On being an endangered species of an endangered species

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Aug 2, 2009
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#61
Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.
(Proverbs 3:5 NASB)
 

Mii

Active member
Mar 23, 2019
202
102
43
#62
Thank you for your words. Allow me to respond though.

My parents told me. I read about it online. And I tried, multiple times. And I thought love was an action, not a feeling. Doing a duty IS love, especially when you don't feel like doing it and do it for no reward.

But here's the kicker. Are we meant to live by faith or feelings? You can't have it both ways. I find this a catch-22. I'm supposed to do these things even when I don't feel like it, yet I should always feel like doing it. See the problem there? Pick one and stick to it. Faith or feelings.



But for the time being, I just have to live with the way things are. But whatever. I'm used to being alone and I'm used to being different. I'm used to being overlooked and I'm used to being ignored. And I'm used to people not understanding me. If people don't want me as I am, that's their loss.

Nevertheless, we all need companionship. And in today's relationship economy of bleak social conditions, I'll eventually have to take the only option available to me.
Well like I said, it's kind of hard to read my "voice" into text. I'll just let you know that while I've had crazy experiences I went looking for them and was wayward in my heart. I've also had Satanic experiences that I was legit forced to turn to Jesus and know him deeper. I didn't exactly ask for that but I opened the door thinking it was ok to dabble in certain areas. So I sort of forced timing in my own life...God IS jealous.

I can tell my story for probably 48 hours straight and you know what it changes every day the things that come to mind and so forth and so on. I have an issue with circumlocution. Something of a curse...

I'll be honest with you about the first statement of feelings vs faith. I have no idea what faith even is. I know what the biblical answer is "substance of things hoped for, evidence of things unseen" In which case I definitely have at least a mustard seed amount. There are plenty of times where I'm quite honestly angry at the Lord. I mean I'm 28 and in a similar boat. A handful of really powerful experiences is nothing for all of the "dull as the doldrums" moments, where honestly I'm just bored. So bored that I entertain other "powers".

Is a relationship with God supposed to be boring? What if I'm the one who's being boring? By focusing on myself too much and what I want, what my issues are, when life will begin, is this it? etc etc. I can go on and on.

What's my purpose in life? Why am I even here? Does anyone really want me here? They say they do but they can't really love me. They can't be my friend, they can't hold my hand, we can't share the intimacy I deep down feel I need to even stay alive. There are times I've been so depressed that it's gone into suicidal territory but where I rest is...hey guess what...God can take me. He put the breath in my lungs, he can take it out...I've asked.

This isn't a command but I highly encourage you to read Job 7. There was a time where I literally felt like no one got me but God and I was just laying there...at first with suicidal fantasies (which end up being rather boring) suicide is boring. NO ONE satisfies like the Lord. No one submits and humbles like the Lord either though. So I just got so depressed that I settled on "black hatred" almost like a bargaining tool and realized "no that won't go anywhere either, as I can't force him with my pitifulness ;)"

So I just kind of settled on being angry, bitter, mournful, depressed, with a large heaping of disassociation and derealization. What's near me? Bible. Alas. So I just read Job because I feel like his story mirrors mine at times. The whole thing sort of lifted me straight up out of my funk. I say to myself...well if no one else gets it "at least Job does". Read what he wrote.

I just reread it but this was one verse that stuck out to me that I still forcefully connect with because who is the God of my dreams? If I pray in Jesus name and believe with everything I have and I still have horrendous nightmares...God ordered it. So.

"13. When I say, my bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint; 14. Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions" Happened to me last night. Do I get it? Nope. Do I also get the giggles, and some of the sappiest parts of scripture just seem to manifest? Yes. At times.

I don't get half the stuff that happens to me. I feel like I'm building it up though quite a bit and partly that's because it's in my face atm. Sometimes I get incredibly frustrated and far away. Sometimes things are so bleak that the Satanic crap that fills my brain just causes me to turn to the Lord because honestly I want to please him. I don't want to be away from him. I want to hear the "well done" despite how hard everything seems to be for me.

You are right though, even if you got a hug from the Lord. It's just not the same. It's deeper but it's spiritual, it isn't physical. I want to enjoy my flesh. I want to show people that pretty waterfall I found. I know the Lord's already seen it. When I look for friends they get turned off by my "weird factor". They love me but I don't think they like me. Even when people have told me out of the blue they like me (platonicly) it just doesn't connect. I want someone to share in "life". To not be alone etc. etc.

I do thank you for this thread because oddly it has brought out an absurd backlog of things that I just stifle. I don't like the publicity of the net but I'm at the point where I don't care.

I had a thought the other day...there was a movie I think called "seeking a friend for the end of the world" and it just kind of hit me. Not the movie itself but the concept. Just a friend. I think I have a friend in Jesus but he isn't here. His spirit is at work but umm...physically no.

So all that is pretty random I guess so take it for what it's worth.

Somehow talking about myself I feel pride creep back in (other times oddly it's pitiful self abusive rhetoric) and scripture brings me back down to earth. So here's one for the road :p

Is 45:9 "Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?"

So I'm thinking strive is different than what is mentioned in Vs 19. Seeking and striving. Two different things. I think I've been guilty of striving and have neglected seeking at times. A big difference it makes although our natural tendency is to contend and challenge. Anyway peace.
 
Sep 11, 2018
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#63
Thank you for your words. I'm glad things seemed to have worked out for you.

But your experience is not mine, and mine is no one else's. I did the same thing you did. I did everything I was told to deepen my relationship with God. I tried for a very long time. But it all ended up being for naught, so I had to adjust my expectations and just deal with what I got. That's not being bitter. That's being realistic.

The truth is, like I said, like it or not, God is going to disappoint us. He's God. I don't have the right to tell him how to do things and no one else does either. He doesn't always satisfy someone's needs just because they ask for it, which is why I don't trust someone when they say God can and will satisfy me like no one and nothing else can (after I roll my eyes).

Besides, what makes any of us so special when we're all just one of literally billions of people? God can tell me all he wants that he loves me but I'm just gonna say, "So what? You love everyone." The problem is, when a love like God's is just available to anyone and everyone, it's not special, or unique, or compelling. It's a commodity. Family is nice, but I want to be chosen out of anyone else for once. I'm tired of having to share. I want something that's mine and mine alone.

Why do we have doctors and medicine then when we can just pray that God will heal us? If sickness is God's will, why pray for healing at all? That's another thing about what I call abuse theology. I hate the idea that God apparently takes away all that is good just so we can come crawling back to him. That is abuse. It's like a man hiring thugs to jump on his girlfriend just cause he wants to play hero. It's an ego trip.
I definitely wasn't trying to equate our experiences. Which is why I prefaced by saying what I said. I.e., I don't know what He's doing with you. However our sentiments and ways of processing the world, our place in it, God's plans, etc., are highly analogous. Even now! Because (contrary to what you were led to believe by my attempts to encourage you and myself as well! Lol) No, things have not "worked out" for me ~she said, resisting the urge to roll her own eyes~ lol.

God has grown me much, but I don't walk around feeling content all of the time. I don't not wonder about the practical aspects of a future potentially spent alone. Or suddenly no longer have a desire to be desired. You state the obvious. I'm not you. You're not me. What else is new. But you're also surely not as unique as I think you think you are in your penchant for nihilism, your tendency to bottom-line things and, after having evaluated life as best you can with a sharp mind limited by a finite understanding, come away with the futility of it all. But our brilliant assessments of the state of the universe don't change anything, alas. Lol.

God is still God. He is unfathomable. He is perfect and good and may never make entire sense to us, His creations. But our inability to comprehend - - to wrap our heads around how A could also be B - - does not negate that He simply is Sovereign, pure love and light.

Anyhow, I prayed for you fervently today, and I'll continue to. We're exactly where we are, the way we are, on purpose, with purpose, and for good; and for our specific, individual good as much as all others who love the Lord.

💘
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#64
Well like I said, it's kind of hard to read my "voice" into text. I'll just let you know that while I've had crazy experiences I went looking for them and was wayward in my heart. I've also had Satanic experiences that I was legit forced to turn to Jesus and know him deeper. I didn't exactly ask for that but I opened the door thinking it was ok to dabble in certain areas. So I sort of forced timing in my own life...God IS jealous.

I can tell my story for probably 48 hours straight and you know what it changes every day the things that come to mind and so forth and so on. I have an issue with circumlocution. Something of a curse...

I'll be honest with you about the first statement of feelings vs faith. I have no idea what faith even is. I know what the biblical answer is "substance of things hoped for, evidence of things unseen" In which case I definitely have at least a mustard seed amount. There are plenty of times where I'm quite honestly angry at the Lord. I mean I'm 28 and in a similar boat. A handful of really powerful experiences is nothing for all of the "dull as the doldrums" moments, where honestly I'm just bored. So bored that I entertain other "powers".

Is a relationship with God supposed to be boring? What if I'm the one who's being boring? By focusing on myself too much and what I want, what my issues are, when life will begin, is this it? etc etc. I can go on and on.

What's my purpose in life? Why am I even here? Does anyone really want me here? They say they do but they can't really love me. They can't be my friend, they can't hold my hand, we can't share the intimacy I deep down feel I need to even stay alive. There are times I've been so depressed that it's gone into suicidal territory but where I rest is...hey guess what...God can take me. He put the breath in my lungs, he can take it out...I've asked.

This isn't a command but I highly encourage you to read Job 7. There was a time where I literally felt like no one got me but God and I was just laying there...at first with suicidal fantasies (which end up being rather boring) suicide is boring. NO ONE satisfies like the Lord. No one submits and humbles like the Lord either though. So I just got so depressed that I settled on "black hatred" almost like a bargaining tool and realized "no that won't go anywhere either, as I can't force him with my pitifulness ;)"

So I just kind of settled on being angry, bitter, mournful, depressed, with a large heaping of disassociation and derealization. What's near me? Bible. Alas. So I just read Job because I feel like his story mirrors mine at times. The whole thing sort of lifted me straight up out of my funk. I say to myself...well if no one else gets it "at least Job does". Read what he wrote.

I just reread it but this was one verse that stuck out to me that I still forcefully connect with because who is the God of my dreams? If I pray in Jesus name and believe with everything I have and I still have horrendous nightmares...God ordered it. So.

"13. When I say, my bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint; 14. Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions" Happened to me last night. Do I get it? Nope. Do I also get the giggles, and some of the sappiest parts of scripture just seem to manifest? Yes. At times.

I don't get half the stuff that happens to me. I feel like I'm building it up though quite a bit and partly that's because it's in my face atm. Sometimes I get incredibly frustrated and far away. Sometimes things are so bleak that the Satanic crap that fills my brain just causes me to turn to the Lord because honestly I want to please him. I don't want to be away from him. I want to hear the "well done" despite how hard everything seems to be for me.

You are right though, even if you got a hug from the Lord. It's just not the same. It's deeper but it's spiritual, it isn't physical. I want to enjoy my flesh. I want to show people that pretty waterfall I found. I know the Lord's already seen it. When I look for friends they get turned off by my "weird factor". They love me but I don't think they like me. Even when people have told me out of the blue they like me (platonicly) it just doesn't connect. I want someone to share in "life". To not be alone etc. etc.

I do thank you for this thread because oddly it has brought out an absurd backlog of things that I just stifle. I don't like the publicity of the net but I'm at the point where I don't care.

I had a thought the other day...there was a movie I think called "seeking a friend for the end of the world" and it just kind of hit me. Not the movie itself but the concept. Just a friend. I think I have a friend in Jesus but he isn't here. His spirit is at work but umm...physically no.

So all that is pretty random I guess so take it for what it's worth.

Somehow talking about myself I feel pride creep back in (other times oddly it's pitiful self abusive rhetoric) and scripture brings me back down to earth. So here's one for the road :p

Is 45:9 "Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?"

So I'm thinking strive is different than what is mentioned in Vs 19. Seeking and striving. Two different things. I think I've been guilty of striving and have neglected seeking at times. A big difference it makes although our natural tendency is to contend and challenge. Anyway peace.
Forgive me if I seemed to make light of your experiences. I thought you were exaggerating. I'm glad you're putting the effort into distancing yourself from all that.

And honestly, Job I think is the most misunderstood book in the Bible, other than maybe Revelation.
 

Mii

Active member
Mar 23, 2019
202
102
43
#65
Forgive me if I seemed to make light of your experiences. I thought you were exaggerating. I'm glad you're putting the effort into distancing yourself from all that.

And honestly, Job I think is the most misunderstood book in the Bible, other than maybe Revelation.
Well there is definitely a propensity in some to make the mundane mystical. I think I do that. I say I think because I'm not sure, it's a journey. Some mountains are treacherous, some giants are ferocious.

I went to a random site and started reading some of the articles because I was curious about a particular media format. It's something I rather enjoyed (a certain radio broadcast) since I was a child but lately it's been feeling "off" and I've been feeling a bit foolish. I don't think feelings are outright lies but they must line up with scripture...that's our guide to ourselves.

In any case I kept going through different articles and was reading one about universalism and a particular fictional work. They mentioned 2 peter 1:16 but didn't elaborate. Since I sometimes put a scripture without typing it out I went and looked it up (even though my first thought was keep scrolling; they didn't make it easy lol)

Essentially Peter is speaking against fables and I haven't read that in my adult life. I ended up reading the whole book and it was just like a "wow" moment for me. That there's always stuff I haven't read, in moods I haven't read. Sometimes I feel locked out of truth and revelation but this particular time not.

I'm skeptical of mystical experiences, although sometimes when I talk about them in person or otherwise I'm not sure people get that sense. There's a false lying spirit out there so I try and be cautious. I certainly don't want to be so cautious and so suspicious that I miss opening up to people.


Anyway it's been good talking with you. I'm down to continue the discussion if you are apt to do so.
 

Mii

Active member
Mar 23, 2019
202
102
43
#66
God has grown me much, but I don't walk around feeling content all of the time. I don't not wonder about the practical aspects of a future potentially spent alone. Or suddenly no longer have a desire to be desired. You state the obvious. I'm not you. You're not me. What else is new. But you're also surely not as unique as I think you think you are in your penchant for nihilism, your tendency to bottom-line things and, after having evaluated life as best you can with a sharp mind limited by a finite understanding, come away with the futility of it all. But our brilliant assessments of the state of the universe don't change anything, alas. Lol.

God is still God. He is unfathomable. He is perfect and good and may never make entire sense to us, His creations. But our inability to comprehend - - to wrap our heads around how A could also be B - - does not negate that He simply is Sovereign, pure love and light.

💘
Ty for that. It's pretty cool to see people have done the same thing lol. Trying to understand God is like...uh you can't. Why not? Because you aren't him :(

but you are you! okay :)

Who we are in Christ as his children is a mystery. Faith not being sight etc etc. It's cool to think about but it's also a nice place to rest in the fact that we are all WIP and we only know in part. So if things don't make sense I sometimes am pleased to just rest in that mystery. It goes on and on and on for me (which at times is frustrating and other times exhilarating). At least dreams are quite different and waking up is also different lol.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#67
Ty for that. It's pretty cool to see people have done the same thing lol. Trying to understand God is like...uh you can't. Why not? Because you aren't him :(

but you are you! okay :)

Who we are in Christ as his children is a mystery. Faith not being sight etc etc. It's cool to think about but it's also a nice place to rest in the fact that we are all WIP and we only know in part. So if things don't make sense I sometimes am pleased to just rest in that mystery. It goes on and on and on for me (which at times is frustrating and other times exhilarating). At least dreams are quite different and waking up is also different lol.
I was diagnosed with hypersomnia about 2 years ago. That explains why I never seem to get enough sleep, no matter how many hours I put in.
 

Mii

Active member
Mar 23, 2019
202
102
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#68
I was diagnosed with hypersomnia about 2 years ago. That explains why I never seem to get enough sleep, no matter how many hours I put in.

I looked at the diagnosis. Doesn't fit me. Sleep is certainly quite odd for me. Sometimes it's like the sweetest nectar and other times like this cloying gravitational field that I can't pull myself out of. Always feeling like I should get up and almost always laying back down (even when I feel like the Lord wants me up). The bible does talk about lovers of sleep but wow...once my brain gives me a break I'm loath to start a new day.

It's uncommon for people to have sleep problems so I can't really connect with people about it. I've always been guilt tripped for "still being up" or for "sleeping my day away". I feel guilty about it.

They can throw a switch and just conk out. Good for them. Other people take pills and go to sleep...I disagree and I'll tell you but I can't stop you kind of thing. They don't work for me because I see it as this malevolent presence and I fight the inexorable gravity until it lessens and then I'm just awake until dawn. I'm scared of sleeping pills honestly. I don't think you have to "take" a pill in order to sleep. It's convenient (for some) I understand, but what is convenience?

I'll stop now because I realize I'm getting a tad tangential. Sleep is SO mysterious...I recall in middle school to the end of college where I was kind of like that...sleeping all the freaking time but always being tired.

People told me too much sleep makes you more tired (which doesn't make sense) and too little incurs sleep debt. It's possible that you have an abnormal circadian rhythm and it could be 7 one night and 9 the next. Idk.

Or perhaps diet. Dairy can mess with sleep. Carbs can make you feel tired. So much health stuff...I neglect the health side of things A LOT.




I will say there is a really cool tryptophan to serotonin conversion when you sleep that is worth a try for anyone :p

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/tryptophan#section4



Random stuff late at 4am so Im going to try for some sleep. Good night.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#69
I looked at the diagnosis. Doesn't fit me. Sleep is certainly quite odd for me. Sometimes it's like the sweetest nectar and other times like this cloying gravitational field that I can't pull myself out of. Always feeling like I should get up and almost always laying back down (even when I feel like the Lord wants me up). The bible does talk about lovers of sleep but wow...once my brain gives me a break I'm loath to start a new day.

It's uncommon for people to have sleep problems so I can't really connect with people about it. I've always been guilt tripped for "still being up" or for "sleeping my day away". I feel guilty about it.

They can throw a switch and just conk out. Good for them. Other people take pills and go to sleep...I disagree and I'll tell you but I can't stop you kind of thing. They don't work for me because I see it as this malevolent presence and I fight the inexorable gravity until it lessens and then I'm just awake until dawn. I'm scared of sleeping pills honestly. I don't think you have to "take" a pill in order to sleep. It's convenient (for some) I understand, but what is convenience?

I'll stop now because I realize I'm getting a tad tangential. Sleep is SO mysterious...I recall in middle school to the end of college where I was kind of like that...sleeping all the freaking time but always being tired.

People told me too much sleep makes you more tired (which doesn't make sense) and too little incurs sleep debt. It's possible that you have an abnormal circadian rhythm and it could be 7 one night and 9 the next. Idk.

Or perhaps diet. Dairy can mess with sleep. Carbs can make you feel tired. So much health stuff...I neglect the health side of things A LOT.




I will say there is a really cool tryptophan to serotonin conversion when you sleep that is worth a try for anyone :p

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/tryptophan#section4



Random stuff late at 4am so Im going to try for some sleep. Good night.
Sleeping pills are medicine. That's all. They're not for everyone but I have relatives who takes them otherwise they won't be able to sleep. I don't take insulin shots cause I don't have diabetes. Why must we limit God to miraculously curing people rather than just working through the resources he's already given us?
 

Mii

Active member
Mar 23, 2019
202
102
43
#70
Sleeping pills are medicine. That's all. They're not for everyone but I have relatives who takes them otherwise they won't be able to sleep. I don't take insulin shots cause I don't have diabetes. Why must we limit God to miraculously curing people rather than just working through the resources he's already given us?
I guess because pharmakeia is a thing in the NT. That's one of my biggest hold ups. There are plenty of other natural remedies to sleep that require discipline. A pill growing up for me was the easy way out...I always felt like there was something off about it. Slight conviction (same way I feel about films in general).

It wasn't until the last 5 years or so where it really came alive as to what fruit certain things produce. To be fair though, if they have no qualms in their spirit about it and know about the Pharmakeia angle and what the word says about that and still have no qualms I can only say that's on them.

If I were being pragmatic that God WILL work through drugs...I'd say to stay away from hypnotics and antichollinergics. Use light "pushes" like lavender tea or melatonin. Stretches before bed. Aroma therapy. Sleep conducive diet. try that first.

I'm on the fence though about where God sits about substances. Not just illegal stuff mind you, legal and herbal. Long topic though. That's actually something I want to write a book about lol. Some things haven't affected me really other than slight calming. Think Lavender tea. Yet coffee can completely change my day if my tolerance is low.

What use does coffee have besides to drink? What use is chocolate besides pleasure?


I'm going to try to reply with just a few sentences next time ;)
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#71
I guess because pharmakeia is a thing in the NT. That's one of my biggest hold ups. There are plenty of other natural remedies to sleep that require discipline. A pill growing up for me was the easy way out...I always felt like there was something off about it. Slight conviction (same way I feel about films in general).

It wasn't until the last 5 years or so where it really came alive as to what fruit certain things produce. To be fair though, if they have no qualms in their spirit about it and know about the Pharmakeia angle and what the word says about that and still have no qualms I can only say that's on them.

If I were being pragmatic that God WILL work through drugs...I'd say to stay away from hypnotics and antichollinergics. Use light "pushes" like lavender tea or melatonin. Stretches before bed. Aroma therapy. Sleep conducive diet. try that first.

I'm on the fence though about where God sits about substances. Not just illegal stuff mind you, legal and herbal. Long topic though. That's actually something I want to write a book about lol. Some things haven't affected me really other than slight calming. Think Lavender tea. Yet coffee can completely change my day if my tolerance is low.

What use does coffee have besides to drink? What use is chocolate besides pleasure?


I'm going to try to reply with just a few sentences next time ;)
Well even if you do have convictions about things like that, you don't need to get legalistic and prescribe that (no pun intended) to others. Luke the Evangelist was a physician. And you gotta remember, Ancient Greek was much more complex and diverse than modern day English.

I'd just say educate yourself. Most medicines are not hypnotics and I honestly don't know where you get the idea.

I have relatives who are part of this Pentecostal branch who don't believe women should wear pants. That's their conviction, and they fortunately don't press it on their children. The Bible says one man may feel free to eat meat and another man may not, but neither is right or wrong and shouldn't tell the other they're right or wrong.

And by the way, eating chocolate in a certain amount can actually add years to your life.
 

Mii

Active member
Mar 23, 2019
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#72
Well I originally typed that the point is not to be legalistic. Arguments like not wearing pants or what my aunt (who is a missionary) had an issue with was one of the members of their team got his funding from a baptist denomination that thought drums were satanic so they couldn't use drums in their church services are moot. There is no scriptural support for things like that other than the weaker brethren argument and what is worship unto the Lord in regards to why one abstains and the other does not. It comes down to a heart issue. I can provide scripture references to the above if you'd like

I don't want to get into a drug discussion but it's not clear cut, I will give you that. When it comes to sleeping pills it's a different category. An honest pharmacist will tell you that certain ones are risky even though commonly prescribed and the mechanism of action may be known but how the host of side effects occurs or deadly behaviors occur (such as sleep driving) or somnambulism is also unknown.

You can experience sleep walking without substances too :p Just not sleep driving. So a drug that is known to produce this effect tells you something.

There's a wild card factor that cannot be overlooked.

Btw I mentioned both hypnotics and antichollinergics. Almost every sleeping pill has some effect on acetylcholine which is dangerous.

This is just a randomly searched article. I'm sure there are scholarly articles out there also. Easy to find things with simple questions.

https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/are-sleeping-pills-safe/

Mostly it's just to get the discussion going. My mother was pretty firm in her convictions that she did everything she could and drugs were a last resort. It should take serious consideration.

There are things you think are poorly understood and there things I think are poorly understood. Legalism is one of them lol. I will make you aware that the "error of balaam" which is talked about several times in the NT and given a solid 4 chapters in the OT (pretty sure) is something that doesn't enter into a lot of people's discussions but I would encourage you to study a bit on it. A friendly encouragement. I was pretty stuck thinking I knew everything there was to know and in a low point I realized how pretentious that was. A lot of things opened up to me after that. Questions that I didn't think scripture had anything to say about. There are some things in scripture that are obscure. Am curious what you think.

You mentioned before about not being a surface level Christian. Cool. I would hazard that there are many people that aren't here either. We ALL have much to learn. It takes being open to it though. I realize you can't force openness but you can force new information into an already active thought process and root it in scripture and move forward.

You cannot discount the Pharmakeia angle. It is NOT a natural avenue. What has been available though throughout history I am more ok with and that is still borderline and something I don't have any clarity on.

For me a lot of pills that are out there (and yes I can be specific) give me the same convictions that porn does. It's not the way the body was intended to operate. If the bible didn't say it was OK to have sex and even encouraged I would be super confused but it does so I apply that logic to a lot of things (unless expressly prohibited) and that there may be a proper way to engage it but when the way Christians engage it is the same way that the world engages it...it's time to reassess.

There are plenty of people in the world who believe in marriage (consider Mt 24:38). There are also entirely worldly studies on the harmful effects of porn. Even brain scans that show changes in the brain that mirror addiction to hard drugs (such as crack cocaine). VERY interesting information.

So people that don't profess Christ or are his have that going for them. How are we any different? Don't you think there's more to it?

A more correct way? One that is holy unto the Lord? Not one that is just obvious based off mental/physical pitfalls?


Anyway, I'm starting to ramble again. I'm honestly not sure why I keep posting SO much. I don't get it. If any of this is of any use awesomesauce. I pray the Lord makes some sense out of this for you.

My first reaction if it were coming at me would be to go on the defensive so just know I'm not being combative or trying to contend here.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#73
Well I originally typed that the point is not to be legalistic. Arguments like not wearing pants or what my aunt (who is a missionary) had an issue with was one of the members of their team got his funding from a baptist denomination that thought drums were satanic so they couldn't use drums in their church services are moot. There is no scriptural support for things like that other than the weaker brethren argument and what is worship unto the Lord in regards to why one abstains and the other does not. It comes down to a heart issue. I can provide scripture references to the above if you'd like

I don't want to get into a drug discussion but it's not clear cut, I will give you that. When it comes to sleeping pills it's a different category. An honest pharmacist will tell you that certain ones are risky even though commonly prescribed and the mechanism of action may be known but how the host of side effects occurs or deadly behaviors occur (such as sleep driving) or somnambulism is also unknown.

You can experience sleep walking without substances too :p Just not sleep driving. So a drug that is known to produce this effect tells you something.

There's a wild card factor that cannot be overlooked.

Btw I mentioned both hypnotics and antichollinergics. Almost every sleeping pill has some effect on acetylcholine which is dangerous.

This is just a randomly searched article. I'm sure there are scholarly articles out there also. Easy to find things with simple questions.

https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/are-sleeping-pills-safe/

Mostly it's just to get the discussion going. My mother was pretty firm in her convictions that she did everything she could and drugs were a last resort. It should take serious consideration.

There are things you think are poorly understood and there things I think are poorly understood. Legalism is one of them lol. I will make you aware that the "error of balaam" which is talked about several times in the NT and given a solid 4 chapters in the OT (pretty sure) is something that doesn't enter into a lot of people's discussions but I would encourage you to study a bit on it. A friendly encouragement. I was pretty stuck thinking I knew everything there was to know and in a low point I realized how pretentious that was. A lot of things opened up to me after that. Questions that I didn't think scripture had anything to say about. There are some things in scripture that are obscure. Am curious what you think.

You mentioned before about not being a surface level Christian. Cool. I would hazard that there are many people that aren't here either. We ALL have much to learn. It takes being open to it though. I realize you can't force openness but you can force new information into an already active thought process and root it in scripture and move forward.

You cannot discount the Pharmakeia angle. It is NOT a natural avenue. What has been available though throughout history I am more ok with and that is still borderline and something I don't have any clarity on.

For me a lot of pills that are out there (and yes I can be specific) give me the same convictions that porn does. It's not the way the body was intended to operate. If the bible didn't say it was OK to have sex and even encouraged I would be super confused but it does so I apply that logic to a lot of things (unless expressly prohibited) and that there may be a proper way to engage it but when the way Christians engage it is the same way that the world engages it...it's time to reassess.

There are plenty of people in the world who believe in marriage (consider Mt 24:38). There are also entirely worldly studies on the harmful effects of porn. Even brain scans that show changes in the brain that mirror addiction to hard drugs (such as crack cocaine). VERY interesting information.

So people that don't profess Christ or are his have that going for them. How are we any different? Don't you think there's more to it?

A more correct way? One that is holy unto the Lord? Not one that is just obvious based off mental/physical pitfalls?


Anyway, I'm starting to ramble again. I'm honestly not sure why I keep posting SO much. I don't get it. If any of this is of any use awesomesauce. I pray the Lord makes some sense out of this for you.

My first reaction if it were coming at me would be to go on the defensive so just know I'm not being combative or trying to contend here.
There's a difference between hardcore drugs and those prescribed by a doctor. I take a prescription that is actually commonly abused, but my doctor prescribed it for me and I always take the appropriate amount. It's been tremendously helpful and I'm so grateful that God has blessed me with it.

Whether we like it or not, there's a lot of grey in this world. The bible warns about idolatry, but it also tells us that certain things that have the potential to be idolatrous are in fact blessings from God.