The Hostility Between Men & Women
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The Bible does speak, in very plain terms, of one "special conflict between men and women", and that "special conflict" is within the specific context or confines of marriage.
For example, we read:
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)
After the Fall, when God told Eve "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee", God was, in context, reproving Eve for her desire to rule over her husband or to not be in subjection to his God-given authority over her. Authority, I must add, which God equates with ACCOUNTABILITY in scripture, and never with DOMINANCE or ABUSE, or authority to watch over and protect her in the same manner that Christ does with his church.
In fact, God used the same exact language that he did with Eve when he later spoke to Cain.
We read:
Genesis chapter 4
[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Here, sin was personified ("his" and "him") in that Satan was the one who was truly lying at Cain's door (I John 3:12).
In the same manner in which Cain was sin's or Satan's "desire" that Cain need to "rule over", so, too, was Adam's headship Eve's "desire" which Adam needed to "rule over".
Paul alluded to this Biblical truth when he said:
I Corinthians chapter 14
[34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Here, "your women" are clearly "your wives", and NOT just any women in general, in that they were instructed to leave their questions to be answered by "their husbands at home", and not in the church. When Paul, while specifically speaking of WIVES, said "they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law", he was alluding to what God said to Eve in Genesis 3:16 in relation to her husband ruling over her.
Again, this "ruling" is in no way, shape, or form the equivalent of DOMINANCE or ABUSE. Instead, it is to be the same type of "rulership" which was continually demonstrated in Christ's life or that which has been rightly called "servant kingship". In other words, the one who is the chiefest is the servant of all (Mark 10:44).
Anyhow, I wrote a rather long treatise on this very topic my first time through here as "Live4Him".
If anyone is interested in reading it, then you can do so here:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/should-women-teach-should-you.198735/#post-4547539
For example, we read:
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)
After the Fall, when God told Eve "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee", God was, in context, reproving Eve for her desire to rule over her husband or to not be in subjection to his God-given authority over her. Authority, I must add, which God equates with ACCOUNTABILITY in scripture, and never with DOMINANCE or ABUSE, or authority to watch over and protect her in the same manner that Christ does with his church.
In fact, God used the same exact language that he did with Eve when he later spoke to Cain.
We read:
Genesis chapter 4
[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Here, sin was personified ("his" and "him") in that Satan was the one who was truly lying at Cain's door (I John 3:12).
In the same manner in which Cain was sin's or Satan's "desire" that Cain need to "rule over", so, too, was Adam's headship Eve's "desire" which Adam needed to "rule over".
Paul alluded to this Biblical truth when he said:
I Corinthians chapter 14
[34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Here, "your women" are clearly "your wives", and NOT just any women in general, in that they were instructed to leave their questions to be answered by "their husbands at home", and not in the church. When Paul, while specifically speaking of WIVES, said "they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law", he was alluding to what God said to Eve in Genesis 3:16 in relation to her husband ruling over her.
Again, this "ruling" is in no way, shape, or form the equivalent of DOMINANCE or ABUSE. Instead, it is to be the same type of "rulership" which was continually demonstrated in Christ's life or that which has been rightly called "servant kingship". In other words, the one who is the chiefest is the servant of all (Mark 10:44).
Anyhow, I wrote a rather long treatise on this very topic my first time through here as "Live4Him".
If anyone is interested in reading it, then you can do so here:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/should-women-teach-should-you.198735/#post-4547539
I've shared a lot of horror stories from my failed marriage in the past, but I went into my marriage with my eyes wide open.
I think that I mentioned this once before, but if so, then it bears repeating.
My ex and I got engaged on November 17, 2000 and married just three months later on February 17, 2001.
BELIEVE ME, during that three month gap, I spent a lot of time fasting and praying. I understood the seriousness of marriage and what it represents to the world (Christ and his church), and I wasn't willing to risk taking a huge misstep by marrying someone who God didn't truly instruct me to marry.
Anyhow, one night, while fasting and praying, I had a vision.
In my vision, I was in the garden of Eden and witnessing the Fall of man.
There was only ONE ASPECT of the Fall that the Spirit of God illuminated severely to me:
Adam's hearkening to the voice of his wife over the voice of God which ultimately brought sin, death, and a curse into this world.
Genesis chapter 3
[17] And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
[18] Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
In other words, God FEARFULLY AND HEAVILY impressed upon my spirit that I was NEVER to hearken unto the voice of my wife when I knew that he was telling me to do something contrary to what she was telling me or seeking to coerce me to do.
Well, let's just say that God knew what he was doing.
I say that because, throughout almost the entirety of my marriage (it was good, initially), my ex sought to get me to do every type of evil imaginable, and I never once submitted to her "desires". In fact, this is precisely why she always sought to manipulate me into obeying her evil "desires" by slandering me to everybody imaginable in order that I might somehow cave to the constant peer pressure that was mounted against me.
She turned everyone imaginable against me:
"Pastors" (read: hirelings), whole congregations of churches (PLURAL), family members on her side, family members on my side, Police Officers (more than once), lawyers (I constantly received threatening letters from them which were based solely upon lies she had told them), judges (PLURAL), our children's teachers and guidance counselors, neighbors, my customers at work, etc., etc., etc.
As I've testified here many times in the past, I not only had to defend myself in court against her phony charges (I won by a landslide), but she literally even wrote letters to Oprah Winfrey, and Daymond John and Barbara Corcoran from "The Shark Tank" about me (I still have copies of those letters). In other words, I was constantly "demonized" as an alleged perpetrator of "multiple cases of domestic violence and child abuse" in order that she might fleece these people of monies out of misplaced sympathy for her.
Anyhow, I never once caved. It wasn't easy, and there were literally times when I was battling to keep my sanity because it's hard to live a life in which everybody who knows you believes that you're a Satanic piece of
, but, by the grace of God, I endured.
So, yeah, this whole problem between husbands and wives began way back in the garden of Eden, and it continues unto this day.
That said, God has provided the cure through Jesus Christ, but both men and women need to fulfill their God-given roles if this ship is ever to be righted.
The choice is ours.
I think that I mentioned this once before, but if so, then it bears repeating.
My ex and I got engaged on November 17, 2000 and married just three months later on February 17, 2001.
BELIEVE ME, during that three month gap, I spent a lot of time fasting and praying. I understood the seriousness of marriage and what it represents to the world (Christ and his church), and I wasn't willing to risk taking a huge misstep by marrying someone who God didn't truly instruct me to marry.
Anyhow, one night, while fasting and praying, I had a vision.
In my vision, I was in the garden of Eden and witnessing the Fall of man.
There was only ONE ASPECT of the Fall that the Spirit of God illuminated severely to me:
Adam's hearkening to the voice of his wife over the voice of God which ultimately brought sin, death, and a curse into this world.
Genesis chapter 3
[17] And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
[18] Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
In other words, God FEARFULLY AND HEAVILY impressed upon my spirit that I was NEVER to hearken unto the voice of my wife when I knew that he was telling me to do something contrary to what she was telling me or seeking to coerce me to do.
Well, let's just say that God knew what he was doing.
I say that because, throughout almost the entirety of my marriage (it was good, initially), my ex sought to get me to do every type of evil imaginable, and I never once submitted to her "desires". In fact, this is precisely why she always sought to manipulate me into obeying her evil "desires" by slandering me to everybody imaginable in order that I might somehow cave to the constant peer pressure that was mounted against me.
She turned everyone imaginable against me:
"Pastors" (read: hirelings), whole congregations of churches (PLURAL), family members on her side, family members on my side, Police Officers (more than once), lawyers (I constantly received threatening letters from them which were based solely upon lies she had told them), judges (PLURAL), our children's teachers and guidance counselors, neighbors, my customers at work, etc., etc., etc.
As I've testified here many times in the past, I not only had to defend myself in court against her phony charges (I won by a landslide), but she literally even wrote letters to Oprah Winfrey, and Daymond John and Barbara Corcoran from "The Shark Tank" about me (I still have copies of those letters). In other words, I was constantly "demonized" as an alleged perpetrator of "multiple cases of domestic violence and child abuse" in order that she might fleece these people of monies out of misplaced sympathy for her.
Anyhow, I never once caved. It wasn't easy, and there were literally times when I was battling to keep my sanity because it's hard to live a life in which everybody who knows you believes that you're a Satanic piece of
, but, by the grace of God, I endured.So, yeah, this whole problem between husbands and wives began way back in the garden of Eden, and it continues unto this day.
That said, God has provided the cure through Jesus Christ, but both men and women need to fulfill their God-given roles if this ship is ever to be righted.
The choice is ours.
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I've shared a lot of horror stories from my failed marriage in the past, but I went into my marriage with my eyes wide open.
I think that I mentioned this once before, but if so, then it bears repeating.
My ex and I got engaged on November 17, 2000 and married just three months later on February 17, 2001.
BELIEVE ME, during that three month gap, I spent a lot of time fasting and praying. I understood the seriousness of marriage and what it represents to the world (Christ and his church), and I wasn't willing to risk taking a huge misstep by marrying someone who God didn't truly instruct me to marry.
Anyhow, one night, while fasting and praying, I had a vision.
In my vision, I was in the garden of Eden and witnessing the Fall of man.
There was only ONE ASPECT of the Fall that the Spirit of God illuminated severely to me:
Adam's hearkening to the voice of his wife over the voice of God which ultimately brought sin, death, and a curse into this world.
Genesis chapter 3
[17] And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
[18] Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
In other words, God FEARFULLY AND HEAVILY impressed upon my spirit that I was NEVER to hearken unto the voice of my wife when I knew that he was telling me to do something contrary to what she was telling me or seeking to coerce me to do.
Well, let's just say that God knew what he was doing.
I say that because, throughout almost the entirety of my marriage (it was good, initially), my ex sought to get me to do every type of evil imaginable, and I never once submitted to her "desires". In fact, this is precisely why she always sought to manipulate me into obeying her evil "desires" by slandering me to everybody imaginable in order that I might somehow cave to the constant peer pressure that was mounted against me.
She turned everyone imaginable against me:
"Pastors" (read: hirelings), whole congregations of churches (PLURAL), family members on her side, family members on my side, Police Officers (more than once), lawyers (I constantly received threatening letters from them which were based solely upon lies she had told them), judges (PLURAL), our children's teachers and guidance counselors, neighbors, my customers at work, etc., etc., etc.
As I've testified here many times in the past, I not only had to defend myself in court against her phony charges (I won by a landslide), but she literally even wrote letters to Oprah Winfrey, and Daymond John and Barbara Corcoran from "The Shark Tank" about me (I still have copies of those letters). In other words, I was constantly "demonized" as an alleged perpetrator of "multiple cases of domestic violence and child abuse" in order that she might fleece these people of monies out of misplaced sympathy for her.
Anyhow, I never once caved. It wasn't easy, and there were literally times when I was battling to keep my sanity because it's hard to live a life in which everybody who knows you believes that you're a Satanic piece of, but, by the grace of God, I endured.
So, yeah, this whole problem between husbands and wives began way back in the garden of Eden, and it continues unto this day.
That said, God has provided the cure through Jesus Christ, but both men and women need to fulfill their God-given roles if this ship is ever to be righted.
The choice is ours.
I think that I mentioned this once before, but if so, then it bears repeating.
My ex and I got engaged on November 17, 2000 and married just three months later on February 17, 2001.
BELIEVE ME, during that three month gap, I spent a lot of time fasting and praying. I understood the seriousness of marriage and what it represents to the world (Christ and his church), and I wasn't willing to risk taking a huge misstep by marrying someone who God didn't truly instruct me to marry.
Anyhow, one night, while fasting and praying, I had a vision.
In my vision, I was in the garden of Eden and witnessing the Fall of man.
There was only ONE ASPECT of the Fall that the Spirit of God illuminated severely to me:
Adam's hearkening to the voice of his wife over the voice of God which ultimately brought sin, death, and a curse into this world.
Genesis chapter 3
[17] And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
[18] Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
In other words, God FEARFULLY AND HEAVILY impressed upon my spirit that I was NEVER to hearken unto the voice of my wife when I knew that he was telling me to do something contrary to what she was telling me or seeking to coerce me to do.
Well, let's just say that God knew what he was doing.
I say that because, throughout almost the entirety of my marriage (it was good, initially), my ex sought to get me to do every type of evil imaginable, and I never once submitted to her "desires". In fact, this is precisely why she always sought to manipulate me into obeying her evil "desires" by slandering me to everybody imaginable in order that I might somehow cave to the constant peer pressure that was mounted against me.
She turned everyone imaginable against me:
"Pastors" (read: hirelings), whole congregations of churches (PLURAL), family members on her side, family members on my side, Police Officers (more than once), lawyers (I constantly received threatening letters from them which were based solely upon lies she had told them), judges (PLURAL), our children's teachers and guidance counselors, neighbors, my customers at work, etc., etc., etc.
As I've testified here many times in the past, I not only had to defend myself in court against her phony charges (I won by a landslide), but she literally even wrote letters to Oprah Winfrey, and Daymond John and Barbara Corcoran from "The Shark Tank" about me (I still have copies of those letters). In other words, I was constantly "demonized" as an alleged perpetrator of "multiple cases of domestic violence and child abuse" in order that she might fleece these people of monies out of misplaced sympathy for her.
Anyhow, I never once caved. It wasn't easy, and there were literally times when I was battling to keep my sanity because it's hard to live a life in which everybody who knows you believes that you're a Satanic piece of
, but, by the grace of God, I endured.So, yeah, this whole problem between husbands and wives began way back in the garden of Eden, and it continues unto this day.
That said, God has provided the cure through Jesus Christ, but both men and women need to fulfill their God-given roles if this ship is ever to be righted.
The choice is ours.
"All the narcissists I have known have been christians... You almost certainly will not be able to change the minds of church leadership toward the narcissist. They are often the last ones to see the damage these folks can do... I wish there was a more helpful and effective way of dealing with narcissists, particularly in the church. But the truth is that these people usually win... Churches and volunteer organizations are poorly prepared to deal with predators of any kind. It would probably be better just to find another church."
https://graceformyheart.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/the-christian-narcissist/
Very good vision about Eden. Women have unconsciously harbored hatred for men for Adam yielding to Eve in Eden. You see the same thing now: women want men to yield to them but hate men who do.
Why did you marry a Jezebel? God doesn't lead a person to marry someone who is not equally yoked. What a terrible waste of life. She tried to destroy you because that's what they do. They are part of the most anomalous group of human beings in existence and have lucifer's spiritual genetics which is why they're so turbulent, destructive, disagreeable. If the relationship was "good initially" but then she kept trying to destroy you, that's because the good part was her phony facade and the second stage was the real her. You're lucky to have gotten out of that one.
That's a very fair question, but let me turn it back on you:
Why did God marry the nation of Israel while knowing full well in advance that she would repeatedly play the whore and that he would ultimately give her a writing of divorcement?
As I've said before, marriage is a lot more than just sitting on a sofa while sipping hot chocolate and watching a Hallmark movie. In other words, there are a lot of other variable involved, and those variables often aren't too pretty.
Did my ex try to destroy me?
YES...multiple times every single day for many, many years.
Here's another question for you:
Did Joseph's brothers seek to destroy him?
How did that turn out?
What my ex meant for evil, BELIEVE ME, God turned for good.
In other words, as I've testified here in the past, in the midst of my "fiery trials" (that doesn't even sound adequate enough to describe what I went through), God removed truckloads of "dross" from my own heart as I allowed him to. I went into my marriage as a God-fearing devout Christian, but I came out of it infinitely better than when I first entered it.
With all that I've said about my marriage in the past, I don't know that I've ever said this:
Whom the Son sets free is free indeed.
Why am I mentioning this?
Because when I was going through that whole ordeal for years, there was always some inner turmoil churning or bubbling within me as God was exposing so many different things in my own heart.
Now?
I can talk about these things as if I'm talking about something that happened to somebody else. I've got total peace inside myself, and the only griefs that I still feel are for my ex's spiritual condition and for any psychological damage that might have been caused to our three children throughout this whole ordeal.
Personally, I'm fine.
Anyhow, it was God's likening of my ordeal to his own ordeal with the nation of Israel that saw me through many a difficult situation.
Of course, every "pastor" (read: hireling) that I spoke to throughout my ordeal sought to condemn me while telling me that God would never have me marry such a woman. I still remember the day when one "pastor" (ditto) was "praying for me" (read: religiously rebuking me under the guise of prayer) WHEN GOD REBUKED HIM RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS PRAYER.
I'll never die of boredom.
That's for sure.
Why did God marry the nation of Israel while knowing full well in advance that she would repeatedly play the whore and that he would ultimately give her a writing of divorcement?
As I've said before, marriage is a lot more than just sitting on a sofa while sipping hot chocolate and watching a Hallmark movie. In other words, there are a lot of other variable involved, and those variables often aren't too pretty.
Did my ex try to destroy me?
YES...multiple times every single day for many, many years.
Here's another question for you:
Did Joseph's brothers seek to destroy him?
How did that turn out?
What my ex meant for evil, BELIEVE ME, God turned for good.
In other words, as I've testified here in the past, in the midst of my "fiery trials" (that doesn't even sound adequate enough to describe what I went through), God removed truckloads of "dross" from my own heart as I allowed him to. I went into my marriage as a God-fearing devout Christian, but I came out of it infinitely better than when I first entered it.
With all that I've said about my marriage in the past, I don't know that I've ever said this:
Whom the Son sets free is free indeed.
Why am I mentioning this?
Because when I was going through that whole ordeal for years, there was always some inner turmoil churning or bubbling within me as God was exposing so many different things in my own heart.
Now?
I can talk about these things as if I'm talking about something that happened to somebody else. I've got total peace inside myself, and the only griefs that I still feel are for my ex's spiritual condition and for any psychological damage that might have been caused to our three children throughout this whole ordeal.
Personally, I'm fine.
Anyhow, it was God's likening of my ordeal to his own ordeal with the nation of Israel that saw me through many a difficult situation.
Of course, every "pastor" (read: hireling) that I spoke to throughout my ordeal sought to condemn me while telling me that God would never have me marry such a woman. I still remember the day when one "pastor" (ditto) was "praying for me" (read: religiously rebuking me under the guise of prayer) WHEN GOD REBUKED HIM RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS PRAYER.
I'll never die of boredom.
That's for sure.
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Did God lead you to marry her?
The Bible says God works all things (good and bad) for good for those who love Him. However, it doesn't say He works all things (ie. He causes good and bad) but that He molds them for good. Did He tell or lead you to marry her or did you marry her and then He worked it out for good? That's my question.
The Bible says God works all things (good and bad) for good for those who love Him. However, it doesn't say He works all things (ie. He causes good and bad) but that He molds them for good. Did He tell or lead you to marry her or did you marry her and then He worked it out for good? That's my question.
Yes, it is definitely corrupt, which is why I quoted from the KJV to begin with. But as the KJV is probably less easily understood in this instance (resulting in your initial comment, where you questioned whether the desire was really Cain's for sin, rather than sin's for Cain), I then used a more reliable version of the NIV (which certainly is still corrupt, but in other, more key passages).
The word 'desire' used is an unloving desire - a lust or seeking to take possession of, to control. To take an alternative view to this means one must also take the view that sin's desire for Cain can be taken in a romantic sense (which is unrealistic, in my opinion).
The word 'desire' used is an unloving desire - a lust or seeking to take possession of, to control. To take an alternative view to this means one must also take the view that sin's desire for Cain can be taken in a romantic sense (which is unrealistic, in my opinion).
Oof. That's the type of mystery I like to get into and find all the 'whys' and not just stop with the 'whats'. While we have an exception here and there, like Hosea, we should always operate primarily by the rule first.
The rule is that God tells believers to be equally yoked, to marry people who are 'believers like them', and the Bible says that believers have nothing in common with unbelievers, "what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness" (2Corinthians 6:14-17). Even if your ex could be called a believer, she was not a believer like you: you cared and safeguarded people; she did the very opposite.
You don't have to go any deeper into this, but if you want to: how did God tell you to marry your ex, what events led to and confirmed it was God, and did other people also confirm it? I'm asking because such a marriage doesn't line up with the rule in the Bible; however, it might fit under an exception.
In the Bible, exceptions are few and far between. Some examples of exceptions are Job (God delivered Job to satan which isn't God's normal MO), Hosea (who had to marry a prostitute), Jeremiah or Ezekiel (or whichever prophet God told not to marry at all), and Samson (who, due to his call, couldn't drink wine or cut his hair).
The rule is that God tells believers to be equally yoked, to marry people who are 'believers like them', and the Bible says that believers have nothing in common with unbelievers, "what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness" (2Corinthians 6:14-17). Even if your ex could be called a believer, she was not a believer like you: you cared and safeguarded people; she did the very opposite.
You don't have to go any deeper into this, but if you want to: how did God tell you to marry your ex, what events led to and confirmed it was God, and did other people also confirm it? I'm asking because such a marriage doesn't line up with the rule in the Bible; however, it might fit under an exception.
In the Bible, exceptions are few and far between. Some examples of exceptions are Job (God delivered Job to satan which isn't God's normal MO), Hosea (who had to marry a prostitute), Jeremiah or Ezekiel (or whichever prophet God told not to marry at all), and Samson (who, due to his call, couldn't drink wine or cut his hair).
Excuse my plainness of speech, but it's very troubling/grievous to me, as someone who has read the Bible from cover to cover many times and many books of the Bible literally 100 times or more, to hear someone say that someone like Hosea, WHOSE RELATIONSHIP WAS ORDAINED BY GOD TO REFLECT HIS OWN MARITAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NATION OF ISRAEL, is "the exception".
In other words, when did God himself, or literally Christ who is the true "bridegroom" (Matt. 9:15, 25:1, 5-6, 10, Mark 2:19-20, Luke 5:34-35, John 3:29), become "the exception" and not "the rule"?
The correct answer to this question is NEVER.
Methinks (meknows) that people have been so brainwashed that they can't even see what is truly in the pages of the Bible from cover to cover.
Whether anybody likes it or not, or whether anybody embraces this absolute truth or not, God (Christ) himself entered into a covenant with the nation of Israel that he REPEATEDLY likened to a marriage covenant, and he did so while fully knowing in advance that she would repeatedly play the whore against him (just like my ex ultimately did) and ultimately be given a bill of divorce (even as my ex ultimately divorced me).
Again, if that truly is "the rule", then Christ himself broke it when he entered into a covenant that he likened to a marital covenant with a bunch of mostly unbelievers at Mt. Sinai:
Jeremiah chapter 31
[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
I trust that you already know this, but there were 603,550 men who were 20 years old and upward who came out of Egypt, and out of those 603,550 men who God entered into this MARITAL COVENANT with, God overthrew, in his wrath, 603,548 of them in the wilderness. Only Joshua and Caleb survived because they "wholly followed the LORD" (Numbers 32:11-12) or remained faithful to this covenant.
In fact, God (Christ) contemplated wiping out all of those Israelites to whom he entered into this MARITAL COVENANT with at Mt. Sinai while they were still in Egypt or before their exodus:
Ezekiel chapter 20
[1] And it came to pass in the seventh year, in the fifth month, the tenth day of the month, that certain of the elders of Israel came to inquire of the LORD, and sat before me.
[2] Then came the word of the LORD unto me, saying,
[3] Son of man, speak unto the elders of Israel, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Are ye come to inquire of me? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will not be inquired of by you.
[4] Wilt thou judge them, son of man, wilt thou judge them? cause them to know the abominations of their fathers:
[5] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when I chose Israel, and lifted up mine hand unto the seed of the house of Jacob, and made myself known unto them in the land of Egypt, when I lifted up mine hand unto them, saying, I am the LORD your God;
[6] In the day that I lifted up mine hand unto them, to bring them forth of the land of Egypt into a land that I had espied for them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands:
[7] Then said I unto them, Cast ye away every man the abominations of his eyes, and defile not yourselves with the idols of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
[8] But they rebelled against me, and would not hearken unto me: they did not every man cast away the abominations of their eyes, neither did they forsake the idols of Egypt: then I said, I will pour out my fury upon them to accomplish my anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt.
[9] But I wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted before the heathen, among whom they were, in whose sight I made myself known unto them, in bringing them forth out of the land of Egypt.
Why did Christ enter into a MARITAL RELATIONSHIP with those whom he contemplated pouring out his fury upon previously?
It's a legitimate question.
Do YOU have an answer for it?
Do you believe that God is omniscient or all-knowing?
I do.
Again, why did Christ enter into a MARITAL RELATIONSHIP with those who he knew in advance would repeatedly play the whore against him...only to eventually be given a bill of divorce:
Jeremiah chapter 3
[1] They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.
[2] Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness.
[3] Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.
[4] Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My father, thou art the guide of my youth?
[5] Will he reserve his anger for ever? will he keep it to the end? Behold, thou hast spoken and done evil things as thou couldest.
[6] The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
[7] And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
[8] And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Again, when Christ himself becomes "the exception", something is TERRIBLY AMISS.
Anyhow, this brief testimony that I posted not too long ago ought to at least begin to answer your questions:
https://christianchat.com/christian...an-to-be-alone-but.206544/page-6#post-4891047
God definitely told me and my ex to marry each other. We both prayed about it extensively, and so did a bunch of other people. Initially, our marriage was fine. It wasn't until Christ himself began to place his finger upon certain things in my ex's heart that the trouble began. In other words, she ultimately wasn't willing to fully submit to Christ's desire for her life. As a direct result, she rebelled against him, and I was basically collateral damage.
By the way, have you paused to consider the following?
"What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matt. 19:6, Mark 10:9)
In other words, men and women can "put asunder", or disjoin, or separate that which God himself has truly "joined together"...and that is precisely what happened in my marriage.
Psssst.
That's also precisely what happened in Christ's MARITAL RELATIONSHIP with most of the nation of Israel.
Again, when the MARITAL RELATIONSHIP between Christ and the nation of Israel, a MARITAL RELATIONSHIP which is described REPEATEDLY throughout the pages of the Bible, is called "the exception"...well, let's just say that causes me to tremble for those who say such things.
Anyhow, in no way am I seeking to describe my own relationship as "the rule", but I am hoping that people will consider Christ's relationship when formulating their own beliefs.
In other words, when did God himself, or literally Christ who is the true "bridegroom" (Matt. 9:15, 25:1, 5-6, 10, Mark 2:19-20, Luke 5:34-35, John 3:29), become "the exception" and not "the rule"?
The correct answer to this question is NEVER.
Methinks (meknows) that people have been so brainwashed that they can't even see what is truly in the pages of the Bible from cover to cover.
Whether anybody likes it or not, or whether anybody embraces this absolute truth or not, God (Christ) himself entered into a covenant with the nation of Israel that he REPEATEDLY likened to a marriage covenant, and he did so while fully knowing in advance that she would repeatedly play the whore against him (just like my ex ultimately did) and ultimately be given a bill of divorce (even as my ex ultimately divorced me).
Again, if that truly is "the rule", then Christ himself broke it when he entered into a covenant that he likened to a marital covenant with a bunch of mostly unbelievers at Mt. Sinai:
Jeremiah chapter 31
[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
I trust that you already know this, but there were 603,550 men who were 20 years old and upward who came out of Egypt, and out of those 603,550 men who God entered into this MARITAL COVENANT with, God overthrew, in his wrath, 603,548 of them in the wilderness. Only Joshua and Caleb survived because they "wholly followed the LORD" (Numbers 32:11-12) or remained faithful to this covenant.
In fact, God (Christ) contemplated wiping out all of those Israelites to whom he entered into this MARITAL COVENANT with at Mt. Sinai while they were still in Egypt or before their exodus:
Ezekiel chapter 20
[1] And it came to pass in the seventh year, in the fifth month, the tenth day of the month, that certain of the elders of Israel came to inquire of the LORD, and sat before me.
[2] Then came the word of the LORD unto me, saying,
[3] Son of man, speak unto the elders of Israel, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Are ye come to inquire of me? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will not be inquired of by you.
[4] Wilt thou judge them, son of man, wilt thou judge them? cause them to know the abominations of their fathers:
[5] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when I chose Israel, and lifted up mine hand unto the seed of the house of Jacob, and made myself known unto them in the land of Egypt, when I lifted up mine hand unto them, saying, I am the LORD your God;
[6] In the day that I lifted up mine hand unto them, to bring them forth of the land of Egypt into a land that I had espied for them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands:
[7] Then said I unto them, Cast ye away every man the abominations of his eyes, and defile not yourselves with the idols of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
[8] But they rebelled against me, and would not hearken unto me: they did not every man cast away the abominations of their eyes, neither did they forsake the idols of Egypt: then I said, I will pour out my fury upon them to accomplish my anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt.
[9] But I wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted before the heathen, among whom they were, in whose sight I made myself known unto them, in bringing them forth out of the land of Egypt.
Why did Christ enter into a MARITAL RELATIONSHIP with those whom he contemplated pouring out his fury upon previously?
It's a legitimate question.
Do YOU have an answer for it?
Do you believe that God is omniscient or all-knowing?
I do.
Again, why did Christ enter into a MARITAL RELATIONSHIP with those who he knew in advance would repeatedly play the whore against him...only to eventually be given a bill of divorce:
Jeremiah chapter 3
[1] They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.
[2] Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness.
[3] Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.
[4] Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My father, thou art the guide of my youth?
[5] Will he reserve his anger for ever? will he keep it to the end? Behold, thou hast spoken and done evil things as thou couldest.
[6] The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
[7] And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
[8] And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Again, when Christ himself becomes "the exception", something is TERRIBLY AMISS.
Anyhow, this brief testimony that I posted not too long ago ought to at least begin to answer your questions:
https://christianchat.com/christian...an-to-be-alone-but.206544/page-6#post-4891047
God definitely told me and my ex to marry each other. We both prayed about it extensively, and so did a bunch of other people. Initially, our marriage was fine. It wasn't until Christ himself began to place his finger upon certain things in my ex's heart that the trouble began. In other words, she ultimately wasn't willing to fully submit to Christ's desire for her life. As a direct result, she rebelled against him, and I was basically collateral damage.
By the way, have you paused to consider the following?
"What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matt. 19:6, Mark 10:9)
In other words, men and women can "put asunder", or disjoin, or separate that which God himself has truly "joined together"...and that is precisely what happened in my marriage.
Psssst.
That's also precisely what happened in Christ's MARITAL RELATIONSHIP with most of the nation of Israel.
Again, when the MARITAL RELATIONSHIP between Christ and the nation of Israel, a MARITAL RELATIONSHIP which is described REPEATEDLY throughout the pages of the Bible, is called "the exception"...well, let's just say that causes me to tremble for those who say such things.
Anyhow, in no way am I seeking to describe my own relationship as "the rule", but I am hoping that people will consider Christ's relationship when formulating their own beliefs.
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As a possession. In Song of Solomon 7, the lover is describing his beloved. His intention is to take hold of her as a possession. In verse 10, it indicates that she belongs to her beloved, and his desire is for her.
Song of Solomon 7:1 - 10 How beautiful are thy feet with shoes, O prince's daughter! the joints of thy thighs are like jewels, the work of the hands of a cunning workman.
Thy navel is like a round goblet, which wanteth not liquor: thy belly is like an heap of wheat set about with lilies.
Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins.
Thy neck is as a tower of ivory; thine eyes like the fishpools in Heshbon, by the gate of Bathrabbim: thy nose is as the tower of Lebanon which looketh toward Damascus.
Thine head upon thee is like Carmel, and the hair of thine head like purple; the king is held in the galleries.
How fair and how pleasant art thou, O love, for delights!
This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes.
I said, I will go up to the palm tree, I will take hold of the boughs thereof: now also thy breasts shall be as clusters of the vine, and the smell of thy nose like apples;
And the roof of thy mouth like the best wine for my beloved, that goeth down sweetly, causing the lips of those that are asleep to speak.
I am my beloved's, and his desire is toward me.
Song of Solomon 7:1 - 10 How beautiful are thy feet with shoes, O prince's daughter! the joints of thy thighs are like jewels, the work of the hands of a cunning workman.
Thy navel is like a round goblet, which wanteth not liquor: thy belly is like an heap of wheat set about with lilies.
Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins.
Thy neck is as a tower of ivory; thine eyes like the fishpools in Heshbon, by the gate of Bathrabbim: thy nose is as the tower of Lebanon which looketh toward Damascus.
Thine head upon thee is like Carmel, and the hair of thine head like purple; the king is held in the galleries.
How fair and how pleasant art thou, O love, for delights!
This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes.
I said, I will go up to the palm tree, I will take hold of the boughs thereof: now also thy breasts shall be as clusters of the vine, and the smell of thy nose like apples;
And the roof of thy mouth like the best wine for my beloved, that goeth down sweetly, causing the lips of those that are asleep to speak.
I am my beloved's, and his desire is toward me.
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I think this and Genesis 3 are confirmation of the dynamic that God gave for man and woman in marriage.
The world says, "My body! MY choice!"
When we get saved, we are told truthfully,
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."
Then marriage introduced another.
From the time that they become one flesh in that committed relationship, the man and woman belong to each other.
The world likes to look at marriage as a business agreement that can be broken at any whim. God gives marriage as an agreement for life. I think that some have experienced a marriage that was outside of God's will where much pain was the result. That clouds their perspective. Instead of taking responsibility for their decision in violation of God's Word about choosing a wrong wife or husband, and how to solve problems, they blame God instead.
The world says, "My body! MY choice!"
When we get saved, we are told truthfully,
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."
Then marriage introduced another.
From the time that they become one flesh in that committed relationship, the man and woman belong to each other.
The world likes to look at marriage as a business agreement that can be broken at any whim. God gives marriage as an agreement for life. I think that some have experienced a marriage that was outside of God's will where much pain was the result. That clouds their perspective. Instead of taking responsibility for their decision in violation of God's Word about choosing a wrong wife or husband, and how to solve problems, they blame God instead.
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That can make sense.
You're conflating 'rules and exceptions' with 'common and uncommon'. Yes, everyone who has read the Bible knows about Israel's unfaithfulness. The Bible says that the OT (and now the NT) was written as an example, and forewarning and foreshadow, for us. We can correctly assume that as most of Israel was unfaithful to God, most christians will be unfaithful to Christ. However.
Jesus is coming for a pure, spotless Bride. The Bible tells us to be 'perfect' even as God is perfect. That is the rule. At that time, all the exceptions will be left behind. Common can look like the rule, and uncommon can look like the exception. But as far back as the OT, God stated this rule to Abraham: "I am God Almighty. Walk before Me, and be perfect" (Genesis 17:1). He stated that He was the Highest and therefore can make the rules. With God, perfect is the rule, and it's the only rule. But God is gracious and because people usually go with the exception, God allows the exception.
In spite of the carnal nature's influence on everyone, the rule of faithfulness and purity lives in all women who-- even when they don't protect their sexual purity-- will hide any spot, impurity, or stain of unfaithfulness, because faithfulness and purity for women (and for the Bride of Christ) is the rule. No matter how promiscuous a woman is, this rule remains alive in her, and shame and guilt constantly hover as a reminder. (Only a Jezebel will not care or be harried by this rule because Jezebels don't submit to God's or any Law.) Both from the man's and woman's perspectives, faithfulness and sexual purity is the rule for all women just as it was for ancient Israel and as it is for the Body of Christ-- whether or not each group is in fact faithful.
So, unfaithfulness is common; but it's not the rule. God's rules never change. He might 'bend' them for us (eg. divorce, marrying more than one person, etc.), but He doesn't change them. I've asked God for the rule (ie. what is uncommon) in my wife; I haven't asked Him for the exception (ie. what is common). I'll never settle for the exception; I need the rule. God was talking to me about my wife long before I started talking to Him about her. He wants to give me 'a helper suitable for me', not someone who'll bring heartache and destruction.
Above all things, God is reciprocal. When He has a say, He often gives people what they are seeking (which might not be what they want; eg. the Lake of Fire). Because of God's Law of Reciprocity, I can't just ask for a wife who is 'perfect' and not strive to be 'perfect' myself. God believes in equal yokes; within the Godhead, there is a perfect equal yoke. That is the rule: "Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers" (2Cor. 6:14). I choose the rule over the exception, because while the rule is harder to live by, it's much safer, stabler, and more fulfilling than the exception.
Psalm 37:4 says, "Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart." That is the rule. The exception would be "Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will bring down your heart." The second quote is an exception that can happen, as with Hosea, but it is an exception, not a rule.
When exceptions are in play-- ie. when God seems to be doing something that isn't part of His Nature, like giving you a blessing and adding sorrow with it-- I think it's best to ask questions. You don't have to defend your position. With all the deceptive doctrines out there, all the false prophetic words out there, and *all the emotional decisions people make out there, I'm just wondering why and how God told you and her to marry.
*Remember, you said yourself that the church people didn't take your side and rather sided with your ex when it began going downhill. Were these the same church people who told you and her you were to be married? If they were, then how can you trust that what they told you came from God if they turned on you afterward?
"The blessing of the Lord makes rich, and He adds no sorrow with it" (Proverbs 10:22).
You're conflating 'rules and exceptions' with 'common and uncommon'. Yes, everyone who has read the Bible knows about Israel's unfaithfulness. The Bible says that the OT (and now the NT) was written as an example, and forewarning and foreshadow, for us. We can correctly assume that as most of Israel was unfaithful to God, most christians will be unfaithful to Christ. However.
Jesus is coming for a pure, spotless Bride. The Bible tells us to be 'perfect' even as God is perfect. That is the rule. At that time, all the exceptions will be left behind. Common can look like the rule, and uncommon can look like the exception. But as far back as the OT, God stated this rule to Abraham: "I am God Almighty. Walk before Me, and be perfect" (Genesis 17:1). He stated that He was the Highest and therefore can make the rules. With God, perfect is the rule, and it's the only rule. But God is gracious and because people usually go with the exception, God allows the exception.
In spite of the carnal nature's influence on everyone, the rule of faithfulness and purity lives in all women who-- even when they don't protect their sexual purity-- will hide any spot, impurity, or stain of unfaithfulness, because faithfulness and purity for women (and for the Bride of Christ) is the rule. No matter how promiscuous a woman is, this rule remains alive in her, and shame and guilt constantly hover as a reminder. (Only a Jezebel will not care or be harried by this rule because Jezebels don't submit to God's or any Law.) Both from the man's and woman's perspectives, faithfulness and sexual purity is the rule for all women just as it was for ancient Israel and as it is for the Body of Christ-- whether or not each group is in fact faithful.
So, unfaithfulness is common; but it's not the rule. God's rules never change. He might 'bend' them for us (eg. divorce, marrying more than one person, etc.), but He doesn't change them. I've asked God for the rule (ie. what is uncommon) in my wife; I haven't asked Him for the exception (ie. what is common). I'll never settle for the exception; I need the rule. God was talking to me about my wife long before I started talking to Him about her. He wants to give me 'a helper suitable for me', not someone who'll bring heartache and destruction.
Above all things, God is reciprocal. When He has a say, He often gives people what they are seeking (which might not be what they want; eg. the Lake of Fire). Because of God's Law of Reciprocity, I can't just ask for a wife who is 'perfect' and not strive to be 'perfect' myself. God believes in equal yokes; within the Godhead, there is a perfect equal yoke. That is the rule: "Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers" (2Cor. 6:14). I choose the rule over the exception, because while the rule is harder to live by, it's much safer, stabler, and more fulfilling than the exception.
Psalm 37:4 says, "Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart." That is the rule. The exception would be "Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will bring down your heart." The second quote is an exception that can happen, as with Hosea, but it is an exception, not a rule.
When exceptions are in play-- ie. when God seems to be doing something that isn't part of His Nature, like giving you a blessing and adding sorrow with it-- I think it's best to ask questions. You don't have to defend your position. With all the deceptive doctrines out there, all the false prophetic words out there, and *all the emotional decisions people make out there, I'm just wondering why and how God told you and her to marry.
*Remember, you said yourself that the church people didn't take your side and rather sided with your ex when it began going downhill. Were these the same church people who told you and her you were to be married? If they were, then how can you trust that what they told you came from God if they turned on you afterward?
"The blessing of the Lord makes rich, and He adds no sorrow with it" (Proverbs 10:22).
As I've said before, there are many different variables involved.
Three obvious ones to me would be my/our three children.
After all, they came into this world as direct results of my ex's and my union, and their lives matter tremendously.
Have you ever read Jesus' genealogies?
Why did Jesus come into this world as a descendant of a sexual union between Judah and his daughter-in-law?
Everything isn't as cut and dry as you seem to think that it is.
Anyhow, I don't need to try to convince you or anybody else of anything.
As I've both said and meant before, my life is not the example.
At the same time, however, many of my experiences greatly mirror those of Christ's marriage to Israel, so there's that for the rest of you to hopefully consider before you wrongly accuse or condemn anybody (not that any of your opinions matter to me unless they align themselves with God's word).
If you never believe anything else that I say for the rest of my life, then believe this:
"Church people" are the last people on the face of this earth that I would ever go to for prayer.
At my end, my initial instruction and consequential confirmations (plural) all came directly from God.
I'll leave it at that.
Three obvious ones to me would be my/our three children.
After all, they came into this world as direct results of my ex's and my union, and their lives matter tremendously.
Have you ever read Jesus' genealogies?
Why did Jesus come into this world as a descendant of a sexual union between Judah and his daughter-in-law?
Everything isn't as cut and dry as you seem to think that it is.
Anyhow, I don't need to try to convince you or anybody else of anything.
As I've both said and meant before, my life is not the example.
At the same time, however, many of my experiences greatly mirror those of Christ's marriage to Israel, so there's that for the rest of you to hopefully consider before you wrongly accuse or condemn anybody (not that any of your opinions matter to me unless they align themselves with God's word).
If you never believe anything else that I say for the rest of my life, then believe this:
"Church people" are the last people on the face of this earth that I would ever go to for prayer.
At my end, my initial instruction and consequential confirmations (plural) all came directly from God.
I'll leave it at that.
It seems to me this is what Live4Him has done. He'd said in another comment that his pastor and the people of his church had basically taken his ex-wife's side and mistreated him when she began tearing him down and destroying him. If these people are the same who told him and her to marry...
John Bevere has an excellent book about discerning true and false personal prophecies. I can't say enough good things about the book. In a world full of books, this is one book that I know that has the potential to help christians tremendously-- even christians who don't believe in prophetic words. That's how potentially powerful the book is. Bevere quotes Jeremiah 15:19 at the start which is about discerning what [guidance] is and isn't from God: "If you extract the precious from the worthless, you will become My spokesman."
The book is brilliant and necessary in a world where many christians are open to hearing from God. Bevere talks about how the desires of our hearts can not only color what we think we hear from God but can also cause someone who is speaking a word to us from God to, instead, perceive what we want to hear and tell us that. Furthermore, and this is scary because I can attest that this does happen, Bevere reveals that God is willing to tell a person what the person wants to hear or insists on hearing. Bevere goes into the Bible, as far as the OT, to show how this has happened and does happen.
Bevere talks about christians who've been 'Defiled by Prophetic Words' (chapter 8) and whose lives were ruined by false words. Some couples were told to go into ministry but didn't have the money or tools and their marriage was shipwrecked; the 'idols in their hearts' (ie. what they strongly desired-- like being in ministry) had influenced others to unwittingly tell them what they wanted to hear. And Bevere has many other similar stories.
God didn't tell Ahab to marry Jezebel; He didn't tell Herod to marry Herodias; He never told a man to marry a troublesome woman, because the Bible says, "He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord" (Proverbs 18:22). The fact the man obtains favor/approval from God means this isn't saying that finding and marrying a woman is a good thing. Rather, it's saying that finding a faithful woman (ie. a wife) is a good thing that will gain you God's favor. Jesus is coming for a pure, spotless Bride, not an immature girl.
Furthermore, Hosea's marriage to Gomer was only as a prophetic example of God's marriage to Israel. A person who will do much for God (or a prophet) must be able to both know God's mind and feel God's feelings in order to be 100% successful. If there's anything that can shatter a man, it's an unfaithful wife. There's just nothing worse. That's why God used this terrible example. Hosea got to feel how God felt about Israel's unfaithfulness. God told Hosea to go and take Gomer from her prostituting and make her his wife. And in the end, Gomer stayed with him though he wouldn't sleep with her for a long time. This was all to symbolize God's own relationship, thoughts, and feelings about Israel.
I keep an open mind, but I can't yet see God's hand in Live4Him's marriage. christians marry the wrong person all the time. There's no shame in realizing that; the shame is in not even knowing it so then you can't [wisely] move on.
https://www.amazon.com/Thus-Saith-L...488972&sprefix=thus+saith+the+,aps,808&sr=8-1
John Bevere has an excellent book about discerning true and false personal prophecies. I can't say enough good things about the book. In a world full of books, this is one book that I know that has the potential to help christians tremendously-- even christians who don't believe in prophetic words. That's how potentially powerful the book is. Bevere quotes Jeremiah 15:19 at the start which is about discerning what [guidance] is and isn't from God: "If you extract the precious from the worthless, you will become My spokesman."
The book is brilliant and necessary in a world where many christians are open to hearing from God. Bevere talks about how the desires of our hearts can not only color what we think we hear from God but can also cause someone who is speaking a word to us from God to, instead, perceive what we want to hear and tell us that. Furthermore, and this is scary because I can attest that this does happen, Bevere reveals that God is willing to tell a person what the person wants to hear or insists on hearing. Bevere goes into the Bible, as far as the OT, to show how this has happened and does happen.
Bevere talks about christians who've been 'Defiled by Prophetic Words' (chapter 8) and whose lives were ruined by false words. Some couples were told to go into ministry but didn't have the money or tools and their marriage was shipwrecked; the 'idols in their hearts' (ie. what they strongly desired-- like being in ministry) had influenced others to unwittingly tell them what they wanted to hear. And Bevere has many other similar stories.
God didn't tell Ahab to marry Jezebel; He didn't tell Herod to marry Herodias; He never told a man to marry a troublesome woman, because the Bible says, "He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord" (Proverbs 18:22). The fact the man obtains favor/approval from God means this isn't saying that finding and marrying a woman is a good thing. Rather, it's saying that finding a faithful woman (ie. a wife) is a good thing that will gain you God's favor. Jesus is coming for a pure, spotless Bride, not an immature girl.
Furthermore, Hosea's marriage to Gomer was only as a prophetic example of God's marriage to Israel. A person who will do much for God (or a prophet) must be able to both know God's mind and feel God's feelings in order to be 100% successful. If there's anything that can shatter a man, it's an unfaithful wife. There's just nothing worse. That's why God used this terrible example. Hosea got to feel how God felt about Israel's unfaithfulness. God told Hosea to go and take Gomer from her prostituting and make her his wife. And in the end, Gomer stayed with him though he wouldn't sleep with her for a long time. This was all to symbolize God's own relationship, thoughts, and feelings about Israel.
I keep an open mind, but I can't yet see God's hand in Live4Him's marriage. christians marry the wrong person all the time. There's no shame in realizing that; the shame is in not even knowing it so then you can't [wisely] move on.
https://www.amazon.com/Thus-Saith-L...488972&sprefix=thus+saith+the+,aps,808&sr=8-1
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Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Here's an extreme example that was shared with me from two unbelievers.
An evangelical guy and a Mormon gal were partying and taking acid together. They claimed that "God" told them to get married in their acid induced vision. They went ahead and got married. I was asked why God would tell an evangelical and Mormon to get married.
🙄( Eyes rolling)
Here's an extreme example that was shared with me from two unbelievers.
An evangelical guy and a Mormon gal were partying and taking acid together. They claimed that "God" told them to get married in their acid induced vision. They went ahead and got married. I was asked why God would tell an evangelical and Mormon to get married.
🙄( Eyes rolling)
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