Single women ignored in churches through ignorance?

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M

Miri

Guest
#21
Why didnt you go with this person to the male counsellor? Just wondering.
Ignore my previous post. Lanolin beat me to it.

There were certain issues she didn’t want to reveal. Nor should she have to
tell two people, when one qualified person would do.

Men are not expected to have someone sit in with them when they go to see a male
church councillor. Why should a woman.

I suppose the answer is to have female pastors, leaders and Councillors.
But then that stirs up the “women can’t be in positions of authority” debate.

Can’t win really, but caught in the middle are women who are not getting the
pastoral care they need.

As for comments about pastors wives helping, few pastors wives have the same
theology degrees, go on the same counselling courses, attend the same pastoral
training as their husbands, why should women have to put up with second best.

The other thing, not all pastors wives are into pastoring the women in church.
We have four pastors, two of the wives have secular jobs as nurses and don’t do
much in the church.

One is elderly now and stepped back from church ministry. She never did much
pastoral care anyway.

The forth is younger and 4 children to juggle and family life.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,109
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#22
Hmmmm, it is a simple solution if everyone, single or not, were seeking the Lord at all times... However, none of us do ALL the time.

Your dream and your acting on it was such a blessing.

I think somewhere in all this is balance. We need to be cautious and mindful, but we are also to love our single and married neighbors, care for and about them.

This seems impossible if we keep our brethren at arms length, for whatever reason. Going to church isn't, imo, just about our walks, but about being of service to our fellow man. However, there is only so much time and energy in a day. Thankfully, no one is to be there for every one.

We are a community, a body, right?

I know some days when attending, I am in a outgoing mood, happy to connect, fellowship, and welcome. Other days, I'm weary, more kept to myself, and just seeking to find restoration, worshipping our Lord.

So for me, I try and leave expectations at the door, and exemplify kindness, best I can. Usually most everyone meets me where I am, in what I put forth, they do also.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,109
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#23
The reason why extra caution is practiced is to protect the well-being of all concerned.

Unfortunately, experience has testified to the necessity of such practice.

Let's say only 1 in 1000 meetings with a counselor in the church setting with the opposite sex went off the rails, jeopardizing the safety of either party...

Though inconvenient for the masse, better safe than sorry.

For me, I understand your frustrations but see no way getting around it.
 
L

LittleMermaid

Guest
#24
My pastor does not have a degree in theology. His major was business and he graduated from a state university. His wife, however, did get her Bible college degree in counseling where she studied theology as well.
Miri, if this were the case in your church, would you feel better about talking to the Pastor’s wife?
 

Kim82

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,335
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#25
I think its wise for pastors to do all they can to protect themselves from gossip, and just plain ol' false accusations.

I think sometimes people overestimate their abilities, thinking, oh I would never fall into any kind of sexual sin. I would never cheat on my spouse. And then next thing you know the interactions turn into something else.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,483
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#26
Why should she expect a male pastor to talk to her then why not go to you, and YOU counsel her?

Why does it have to be a pastor as in someone whos officially got that title. If I got an issue sometimes I talk to female elders. And some of them are very good at listening dont need a theology degree to listen.

As for pastors wives not also pastoring, thats just in some churches. Not all churches are like that there are pastor husband and wife teams. I wouldnt go to a male pastor for everything esp sensitive female issues, in fact anyone set up that way wont understand a single womans point of view. Many men think the solution to everything is for the single woman to get a husband. Well no.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#27
I do wish people would read posts properly.

My friend had a severe mental health problem she needed professional counselling. We have a professional counsellor in the church he is a man.


He would not speak to her on his own so she had to go to her doctor and secular counselling was arranged via a male psychologist.

Basically she has been brushed off with second best because she is a woman and the qualified church professional counsellor is a man! The external physiologist is not a Christian so cannot speak to her on a spiritual level.

As for why I could not counsel her, I am not an expert in mental health nor am I a trained counsellor. She needed professional help.

Aw well never mind I shouldn't really have expected everyone to read the posts properly. Thanks to those who did.
 
L

LittleMermaid

Guest
#28
I read the posts and I can see what you are saying. I understand how it might not be fair for women to not receive counseling from someone who has a degree in that just because they are women. But I think that it's really not worth the risk. It's way too risky for a woman to be alone with a man in the church especially if they are closer in age. Either one of them could interpret the emotional vulnerability in the wrong way and think it's something more. Then the pastor or woman are in a bit of a pickle. Don't you think, Sis?

We have to let the Holy Spirit take over. I think if the women of the church do that, they would be as well or even more qualified to give good advice and counseling to the women of their church.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,655
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#29
"God forbid that a single woman meets with a male married church leader to discus church matters or that she receives counseling or pastoral care from a man at all, unless someone else is present in the room. "


Most of these paranoid sounding "preventive measures" are just very practical things which Christian leaders MUST do to protect themselves.

Not a Man

If you don't understand, then you clearly aren't a man living in the modern world.
Women will do all kinds of strange things, and make all kinds of strange accusations.

And the problem is, when a woman makes an accusation, even if it's false... EVERYONE BELIEVES HER!!!

So men have to protect themselves.

Men have to PROVE and VERIFY they DID NOT do a thing.
How do you do that?
How do you prove a negative?
How do you prove you weren't in a place, or you didn't say a thing, or you didn't do a thing... a thing which never happened?

How do you have proof of a thing which never was?

How do you prove a negative?

You prove a negative by NOT HAVING NEGATIVES ... you must have all your meetings with women VIEWABLE, PUBLIC, KNOWN, ACCOUNTED FOR, and OBSERVED BY OTHERS.


Proving Negatives
You cannot prove a negative... that something which never happened never happened.
You have no proof for a thing which "was not."

So how do you protect yourself against these negatives... these accusations of things which never happened?

There is a way.
Your only way to "prove a negative" is by not having any negatives to prove.

You cannot have any "negatives."
You cannot have any of those invisible periods, holes in your schedule, where you "may" have been alone with some woman doing something naughty.
And you cannot have any times where you WERE with some woman, and it wasn't either in a group with others, or at least publicly observable through a glass window or something. You cannot prove a negative, therefore you must not have any negatives... you must not have any alone time with women, or have any unaccounted periods in your schedule.

Christian leaders are FORCED into this issue of "proving negatives"... forced by a culture that believes anything a woman says.
And since proving a negative is impossible, we must have no negatives to question.
We must have no holes in the schedule, no alone time with women, nothing which can possibly be questioned.


Secular Problem - Not Just Christians:
BTW... women are getting so weird in western culture that it isn't just church leaders who are paranoid.
In the secular world, men are extremely paranoid about accusations from women.
There are even certain female demographics that are virtually "unhirable"... because everyone is afraid to work with them.

At most colleges, a boy can get thrown out of school, lose his money, and lose his credits, if he has consensual sex with a girl who changes her mind AFTER THE FACT.

At almost any college, a boy can have consensual sex with a girl, then the girl can "decide" later it was a mistake, and she can then actually go to the Dean's office, file a complaint of sexual abuse (claiming she was feeling vulnerable or something, and it was therefore actually against her will) , and she can have the boy THROWN OUT OF SCHOOL for sexual misconduct.

Seriously.

This college thing happens just about every week.

In the secular world, men are making girls sign contracts of "mutual consent" before having sex... to protect themselves from rape accusations. (This is common on college campuses btw.)
Some men have decided a contract isn't enough, so they're doing a video contract, where the girl actually has to state that she is about to have consensual sex, and then name EACH PARTICULAR SEXUAL ACT which she is consenting to.


CONCLUSION:

Sorry the world is so weird, and that men are so paranoid.

But your pastor didn't make the world crazy....
your pastor is just trying to survive it.


..




..
 

Kim82

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,335
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#30
My friend had a severe mental health problem
All the more why he should not be alone with her.

What if she started crying, and needed a shoulder to cry on?

You know what? Sometimes its better to take all your issues to the Lord in prayer. Read the Psalms. Put on some good ol' gospel music that will touch the soul and refresh the spirit. Oh what a friend we have in Jesus! Yes, take it to the Lord in prayer. Minister to your own self. Remember all that the Lord did for you in the past. He did it before and He can do it again. Trust in the Lord, Oh my soul and all that is within me bless His holy name. Hallelujah thank you Jesus

If the pastor decides that he doesn't want to be alone with any female other than his wife or relatives, then that's nothing to be offended about.

The reputation of the female will also be protected. Any woman should be pleased with this.
 

Ruby123

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2019
3,814
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#31
Why should she expect a male pastor to talk to her then why not go to you, and YOU counsel her?

Why does it have to be a pastor as in someone whos officially got that title. If I got an issue sometimes I talk to female elders. And some of them are very good at listening dont need a theology degree to listen.

As for pastors wives not also pastoring, thats just in some churches. Not all churches are like that there are pastor husband and wife teams. I wouldnt go to a male pastor for everything esp sensitive female issues, in fact anyone set up that way wont understand a single womans point of view. Many men think the solution to everything is for the single woman to get a husband. Well no.
Oh boy, that' s all I can say!
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
16,384
3,833
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#32
Miri please understand: We're not saying there's not an issue. We're not saying you're upset over nothing. We're saying there is a reason for the issue... and sometimes life just really sucks and there's nothing we can do except guard as best we can against the parts that suck.

Aside from offering to go with your friend to talk to the christian counselor, I don't see a viable solution to the problem. Sometimes life just sucks like that.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,483
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#33
For mental issues the best thing to do is to go to healing and deliverance service and most will have traind husband and wife teams. If it has been anything like sexual molestation in the past, then yes it is dangerous to counsel someone alone.

When Jesus cast out demons of the gaderene man he did in front of everyone actually. And the woman caught in adultery, all that was done in public. She even wept at his feet in public.

When jesus met the samarian woman at the well, the first thing he asked her was where was her husband. He still talked to her anyway, but he was also actually making sure that she was not going to make a play for him.
 

Kim82

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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#34
he was also actually making sure that she was not going to make a play for him.
Will you please stop coming up with these ridiculous interpretation of scripture?

You must be auditioning for a comedy club.
 

Ruby123

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2019
3,814
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#35
Will you please stop coming up with these ridiculous interpretation of scripture?

You must be auditioning for a comedy club.
I know I had to read that part twice and just shook my head. I don't know whether these comments are for real or just a complete joke.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#36
Nope Jesus said when you minsiter you go out two by two. paul ahd barnabas and silas go with him he wasnt doing anything singlehandedly. JEsus had twelve disciples and would have at least one or two around when he was doing any miracle as a witness. Nothing was done in a corner.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,483
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#37
Kim82 apparently doesnt like me, dont worry kim if you cannot read scripture or understand it just read it again and ask God to help you. The conversation between Jesus and the samritan woman is intersting because firstly, jewish men werent supposed to even talk to women alone let alone samaritan women. By tradition.

And you can see the caution that jesus disarms this woman who is trying to change the subject. She at first thought he was maybe asking her out. Going to the well was kinda like going to a bar in those days. Of course when Jesus asks HER for a drink, its kinda against the norm. He should be offering to get her one.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,483
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#38
Go read the passGe yourself, this is my interpetation, if you dont agree thats fine but its not going to stop me reading scripture. Or posting about it.

And no, it is not a comedy club. I dont do comedy but if people dont have any sense of humour i cant help it if they laugh or not. Up to you!
 
M

Miri

Guest
#39
For mental issues the best thing to do is to go to healing and deliverance service and most will have traind husband and wife teams. If it has been anything like sexual molestation in the past, then yes it is dangerous to counsel someone alone.

When Jesus cast out demons of the gaderene man he did in front of everyone actually. And the woman caught in adultery, all that was done in public. She even wept at his feet in public.

When jesus met the samarian woman at the well, the first thing he asked her was where was her husband. He still talked to her anyway, but he was also actually making sure that she was not going to make a play for him.

Oh no not another “all mental illness is demon possession” person.

Also can’t believe your interpretation of the woman at the well.

Clearly not someone whose view points are worth reading.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#40
Miri please understand: We're not saying there's not an issue. We're not saying you're upset over nothing. We're saying there is a reason for the issue... and sometimes life just really sucks and there's nothing we can do except guard as best we can against the parts that suck.

Aside from offering to go with your friend to talk to the christian counselor, I don't see a viable solution to the problem. Sometimes life just sucks like that.
Hi Lynx thanks for your consideration.
I didn’t expect everyone to agree with me, I just think there is a
problem generally, if brothers and sisters in Christ are so suspicious of each other,
that it hinders someone getting the professional counselling they need.