Masks off, Men

[Rachel20]

Also, I have to say, the portrayal of women in media is horrible. Women themselves also promote this.
It's splashed all across magazines, movies, music videos. Men and women have no shame.

It's like sex is power. . It's all about looks and who shocks the most. Just look at Miley Cyrus and this troupe of young actors/singers/whatevers. The message is to be like an animal with no control over yourself.

With all these things present outside, is it unbelievable that people would have impulses and desires?

Both men and women are responsible for this. I am a woman and I believe in equality fiercely. I don't say blame the victim, but I can't help feeling extremely saddened when women themselves agree to be objectified.

A few lousy men are rapists, and a dozen more men and women are murdering the basic respect and dignity of human beings. They should take off their masks.

 

[Misty77]

Cover your bodies ladies. "If you use your freedom to cause your brother to stumble, then you are not acting in love."

This is not a modesty thread.

Since you brought it up, modesty has nothing to do with rape. That crime is about opportunity and power, not lust.

 

[Misty77]

Okay, i think I see what you're getting at more now.
DO you mean being an example for others to follow? and deterring unwholesome talk when we encounter it(such as in the culture) to further enhance a good Christlike example?

Yes!! Thank you.

 

[SanPedro]

This is not a modesty thread.

Since you brought it up, modesty has nothing to do with rape. That crime is about opportunity and power, not lust.

I made an earnest request, and I posted a scripture. That is all.

 

[MidniteWelder]

Yes!! Thank you.

Mission accepted ma'am

 

[Misty77]

Mission accepted ma'am

My hero!

 

[SanPedro]

Okay, i think I see what you're getting at more now.
DO you mean being an example for others to follow? and deterring unwholesome talk when we encounter it(such as in the culture) to further enhance a good Christlike example?

Yes!! Thank you.

I get the impression that MANY men here are already well engaged in not promulgating attitudes of aggression, power, and control over women. The choir here knows this tune well.

 

[1still_waters]

What's concerning is the subtext of this video.
It's feeding an emerging negative stereotype, and negative prejudice about men.

It's creating a social construct that portrays men as enabling each other to become rapists.

The question asked, "How do men become rapists?"

Answer, "Men through their words/actions create rapists."

Thus creating this social construct where all men are the creators of rape, due to how they interact with other men.

The responsibility for rape rests on the rapist. Period.

When we create social constructs that rest responsibility for rape, on more than the rapist, we in a sense hold the rapist less guilty for their actions, because their actions arise due to other influences.

How does taking 100% responsibility off of the rapist, help protect women?
In a sense, the rapist can claim to be a victim of other mens' words and actions.
And the last thing we want to do is allow a rapist to portray themselves as a victim.

 

[Misty77]

I get the impression that MANY men here are already well engaged in not promulgating attitudes of aggression, power, and control over women. The choir here knows this tune well.

If so, then there is no harm in a friendly reminder.

 

[Misty77]

What's concerning is the subtext of this video.
It's feeding an emerging negative stereotype, and negative prejudice about men.

It's creating a social construct that portrays men as enabling each other to become rapists.

The question asked, "How do men become rapists?"

Answer, "Men through their words/actions create rapists."

Thus creating this social construct where all men are the creators of rape, due to how they interact with other men.

The responsibility for rape rests on the rapist. Period.

When we create social constructs that rest responsibility for rape, on more than the rapist, we in a sense hold the rapist less guilty for their actions, because their actions arise due to other influences.

How does taking 100% responsibility off of the rapist, help protect women?
In a sense, the rapist can claim to be a victim of other mens' words and actions.
And the last thing we want to do is allow a rapist to portray themselves as a victim.

With fewer than 7% of rapists ever seeing the inside of a cell, we already don't hold rapists responsible. But none of us are going to be able to change the justice system tomorrow. Again, this is not placing blame, but encouraging everyone—good men specifically—that there IS something they can do.

By the way, if you think that I am targeting men, you're wrong. In the ladies' forum which is invisible to men, we have open discussions about protecting ourselves and being vigilant. This is just an opportunity for our brothers to take a stand with us.

 

[Ugly]

I made an earnest request, and I posted a scripture. That is all.

I think the point is there are already a few other threads that actually apply to that. It may be better suited to post that in the appropriate thread.

 

[MidniteWelder]

It took me awhile to get what Misty was trying to get across to us.
To me it would be similar to us not just asking women to dress modestly but also go the extra mile in asking the women to encourage each other to not be temptresses or enticers.
This helps reduce possible stumbling blocks not just for the church but those outside the church.
In our case for instance, if one of our buddies makes a snide comment an a passing by girl instead of keeping quiet
we could say,
"she probably wouldn't respond well to that sort of thing and a more respectable comment would be more appreciated"
This could help keep our brothers accountable as well as reduce thoughts progressing into actions.

 

[st_sebastian]

It's always a little iffy for me when I see a title or text that appears to be a blanket accusation of a gender or other group or is phrased in terms of an indefinite "you." When I saw this one on the feed, I wondered in what way the men of CC were being deceptive.

Part of it, I get. Re-evangelization, whether about religious or societal issues, happens so often here because if people tried to have these conversations elsewhere, they wouldn't be given the time of day. This is a safe place where we share vocabulary and can be trusted to usually be kind. We like talking about these things.

So when somebody types up a thread about how Christians... or men... or women..., we all understand that this is shorthand for "some subset of the group I'm talking about and probably not you in particular, but I'd like to talk to you in particular about this." And it's fine. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. No problem.

The problem is when everybody uses this shorthand. When a friendly reminder is one in a thousand and can easily be interpreted as a personal attack on the whole of the sex ("men," no qualifiers, "you," no qualifiers), it begins to take a toll on the quality of the relationship. Plenty of people hide personal attacks in friendly reminders and passive aggression is hard to differentiate from honest intent.

I appreciate pithy titles and short summaries, but when it's this sensitive, it ought to be passed through a filter: am I forcing my audience to shrug off what might be perceived as an attack?

 

[Misty77]

It's always a little iffy for me when I see a title or text that appears to be a blanket accusation of a gender or other group or is phrased in terms of an indefinite "you." When I saw this one on the feed, I wondered in what way the men of CC were being deceptive.

Part of it, I get. Re-evangelization, whether about religious or societal issues, happens so often here because if people tried to have these conversations elsewhere, they wouldn't be given the time of day. This is a safe place where we share vocabulary and can be trusted to usually be kind. We like talking about these things.

So when somebody types up a thread about how Christians... or men... or women..., we all understand that this is shorthand for "some subset of the group I'm talking about and probably not you in particular, but I'd like to talk to you in particular about this." And it's fine. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. No problem.

The problem is when everybody uses this shorthand. When a friendly reminder is one in a thousand and can easily be interpreted as a personal attack on the whole of the sex ("men," no qualifiers, "you," no qualifiers), it begins to take a toll on the quality of the relationship. Plenty of people hide personal attacks in friendly reminders and passive aggression is hard to differentiate from honest intent.

I appreciate pithy titles and short summaries, but when it's this sensitive, it ought to be passed through a filter: am I forcing my audience to shrug off what might be perceived as an attack?

It's kind of a difficult thing. On the one hand, I don't want to be so limiting that people read the title and think, "I'm not a rapist, so this doesn't apply to me." I want to generate dialogue and awareness, to encourage thought and action.

But I also don't want everyone to think that I am blaming them for crimes that have not and will not commit. It's kind of a find line to walk.

 

[Shawn2516]

I'll get right on this.. after a few matches of Xbox.

 

[Jullianna]

I read some of this thread early this morning. It's one of those threads when you most definitely want to "be quick to listen, slow to speak". I really wanted to mull it over.

As a woman/someone whose close family member was raped as a teen, I take it as an encouragement to men to become more proactive in saying that things like (I came across a ton of them when I was looking for friendzone pics earlier in the week) this are not funny:



I have no doubt whatsoever that the majority of the men of this forum would never say anything like this or think it was funny. But how many guys on a regular basis are willing to stand in a crowd of men where sexually aggressive remarks against woman are being laughed at and say, "Hey...how would you feel if someone said something like that about your mom, your daughter or your sister?".

I also have no doubt that the majority of the men of this forum would come to the defense of a woman who was being abused in ANY way by another man. I've seen them do it even in these forums. [Don't think we don't notice and appreciate it guys.]

If I step back and look at it from a man's point of view, I could see how it might ruffle a few feathers...the same way we Christian ladies become discouraged by so many "If you don't wear a burka/If you wear makeup you are skanky"/"Submission = bootlickers" threads. Christian ladies know not to flaunt their lady parts and understand the structure of a godly home, just like Christian men know that it is wrong to speak that way about ladies or to force themselves upon a woman sexually. These are things that are truly not in the life of a godly man. I know because I married one and raised one.

As an officer who has worked sexual assaults (not ONLY against women) I want to say that I would encourage WOMEN to become more aggressive in speaking out against women who DO file false reports against attackers. It is THESE women who are to be held accountable for the attitudes of those who have been burned for showing empathy to women who have later confessed to having filed false reports more times than I, as a woman, would like to admit.

 

[TheAristocat]

It's splashed all across magazines, movies, music videos.

... internet searches, online advertisements, TV advertisements, billboards, internet games, TV series, conversation, manga, anime, stores, books, websites, dating sites, mouse pads, notebooks, cards, posters, toys, cd cases, paintings, statues, architecture, mailboxes, signs, calendars, clothing, sports competitions, vehicles, lectures, art classes, pamphlets, flyers, figurines, bathrooms...

Just saying... If women notice it think how much men do.

 

[Shawn2516]

As an officer who has worked sexual assaults (not ONLY against women) I want to say that I would encourage WOMEN to become more aggressive in speaking out against women who DO file false reports against attackers. It is THESE women who are to be held accountable for the attitudes of those who have been burned for showing empathy to women who have later confessed to having filed false reports more times than I, as a woman, would like to admit.

I was going to applaud you for this, knowing that women who file false rape reports get innocent men imprisoned for a couple up to decades in prison, only to find out the real motivation for it just circled right back around to women again.

Personally, i'm quite tired of listening to women tell me what I should be doing as a "man". I honestly don't think women are so important that we literally have to stop the presses everytime one of them gets into trouble.

I say if women want to stop rape, their best defense, is a gun. Not me pretending to be a body guard.

 

[Jullianna]

I need to fix my last paragraph (silly server won't let me now ) to read as follows:

"As an officer who has worked sexual assaults (not ONLY against women) I want to say that I would encourage WOMEN to become more aggressive in speaking out against women who DO file false reports. It is THESE women who are to be held accountable for the attitudes of those who have been burned for showing empathy to women who have later confessed to having filed false reports more times than I, as a woman, would like to admit. "

I felt it important to delete the words "against attackers" because if it is a false report, they are victims, not attackers.

 

[Praus]

I never said that you were all guilty. Men of valor will want to do what they can to protect the innocent.

sigh..........

The video is a woman speaking to other women about what women wear.

This thread was started by a man and argued by other men . . . about a woman talking to other women about their clothes.

Anyone else see the problem?