Porn/Sex Addiction (Warning: graphic words)

[Not_The_Righteous]

How can you dare to walk up to God's children and tell them they aren't free? You are calling God a liar, you are calling me a liar, and you are attempting to discourage me. What are you profiting from this?

What a stange response. Now you're putting words in my mouth rather than answering any of the Biblical charges made concerning some your claims in this thread.

I am attempting to guide you back to Scripture, which does much better than flying under a non-descript flag of "free" which you have started doing in this thread. Scripture says you need to walk in accountability with others. Scripture teaches there is no "lightswitch" sanctification as you have described.

We are "free." But that depends on how you're using the word "free" doesn't it? Those who are in Christ are free.. but being "free" actually means something and it's not a general category for someone to interpret willy-nilly. The questions you've gotten in this thread all relate to your description of "free" vs. Scripture's definition of "free." If they don't match up, who has the problem - you? or a guy like me who is trying very hard to remain patient and show you the difference?

Being free from the Law and no longer a slave to Sin does not mean you are sinless or without illicit passions that must be governed. It does not mean you do not/will not struggle with Sin or the tempatations of this life. It doesn't uphold the whole "power in the objects" stuff you've touted here. Upon the whole, being "free" does not mean at all what you've seemed to argue it means in the vast majority of this thread, going so far back as mocking someone else for thinking God is offended by your/my/whoever's Sin.

You seem to propose a Christianity which requires no self control; A discipleship with no discipline, perseverance, or active participation in the means by which God is making you more like His Son. If you've communicated your "new revelation" accurately here, what you offer is Christianity in which you will never need to struggle, to stand firm, to suffer, to persevere, to work, to confess and remain accountable or do anything that the Scriptures actually tell you are part of the package.

That is not a Christianity with any real hope. Why? Because it's a "christianity" other than that which Christ, or any of the Apostles really spoke about. Your "freedom" (as spoken of here so far) isn't based upon truth - which is why it will never really make you or anyone "free."

Why are you refusing to respond on a substantive, rational, fair level and actually interact meaningfully with either my responses or (preferably) the texts of Scripture I have offered? I keep waiting, thinking that doing so will result in us resolving the difference in perspective. I keep waiting for you to show me, from Scripture, what you're talking about and how it meshes with the other texts concerning the issue.. but you refuse. Why? Why not engage what the Text actually says and stop wrangling with words and posting deliberate misrepresentations of anyone that does not enthusiastically agree with whatever you say?

Calm down and help me connect the dots: Why are you appearing to call people toward a spirituality which is not what the New Testament describes about us or prescribes for us? What isn't getting communicated?

 

[QuestionTime]

What a stange response. Now you're putting words in my mouth rather than answering any of the Biblical charges made concerning some your claims in this thread.

I am attempting to guide you back to Scripture, which does much better than flying under a non-descript flag of "free" which you have started doing in this thread. Scripture says you need to walk in accountability with others. Scripture teaches there is no "lightswitch" sanctification as you have described.

You are attempting to antagonize, and why you are doing this I can't comprehend. If you came here and told me that you found freedom from sexual sin I would applaud and ask how you did it.

You on the other hand do not applaud. Instead you criticize and claim that I am still trapped in sin because the things that I have spoken are contrary to your belief system.

Yes, scripture in YOUR interpretation. There are 10's of thousands of Christians over the centuries who have interpreted scripture exactly the way that I do. How can you tell them all that they are wrong and that you are correct? Who are you? Are you greater than John Wesley or William Booth or Keith Green? Have you converted more souls than they? Until you do the works that they have done, I don't want to hear another word about your interpretation.

We are "free." But that depends on how you're using the word "free" doesn't it? Those who are in Christ are free.. but being "free" actually means something and it's not a general category for someone to interpret willy-nilly. The questions you've gotten in this thread all relate to your description of "free" vs. Scripture's definition of "free." If they don't match up, who has the problem - you? or a guy like me who is trying very hard to remain patient and show you the difference?

The Bible's definition of free is free. Free is free is free is free. What else can free mean but free? What's your interpretation? A man still in the shackles of sin is free because he believes in Jesus Christ? Do you claim that Jesus failed to do what God sent Him to do?

Matt1:21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Ezek 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

No where in the verses above is there any indication of a lifetime struggle against sin. God forbid!

Being free from the Law and no longer a slave to Sin does not mean you are sinless or without illicit passions that must be governed. It does not mean you do not/will not struggle with Sin or the tempatations of this life. It doesn't uphold the whole "power in the objects" stuff you've touted here. Upon the whole, being "free" does not mean at all what you've seemed to argue it means in the vast majority of this thread, going so far back as mocking someone else for thinking God is offended by your/my/whoever's Sin.

Why do you insist on bringing people down with such a negative interpretation of the Bible? You accuse God of being powerless, you claim that He cannot save to the uttermost. I really am tired of hearing your negativity.

I sincerely can't understand how you have helped anyone with your ministry of negative and powerless Christianity.

You seem to propose a Christianity which requires no self control; A discipleship with no discipline, perseverance, or active participation in the means by which God is making you more like His Son. If you've communicated your "new revelation" accurately here, what you offer is Christianity in which you will never need to struggle, to stand firm, to suffer, to persevere, to work, to confess and remain accountable or do anything that the Scriptures actually tell you are part of the package.

You seem to propose that man must always give into the same temptations over and over until death. Clearly there is a point in every Christian's life where he overcomes various temptations. It doesn't mean he is never tempted again, he just sees through satan's lies and no longer needs to give in.

That is not a Christianity with any real hope. Why? Because it's a "christianity" other than that which Christ, or any of the Apostles really spoke about. Your "freedom" (as spoken of here so far) isn't based upon truth - which is why it will never really make you or anyone "free."

Your version of Christianity sucks the hope right out of me everytime I read a replay from you. Thank God satan hasn't successfully used your negativity to put me on a sinful bent.

But I am quite sure of one thing, if I did come in here tomorrow and said that I fell back into sin, your heart would rejoice that you have been proven correct in your interpretations. I pray that God will never give you the opportunity.

Why are you refusing to respond on a substantive, rational, fair level and actually interact meaningfully with either my responses or (preferably) the texts of Scripture I have offered? I keep waiting, thinking that doing so will result in us resolving the difference in perspective. I keep waiting for you to show me, from Scripture, what you're talking about and how it meshes with the other texts concerning the issue.. but you refuse. Why? Why not engage what the Text actually says and stop wrangling with words and posting deliberate misrepresentations of anyone that does not enthusiastically agree with whatever you say?

Why should I have to be repeatedly attacked with your negativity? Why should I repeatedly be accused of having incorrect understanding of the scriptures? Why should I continue to hear Godly men of old mocked as having incorrect understanding of the scriptures?

Calm down and help me connect the dots: Why are you appearing to call people toward a spirituality which is not what the New Testament describes about us or prescribes for us? What isn't getting communicated?

What isn't getting communicated to you is that your stubborn and continual attempts to force me to convert to your belief system will never meet with success, so please don't bother anymore.

Quest

 

[Not_The_Righteous]

You are attempting to antagonize, and why you are doing this I can't comprehend. If you came here and told me that you found freedom from sexual sin I would applaud and ask how you did it.

You on the other hand do not applaud. Instead you criticize and claim that I am still trapped in sin because the things that I have spoken are contrary to your belief system.

You're distorting. I said you were not "sinless" and that there was no "quick fix" to deep sin issues. I grounded that opinion in numerous texts which establish that. That's far from saying you're trapped, and you probably know it. You brushed it off as mere milk, "for the rest of the powerless church."

No. I actually think that believing some of the things you've posted here are going to hurt you a lot down the road. You rebuff reccomendations of accountability, scoff at the idea of continuing in a life of repentance, angrily flail at comments that caution you in your exhuberance, making comments instead that intimate that you're sinless or expecting a second-tier Christian walk where you won't struggle.

The Bible's definition of free is free. Free is free is free is free. What else can free mean but free? What's your interpretation? A man still in the shackles of sin is free because he believes in Jesus Christ? Do you claim that Jesus failed to do what God sent Him to do?

I already let Romans 6 answer this - do you have a reply to it or not?

What is the biblical definition of free? Free from thinking? Free from struggle? Sinless? What?
Mock the question all you like, it is still a serious question. Perhaps I should ask you what Sin is. That might get us going in the same direction.

Matt1:21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Ezek 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Amen to Jesus saving people from sins. Amen to being regenerated and made alive to righteousness. Where do these establish that the Christian life is free from having to exert self discipline, flee immorality, or actually listen to the prescriptive passages in Scripture regarding living the Christian life without casting them off as pitiful "milk" meant for the rest of the accursed church and not for you?

Where do these, at all, counter what I have shown you from the New Testament regarding the Christian life being one which actually requires the things it prescribes for Christian living. I mean - how dare I use Scripture's to show what Scripture suggests for Christian living?

No where in the verses above is there any indication of a lifetime struggle against sin. God forbid!

2 Verses concerning justification and regeneration are hardly a real treatment of the issue of sanctification, which is the discussion we're having. Remember - this started because you chafed at the idea that you actually have an old nature to contend with. You then said that you follow the likes of Wesley and Finney (funny, because he rejects the substitutionary atonement of Christ because it leads - he says- to antinomianism and laxness of living) in the notion that confession is one time and then you are sinless.

How can you tell them all that they are wrong and that you are correct? Who are you? Are you greater than John Wesley or William Booth or Keith Green? Have you converted more souls than they? Until you do the works that they have done, I don't want to hear another word about your interpretation.

I missed where William Booth or John Wesley became the standard against which all teaching should be measured. You keep referring to some esoteric "interpretation" I'm following, but all I have done is walk through texts with you. And yes, as I said before, these men were not Apostles and their opinions, however good they may make you feel, must always be compared back to Scripture. Sola Scriptura.

Why do you insist on bringing people down with such a negative interpretation of the Bible? You accuse God of being powerless, you claim that He cannot save to the uttermost. I really am tired of hearing your negativity.

So... when I say you have to have self control - it's negative. When Paul says you have to have self-control it's... what? When I say that you have to remain steadfast in trials and temptations, it's negative... but when James says it - what? When I say that if you say you are without sin you have a problem I'm negative, but when John says it he's... what?

The logic of your argument doesn't exactly seem to put you in good company does it? See what basing a theology off of emotion and experience gets you? By "negative" you must

I sincerely can't understand how you have helped anyone with your ministry of negative and powerless Christianity.

Because after going off half-cocked for years arrogantly assuming that there was an instant fix coming from God that didn't involve doing what God said and participating in the means of grace God gave us in this life, many people are broken enough to actually listen to what Scripture says with regard to the Christian life. I merely repeat it. Sin is a deep issue and there is no "quick fix." Thankfully, God does not call us to a place His grace and provision does not cover us.

You seem to propose that man must always give into the same temptations over and over until death. Clearly there is a point in every Christian's life where he overcomes various temptations. It doesn't mean he is never tempted again, he just sees through satan's lies and no longer needs to give in.

I said we struggle. I didn't say we lose. Sanctification is progressive - not stagnant. But there is no "light switch." You're distorting, again.

Your version of Christianity sucks the hope right out of me everytime I read a replay from you. Thank God satan hasn't successfully used your negativity to put me on a sinful bent.

If your hope is founded on a false teaching, then I am glad. My "version" is not strange. It just reads Scripture that says there are means as much as there is an end. My "version" of sanctification is the one you will find in just about every systematic theology you can find today. Outside of Keswick circles, that is.

But I am quite sure of one thing, if I did come in here tomorrow and said that I fell back into sin, your heart would rejoice that you have been proven correct in your interpretations. I pray that God will never give you the opportunity.

Hysterics are your weakness. You think you know so much about people, churches, and teachings and have from the second or third post spared no space to tell us how little you think of it all. You prefer your "new revelation."

If you do fall again, I would not point a finger at your grief. I would do what I always do, and try and encourage you to seek your fulfillment in Christ alone. The guilt and shame you feel, I would counter with the Gospel's assurance that God considers Christ, not you. I would tell you that it's ok not to be ok, and that every mistake you make is no surprise to the one who died in your place to make you even capable living a life free from sin and empowered by the Spirit. I would show you what the Scriptures say to all of us fellow beggars, bruised and broken by the Fall.

Assuming my heart on the matter is probably not a great idea, and like so many things in this interchange so far, you are mistaken.

Why should I have to be repeatedly attacked with your negativity? Why should I repeatedly be accused of having incorrect understanding of the scriptures? Why should I continue to hear Godly men of old mocked as having incorrect understanding of the scriptures?

Who knew that simply posting scripture and challenging a position would result in such an overwhelmingly reaction? You're engaging in hysterics. I haven't mocked anyone here - just shown skepticism with regard to a theological claim which is suspect. Can you give no answer on the merits of the argument? I want to talk about the applicable texts, and you keep using vague references to Wesley, Greene and others as a substitute for an actual, substantive answer.

We could have a discussion on the merits of Finney or Wesley, if you wanted. But I haven't really done that here. If Wesley, Finney, Calvin, Fuller, Augustine or Ambrose or Origen or anyone has a position which has some real issues when put under scrutiny, why is it suddenly some great offense to point that out? They are not the standard. It's like you've canonized them.