own synthesis. i am going to consider the source whom it came from. and i am going to arrive at the conclusion that i do because of my own assessment, preference and insight about that person. my own experiences. and ultimately, my own decision.

but it reinforces the importance of knowing and trusting our own observations and experience, and as we evaluate and decide for ourselves, possessing a confidence that comes from knowing the bible and it's wisdom. i think so many who want to lean on others for that kind of decision-making support have made painful mistakes, and they no longer trust their judgment. or they've yet to develop confidence through making good judgment calls.

the best way to avoid hunting for random signs on the freeway before proceeding along on a "magic 8 ball decision tree" is to know yourself, trust your experience, but always hold all that up against the measuring stick of the bible. and to have the courage to not be afraid of making a mistake.

also, i think some people are lazy decision makers. they choose a side because their people chose it. therefore, it cannot stand up to scrutiny. i've seen friends date someone inside their circle simply because i think he was accepted by the group of friends. in fact, he was probably a coup because of his being in the group. whether he or she was actually a great match was far less relevant.

i think that is another problem with not knowing yourself. do you know how many people i've asked, "what are you looking for?" and they can only offer a few "not this" or "not that" statements. too many don't even have an idea of what they want. i think it's pretty hard to find someone when you don't know who he/she resembles.

part of developing that confidence is a rite-of-passage thing. i remember being in my early-mid 20s and i ran every single career-related question past my dad. i wouldn't make any decisions or changes before checking with him, because i just felt so unsure of myself, and where i'd been. so, then, fast forward 5 more years, and we were talking, and my dad mentioned that he missed my calls about those things, and i'd realized that i no longer needed his help making those decisions. sure, i might run a big question past him, but that was quite rare.

i think our friends can serve that way about the equally less confident, in relationships. want someone to "co-sign" our decisions because that lacking security and confidence. in the same way that the legalist wants all their rules. because if their are rules, then they don't have to decide. if there are lines, they can simply stay inside them and feel safe.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Just flip a coin!
Heads, u like her.. tails, u don't.

 

[Lynx]

All I know is if I find a girl to date I'm going to invite her to a family dinner before I start dating her seriously. If she can survive the circus that is our family dinner she can survive anything.

I say that half in jest (my family is a pretty good one,) but half seriously. There are some people in my family who are pretty good at telling about a person. I would trust their judgement about a date before I would trust mine. Especially my uncle Fred. He can talk to someone for five minutes and know whether the person is trustworthy. Usually what he thinks about a person matches with my opinion of the person, but when our opinions differ my uncle's has always been on the mark.