Looking For a Traditional Man...

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GaryA

Guest
#121
#121
seoulsearch said:
It has nothing to do with cliques.

I simply do not feel comfortable having with an older man whom I do not know and who knows nothing about me automatically { ? } calling me "honey".

To me, "honey" assumes some kind of friendship or that the two parties know each other, which we do not. As I said, I've also had some other young women on CC who have been concerned about being called "honey", "sweetie", or "dear" by older men here but they've been afraid to say anything because they do not want to appear disrespectful.

I just personally believe that if I'm not comfortable with being called something by someone, I'm going to say so, as I have. { Noted. }

It's a personal preference, not some exclusive club. It's about the relationship and context I have with the person, and you and I have none, therefore, pet names are neither needed nor welcome.

That is all.
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'pet names' ?????

"Good grief..." :eek:

Yes, we are worlds apart -- that much is certain.

To me - 'pet name' implies an intrinsic 'romantic' connection.

To me - 'honey', 'dear', etc. are merely words of affection.

At least I now understand why you are offended.

My apologies - no offense was intended...



All affection is not 'romantic' affection.



I am supposing that you will never find yourself saying 'honey', 'dear', etc. to a person you just met...?

( After all, you have not known each other long enough to have a 'relationship' yet, right? )

You know -- a person who is "down and out", who you are trying to help -- or, a small crying child who has been separated from his / her parents -- or an old, dejected and depressed man / woman?

You have never in your life said a word like 'honey' or 'dear' - to a "perfect stranger" - to try to convey to them that you are "one who cares"...??? In order to show kindness and tenderness? To convey to them that they are important enough to care about?

And the point is -- there are uses of 'affectionate' words like 'honey', 'dear', etc. that do not "automatically" include, by definition, "a long term close intimate relationship" between the person saying it and the one he / she is saying it to...

:)
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#122
#122
PoetMary said:
The solution to protecting yourself from uncertainty, judgement, and criticism is the following:

Say nothing
Do nothing
Go nowhere

Alternatively, one can just accept that criticism will happen and move on with it. After all, the world is highly unlikely to shape itself to me simply because "that's how I do things" and it is "normal and natural for me."
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And, the "flip side" of this is...

A person should try to not be so offended by something someone says on here simply because "that is not how I do things" or "it is not normal and natural for me" -- it "works both ways"... ;)

You should always try to understand what someone means from their perspective.

There are people from many 'cultures' on here. There are bound to be [ at least small ] differences in the meaning of their "speech" based on their use of words that mean something [ a bit ] different from the use of the same words by the one who is reading them.

It happens.



We should all "guard against" impulsive, reactive, thinking until we better understand the intent behind the words we are reading. If necessary, ask the one who posted to clarify...

People are always offended by anything that disagrees with their own perceptions. Learning to understand the perception of someone else takes more 'guts' -- and -- effort.



I have less of an issue with criticism than I do with the fact that some who criticize often cannot handle any criticism... ;)

There are many here who are always willing to "dish it out", but are not willing to "take any"...



As for 'honey' -- I have already said that - a simple "Please do not call me that." or "I am uncomfortable with being called that." is all that is needed to "rectify" a misunderstanding. :D



In most cases, there is no need for criticism; what is needed is good communication. :cool:


:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
#123
#123
PoetMary said:
I guess part of it is that these words are meaningful to me. I don't want to be called "sweetie" if I'm not actually sweet to someone.
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An alternative viewpoint...

The same words would be meaningful to the man who believes that you are 'sweet' -- that is, "a sweet person" -- it is "all about" what he thinks about you. It is his perspective that determines the definition and meaning of his use of the word.

You may simply say something kind to someone - that they think is "sweet of you to say" -- and, thus, they think you are "sweet" for saying it. How are you going to know whether or not you are "sweet" to someone?

If you "like" the man - you "feel" that it is 'wonderful' that he thinks so.

If you do not "like" the man - you "feel" that it is 'creepy' that he thinks so.

All-the-while, the man simply may think well of you - in a very positive, honest, innocent way.

So, now - in your heart - you have criticized him for being 'creepy' - when, in truth, he simply thinks well of you...

Do you see what I mean about us being offended by our own perceptions?

:)
 
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Olerica

Olerica

Banned
#124
Apr 15, 2014
2,050
38
0
#124
GaryA said:
An alternative viewpoint...

The same words would be meaningful to the man who believes that you are 'sweet' -- that is, "a sweet person" -- it is "all about" what he thinks about you. It is his perspective that determines the definition and meaning of his use of the word.

You may simply say something kind to someone - that they think is "sweet of you to say" -- and, thus, they think you are "sweet" for saying it. How are you going to know whether or not you are "sweet" to someone?

If you "like" the man - you "feel" that it is 'wonderful' that he thinks so.

If you do not "like" the man - you "feel" that it is 'creepy' that he thinks so.

All-the-while, the man simply may think well of you - in a very positive, honest, innocent way.

So, now - in your heart - you have criticized him for being 'creepy' - when, in truth, he simply thinks well of you...

Do you see what I mean about us being offended by our own perceptions?

:)
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This is actually rather insightful... I can't speak from any other perspective but my own.
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#126
#126
Good communication comes from the effective conveyance of thoughts and ideas from one mind to another.

Our own perceptions can sometimes get in the way of obtaining a proper understanding of another person's perceptions.

:)
 
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Olerica

Olerica

Banned
#127
Apr 15, 2014
2,050
38
0
#127
GaryA said:
And this is one of the things we must remember when we are listening to someone else speak.

:)
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While true, I do make a practice to seek to understand. I do try and read/review my words and anticipate how they might land on the person I am speaking with or the audience who is being addressed. In communicating, effective communicators seek to understand and be understood.

Gently, some of the women here have expressed how they would prefer to be approached. Being kind and deferring to them, looking at things from their perspective... eh, I'm not going to lecture.

I see both sides of this, neither 'side' or party intended to hurt, both want to be heard, frustration rise and... etc.
 
seoulsearch

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
#128
May 23, 2009
16,432
5,378
113
#128
My whole take on it is simply that if I say, "Don't call me honey," then don't.

It doesn't matter what the reason is behind it. Gary seems to be saying that he has the right to call me whatever chooses and that I should accept and be flattered by it.

No, and no, but thank you anyway.

*shrug*

That's my only point. Please don't call me "honey". I realize you might mean it in a good way but it doesn't matter to me. I'm asking you specifically not to do it, therefore, you shouldn't insist that you have the right to do so. Whatever you choose is your own business. Whether or not I accept being called that by you is mine.

I realize I sound cold to some people but my point is simply this: I do not want older men I do not know calling me "honey", "dear", or "sweetie". That's all. Anyone should have a right to say, "Please don't call me that," for any reason, even if they allow other people to call them those things for their own reasons. I understand there might be good intentions but if I say, Please don't, then don't. No big deal.

It's up to him whether or not he heeds the request.

But it doesn't mean I have to accept it or feel positively about it if he continues.
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#129
#129
Olerica said:
While true, I do make a practice to seek to understand. I do try and read/review my words and anticipate how they might land on the person I am speaking with or the audience who is being addressed. In communicating, effective communicators seek to understand and be understood. { Yes! }

Gently, some of the women here have expressed how they would prefer to be approached. Being kind and deferring to them, looking at things from their perspective... eh, I'm not going to lecture. { I try to do this always - being kind, and trying to see things from their perspective. }

I see both sides of this, neither 'side' or party intended to hurt, both want to be heard, frustration rise and... etc.
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However, there are some here who would / will be offended if, to use the on-going example, a man calls someone else 'honey', 'dear', etc. -- when the woman to whom it is addressed actually enjoys the affection given.

"I promise you this is true."

Do you see what I mean about us being offended by our own perceptions?

:)
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#130
#130
seoulsearch said:
My whole take on it is simply that if I say, "Don't call me honey," then don't.

It doesn't matter what the reason is behind it. Gary seems to be saying that he has the right to call me whatever chooses and that I should accept and be flattered by it.

No, and no, but thank you anyway.

*shrug*

That's my only point. Please don't call me "honey". I realize you might mean it in a good way but it doesn't matter to me. I'm asking you specifically not to do it, therefore, you shouldn't insist that you have the right to do so. Whatever you choose is your own business. Whether or not I accept being called that by you is mine.

I realize I sound cold to some people but my point is simply this: I do not want older men I do not know calling me "honey", "dear", or "sweetie". That's all. Anyone should have a right to say, "Please don't call me that," for any reason, even if they allow other people to call them those things for their own reasons. I understand there might be good intentions but if I say, Please don't, then don't. No big deal.

It's up to him whether or not he heeds the request.

But it doesn't mean I have to accept it or feel positively about it if he continues.
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Hehe im sorry this is getting funny :D
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#131
#131
seoulsearch said:
My whole take on it is simply that if I say, "Don't call me honey," then don't. { "Done." - I have already said so. }

It doesn't matter what the reason is behind it. Gary seems to be saying that he has the right to call me whatever chooses and that I should accept and be flattered by it. { No. Absolutely not! I am not saying anything even remotely similar to that... }

No, and no, but thank you anyway.

*shrug*

That's my only point. Please don't call me "honey". I realize you might mean it in a good way but it doesn't matter to me. I'm asking you specifically not to do it, therefore, you shouldn't insist that you have the right to do so. Whatever you choose is your own business. Whether or not I accept being called that by you is mine.

I realize I sound cold to some people but my point is simply this: I do not want older men I do not know calling me "honey", "dear", or "sweetie". That's all. Anyone should have a right to say, "Please don't call me that," for any reason, even if they allow other people to call them those things for their own reasons. I understand there might be good intentions but if I say, Please don't, then don't. No big deal.

It's up to him whether or not he heeds the request.

But it doesn't mean I have to accept it or feel positively about it if he continues.
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You need not worry -- I have no intention of continuing the use of any "words of affection" towards you. That was "settled" many posts ago.

I accept it without offense or grudge. I am more than happy to comply with your request. :D


It is [ "pretty much" ] the last thing I would ever want to do [ on CC ] ---- make a woman feel 'uncomfortable' with me...


Will you now accept what I have said? Can we 'move on'...?


My [ 'continued' ] "thoughts on the subject" are merely that ( partially, if not mostly, "prompted" by other people's comments ).

I am not trying to change your mind about anything. I am simply discussing the subject - trying to convey my thoughts and perceptions - like anyone else.

:)
 
phil38111

phil38111

Banned
#133
Feb 21, 2012
414
3
0
#133
A traditional man buys you from your parents with a goat.
 
seoulsearch

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
#134
May 23, 2009
16,432
5,378
113
#134
phil38111 said:
A traditional man buys you from your parents with a goat.
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My parents aren't into livestock, but if you threw in a good set of golf clubs, I'm pretty sure my Dad would at least consider it! :)
 
melita916

melita916

Senior Member
#135
Aug 12, 2011
10,464
2,692
113
#135
no livestock for us either. my dad will take some kind of fancy electronic though. lol
 
seoulsearch

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
#136
May 23, 2009
16,432
5,378
113
#136
melita916 said:
no livestock for us either. my dad will take some kind of fancy electronic though. lol
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So this brings us to an interesting question: if women had to pay a dowry to a mother for her son, what would the WOMEN accept as payment?

Would a traditional man mind if he knew his future bride had paid for a good bag or pair of shoes in exchange for his hand?
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#137
#137
seoulsearch said:
So this brings us to an interesting question: if women had to pay a dowry to a mother for her son, what would the WOMEN accept as payment?

Would a traditional man mind if he knew his future bride had paid for a good bag or pair of shoes in exchange for his hand?
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He wouldn't care -- as long as he could share the rest of his life with the one he loved... :cool:

:)
 
PoetMary

PoetMary

Banned
#138
Nov 25, 2014
942
44
0
#138
GaryA said:
An alternative viewpoint...

The same words would be meaningful to the man who believes that you are 'sweet' -- that is, "a sweet person" -- it is "all about" what he thinks about you. It is his perspective that determines the definition and meaning of his use of the word.

You may simply say something kind to someone - that they think is "sweet of you to say" -- and, thus, they think you are "sweet" for saying it. How are you going to know whether or not you are "sweet" to someone?

If you "like" the man - you "feel" that it is 'wonderful' that he thinks so.

If you do not "like" the man - you "feel" that it is 'creepy' that he thinks so.

All-the-while, the man simply may think well of you - in a very positive, honest, innocent way.

So, now - in your heart - you have criticized him for being 'creepy' - when, in truth, he simply thinks well of you...

Do you see what I mean about us being offended by our own perceptions?

:)
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Well, that doesn't reflect my thinking. I don't really break men into categories of "Men I like" and "Men I find creepy"

For example, there are several male chatters in the Lounge and Bible Study rooms that I enjoy reading or listening to. However, if any of these men called me "honey" or "sweetie," I'd ask them to call me by my name. Which is the same response I'd give to a newbie male who came into the room and called me "honey."

It has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the person. It's a reflection of the closeness of the relationship.

I don't think a man is CREEPY for using these terms. I just don't like it. Additionally, I think sometimes a man is deliberately patronizing when using such language with a woman.

For example, imagine a heated discussion about "Once Saved Always Saved" in the Bible Study room. I present a particular scriptural interpretation. A male (known or unknown to me) says, "Well, honey, that's an interesting view, but here's what the scripture really means...."

There's no way this same man would call another MALE "honey" in a similar situation. The effect of it is basically a kind of vaguely ad hominem diminutization as he presents his view. If I ask him to call me by my name, I'm then subjected to a long lecture on how he was speaking to me "affectionately" and am I some kind of lesbian feminist that I can't accept male affection, etc.

As an aside, I find it interesting that men don't use these terms with other men. I mean, if it's based on affection, why wouldn't they call another man "honey" or "sweetie." On the flip side, I've seen lots and lots of Southern women use these kinds of endearments indiscriminately--the classically Southern waitress springs to mind here.

Anyway, my point is that the two categories you present are not even categories that exist in my head. Perhaps some women think that way...I wouldn't know.
 
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