The Nice Guy

[nw2u]

I still read that post as a smart alleck remark to Miss O'Connor and degrading to others. You may disagree with me if you like. I'm not trying to disparage tourist.

Moving on and trying to get back on topic. How many here commenting have read the book in question? How many of you have read any book that is closely related? If you haven't, how could you have any idea what the authors are talking about? How could you have any idea what they mean by the term, "nice guy"? What gives you the right to come out "guns blazing" against anyone trying to understand it better?

Do you think by posting angry thoughts you are helping the OP to understand or are you just attempting to refute and belittle anything different? Are you all afraid of anything you don't understand? Aren't you embarrassed by how you portray yourselves? Some of you who call yourselves adults, really need to think about your definition of that word.

 

[Utah]

I still read that post as a smart alleck remark to Miss O'Connor and degrading to others. You may disagree with me if you like. I'm not trying to disparage tourist.

Moving on and trying to get back on topic. How many here commenting have read the book in question? How many of you have read any book that is closely related? If you haven't, how could you have any idea what the authors are talking about? How could you have any idea what they mean by the term, "nice guy"? What gives you the right to come out "guns blazing" against anyone trying to understand it better?

Do you think by posting angry thoughts you are helping the OP to understand or are you just attempting to refute and belittle anything different? Are you all afraid of anything you don't understand? Aren't you embarrassed by how you portray yourselves? Some of you who call yourselves adults, really need to think about your definition of that word.

Molly may in fact be the sweetest, most Christlike individual on CC, and everyone sees that. If anyone was being disrespectful or cruel to her, that person would have endured the wrath of many watchful eyes and caring hearts. So though I personally disagree with your take that she was mistreated, especially by someone with Tourist's integrity, I applaud you and honor you for looking out for her.

Now as far as your last sentence, I grew up once. I didn't like it.

 

[nw2u]

Molly may in fact be the sweetest, most Christlike individual on CC, and everyone sees that. If anyone was being disrespectful or cruel to her, that person would have endured the wrath of many watchful eyes and caring hearts. So though I personally disagree with your take that she was mistreated, especially by someone with Tourist's integrity, I applaud you and honor you for looking out for her.

Now as far as your last sentence, I grew up once. I didn't like it.

I'm sorry, Utah. Have you looked into therapy?

 

[Utah]

I'm sorry, Utah. Have you looked into therapy?

I have no need for therapy, thank you. But on that note, you show your true colors for belittling people who in fact do need help through prayer and counsel. You're sorely lacking in discernment and maturity for 53, and you're a sad example of Christianity for not being able to handle truth and sound inquiries. But I digress. Carry on.

 

[Lynx]

nw2u I think you really need to quit while you are just a little bit behind (you're not going to ever get ahead this way.) Your initial complaint was in error - tourist was not insulting anybody and you grossly misinterpreted what he said. Now you are just digging your hole deeper and deeper.

 

[jsr1221]

I still read that post as a smart alleck remark to Miss O'Connor and degrading to others. You may disagree with me if you like. I'm not trying to disparage tourist.

Moving on and trying to get back on topic. How many here commenting have read the book in question? How many of you have read any book that is closely related? If you haven't, how could you have any idea what the authors are talking about? How could you have any idea what they mean by the term, "nice guy"? What gives you the right to come out "guns blazing" against anyone trying to understand it better?

Do you think by posting angry thoughts you are helping the OP to understand or are you just attempting to refute and belittle anything different? Are you all afraid of anything you don't understand? Aren't you embarrassed by how you portray yourselves? Some of you who call yourselves adults, really need to think about your definition of that word.

How's this... How about asking Molly what she thought of this?

 

[tourist]

I'm sorry, Utah. Have you looked into therapy?

I certainly meant no harm to Molly by my post. I want to thank Utah and Lynx for their support and kind words. I'm sorry that you now find it necessary to disparage Utah. Please, let's forget all of this and start moving forward.

 

[PoetMary]

MORE #2

Where do you think dictionary definitions come from?

Dictionaries don't CREATE definitions.
A dictionary only REPORTS a definition.

So what DOES create a a definition?

YOU.
ME.
All the people USING the words.

All of us, who USE language, create the definitions of the words, as we USE them.
Dictionaries then OBSERVE how we use the words, and REPORT these OBSERVATIONS.
Dictionaries don't create definitions.
Dictionaries are CONTINUALLY UPDATED... why?
Because LANGUAGE IS CONTINUALLY CHANGING.

Poet,
Please don't turn a discussion of LINGUISTICS into a discussion about PHILOSOPHY.
They are two different things.

Linguistics covers HOW WE TALK ABOUT THINGS.
Philosophy covers HOW THINGS ACTUALLY ARE.

How we talk about things, and how things actually are... are completely different concepts, and fields of study.

Actually, dictionaries report on recorded language. So one person's idiosyncratic use of a word would not be reported. If this usage spreads and is suddenly used in a lot of print material as well as various audio and video sources, only THEN does it become "accepted usage."

The idea that everyone's usage of a word is equally valid is NOT a linguistical concept, but a philosophical concept.

In other words, the idea that linguistics and philosophy are two distinct fields isn't entirely correct. EVERY academic field engages with philosophy because underlying philosophies determine decisions that are made within every field of study.

 

[maxwel]

Actually, dictionaries report on recorded language. So one person's idiosyncratic use of a word would not be reported. If this usage spreads and is suddenly used in a lot of print material as well as various audio and video sources, only THEN does it become "accepted usage."

The idea that everyone's usage of a word is equally valid is NOT a linguistical concept, but a philosophical concept.

In other words, the idea that linguistics and philosophy are two distinct fields isn't entirely correct. EVERY academic field engages with philosophy because underlying philosophies determine decisions that are made within every field of study.

Mary,

I can pull up authors, and philosophers, and academic papers all day....
but lets skip that, and just get to the real issue.

WHY are you arguing with me about THIS SPECIFIC WORD, IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE?
WHY?

All you have to do is READ THE THREAD,
and you can CLEARLY SEE,
that people ARE using all kinds of different, personal definitions, for the phrase "NICE GUY".

YOU CAN SEE THIS WITH YOUR OWN EYES.

So, if you can see it happening, right in this thread, with your own eyes....
why are we arguing about it?

 

[egeiro]

Oh my goodness, I made myself read (some, I skimmed) the posts of this thread before I answered, and I think I just gave myself a head ache. What an awkward but slightly amusing family gathering!

I looked up my bible as well as goggled the word 'nice' to see where and how it is used in the bible, and from what I gathered it is not used in the Word at all. What I believe is, the word 'nice' does not show up for a reason: 'nice' is not a very powerful word. We say that 'good' and 'kind' are synonyms to the word 'nice', however, they are far weightier in meaning than 'nice' seems to be.

I believe that Jesus was not merely a 'nice guy'. He turned the world upside down, and yet we are called to pattern our lives after Him. Many of you have already given examples of Jesus acting out in righteous anger or passion, all of which are acts that cannot be categorised as 'nice'. Jesus' ministry on earth was -powerful- which He did in all meekness, gentleness, kindness, self-control and yet He demonstrated righteous anger, passion, furious love, and boldness as He said what the Father was saying, which at times was highly controversial.

As Christ's representatives, there are times to be bold and courageous, there are times to exercise self-control and kindness, there are times to stand up for injustice, the matter at hand is to have the wisdom and discernment to know when to respond in which way to what circumstance.

Now, from a very personal level, I wouldn't date just another 'nice' guy. Yes, I would look for a man who is good, kind, gentle, loving and all those great things, but a marriage between two people requires more than that. I've dated men who fit that profile, but at the end of the day, I didn't have full confidence they could lead or protect me.

From what I have seen, marriage requires hard work and has its rounds of battles to fight. I am not saying that married people ought to fight each other, but there is ultimately a fight for connection and a fight to protect that connection. Many people around me have gotten married and all they tell me about is how hard it is. I admit, this has slightly put me off relationships in this season, but I want to know the person I decided to do life with is going to stand by me through better or through worse, and is going to stand up and be everything God has called them to be as a husband.

I am not asking for perfection, but I desire a man who loves the Lord more than me and who is resting and surrendered in everything God has called him to be. I desire a man who allows the living Word of God to shape him and God's thoughts about him to define him, and as far as I'm concerned, the bible has so much more to say than to be merely 'nice'. I believe you can love others so much more powerfully if you shift from being nice to being a powerful lover, like Jesus was, is and will always be.

 

[Tintin]

Well said.

 

[egeiro]

I looked up my bible as well as goggled...

I mean 'googled'! Lol.

..

....

... although goggles are sometimes appropriate for certain threads. Maybe. Perhaps.

 

[RickyZ]

I wouldn't propose a guy to be a "nice guy". Atleast not it is current form or definition.

Nice-Guy's are repulsive to women, because they lack confidence, are push-overs, think their self-righteous niceness deserves them a date, and generally are people pleasers. A woman wants a protector, provider, and someone who can push back when push comes to shove. Nice-guys by today's standards are the complete opposite of this. And to put it bluntly, a little bit feminine.

You can be kind, you can be a gentlemen, but any guy who gets called a nice-guy by a woman is like a death wish. Yeah she may "say" nice things about you, but you'll never get a chance to be with her ever.

I would say its better to just work on yourself, be kind, not nice, design your own destiny, and if a woman likes you or see's where your going in life, than she will come after you, you won't have to go to her. How do I know this? Because I was a nice-guy for 25 years, but as soon as I stopped be nice and started working on myself and my own destiny, that is when destiny found me.

I am not trying to be hard on anyone here, I am just being hard on myself and telling myself what really happened those 25 years for me.

Here's an experiment for you:

Get a woman to make a list of all the qualities she wants in a man

Go out an find a man who embodies all those qualities

Arrange for them to innocently 'bump into each other'

I've got $100 that says she won't give him the time of day.

 

[PoetMary]

Mary,

I can pull up authors, and philosophers, and academic papers all day....
but lets skip that, and just get to the real issue.

WHY are you arguing with me about THIS SPECIFIC WORD, IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE?
WHY?

All you have to do is READ THE THREAD,
and you can CLEARLY SEE,
that people ARE using all kinds of different, personal definitions, for the phrase "NICE GUY".

YOU CAN SEE THIS WITH YOUR OWN EYES.

So, if you can see it happening, right in this thread, with your own eyes....
why are we arguing about it?

We're not arguing about the usage of nice. We're arguing about usage in general.

Part of the reason there IS an argument about this word is because people are too proud and self-involved to engage with standard usage. They perceive a word to mean X and they insist that is "the meaning" of the word. And all of this is based on a universalization of their connotation.

People can go on like this all day long. But part of the problem with insisting that one's connotative understanding is what the word "really means" is that it actually IMPEDES communication. Instead of saying something like, "Wow, my understanding of this is completely wrong," they continue to insist that they are right and everyone is wrong.

If a person steals money from a friend, we're all clear that is selfish behavior. If a person fails to take care of a sibling and instead goes to a rock concert, we're all clear that is selfish behavior. So now, let's say this person is too proud/ignorant/unconcerned to engage with the standard usage of words....instead this person walks around insisting that his/her usage is what the word means. Is this selfish behavior?

 

[RickyZ]

Don't make me laugh. Your the generation that failed this generation. Who was responsible for raising these kids? Thats right, you and your peers. But you all partied your years away, only caring about yourselves & the love of rock n roll to care what happened to your children. Even the baby boomer generation has taken advantage of the youth today. You want to know why these kids are so messed up? Look in the mirror. It was the older folks who were the leaders and those leaders failed them. Kids aren't born screw ups, their parents certainly help push them along.



If my words burn you, then the shoe must fit you perfectly and if you honestly think I would be different, i'll gladly give you my address and you can "come take care of this kid". I'm sure your violence will serve Christ well.



And i'll be watching you get stuck in your ways.

I personally am ashamed and aghast at the children my generation has raised. Even more appalled at the generation they then raised. And absolutely terrified by the generation coming up now.

Which is why I am glad I made the choice to never have kids. The environment is just not conducive to their proper upbringing any more.

 

[PoetMary]

Here's an experiment for you:
Get a woman to make a list of all the qualities she wants in a man
Go out an find a man who embodies all those qualities
Arrange for them to innocently 'bump into each other'
I've got $100 that says she won't give him the time of day.

This is a rather cynical view of women. It embodies one or more false ideas:

1. That women are too foolish/childlike/frivolous/lacking in insight to know what they really want.
2. That women know what they want, but can't be bothered to accurately report it (in other words, they lie).
3. That women are too foolish/childlike/frivolous/disingenuous/lacking in insight to recognize a real man who embodies all the characteristics they claim to want.
4. That women are inherently cruel to men who don't embody the characteristics that they claim to want but will inevitably fail to recognize.

Seriously, if that's your view of women, you need to ask God to give you HIS perspective on women and womanhood.

The capacity for people to think they want one thing, but to realize (in the end) that it doesn't really matter is a HUMAN capacity. The capacity for falsely self-report...human. The capacity to not recognize a good thing when it's in front of you...human. The capacity to be cruel to someone when your own expectations are not met....also human. So, what you claim is a female issue is actually the capacity for sin found within all of humanity.

I could give you plenty of examples of men who did (and do) all the things you've listed, but here's one: Josh Duggar. Duggar claimed to want XYZ for a wife...and he got it...and then proceeded to cheat on her. Was she not submissive enough (even though she's been groomed her entire life in a Christian community to fit a very particular idea of "submissive")? Was she not sexual enough (even though they're clearly having enough relations for her to be pregnant with her fourth child within six years of being married)? Did she choose her career over his devoted love (uh wait, she has no career...she's always been a stay-at-home wife and mom)?

Would it be right for me to claim that Josh Duggar is representative of ALL Christian men? That all Christian men make claims about what they want in a woman/wife but they don't really want those things? That men are to stupid to know what they really want or too foolish to recognize it when they have it. Or is the problem SIN...and specifically the sin of a particular Christian man?

 

[RickyZ]

How many women here have dated a man who, when she asked where he wanted to eat Friday night on their date, almost always had no opinion. His answer might have been, "Wherever you want to go". Time after time it seems like he does this. How did that make you feel?

How many women here dated a man who, when you asked him to do something for you, did it, but then expected something in return later which was never discussed prior, and then he got passive aggressive when you said no?

How many women here dated a man who, only wanted to be clingy, constantly wanting to know what you were doing, and seemed to be always under foot? How did that make you feel?

How many women here dated a man who didn't have any decent male friends he could go fishing with on occasion(or insert whatever hobby you might find unoffensive or not detrimental for a decent Christian man)? What did you think when you realized he didn't have his own life?

These are a few of the things a "nice guy", not the kind Utah is talking about because that's the old term and still valid, might do. He is not usually kind. He seems to be looking to get something out of whatever he does, many times, because he is doing way too much and being too clingy.

How many men here have tried to make the woman an equal partner but found out they instead like being dictated to?

How many men here have given women what they asked for no strings attached, only to find they're never asked again?

How many men have shown interest in their woman's doings, only to be shut out of those doings?

How many men here have dated a woman who despised your fishing buddies and demanded you leave them? What did you think when they demanded you abandon your life?

How many men here have served as a shoulder to cry on when a woman is all broke up over the jerk she is chasing, only to see her start the chase all over again once the tears have dried?

These are a few of the things 'nice guys' endure in the face of women who claim to want a nice guy but chase after everything but.

 

[RickyZ]

This is a rather cynical view of women.

I have always treated women with respect. I have watched friends and acquaintances treat their women like sh-poop- and be rewarded with undying loyalty. I provided comfort for countless women who cried unceasingly because of the way they were treated by men. I've watched women time and again say they wanted a nice guy yet ran not walked to the nearest jerk, time and again. I've rescued many women from abusive relationships and settings, both personally and professionally.

Yet I couldn't get a woman's attention if I was on fire outside a boarding house.


***

Me cynical? Nah, I'm much too sarcastic for that

 

[RickyZ]

Man, I have got to quit rolling out of bed and coming here. Where's my coffee?

 

[GaryA]

Currently in RickyZ's signature:

Truth is available only to those who have the courage to question whatever they think they know.


I like this statement.

My signature is currently too close to the content limit, or I would probably add this to it...