Masturbation...Is it really that wrong?

[HumbleSaint]

Ya you are right I think the Old Testament says something about not beating up an animal, but I was just making the point that the Bible may not mention some of these modern things that were invented, but we can still determine whether they are right or wrong by the fruit it produces.

Masterbation produces lust---no questions asked.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Masterbation produces lust---no questions asked.

With all due respect, I believe you're wrong. Masturbation can be fueled by lust, but that doesn't mean it always is. If a person claims they can do this and honor God with it, who am I to accuse them of lying? I don't know their heart.

 

[HumbleSaint]

Hey if you want to go ahead and masterbate, no one is going to stop you, but you will have to give an account to God someday, so I guess that will have to be something that you have to deal with on your own.

 

[iliveforHim]

Oh Goodness, someone earlier said we would just keep on disagreeing on this topic, and I agree...I may not understand some of the points of view in this Chat Room, but I'm so grateful it exists so that we can communicate and voice our thoughts with fellow Christians!

Movie, you state in your response to me that if one masturbates while thiking of his own body, or thinking of God, even, it's not a sin. The thought of involving Jesus in that act just,.. I don't know what to say, quite literally, I've been left speechless... However, what if a person chooses to focus on their own body, or even God Himself, and masturbates as a "preventive measure" to keep their desires under proper control? Would that not be a way of "controlling your own desires", as Paul mentioned to the Corinithians?

I pray to God, I worship God, I kneel before God, I sing to God, I respect God, I speak and I walk with God, and feel I have a relationship with God, but never, will I ever, masturbate thinking of God. It's beyond my comprehension. In my mind this act would be like allowing a beautiful innocent baby to view pornography, it's just not done.

Again, we are all in titled to our own opinions, even if we don't agree with or understand each other...


God Bless you Movie, have a good night...

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I pray to God, I worship God, I kneel before God, I sing to God, I respect God, I speak and I walk with God, and feel I have a relationship with God, but never, will I ever, masturbate thinking of God. It's beyond my comprehension. In my mind this act would be like allowing a beautiful innocent baby to view pornography, it's just not done.

I've spoken with folks on this subject many times, and this is what it usually boils down to. They personally don't know how to reconcile the physical act of masturbation with worshiping God in their own lives, so they assume it must be either impossible or wrong for anyone to do so. I believe this "effect" (for lack of a better word) is just one result from pornography corrupting our modern culture. Porn feeds on lust, and corrupts the minds of men and women to follow suit in that regard. It takes what God created as pure and holy, and twists it into something horrible and disgusting. As someone who wrestled with a porn addiction for almost 10 years, I know all too well how easy it is to get caught in lust's trap. It's like Gollum and the One Ring; once it takes hold, it doesn't want to let go.

I will freely admit that, more often than not, separating masturbation and lust is very difficult, especially if someone's first information about sex came from porn, as mine did. But it is possible, and one key to accomplishing that separation is admitting and forsaking the lust of the past. It takes time to do this, and surrender your sexual desires to God. Often times, its scary, because when you've tried and failed so many times, you're not sure if its even worth the fight anymore. Your fallen flesh will rage against the very notion of being freed from lust, especially where this activity is concerned. I wish i could say there's some kind of "en masse" trick to conquering lustful masturbation, but there isn't...or at least, I haven't found it yet. the most important thing is deciding that you want that freedom, and are willing to go through a huge internal fight to get it. Our minds, bodies, and hearts are accustomed to a polluted version of sex, laced with tons of false guilt and shame. When we try and fail, we often feel like God doesn't love us anymore, or that He's punishing us in some kind of way...but what if the reality is that for people who honestly wish to serve God, but aren't yet married for whatever reason...what if a pure form of masturbation could serve as a Godly release, so their desires don't consume them?

Again, we are all entitled to our own opinions, even if we don't agree with or understand each other...

Agreed. Contrary to what some may think, my purpose in these kinds of discussions is not to decieve anyone, but rather to help them get the age-old "Sex is evil!" mantra out of their hearts. In its raw state, every person's sex drive is 100% holy. It can become tarnished, corrupted, or abused, but that doesn't change the way God made it.

 

[StarlitLife]

I heard a preacher say that in proverbs it says you are better off putting your seed in the belly of a harlot than it falling to the ground.

Is it better to have sex with a prostitute than to let a seed fall on the ground?? Its not how life grows? From seed in the ground with rain.

 

[songster]

It is known by most that it is not possible to separate lust from masturbation. Those who have struggled with this habit can certainly attest to that. The argument that the word masturbation does not appear in the bible, is true, however, there are other sex acts which also do not appear in the bible, Pedophilia, and other forms of sex, are also not mentioned. Does this mean that they are acceptable because they are not mentioned? God Forbid!

The term Perverted or Perverse appears several times in the Old and New Testaments. If we incorrectly assume that these terms apply only to sexual acts specifically mentioned in the bible, we err in doing so. The fact is, apart from homosexuality, Lust and Orgies, ( specifically stated in 1 Peter 4:3), no sex acts are described in detail. Unnatural affections, Vile Affections, Inordinate Affections, Perverseness, and Sexual Immorality, are left to the understanding of the reader, but if the reader of these terms is unaware of their meaning or chooses to ignore their meaning, this provides a convenient loophole for those who wish to defend their chosen lifestyle.

If we define Masturbation as a sexual act, we are correct in doing so because of the way in which pleasure is derived, and being a sexual act, we have defined the first word in the term 'Sexual Immorality'. The second word, Immorality, is understood to mean, the breaching of an established code of conduct, a standard of acceptable practices, or a standard of ethics. However, because Christians do not subscribe solely to the moral or ethical standards of unbelievers, the bible becomes the means by which we define immorality.

It is commonly known that sexual intercourse is the act of consummation following a marriage. This act is mentioned in several ways throughout scripture. To alter this act, making it something which no longer resembles consummation, but rather an altered act, designed strictly for the purpose of pleasure, deviates from the intended purpose of the act and also deviates from the intended purpose for our bodies, as in the case of homosexuality.


To Pervert, means:

1. To cause to turn away from what is right, proper, or good; to corrupt.
2. To bring to a bad or worse condition; to debase.
3. To put to a wrong or improper use; to misuse.
4. To interpret incorrectly; misconstrue or distort
5. To abandon what is acceptable or orthodox

When we view masturbation with a correct understanding of the definition of perversion, it easily fits into the category of 'Sexual Immorality' or the definition of the term 'Perverted'.

Titus 3:10

Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is perverted (warped, subverted), and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Psalm 101:4

Men of perverse heart shall be far from me; I will have nothing to do with evil.

 

[lightbliss]

The fact is, apart from homosexuality, Lust and Orgies, ( specifically stated in 1 Peter 4:3), no sex acts are described in detail.

The Bible also states that man/woman should not lay with animals, because its an abomination.

 

[Trina]

With all due respect, I believe you're wrong. Masturbation can be fueled by lust, but that doesn't mean it always is. If a person claims they can do this and honor God with it, who am I to accuse them of lying? I don't know their heart.

I don't think it is possible to masterbate without lust in your heart. You are either lusting after somebody, yourself, or just the feeling you get when you do it. All of those things are lust, and you can't masterbate without thinking of one of those those things.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I don't think it is possible to masterbate without lust in your heart. You are either lusting after somebody, yourself, or just the feeling you get when you do it. All of those things are lust, and you can't masterbate without thinking of one of those those things.

In reference to the bold text, my reply is "by whose definition?". Desiring others whom you're not married to is clearly lust, but the other's aren't inherently described as such. not all sexual thoughts or feelings are lustful, and I don't think it best to keep condemning people for focusing on themselves and/or God.

 

[HumbleSaint]

In reference to the bold text, my reply is "by whose definition?". Desiring others whom you're not married to is clearly lust, but the other's aren't inherently described as such. not all sexual thoughts or feelings are lustful, and I don't think it best to keep condemning people for focusing on themselves and/or God.

Try explaining that one to the Lord on Judgement day.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Try explaining that one to the Lord on Judgement day.

What do I have to fear, regarding my above statement? To the best of my knowledge, everything I've said about this topic has been supported by the actual text of the Bible. Given that so many people have fallen into lust with this at some point (including myself), you'd think that if it were inherently evil God would've mentioned it outright...but He didn't. The issue isn't only that God didn't condemn it, but that He didn't even mention it, either...not once. People can classify it as inherently sinful, perverse, fleshly, etc....but that doesn't change the fact that the actual text of Scripture is completely silent on the subject. God obviously knew it would become a problem when left unchecked, so its omission from Scripture can't be an oversight. He's also no respector of one person over another, so it can't be a matter of having some kind of super-religious training to decipher it, either. That only leaves one option, where the actual text of the bible is concerned, which is that masturbation's not inherently wrong, harmful, or evil. Lust most definitely is all three, but masturbation is never noted as such, in any way.

 

[songster]

The Bible also states that man/woman should not lay with animals, because its an abomination.

Thank you. I suppose I was trying to stick with the new testament, but you are absolutely right, Leviticus 20:16 is a clear example of a deviation from, or perversion of, sexual intercourse, and an abomination.

 

[buckeyegirl700]

True, but there is no Biblical or medical evidence to suggest that masturbation and lust are inherently co-dependent. If that were the case, then every time anyone had a lustful thought they'd masturbate, which obviously doesn't happen. If its possible to separate masturbation from lust, then why do so many think its impossible to do the reverse as well?

I dont think that every time a person has a lustful thought they go and masturbate. I just cant see any logical reason for someone to masturbate other than having lustful thoughts. I do not consider touching someones self in a non sexual way masturbation. I think masturbation is when someone knowingly touches their selve while fantasing about sex, or a person. I believe that a person would have to be entertaining lust to masturbate or it is pointless.

 

[songster]

I don't think it is possible to masterbate without lust in your heart. You are either lusting after somebody, yourself, or just the feeling you get when you do it. All of those things are lust, and you can't masterbate without thinking of one of those those things.

Trina,

I believe you are absolutely correct. There is actually no supporting evidence which has proven that masturbation and lust can be separated. While sexual desire is not lust, lust is the fuel which supports a masturbatory habit. Good post.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I don't think that every time a person has a lustful thought they go and masturbate; I just can't see any logical reason for someone to masturbate other than having lustful thoughts.

Well, i can give you one reason, just for the sake of this discussion. Let's say that a young man or woman in their 20s is not married, and they have no prospects either in that regard. They want to honor God with their lives and bodies, but at the same time they feel these very intense sexual urges on a very frequent basis. Do you personally think that God expects such people to simply "grin and bear it", not knowing when they will be able to fully experience sexual union with a spouse? Sure, they can pray, and ask God for help; I'm all for that. But on a physical, mental, and emotional level, the desire is still there. people can bottle it up, but its only a matter of time before it breaks out. How would that serve as any example of justice from a loving God? If they can find it within themselves, and their relationship with God, to release the physical stress without lusting, how would that be a sin?

I do not consider touching someones self in a non sexual way masturbation.

Agreed, but that's not the situation I'm talking about.

I think masturbation is when someone knowingly touches their selve while fantasing about sex, or a person. I believe that a person would have to be entertaining lust to masturbate or it is pointless.

If they were focusing on another indivdual whom they're not married to, I'd agree...but what's inherently evil about focusing on their own body, or even on the loving God who gave them a sex drive to begin with? I know it sounds strange at times, but can anyone honestly claim its not possible?

 

[Moviefan2k4]

There is actually no supporting evidence which has proven that masturbation and lust can be separated.

Actually, there is evidence for this. Young babies have occasionally been known to engage in masturbation, before they even knew what sex was. If you don't know what sex is, how can you lust?

 

[HumbleSaint]

Actually, there is evidence for this. Young babies have occasionally been known to engage in masturbation, before they even knew what sex was. If you don't know what sex is, how can you lust?

I think mybe you watch too many movies. Are you sure that is not were you are getting some of this information.

 

[iliveforHim]

Movie,

Babies touch themselves, specifically their genitalia, because it feels pleasing to their developing senses, but they do not continue to the point of climax like those who do it for sexual pleasure, it's two totally different scenarios.

I can understand this is a subject that touches (no pun intended) many, if not all of us. As a woman, I can tell you that I have also struggled with masturbation in my past (oh wow...did I really just say that?), but the feeling of guilt I had when it was all over, is not worth it. I knew, in my heart, that what I felt was lust, and in my personal experience, that (lust) is the only reason I would entertain the idea of performing such an act. Others might be different, I suppose that's possible, but I can only give testimony of my own experiences...

My relationship with God is the most important thing to me now. I consider myself to be a sinner, but I try to live my life for Him, and I find it hard to believe He will be pleased with the fact that I choose my own sexual and physical pleasure over what He wants for me, which is for me to live a life without lust. The short-term gratification is just not worth it.

Also, the Bible does not say: "Thou shall not go into a liquor store with a shot gun and take all of the money in the cash register", but Movie, we know it's a sin, even if you can't find those same words verbatum...you know???

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Also, the Bible does not say: "Thou shall not go into a liquor store with a shot gun and take all of the money in the cash register", but Movie, we know it's a sin, even if you can't find those same words verbatum...you know???

True, but one of the Commandments is "Do not steal", and this would definitely be an example of that. My point has been that neither explicit nor implicit condemnation of masturbation is found in the Scriptures; its not even mentioend at all.

As to your own experiences, if you don't believe you can engage in this activity without lust, then that is your choice. I have no issue with stances like that from anyone, but I get irritated when others insist that its a totally-sinful thing to be feared or hated. I think that some Christians believe it not from any Biblical sources, but simply because someone they trusted taught them that way. My mother, for example, caught me in this practice when i was 16, and practically crucified me for it herself (emotionally speaking). I wasn't told why, just that it was wrong...but that only made me think of it as something to be ashamed of, so I hid it from those around me for years, bottling every desire I had because I was afraid of what others might think. In a way, i suppose this eventually served as a catalyst for my now-conquered porn addiction. When a kid is told or shown that sex is somehow "dirty" or shameful, but given no reason, that only makes them feel confused, and they withdraw into sinful habits as a desperate search for comfort. It wasn't until a couple of years ago that I finally started resisting lustful tendencies, and trying to use this activity in a God-honoring way. I don't "win the battle" every time, but my "success rate" is steadily increasing.