Masks off, Men

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MidniteWelder

Guest
#21
I think the tragedy and problem is that statistics show somewhere around 3 out of 4 women are sexually taken advantage of at some point.

The problem then is compounded when if this is true, that men who would not fall into the rapist category are still looked at as a potential abuser.
The mindset being "Havent yet but might" etc simply if our actions in some way look similar to a past abuser.
For instance if someone was abused by their father, and if he also yelled the person can mentally link the two into thinking anybody who may simply raise their voice is then an abuser.
I have had women say this to me for raising my voice when upset.
Yet then hear the same woman yell at her own kids.
I call hypocrite to such people.
Ya know that old silly mathematical comparison where they ask something like
all apples are fruit, some apples are yellow, but not all apples are yellow just because they are a fruit.
Some eeks are shreeks, but not all shreeks are eeks.
What needs to be understand is that just because eeks are shreeks, does not mean that all shreeks are also eeks.

IE: if every person that abused a woman was a man, does not translate that all men are abusers.
Many things being called abuse we have endured worse of on the playground as children. and as adults??? we cry about it?
For instance
Abuse is not enlightening one to their actions just because the person doesnt like hearing the truth.

As you said Liamson, some rapists need to be told they are one and that it is wrong
Some women need to be told they are a whore and that they need to stop being a whore if they don't like being treated like a whore. But if we happen to tell a woman that. They scream mental abuse.
Nope. If they can call out a rapist for being such then we can do the same for a woman who is just as bad.

I think many of us men can relate to what you're saying here Liamson
It can be rough, having to prove yourself for having done nothing worthy of being accused and being pushed against the fence to be forced to defend yourself from false accusations just to make someone else feel better.
Being persecuted for having committed no crime,
to be thought guilty until you prove yourself innocent.
Its not justice.
But often, others are made to pay the price for what someone else has done.
It shouldn't be this way.
This is where a man can end up becoming a clean up guy.
He may feel he is rejecting offering someone compassion or what they need to heal even though the abused has now become the abuser toward men in general.
Falsely thinking if she pushes a man against the fence long enough and often enough and if he does nothing back, then he is safe.
This is also wrong and is abuse by a woman and enabling from the male.

Just don't test each other and don't make decisions out of fear that the enemy has instilled.
We haven't been given a spirit of fear.
 
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Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
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#22
This is not about all men being guilty by association, but rapists look like normal guys. If 1 in 3 are rapists, then chances are that they are someone you know.

It's not enough to tell women lock up their bodies like we are trying to prevent a burglary; we have to prevent men from raping. And like other forms of abusers, many don't see themselves as rapists. The "I know you want it" culture (thanks, Robin Thicke) contributes to that. Having sexual assault references in our speech make it less taboo. Referring to women as sexual objects or "just asking for it" plants that seed.

We have this idea that a rapist is a dirty old man or gang member with a gun. Actually, jocks are quite likely to force someone into sex. They are strong, idolized, and not used to hearing "no." It doesn't matter if they can get sex otherwise because it is about control, not desire. Frequently alcohol is involved; but even so, no woman asks to be raped.

This isn't saying that women shouldn't be vigilant, but that is already what we are told. This video is a man telling other men (in a poetic fashion) that they can and should make a difference.
 
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MidniteWelder

Guest
#23
It's not enough to tell women lock up their bodies like we are trying to prevent a burglary; we have to prevent men from raping.
This video is a man telling other men (in a poetic fashion) that they can and should make a difference.
Thank you for letting us Christians know that rape is wrong :)
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
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#24
Thank you for letting us Christians know that rape is wrong :)
Why would you be so flippant? This is a serious problem. A person may survive rape, but they can never be un-raped. And it is something that will change her life forever.

If you could make a difference just by changing the way you speak, why wouldn't you? Or is rape not a big deal?
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
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#25
I know a lot of men have been mistreated and taken blame they didn't deserve. That video isn't about that. It's trying to tell the good guys that there IS something they can do. No one wakes up one morning deciding to be a rapist. They first have to start seeing women as less than them, that women really DO want it or are just asking for it. They have to first see women as sexual tools instead of mothers, sisters, daughters, and friends. That's why men calling out other men on rape-encouraging speech is vital. That speech is what we call the rape culture. It influences potential rapists, people who would be the victims support system, and even the police.

When I went to report my rape, the buff-out cope just looked at me like, "I would never want you, so why are you complaining that a man actually wanted to sleep with you." I told them how I told him no twice and pushed him off twice before being too afraid to fight anymore. The cops didn't believe that it happened. Well, they believed that sexual activity happened, not that I was raped. Because I was able to talk him out of more "inconvenient" acts, they thought I was a willing participant. They thought I asked for it. Instead of filing a report, they threatened to charge me with filing a false report or defamation of character or other such nonsense.
 

Liamson

Senior Member
Feb 3, 2010
3,078
69
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#26
More Than 1 in 3 South African Men Admit To Being Rapists

I'm assuming this is where they got their stats?

Cause "Rape Culture" Seems like a very real thing in Africa. Not kidding at all.



In the US we just get the stereotypical Victim and the Stereotypical perpetrator. "Oh you're an athletic male in a fraternity, you must be a rapist OR you just haven't had the opportunity."

If we said that about any other demographic, people would lose their minds. Isn't that why the Duke LaCrosse team made for such a juicy rape accusation?

But the Video isn't saying that one in three men are Rapists, its saying that one in three women are victims of some form of gender violence or sexual assault, over some poetically vague period of time.
 
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MidniteWelder

Guest
#27
Because I believe you're preaching to the choir here Misty
As if we dont already know this stuff,
We are making a difference by not committing the act you are promoting an agenda for
And in a way we are paying for what someone else has done even though most of us men here have never assaulted anybody and would defend someone who was.

But what I suppose gets me more, is how much more I have seen women be sexually aggressive and get away with it.
But if I was going around continuously trying to spread the message, in a community to people who already know better, how well would my message go over? They'd be like, "yeah I know, you're right, totally"
but then what?

So what I'm saying is, not to be flippant but is there someone else you would really truly like to be preaching this message to?
And if so, why arent you.
 
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SanPedro

Guest
#28
Sad. That "Men" are still being lumped into one bunch. If "Women" as a gender, had a tendency toward violence (which MANY do), and "Men" said... "Women are violent", would it not leave those women who are not violent left feeling accused? I'm not a violent "Man", but a truer statement would be.. "I'm not a violent Human". 13 years ago, my friend's girlfriend slashed my face with her keys while she was intoxicated, simply because she "Didn't like the way I looked at her" (I never even saw her before I saw my own blood flowing from her attack, let alone give her any "look"). When the police showed up (I called them), they tried to arrest me, the "Man", and when I and witnesses explained the truth of the situation, the police said to me... "Come on guy, you're a "Man", suck it up!" The police never arrested her, and told me to leave where the party was (Holiday party). How sad, sad, sad it is that "Men" have become the victims of gender bias. Wouldn't it be better to consider the current situation, and the current parties involved (both male and female), rather than walking in the room with the preconceived notion, and a determination to accuse a man, simply because he is a "Man".
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
45
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#29
More Than 1 in 3 South African Men Admit To Being Rapists

I'm assuming this is where they got their stats?

Cause "Rape Culture" Seems like a very real thing in Africa. Not kidding at all.



In the US we just get the stereotypical Victim and the Stereotypical perpetrator. "Oh you're an athletic male in a fraternity, you must be a rapist OR you just haven't had the opportunity."

If we said that about any other demographic, people would lose their minds. Isn't that why the Duke LaCrosse team made for such a juicy rape accusation?

But the Video isn't saying that one in three men are Rapists, its saying that one in three women are victims of some form of gender violence or sexual assault, over some poetically vague period of time.
Oh, forgive me. I forgot that innocent men are the real victims when a woman is raped. Poor baby.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#30
Correct me if I'm blurring lines. No pun intended.

It seems contradictory to me to say that men are responsible for how other men perceive and treat other women.

On one hand if a woman dresses sexually, with her naughty parts bulging and/or showing, men are told that should have no influence on them whatsoever. Women are not told they should take responsibility for that influencing the perception and attitude of men toward women.

On the other hand, men are told that their own words, actions, perceptions are responsible for how other men act toward women.

So men are responsible for how other men perceive and act toward women, but women are not responsible too for how men perceive and act toward women?

Why can responsibility rest upon all men for the attitudes of some, but responsibility can't rest upon women also for the attitudes of some men?

Now I know I'm treading on some very sensitive ground here.
So let me clarify a few things.
I'm not saying a woman's dress, actions, etc. invite or justify rape.
The only one responsible for rape is the one doing the raping.

But this video and post seemed to be about who is responsible for general attitudes toward women.

There seems to be a double standard in regards to who is responsible for given attitudes. Some women want the right to flaunt their naughty parts without taking responsibility for how that does influence the perception of men. Yet the same want men to take responsibility for how their own words influence general perceptions of women.

There is a clear double standard in expected responsibility.

Why can't responsibility rest ONLY upon the rapist? PERIOD?
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
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#31
Because I believe you're preaching to the choir here Misty
As if we dont already know this stuff,
We are making a difference by not committing the act you are promoting an agenda for
And in a way we are paying for what someone else has done even though most of us men here have never assaulted anybody and would defend someone who was.

But what I suppose gets me more, is how much more I have seen women be sexually aggressive and get away with it.
But if I was going around continuously trying to spread the message, in a community to people who already know better, how well would my message go over? They'd be like, "yeah I know, you're right, totally"
but then what?

So what I'm saying is, not to be flippant but is there someone else you would really truly like to be preaching this message to?
And if so, why arent you.
I'm not preaching to the choir. Sexual assault and sexual abuse happen among Christians, too. I never said that you were all guilty. Men of valor will want to do what they can to protect the innocent.
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
45
0
#32
Correct me if I'm blurring lines. No pun intended.

It seems contradictory to me to say that men are responsible for how other men perceive and treat other women.

On one hand if a woman dresses sexually, with her naughty parts bulging and/or showing, men are told that should have no influence on them whatsoever. Women are not told they should take responsibility for that influencing the perception and attitude of men toward women.

On the other hand, men are told that their own words, actions, perceptions are responsible for how other men act toward women.

So men are responsible for how other men perceive and act toward women, but women are not responsible too for how men perceive and act toward women?

Why can responsibility rest upon all men for the attitudes of some, but responsibility can't rest upon women also for the attitudes of some men?

Now I know I'm treading on some very sensitive ground here.
So let me clarify a few things.
I'm not saying a woman's dress, actions, etc. invite or justify rape.
The only one responsible for rape is the one doing the raping.

But this video and post seemed to be about who is responsible for general attitudes toward women.

There seems to be a double standard in regards to who is responsible for given attitudes. Some women want the right to flaunt their naughty parts without taking responsibility for how that does influence the perception of men. Yet the same want men to take responsibility for how their own words influence general perceptions of women.

There is a clear double standard in expected responsibility.
You can't treat rape prevention like burglary prevention. No one knows what valuables a person has without seeing them. Regardless what a woman wears, it is assumed that she has the standard plumbing.

This is not about modesty, it's about everyone doing what we can to make sure that people aren't objectified.
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
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#33
This is not about placing blame, but realizing that we each have the power to make a difference.
 

Rachel20

Senior Member
May 7, 2013
1,639
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#34
Hey everyone.

Firstly, the video is interesting though I don't understand why it has to be polarizing. (seeing reactions etc)

It's just asking men to not promote and support a culture which makes rape like a simple word.

It's not the fault of all men. The world seems to be moving in that direction. What was once taboo is something which can be easily bandied around, so the shock factor is non existant. Both men and women are evil.

Also, if you notice a culture difference, apologies in advance , but here's a video from India which is about victim blaming. If you get offended, please note that is specific to India. :) Peace.



[video=youtube;8hC0Ng_ajpY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8hC0Ng_ajpY[/video]
 

Liamson

Senior Member
Feb 3, 2010
3,078
69
48
#35
You can't treat rape prevention like burglary prevention. No one knows what valuables a person has without seeing them. Regardless what a woman wears, it is assumed that she has the standard plumbing.

This is not about modesty, it's about everyone doing what we can to make sure that people aren't objectified.


How is preaching to non-rapist men any different than preaching to women, "Stop Rape"

Is is because Men are potentially Rapists?

Is it because we share a Y chromosome?

Is it because "Patriarchy" ?

Is it because a Quarterback "Sack" is actually a subliminal promotion of Rape Culture?
 
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MidniteWelder

Guest
#36
I'm not preaching to the choir. Sexual assault and sexual abuse happen among Christians, too. I never said that you were all guilty. Men of valor will want to do what they can to protect the innocent.
Okay, granted.
But can I ask ya somethin'
If I started a thread titled
"lusting is wrong"
Well, who would I be reaching here?
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
45
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#37
How is preaching to non-rapist men any different than preaching to women, "Stop Rape"

Is is because Men are potentially Rapists?

Is it because we share a Y chromosome?

Is it because "Patriarchy" ?

Is it because a Quarterback "Sack" is actually a subliminal promotion of Rape Culture?
This is not patriarchy. This is not guilt by association.

I am only trying to convey that you as a man of God have the power with your very words to influence those around you who could be potential rapists. With your words, you can start to change the culture that shames and blames the victim. With your words, you can stand up for your daughter and your sister and every other woman who may have to live through this some day. Rape victims with very few exceptions are guilty until proven innocent.

You are not guilty. You don't have to prove your innocence. But you can make a difference.
 
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SanPedro

Guest
#38
Cover your bodies ladies. "If you use your freedom to cause your brother to stumble, then you are not acting in love."
 
S

SanPedro

Guest
#39
How is preaching to non-rapist men any different than preaching to women, "Stop Rape"

Is is because Men are potentially Rapists?

Is it because we share a Y chromosome?

Is it because "Patriarchy" ?

Is it because a Quarterback "Sack" is actually a subliminal promotion of Rape Culture?
It is worldly gender bias and it does not belong in the family of God.
 
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MidniteWelder

Guest
#40
This is not patriarchy. This is not guilt by association.

I am only trying to convey that you as a man of God have the power with your very words to influence those around you who could be potential rapists. With your words, you can start to change the culture that shames and blames the victim. With your words, you can stand up for your daughter and your sister and every other woman who may have to live through this some day. Rape victims with very few exceptions are guilty until proven innocent.

You are not guilty. You don't have to prove your innocence. But you can make a difference.
Okay, i think I see what you're getting at more now.
DO you mean being an example for others to follow? and deterring unwholesome talk when we encounter it(such as in the culture) to further enhance a good Christlike example?
 
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