On being an endangered species of an endangered species

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Ohm

Junior Member
Mar 4, 2018
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#23
I like theater, I like to write. I don't want to be a Christian author though.
You don't have to be! It's a fantastic talent, to be able to write and entertain. Do you write mainly stageplays, or also stories and screenplays?
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#24
You don't have to be! It's a fantastic talent, to be able to write and entertain. Do you write mainly stageplays, or also stories and screenplays?
When I say I don't want to be a Christian author, I don't mean to disparage them. People should write what they want. But I want to reach outside of my "tribe" so to speak.

I'm working on what could be my debut novel.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#25
Ohm, would you mind if we continue this conversation through personal messaging?
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#27
Everyone let me leave a word of warning.

I have never dated, have never been in love, have never personally experienced romantic love. So I believe I'm qualified to speak on this important matter.

If we in the church keep putting marriage/sexual love on a pedestal and keep subtly shaming celibacy, we will have little to nothing to say to the people we're supposed to reach that's any different from what they already hear on a regular basis.

We live in perhaps the first society that (in general) does not believe in a hereafter or an ultimate future. That your personal consciousness is temporary, and that when you die, your light goes out forever. As a result of this, we've never had a society more obsessed with finding your "one true love."

See, when we idolize romantic love, we will inevitably make celibacy an emotional death sentence of loneliness. We may live in a society that doesn't believe in a hereafter, but we still want the things that we believe only romantic love can give us, whether we're married or celibate, gay or straight, male or female, whatever.

What we want (that we think romantic love can give us but can't) is to be completely seen and known yet loved for who we are. We want to know that our life has not been in vain. We want to be rid of our faults. We want to be justified. We want to be redeemed.

If only we believed God could give us that. But we, secular people and Christians, do not at the end of the day. I myself still have a hard time believing that.
 

ArtsieSteph

Senior Member
Apr 1, 2014
5,070
334
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Arizona
#28
You my dear are not alone, because I am in the exact same position. I too am an unmarried virgin woman, 28 years of age, also not homosexual or asexual.

We both belong in our church families though, just because we’re not married yet doesn’t mean that we have any less value or use to the Lord. He’ll love us when we’re unmarried, married, working, retired, disabled, and everywhere in between and after.
 

Robertt

Active member
May 22, 2019
119
36
28
#30
Everyone let me leave a word of warning.

I have never dated, have never been in love, have never personally experienced romantic love. So I believe I'm qualified to speak on this important matter.

If we in the church keep putting marriage/sexual love on a pedestal and keep subtly shaming celibacy, we will have little to nothing to say to the people we're supposed to reach that's any different from what they already hear on a regular basis.

We live in perhaps the first society that (in general) does not believe in a hereafter or an ultimate future. That your personal consciousness is temporary, and that when you die, your light goes out forever. As a result of this, we've never had a society more obsessed with finding your "one true love."

See, when we idolize romantic love, we will inevitably make celibacy an emotional death sentence of loneliness. We may live in a society that doesn't believe in a hereafter, but we still want the things that we believe only romantic love can give us, whether we're married or celibate, gay or straight, male or female, whatever.

What we want (that we think romantic love can give us but can't) is to be completely seen and known yet loved for who we are. We want to know that our life has not been in vain. We want to be rid of our faults. We want to be justified. We want to be redeemed.

If only we believed God could give us that. But we, secular people and Christians, do not at the end of the day. I myself still have a hard time believing that.
Please dont judge all by what is happening around you, hard to not form generalised opinions until we expossed to more of the world.

But the bible actually teaches it is better to not be married. not the message you are hearing. So the bibles words are if you cant control yourself, get married.

So in your case remain single. Do not get married if you have no desire to. There is no requirment for it.

AS for art and writing , as long as what your draw or write or perform is not against Gods word then it is GOOD. Entertainment is ok for Christians .

Find church that is moving in the Spirit and not in the Doctrines of men. never cut yourself off from fellowship. Prayer with others always avails more, so it i good to find friends, whether they married or not. But some men are tempted so dont expect all men to be Godly, even if they call themselves a Christian.

Blessed are you . Enjoy life.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
26,192
4,621
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#31
I am a 25-year-old Christian girl who's never dated, who's never had sex of any kind,
has never looked at porn, has virtually no prospects in sight, and is not asexual or homosexual.

How does that make you feel toward me? Do you view me with pity or admiration?
Admiration :)
For that matter, married people have much to learn from singles/celibates as the other way around.
Do not assume married people have not experienced prolonged celibacy prior to marriage ;)
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#32
Admiration :)
Do not assume married people have not experienced prolonged celibacy prior to marriage ;)
I've just never felt like I belong anywhere. Even after I became a Christian. It's like I've just never belonged in the secular world or the world of Christians. I'm too different from both. I think differently from the general population and it's not something I can change, however much I wish I could.

The problem is, it's very hard not to feel left out and different when you haven't experienced something that's supposed to be universal. And if you haven't, people think there's something wrong with you.

I've all but given up trying to make friends outside my immediate family. I hardly ever go out anymore, 'cause it just doesn't seem to make a difference whether I do or not. I'm sick of giving and giving and giving and getting little to nothing back. If you want to be my friend, you have to be willing to put as much time and effort into this relationship as me. I don't care if you have a job or kids or whatever. Being my friend is a two-way street.

I just don't connect to other people the same way everyone else does. I don't like small talk and I like to discuss ideas rather than things and other people. And if people don't want me as I am, that's their loss.
 

ArtsieSteph

Senior Member
Apr 1, 2014
5,070
334
83
28
Arizona
#33
I've just never felt like I belong anywhere. Even after I became a Christian. It's like I've just never belonged in the secular world or the world of Christians. I'm too different from both. I think differently from the general population and it's not something I can change, however much I wish I could.

The problem is, it's very hard not to feel left out and different when you haven't experienced something that's supposed to be universal. And if you haven't, people think there's something wrong with you.

I've all but given up trying to make friends outside my immediate family. I hardly ever go out anymore, 'cause it just doesn't seem to make a difference whether I do or not. I'm sick of giving and giving and giving and getting little to nothing back. If you want to be my friend, you have to be willing to put as much time and effort into this relationship as me. I don't care if you have a job or kids or whatever. Being my friend is a two-way street.

I just don't connect to other people the same way everyone else does. I don't like small talk and I like to discuss ideas rather than things and other people. And if people don't want me as I am, that's their loss.
Not to sound rude but if it’s a long standing issue and nothing seems to help, maybe you should seek out help to talk about it from like a professional? It could be there are far more people like yourself than you realize, and also you’ll have another person to share how you’re feeling in a nonjudgmental sphere.
 

Robertt

Active member
May 22, 2019
119
36
28
#34
Asperger syndrome ?
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#35
Not to sound rude but if it’s a long standing issue and nothing seems to help, maybe you should seek out help to talk about it from like a professional? It could be there are far more people like yourself than you realize, and also you’ll have another person to share how you’re feeling in a nonjudgmental sphere.
I've tried professionals, multiple times. Problem is professionals are not friends and can only meet with you once or twice a month for an insane amount of money I can't pay.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#37
Please dont judge all by what is happening around you, hard to not form generalised opinions until we expossed to more of the world.

But the bible actually teaches it is better to not be married. not the message you are hearing. So the bibles words are if you cant control yourself, get married.

So in your case remain single. Do not get married if you have no desire to. There is no requirment for it.

AS for art and writing , as long as what your draw or write or perform is not against Gods word then it is GOOD. Entertainment is ok for Christians .

Find church that is moving in the Spirit and not in the Doctrines of men. never cut yourself off from fellowship. Prayer with others always avails more, so it i good to find friends, whether they married or not. But some men are tempted so dont expect all men to be Godly, even if they call themselves a Christian.

Blessed are you . Enjoy life.
We should all be able to control ourselves. The issue is many men turn to porn instead of marriage as the solution. You know why? There's no commitment involved. Marriage is more than sex, but some couples get together just to have legal sex (legal in Christianity) only to be massively disappointed.

Speaking of which, I don't watch porn, but being a 25-year-old girl, I do have sexual fantasies unfortunately. Despite my mom saying those feelings are completely normal, I often feel dirty just for acknowledging them. My mom is very open to me about this stuff and I'm grateful for it, but this is something that really bothers me about how Christians are educated about sex.

The reason we wait for marriage is to learn to treat each other like human beings, not because "marriage gives the best sex." The thing is, God does not guarantee marriage just because you "followed the rules." You might never get married. What do you do then? Especially if you're gay?

Speaking of which, when someone makes a conscious decision to stay celibate, they are doing something truly countercultural in both the secular world and the church. But does the church support them or appreciate their commitment to stay true to the Bible? No, more often than not they just leave them to fend for themselves. We say marriage can't satisfy us, but I don't believe we really believe that at the end of the day.

Sometimes, and more often than not, God just says no to something we might really want, and doesn't sugarcoat his "no" in flowery language like what I've seen in books for singles. No one gets everything they want in this life.

As for God being the only one who can satisfy us, I have tried. I have tried for months if not years to stay satisfied with God. I did everything I was told to do to satisfy myself in him. I prayed hard. I read my bible every day. I attended church as often as I could... And I still. wasn't. satisfied.

Why are we scared to just admit the truth and say that God sometimes can't satisfy us? And that he can't satisfy us in ways that only humans can?
 
Jun 14, 2016
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#38
We should all be able to control ourselves. The issue is many men turn to porn instead of marriage as the solution. You know why? There's no commitment involved. Marriage is more than sex, but some couples get together just to have legal sex (legal in Christianity) only to be massively disappointed.

Speaking of which, I don't watch porn, but being a 25-year-old girl, I do have sexual fantasies unfortunately. Despite my mom saying those feelings are completely normal, I often feel dirty just for acknowledging them. My mom is very open to me about this stuff and I'm grateful for it, but this is something that really bothers me about how Christians are educated about sex.

The reason we wait for marriage is to learn to treat each other like human beings, not because "marriage gives the best sex." The thing is, God does not guarantee marriage just because you "followed the rules." You might never get married. What do you do then? Especially if you're gay?

Speaking of which, when someone makes a conscious decision to stay celibate, they are doing something truly countercultural in both the secular world and the church. But does the church support them or appreciate their commitment to stay true to the Bible? No, more often than not they just leave them to fend for themselves. We say marriage can't satisfy us, but I don't believe we really believe that at the end of the day.

Sometimes, and more often than not, God just says no to something we might really want, and doesn't sugarcoat his "no" in flowery language like what I've seen in books for singles. No one gets everything they want in this life.

As for God being the only one who can satisfy us, I have tried. I have tried for months if not years to stay satisfied with God. I did everything I was told to do to satisfy myself in him. I prayed hard. I read my bible every day. I attended church as often as I could... And I still. wasn't. satisfied.

Why are we scared to just admit the truth and say that God sometimes can't satisfy us? And that he can't satisfy us in ways that only humans can?
I think you’re hitting an important point here. And it sucks to hear that you haven’t been able to really connect with anyone around you. I can understand a bit where you’re coming from. I have a difficult time connecting with others, but I’m more on the other end of the spectrum. I value time away from people, though I do like to be around people if that makes sense.

We were made to be in community with one another. To fellowship and grow amongst one another. Personally, I find I do better in one-on-one relationships rather than in a group setting. I find I prefer the one-on-one setting better as I find there’s more opportunity to talk about more serious matters.

I understand the not wanting to talk about trivial matters. I think a lot of talk is wasted on such things. But I also find myself in those same types of places at times doing the same types of things. I suppose it depends on how I’m feeling/the setting/etc. For some, it may take a little ‘letting loose’ for them to open up, granted it should be done without compromising your convictions.

My pastor preaches three essential things needed in the Christian walk, daily.

1: Secret place

Encountering God. Spending time with Him in the Word and in prayer. Spending time in praise and worship. Where He fills you.

2: Community

Spending time with other believers. Bearing one another’s burdens. Sharpening one another and encouraging one another.

3: Evangelism

Sharing the love of the Father with the lost. Reaching out and fulfilling the great commission.

I don’t have these things down, but I view it as good reminder and a guideline of things needed to keep me balanced. God ultimately knows what we need and can definitely sustain us on His own. But I believe He definitely uses these three things. (Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that these are the only three things we need to do, but they definitely are essential pieces in the grand scheme of things)
 
Sep 11, 2018
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#39
Thing is I've noticed that the church bemoans how sexualized our society has become, and it makes me want to say to them, "You do the exact same thing, just in a different way." That being constantly putting marriage and the nuclear family on a pedestal.

Must every pastor be married? If so, then Jesus and Paul themselves would not be allowed such a position.

Can men and women truly not be friends, especially if they are married? I understand the need to maintain boundaries, but the irony is that in making both genders fear each other rather than teaching them to respect the other as human beings, we've put them more at risk.

I also get the importance of sex and keeping it in marriage. But are marriage and sex needed to be fully human? If this mystical union of body and soul is such a great and universal thing, why restrict it to married people? Why rob everyone else of this joy of joys? Sure, friends are decent, but the real relationship goal is with one's spouse.

Does this all sound familiar? If we church people keep talking like this, we ultimately will not be much different from the sexualized society we stress over. It's no wonder porn use is rampant and singleness and especially lifelong celibacy now feel like a death sentence. If that's so, what do we have to say to the never married, divorced, the widowed, and especially those who experience same-sex attraction?

For that matter, married people have much to learn from singles/celibates as the other way around. For example, what if something happens to your spouse and it becomes physically impossible to have sex with them? What do you do then?
I'm so glad you pointed all of this out. It's a unique and totally valid perspective, and one that I think I've felt but have never quite been able to articulate. I really wish there was a way of sharing this with church leadership. I don't think they realize what they're doing. But in much the same way that secular society presents being in a relationship as the epitome of life, so does the church.

In secular spaces, obtaining a relationship seems to say "You're desirable, you're valuable, you're worth something to someone and therefore a valid human" and in church it says virtually the same thing in an ostensibly more holy way: "Now your life has REALLY begun. You were worth virtually nothing to anyone but Christ (who always loves you!!) before you had a mate, as far as we could tell but now you have someone tangible to vouch for you. Praise God your season of being a being an incomplete person -- er, singleness -- is over! ...Not that marriage and kids complete you! ...but we all definitely (tacitly) take you more seriously now."

Rarely does anyone in a leadership position in church take the time to speak on the shamelessness, on the virtues, on the benefits, on the joys of singleness. And moreover on the fact that people can't just up and *decide* to not be single! Lol! Not if they're seeking the Lord's will for a mate, anyway. It's as if some churches take it for granted that once you hit 30, you either are definitely married, or you just spontaneously combust and your particles float off into the ether, i.e., if you haven't figured it out by then, you're a lost cause so who cares. There isn't a space for you otherwise because you shouldn't need one! Lol. Least that's the impression I get.

Point being, to the OP, I also sometimes feel like I don't quite belong anywhere. At least before I hit 30, I felt welcome in the "young singles" groups. Now I feel as if I'm judged for "still" being there, and frankly, my interests and thoughts don't align with those of most of the constituents -- instagram, brows on fleek, fortnight, whatever. But with the people closer to my own age, there also doesn't seem to be a comfortable space for me because I just as much can't relate to their topics du jour! -- daycare, lawn upkeep, throw pillow patterns, whatever. I'm simultaneously at the wrong stage and the wrong age to feel really comfortable anywhere.

Pardon the rant. I'm not actually as sour as I sound about it, but I can definitely understand feeling a bit "on the outside looking in". Makes me sad sometimes, but I know that our God is El Roi, God Who Sees Me. And He sees you too, friend. When it seems like we're total outcasts and inadvertent iconoclasts, misunderstood by many, not fully welcome anywhere, He understands completely (Hebrews 4:15-16), and has a spacious place for us to occupy (Job 30:15-16, Psalm 18:19) where we don't have to be preoccupied with such trivialities and can occupy and delight ourselves with His presence.

We just have to choose (it's a choice!!) to fix our eyes on Him and not fixate (that is, to obsess with and have an unhealthy amount of focus) on the *preoccupations of the world, which, however much of a blessing they may be, and in spite of the fact that they are designed and intended by God to bring us joy and Him glory, ultimately, marriage and sex *are (Matthew 22:30). -- Natural! And good if and when God blesses you with them -- together, obviously, and not one in isolation from the other -- but in terms on eternity, in terms of the work God has planned for us to do to make Him known, (which is really the only reason any of us are here-- though he is indeed a good Father and delights to see us happy, our happiness isn't actually the point, is it...), romantic relationships are pretty ornamental.

So pretty much, don't worry about what anyone else thinks of you. I think your question was partially asked just out of idle curiosity, but in case there was more to it than that, there need not be. The people that see you as the world sees you don't matter anyway. The people who see, think, feel and perceive as the Lord does -- those are the ones you want to surround yourself with and invest in. Kick the dust off your heels when it comes to the rest. Just worry about impressing your Savior. He'll take care of the rest.
 

Robertt

Active member
May 22, 2019
119
36
28
#40
We should all be able to control ourselves. The issue is many men turn to porn instead of marriage as the solution. You know why? There's no commitment involved. Marriage is more than sex, but some couples get together just to have legal sex (legal in Christianity) only to be massively disappointed.
how much porn in the days of Paul when he wrote the scripture, none, just harlots. so no it not porn that is the issue Paul said to both men and women, it better to marry than to burn. God blesses marriage.


Speaking of which, I don't watch porn, but being a 25-year-old girl, I do have sexual fantasies unfortunately. Despite my mom saying those feelings are completely normal, I often feel dirty just for acknowledging them. My mom is very open to me about this stuff and I'm grateful for it, but this is something that really bothers me about how Christians are educated about sex.
well we are all tempted and fantasies are all sin . to think it is to have done it.

The reason we wait for marriage is to learn to treat each other like human beings, not because "marriage gives the best sex." The thing is, God does not guarantee marriage just because you "followed the rules." You might never get married. What do you do then? Especially if you're gay?
if you gay you are an abomination to God, so Repent and start again.
Speaking of which, when someone makes a conscious decision to stay celibate, they are doing something truly countercultural in both the secular world and the church. But does the church support them or appreciate their commitment to stay true to the Bible? No, more often than not they just leave them to fend for themselves. We say marriage can't satisfy us, but I don't believe we really believe that at the end of the day.
only in your church, Paul openly says in scripture best to be like him and not marry.
Sometimes, and more often than not, God just says no to something we might really want, and doesn't sugarcoat his "no" in flowery language like what I've seen in books for singles. No one gets everything they want in this life.
Scripture says to ask the father in Jesus name and unless it is bad for him he will give it.
As for God being the only one who can satisfy us, I have tried. I have tried for months if not years to stay satisfied with God. I did everything I was told to do to satisfy myself in him. I prayed hard. I read my bible every day. I attended church as often as I could... And I still. wasn't. satisfied.
unless you are filled with the Holy Spirit you will not receive the comforter.
Why are we scared to just admit the truth and say that God sometimes can't satisfy us? And that he can't satisfy us in ways that only humans can?
and this is also scriptural, Adam communed with God and was still lonely so God sent him a wife. Not a friend .