The Hostility Between Men & Women

[Live4Him3]

It seems to me this is what Live4Him has done. He'd said in another comment that his pastor and the people of his church had basically taken his ex-wife's side and mistreated him when she began tearing him down and destroying him. If these people are the same who told him and her to marry...

You can't even get the story right, so it's no surprise that you've also come to the totally wrong conclusion (not that it matters to me).

I never said that it was 'my pastor", nor did I ever say that they were "the people of my church".

In fact, this particular "pastor" (as I've said before, read: HIRELING) and "his church" (not mine) were only visited by me once ever...and that was all that I needed to see and hear.

I was vehemently opposed to that "pastor" and "his church", and I strongly advised my ex not to take our children there for fear that they would ultimately be turned away from God by confusing what was going on there with true Biblical Christianity. She actually sent me some threatening text messages in which she told me that she called her lawyer in relation to my advice, and that she had a legal right to take our children wherever she wanted to (I never said that she didn't).

Anyhow, get your story straight before trying to draw any conclusions.

I've also already told you that no human being had any say at my end as to my marital commitment to my now ex-wife, but that all of my instructions came from God himself.

Why the need for the rewrite or is it that you simply can't understand plain English?

Furthermore, my two daughters told me that that "pastor" had a sexual thing for my son. Had they told me that at that time, then...well, let's just say that I might presently have my own prison ministry...from within a prison cell myself.

 

[Lynx]

Why the need for the rewrite or is it that you simply can't understand plain English?

Nah, it's not a rewrite. It's just jumping to conclusions, like he's been doing since he got here.

Just pretend you're talking to... Uh... Well I'd better not say his name or some people will get mad... Just pretend you're talking to a certain political figure who is also famous for jumping to absurd conclusions and stating them as fact.

(Replying to Live4Him3)

 

[Live4Him3]

Nah, it's not a rewrite. It's just jumping to conclusions, like he's been doing since he got here.

Just pretend you're talking to... Uh... Well I'd better not say his name or some people will get mad... Just pretend you're talking to a certain political figure who is also famous for jumping to absurd conclusions and stating them as fact.

(Replying to Live4Him3)

But it is a rewrite.

I can easily "quote" what I've actually said in relation to the "pastors" (HIRELINGS) and "churches" (undiscerning and gullible fools), and I never once stated, implied, or even insinuated that they were "my pastor" or "my church".

In fact, the only reason that I bothered trying to reason with any of these "pastors" (there were a few of them from different "churches") is directly related to this:

Matthew chapter 18

[15] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

I had unsuccessfully addressed my ex's sins with her directly already, and I couldn't even find two or three witnesses to help me address them with her further because she had successfully turned everybody and their grandmother against me. The only other option that I had available to me was to "tell it unto the church", and I did exactly that, to no avail, at at least three different "churches".

I also tried speaking to a "Christian counselor" that my ex and I both knew, but if you knew what transpired then and there, then you'd know why I ultimately rebuked that "counselor" from head to toe.

Anyhow, I really couldn't care less, from a strictly personal point of view, what anybody here (or elsewhere) believes about me. God knows what happened because he was there through all of it. In fact, my go-to verse during my ordeal, in order to help me to keep my own sanity, was this one:

"He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? He that formed the eye, shall he not see?" (Psalm 94:9)

When everything is said and done, I will appear before the judgment seat of Jesus Christ...and not the judgment seat of SoC or any other member here.

On that day, I'll appear before the one who heard everything and saw everything, and as fearful a reality as that can be, it can also be quite comforting as far as Divine justice is concerned.

That's about all that I have to say on this matter.

 

[Lynx]

Yeah that's what I mean. He made the wild leap to the conclusion that it was your church where this all went down.

If it had been a rewrite, he would have had to erase some things. All he did was add a few things you never said.

 

[Live4Him3]

Yeah that's what I mean. He made the wild leap to the conclusion that it was your church where this all went down.

If it had been a rewrite, he would have had to erase some things. All he did was add a few things you never said.

I literally just had an outburst of laughter.

I don't know...something that you said triggered some more memories of the things that I endured in relation to these "pastors" and "churches" solely by the mercy and grace of God.

Some of them were so bad that they're almost comical.

 

[GaryA]

As a possession. In Song of Solomon 7, the lover is describing his beloved. His intention is to take hold of her as a possession. In verse 10, it indicates that she belongs to her beloved, and his desire is for her.

Song of Solomon 7:1 - 10 How beautiful are thy feet with shoes, O prince's daughter! the joints of thy thighs are like jewels, the work of the hands of a cunning workman.
Thy navel is like a round goblet, which wanteth not liquor: thy belly is like an heap of wheat set about with lilies.
Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins.
Thy neck is as a tower of ivory; thine eyes like the fishpools in Heshbon, by the gate of Bathrabbim: thy nose is as the tower of Lebanon which looketh toward Damascus.
Thine head upon thee is like Carmel, and the hair of thine head like purple; the king is held in the galleries.
How fair and how pleasant art thou, O love, for delights!
This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes.
I said, I will go up to the palm tree, I will take hold of the boughs thereof: now also thy breasts shall be as clusters of the vine, and the smell of thy nose like apples;
And the roof of thy mouth like the best wine for my beloved, that goeth down sweetly, causing the lips of those that are asleep to speak.
I am my beloved's, and his desire is toward me.

His desire is to 'have' her, not to 'control' her.

The "sense" of my word 'have' is more loving in nature; the "sense" of my word 'control' is more hard/harsh in nature.

Any "sense" of 'possession' in this passage would be in a way more like 'have' and not in a way more like 'control'.

I just don't see the "sense" of 'control' - as some in this thread are proposing - in any of those verses. (Genesis 3:16, 4:7; Song of Solomon 7:10)

I think it is being [mentally] "superimposed" onto the verses of scripture. It is not really actually there in the 'grammar of the language'.

The "sense" of the word 'desire' in these verses is one of 'longing' - a natural yearning [of the heart].

It does not harmonize with the "sense" of 'control' - an intellectual intent [of the mind].

 

[GaryA]

It is absolutely true that many women wish only to control their husbands; however, I just don't think this is a direct result of something God built into Eve.

 

[GaryA]

Rather, I believe it is an outworking of the deceptions of Satan in the world as a catalyst to human pride, selfishness, etc.

 

[GaryA]

The Biblical wife-and-mother ["nurturing" kind of] "natural disposition" is what God put into Eve.

And, He told her that this would be her "natural desire" in life - to be a helper to/for her husband. (And, under his rule.)

 

[GaryA]

And, of course, to take care of [her] children.

(Sorry about not getting all of my thoughts into one post...)

 

[GaryA]

The words 'his' and 'him' in Genesis 4:7 are not referring to 'sin' - you have Cain ruling over sin - think about it...

No Christian "rules over" sin; rather, we "rule over" ourselves so that we do not sin.

With regard to the 'grammar of the language', the only 'control' factor in all of this is present in the rule/ruling aspect of it.

 

[GaryA]

With regard to the 'grammar of the language', the word 'desire' in these verses is not referring to "controlling" anything...

 

[GaryA]

Therefore, the will of a woman to control her husband does not come directly from something God put into her as a natural tendency.

Any "natural tendency" we have "to sin" - does not come from God.

Our "natural tendency to sin" comes from the flesh; however, God did not put it into us "with purpose" to cause us to sin.

The will of a woman to control her husband is sin. God did not put something into her "with purpose" to cause her to sin.

 

[GaryA]

I just don't see the "sense" of 'control' - as some in this thread are proposing - in any of those verses. (Genesis 3:16, 4:7; Song of Solomon 7:10)

I said this in the context of the discussion concerning the word 'desire'.

In the word 'rule'/'ruling' in these verses - yes; in the word 'desire' in these verses - no.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Here's an extreme example that was shared with me from two unbelievers.

An evangelical guy and a Mormon gal were partying and taking acid together. They claimed that "God" told them to get married in their acid induced vision. They went ahead and got married. I was asked why God would tell an evangelical and Mormon to get married.
🙄( Eyes rolling)

"God told [us] to get married" happens a lot.

I once knew a woman who was married with six kids. She was very vulnerable and wounded (much of it probably from her husband). She and her husband were separated and living apart but still married. Then there was this Jezebel (a male) who swooped in with his guitar in hand, singing christian songs and playing the part. Some christian women swooned over him. This woman who was still married told me and others that God had told her it was her destiny for her and this Jezebel fraud to marry. I told her the Jezebel was just using her. Several years later, I went by to see the ministry the Jezebel was running. He was married to an entirely different woman who was also vulnerable and wounded. "God told me" and "God told us" doesn't necessarily mean God said a word.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

Anyhow, get your story straight before trying to draw any conclusions.

One of the reasons I know and understand so much is because I feel no need to 'get my story straight'. I don't have to have everything perfect before I can take a step or move. I make mistakes along the way, but I'm 'along the way'. Most others are hiding and backpedaling from who knows what because they're scared of making mistakes and 'being exposed' as human beings rather than as the gods, or superhumans, they are supposed to appear to be.

The Bible tells us to test all things. You didn't just say you and your ex married and divorced; you said God told you to marry. So, I decided to come and test if it was God who told you to marry. If you don't want me testing this, you don't have to answer my questions. You're not supposed to be getting angry when someone wants to find out something for themselves rather than listening to others' opinions and 'truth' on it.

In that Rochester, NY church in 2006, a German couple visited from Germany. They were ministers. Or so it seemed. But when God brought them to my mind one day, I told Him, "You've heard what everyone else says about them... But I have no rest in my spirit about them. So, what do You say about them?" Everyone thought the Germans were good christians, but God showed me that they were satanists posing as ministers. He showed everyone else this once He'd shown the pastors and they admitted it was true. If I'd listened to everyone else who was convinced that the Germans were God's ministers (ie. were from God), those satanists would never have been exposed. I don't accept what people say (or how people look) on face value. Especially when someone says, "God told me this" or "God did this" and it doesn't fit God's normal modus operandi, I'm going to be asking questions to see whether or not it was in fact God.

In 1Kings 22, four hundred prophets gave a false prophetic word to the king telling him that God said that he should go into battle and that he would prevail. Only one prophet came forward and warned the king that God was not telling him to go to battle and that he would die if he went. The king decided to listen to the majority and to go battle, and he died there. It doesn't matter who says what or how many people are saying the same thing. The truth matters most in the end. As of this time, I don't see and cannot see that God told you to marry a woman who was not only going to destroy you but who would also encourage you to dive even deeper into your own sense of righteousness and find solace in "No matter what happens, I was right. My intentions were loving, so I did what was good." It adds up from your 'rescuer' and 'persecuted' point of view. It is not adding up with God's character. God threw you to a wolf and now you're lost, seeking love. If God threw you to the woman who wouldn't love you, why doesn't He find you a woman who will.

 

[Live4Him3]

One of the reasons I know and understand so much is because I feel no need to 'get my story straight'.

You're a legend in your own mind.

I'm not the least bit angry, btw.

You're just clueless, and that's on you, not on me.

It's ironic how you speak so much about others who are "false" this and "false" that when you're so far removed from the Spirit of truth yourself.

Later...

 

[Lynx]

You're a legend in your own mind.

I'm not the least bit angry, btw.

You're just clueless, and that's on you, not on me.

It's ironic how you speak so much about others who are "false" this and "false" that when you're so far removed from the Spirit of truth yourself.

Later...

Ooooooh that tears it! He gonna put you on ignore for SURE now!

 

[Lynx]

The Bible tells us to test all things. You didn't just say you and your ex married and divorced; you said God told you to marry. So, I decided to come and test if it was God who told you to marry. If you don't want me testing this, you don't have to answer my questions. You're not supposed to be getting angry when someone wants to find out something for themselves rather than listening to others' opinions and 'truth' on it.

Someone is not supposed to be getting angry when you start making up stuff about him?

We say true things about you and you get mad and put us on ignore. You make up stuff about people and they are not supposed to get angry?

Really? We're supposed to play by THOSE rules?

Make us.

 

[Live4Him3]

Someone is not supposed to be getting angry when you start making up stuff about him?

We say true things about you and you get mad and put us on ignore. You make up stuff about people and they are not supposed to get angry?

Really? We're supposed to play by THOSE rules?

Make us.

Lol.

I'm truly not angry.

He just needs a lot of help.