Masks off, Men

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Dec 21, 2012
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My issues have yet to be addressed.

Ebben! Ne andrò lontana / Ah well then! I shall go far away
Come va l'eco pia campana, / Like the echo of the pious church-bell goes away,
Là fra la neve bianca; / There somewhere in the white snow;
Là fra le nubi d'ôr; / There amongst the clouds of gold,
Laddóve la speranza, la speranza / There where hope, hope
È rimpianto, è rimpianto, è dolor! / Is regret, is regret, is sorrow!


[video=youtube;mTLF9TIx6lE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTLF9TIx6lE[/video]
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest

View attachment 68345

I have no doubt whatsoever that the majority of the men of this forum would never say anything like this or think it was funny. But how many guys on a regular basis are willing to stand in a crowd of men where sexually aggressive remarks against woman are being laughed at and say, "Hey...how would you feel if someone said something like that about your mom, your daughter or your sister?".

As an officer who has worked sexual assaults (not ONLY against women) I want to say that I would encourage WOMEN to become more aggressive in speaking out against women who DO file false reports against attackers. It is THESE women who are to be held accountable for the attitudes of those who have been burned for showing empathy to women who have later confessed to having filed false reports more times than I, as a woman, would like to admit.
Sometimes things are really just humor that will just offend some people but aren't really that serious on the jokers behalf (Racist jokes are a good example, I've known a lot of non-racist people in my life to chuckle at them.....on both sides of the fence, i've heard white jokes that crack me up. it's usually not serious or actually enabling behavior.....just like your momma jokes aren't a literal insult to a person's mom). The example you gave however.....is something that I can't possibly see as anyone finding as "It's just jesting, all in good fun and no real seriousness behind it".

I'd also like to thank you for acknowledging the other side of the coin, the false accusations. I've personally been falsely accused once in my life. I could go into details but it's a long story. Luckily, the woman who tried to accuse me had sent me a bunch of e-mails she forgot about and I had a love letter she had hand written me for my birthday....both completely proved her story false by her own words. As far as false accusers go, this woman was an idiot.....she made herself out to look like a fool by trying to play that card in my case. I wonder sometimes though......what could have possibly happened to me if I had deleted those e-mails and threw that letter away......How many men that don't happen to have that kind of ability to prove their innocence are sitting in jail as we speak?
 
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ServantStrike

Guest
And for all of you claiming that i am anti-male, I have said many, many times that all people need to be respected.
I never said that here or elsewhere, just to clear the air.


I still think the man in that video was insincere in his efforts. He seemed to me to be standing up spouting a lot of buzzwords without saying much of substance.

I'm a Job 31:1 man if that makes a difference. I get very uncomfortable when men go objectifying women, which takes it a step beyond just being uncomfortable when people are making rape jokes (which I've honestly never heard). I stand there and grin awkwardly and say mmhmm, okay, right, occasionally putting my two cents that no, I don't want to "hit that."
 
Dec 21, 2012
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I'm a John 20:16 man--the risen Christ appeared first to Mary Magdalene.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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How should we change it?

"Two students and high school football players, Ma'lik Richmond and Trent Mays, both 16 at the time of the crime, were convicted in juvenile court for the rape of a minor. Additionally, three other adults have been indicted for obstructing the investigation into the rape, while Steubenville's superintendent of schools has been charged with hindering the investigation into a rape that took place earlier in 2012."
 
Dec 21, 2012
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I'm really not getting why there's an issue in this thread. The video was about speaking out against rape, and getting men involved to be bold and speak up against language and attitudes that may perpetuate the concept as good thing. Anyone who is arguing in this thread is a nitpicking troll that i'm sure would feel differently if ...
Sigh......

Hey, to be fair, i was the first one to bring up kidnapping. So i want full credit.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
I'm left with so many questions.

Misty, what did the prosecutor's office have to say about your case?
Did you file an official complaint regarding your treatment?
What did the officer's superiors have to say for his behavior?
Was the man charged? arrested? convicted?
What did the leadership of the church have to say? Does this man still hold a position of authority in the church? (I'm asking because the individual who raped my relative also held a position of authority in the church.)

Donkeyfish, Was the woman who filed the false report charged or did the courts drop the ball?

Does anyone know whether the woman in the sports video was charged? We see an officer with her at the end, but it does not show that she was arrested. If she has no issue with behaving like that publicly, I can't begin to imagine how she behaves toward those in her household behind closed doors.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Changing a mindset starts with things like this. It starts small and pushes forward. Look at the gay and lesbian movement. They have, through getting people to "stand up for freedom" changed a society to accept, support and even encourage homosexuality. I wonder what would happen if we used that kind of energy, passion, technique and power for GOOD to change a culture.
In today's society where right is wrong & wrong is the new 'right', we would be arrested for protesting sin & be jailed for a hate crime.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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I watched the video. I read all the posts. Then I watched the video again. All this video is is a commercial. It was well executed and directed. But to who & about what?
At the end of it, it had 2 web sites listed. The first was vwsac.com, which was a women's assault center. It seems kosher enough. The second one was White Ribbon, which is a nonprofit organization about boys and men who take a stand against inequality of women. Here's a pic showing the offices around the world:


On this page also is a video about 2 gay "fathers" supporting their son to dance in the ballet

IMO, this commercial is pointed at a bigger problem in other countries (muslim, for example), where inequality of the sexes results in legal rape, torture, & death. When you watch the commercial from that point of view, it makes more sense.

However, when you go to their site & see they have just as many on their Board of directors as they do staff, my gut instinct tells me that this "non-profit" may not be so "non-profitable". Those of you that understand such things, please give me some feedback.

My total find is this: this thread produced nothing but polarizing results dividing the crowd on 2 sides that produced nothing but confusion, anger, & hurt. The commercial was misused, whether intentional or not.

Men friends in my circle wouldn't put up with watching such abuse, so who do I tell? What would I say?

Should us christian guys frequent the bars at 12:30-2:00AM & tell the drunks not to rape anybody? Should the christian women go out at night & tell the "women of the evening" to buy a gun & put on some clothes? Should we frequent college dorm parties & warn them about the possibilities of date rape?

Men have been told to "take off their masks", but what mask is it?

Men have been told to "make a difference", but not HOW OR WHAT TO DO.

If this thread hadn't had a few valid posts against it by a special handful of men & women, it would be totally useless. I still give it an 'F'
 
Dec 21, 2012
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The problem is when everybody uses this shorthand. When a friendly reminder is one in a thousand and can easily be interpreted as a personal attack on the whole of the sex ("men," no qualifiers, "you," no qualifiers), it begins to take a toll on the quality of the relationship. Plenty of people hide personal attacks in friendly reminders and passive aggression is hard to differentiate from honest intent.

I appreciate pithy titles and short summaries, but when it's this sensitive, it ought to be passed through a filter: am I forcing my audience to shrug off what might be perceived as an attack?
"Easily interpreted"? I can't imagine why you would think that....

You made me the subject of the sentences, the one doing the actions. That implies fault.
You seem confused
You were not raped. . .
you obviously weren't with . . .
you haven't ever dated any
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
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I watched the video. I read all the posts. Then I watched the video again. All this video is is a commercial. It was well executed and directed. But to who & about what?
At the end of it, it had 2 web sites listed. The first was vwsac.com, which was a women's assault center. It seems kosher enough. The second one was White Ribbon, which is a nonprofit organization about boys and men who take a stand against inequality of women. Here's a pic showing the offices around the world:


On this page also is a video about 2 gay "fathers" supporting their son to dance in the ballet

IMO, this commercial is pointed at a bigger problem in other countries (muslim, for example), where inequality of the sexes results in legal rape, torture, & death. When you watch the commercial from that point of view, it makes more sense.

However, when you go to their site & see they have just as many on their Board of directors as they do staff, my gut instinct tells me that this "non-profit" may not be so "non-profitable". Those of you that understand such things, please give me some feedback.

My total find is this: this thread produced nothing but polarizing results dividing the crowd on 2 sides that produced nothing but confusion, anger, & hurt. The commercial was misused, whether intentional or not.

Men friends in my circle wouldn't put up with watching such abuse, so who do I tell? What would I say?

Should us christian guys frequent the bars at 12:30-2:00AM & tell the drunks not to rape anybody? Should the christian women go out at night & tell the "women of the evening" to buy a gun & put on some clothes? Should we frequent college dorm parties & warn them about the possibilities of date rape?

Men have been told to "take off their masks", but what mask is it?

Men have been told to "make a difference", but not HOW OR WHAT TO DO.

If this thread hadn't had a few valid posts against it by a special handful of men & women, it would be totally useless. I still give it an 'F'
The site I got it from is for abuse victims of ALL types which also reaches out to the LGBT community. Their only focus is against abuse and mistreatment. I don't agree with everyone there, but we do all agree that everyone should be safe and treated with respect.

I honestly saw no way this could be divisive, which is why I posted it in the singles forum. It's like when we talk about abortion, we address women. That doesn't mean that all women commit abortion, but the vast majority making that decision are women. (I do realize this is an imperfect analogy, but please hear me out.) As women, we can influence the decisions of women who might choose abortions by not referring to pregnancy as a punishment, but as a blessing, regardless how the genetic material came together. We can choose to help instead of shame unwed mothers. We can with our words and our actions make the lives of these little ones matter more than the sins of their mothers. That doesn't mean that abortions will stop, but maybe we can be that difference to change the minds of those who might be at a crossroads.

That is the only point that I was trying to make with the video. The vast majority of victims of sexual assault are women. The vast majority of the perpetrators are men. Men of moral character can help influence the mindset of a culture that sexually objectifies women. Men can choose to treat all women with respect in their mannerisms and by eradicating shaming words and blaming phrases from their speech. (You know which ones I'm talking about. I'd spell it out, but then I'd get banned.) Men can choose compassion instead of judgment when a woman chooses to objectify herself, realizing that it usually the result of a culture or experiences that gave taught her that her only real value is her body and her sexuality. That doesn't mean that sexual assault will be eradicated, but maybe you can help sway the conscience of someone who might be at a crossroads.

If the message to influence the culture around us for the better is divisive, then I guess I'm just a trouble maker.

Acts 17:6, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;
 
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iTOREtheSKY

Guest
@ the OP...ummm has it been a couple of weeks already???? lolz

(sorry...but this thread needed a dash of iTORE)

You may all resume arguing. Thank you for your time. :cool:
 

Fenner

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2013
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You can interrupt I tore, you explained the mystery of the clear gummy bear to me.
 

Liamson

Senior Member
Feb 3, 2010
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I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with the message but, it is at its best a condescending message directed at men about gender violence towards women. At best.

At its worst it is propagating the culture which states that men are the shameful root of all ills in the world, that by our very nature all men are born guilty and suspicious until proven otherwise or specifically taught not to be rapists by parents who need reminded to teach such lessons by videos like this.

The fundamental concept that I despise most is the espoused Gender Marxism. Men = Oppressor ; Women = Victim. That somehow throughout history there is a Vast conspiracy by my gender to subjugate and bend women to our will. That men are by their very nature sexually driven predators, who seek to oppress and use women. This ideology suits an agenda, because no matter what happens, as long as Men are potential perpetrators and women potential victims, there will always be an excuse to beat messages like this video over men's heads.

Its the root of the "Don't teach me to have responsible independant agency, teach your sons not to rape." Campaign. really? If I polled 1,000 men in the US, how many do you suppose would say that rape is sometimes okay? None, because in western society it is universally acknowledged that Rape is Evil. However, so is Murder, Theft, Arson and Trespassing.

So what makes rape different? According to the New Narrative, rape isn't a crime committed by monsters, its a crime of opportunity. They would have us believe that under the right circumstances, normal Men would rape. That was what he was talking about in the Video, that "normal men like me, not monsters" are perpetuating a rape culture.

I will always challenge this stereotype. Because it really does nothing for "equality" Its just a shame campaign. Maybe in places like South Africa, this sort of thing is Desperately needed.


But really, I'm just repeating myself, so I'm done here.
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
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I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with the message but, it is at its best a condescending message directed at men about gender violence towards women. At best.

At its worst it is propagating the culture which states that men are the shameful root of all ills in the world, that by our very nature all men are born guilty and suspicious until proven otherwise or specifically taught not to be rapists by parents who need reminded to teach such lessons by videos like this.

The fundamental concept that I despise most is the espoused Gender Marxism. Men = Oppressor ; Women = Victim. That somehow throughout history there is a Vast conspiracy by my gender to subjugate and bend women to our will. That men are by their very nature sexually driven predators, who seek to oppress and use women. This ideology suits an agenda, because no matter what happens, as long as Men are potential perpetrators and women potential victims, there will always be an excuse to beat messages like this video over men's heads.

Its the root of the "Don't teach me to have responsible independant agency, teach your sons not to rape." Campaign. really? If I polled 1,000 men in the US, how many do you suppose would say that rape is sometimes okay? None, because in western society it is universally acknowledged that Rape is Evil. However, so is Murder, Theft, Arson and Trespassing.

So what makes rape different? According to the New Narrative, rape isn't a crime committed by monsters, its a crime of opportunity. They would have us believe that under the right circumstances, normal Men would rape. That was what he was talking about in the Video, that "normal men like me, not monsters" are perpetuating a rape culture.

I will always challenge this stereotype. Because it really does nothing for "equality" Its just a shame campaign. Maybe in places like South Africa, this sort of thing is Desperately needed.


But really, I'm just repeating myself, so I'm done here.
I'm sorry that you feel targeted by this, but obviously it is not a generally accepted idea. Actually read reports about rapes and sexual assaults. The people who do this are for the most part average people. There is no one demographic. They are from all classes of society and all walks of life. The one thing they have in common is that they viewed their victim to be deserving of the treatment they forced upon them. They viewed their victims as objects, as being of little to no value.

A person doesn't get up one morning and put rape on their to-do list. It starts in their minds, they way they think of others. As humans, we all have the ability to be monsters, but we all have the ability to be forces of good as well. Men are not inherently evil, people are.
 
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ServantStrike

Guest
That is the only point that I was trying to make with the video. The vast majority of victims of sexual assault are women. The vast majority of the perpetrators are men. Men of moral character can help influence the mindset of a culture that sexually objectifies women. Men can choose to treat all women with respect in their mannerisms and by eradicating shaming words and blaming phrases from their speech. (You know which ones I'm talking about. I'd spell it out, but then I'd get banned.) Men can choose compassion instead of judgment when a woman chooses to objectify herself, realizing that it usually the result of a culture or experiences that gave taught her that her only real value is her body and her sexuality. That doesn't mean that sexual assault will be eradicated, but maybe you can help sway the conscience of someone who might be at a crossroads.
Is it not possible that showing a video like this to men who are already doing all of these things might be a slap in the face if you don't put some walls around it and explain your position? Men like say... Christians, who are commanded to flee immorality, control their eyes, and keep their thoughts pure.

This video stops just short of placing the blame on normal everyday men, implying they are at fault for helping nurture this culture of violence. It's lacking in substance and comes across as an apology from men everywhere for being pigs. Some of us have been leading the charge for quite a while that we need to clean it up, including some of the men who have been so vocal against this video

Honestly, I've heard guys talk like this before, and it's usually for one reason only - to impress a woman and get her to go out with him. Real men just do this and do it quietly. When they do stand up, they don't make it some politically correct fun fest. They don't pull their punches and imply that women can stumble down a dark alley at 1AM while drunk (which this guy did when he said that it wasn't a woman's fault she got raped because she was drunk).

They get up there and say "men, we have to do better", and meanwhile "women, I don't care who's fault it is, be careful."

Also, I've got to take exception to this little gem here.

This is not about all men being guilty by association, but rapists look like normal guys. If 1 in 3 are rapists, then chances are that they are someone you know.

One in 3 men are NOT rapists.


See what I mean, this video is garbage, it doesn't even accurately convey the message it's trying to get across. The statistic is that 1 in 3 women are the victim of some form of abuse.
 
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