What is the Difference Between "Happiness" and "Joy"?

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
16,245
5,212
113
#21
I'm reminded of a quote from someone wiser than I. "We speak of comfort and luxury as if they are necessary for happiness. All we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiastic about." Me, I'm enthusiastic about music. I'm also a minor minister and I'm pretty enthusiastic about the stuff I do as a minister. (Most of it is not preaching, by the way, but you already knew that.) I have and I do things that I enjoy and have positive effects. I'm not rich, I'm not really poor, but I'm content with my life.

Try looking at your abilities, looking at what you enjoy, and finding something you can do that fits those. If you already have, keep trying. Life is really boring, frustrating and futile without something to be enthusiastic about.
I don't want to turn this into an "All About Seoulsearch" thread :) but Lynx, I greatly appreciate that you would make the time and effort to not only look below the surface, but to also address it.

In many ways, I'm content with my life. But you are right in that I often seek meaning and purpose. The problem with me is that, while I can be the most boring person in the world, when it comes to a ministry, etc., there typically has to be some intensity to it to really catch my interest.

I've written about this before, but I was very passionate about prison ministry, and put a lot of my life into it for a long time. I had honestly thought I would be doing that for the rest of my life. Towards the end, I was also becoming interested in a ministry for veterans, but I can't describe the heartbreak that came when we found out that one of the veterans we'd spoken with had ended his life in a very extreme manner.

But there were so many things I loved about this kind of work: writing letters, and most important to me, receiving responses in exchange, talking TO people instead of AT people, and really getting to know about them and their lives one-on-one. This is crucial to me. I can no longer tolerate participating in one-sided ministries that preach to people (not counting regular church services.) Now, God bless them and there is certainly a place for them (every Sunday from the pulpit), but my passion is learning about other people, as well as sharing my own heart with them if they are interested.

I stopped doing this kind of work for reasons of personal safety and emotional burnout (which is why I learned I could never do it for a living, as I had originally intended.) For many years, I have wanted to get back into the game, but all the ministries I've found in this area are one-sided preaching ministries, which I have absolutely no interest in. If I can't get to know the people I'm talking to personally, please count me out.

I also have to confess that I have a fear of being vulnerable to that extent as well. At one time I tried ministries with female inmates as opposed to men, but found that the females were actually more manipulative than the men (this is just my own experience and certainly not an absolute.)

I backed away from the more intense programs and tried being on the local prayer team, but for whatever reason, people would sometimes fixate on me with their problems, and were sometimes calling me at all hours wanting to talk about the same circular problems all over again without wanting to take action. I just burned out and couldn't handle any of it anymore, to be honest.

So now I'm stuck between a craving... or calling, if you will... and knowing where it will take me (because I need something intense... if I subject myself to just serving in the toddler's room again I will go crazy), and fighting between wanting to serve, but fearing all the breakdowns that I know will come with it. (Intense work comes with intense threats, along with intensely unwanted advances and comments.)
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,309
2,136
113
#22
Hi Seoul.

Sometimes we just need to sit back for a while or season and rest in Jesus. Slow down.. take care of yourself for a while let Jesus work in you...let him take your burden. Don't be looking to solve others burdens at the moment ..just rest. Hos 6:6

Sometimes, God wants us just to be still before him..

lease dont take what I am saying the wrong way.. I mean it sincerely. Just sometimes, as I have learned myself we need to learn to be still with God rather than sacrificing for him.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
26,730
8,969
113
#23
Hmmm... thinking back over my post, I want to say that I did not mean to AT ALL imply you had an aimless life seoulsearch. I know you probably didn't take it that way but I wanted to state it for the record anyway.
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
6,058
3,373
113
#24
I would like to ask though, what happens when you get burned out on serving other people?

I've often said, the Christian Culture is a Catch 22. People will tell you, "Just start looking around and put your focus on other people." And if that's what you've done for a long time, you can burn out--sometimes severely.
Christian burn out is more common than many would think. When you look at the dynamic in a large majority of churches, a small minority of persons are doing all the work in the church serving everyone else. Eventually those persons spending all their time giving of themselves run dry.

Take a tip from the ministry of Christ, even He routinely would withdraw from the crowds to recharge.
 
Nov 25, 2014
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#25
This is a really interesting thought... I've never even considered vulnerability to be a part of joy... I'm going to have to ruminate on this one a while longer, because another underlying current is fear--the fear that the moment will pass and you won't have another moment that will be as good as the one currently being experienced.

And I have definitely felt this a lot in my life.

How about the rest of you?

The fear is a response to vulnerability. The ultimate expression of our vulnerability is loss. Brene Brown talks about coming up the stairs in her home and realizing that her children were sleeping peacefully in bed and that her husband was in their room waiting for her. Suddenly, she was hit with a great sense of joy...and immediately following was the fear of the LOSS of these loved ones. She thought to herself, "We really need to keep a bat here upstairs in case there is an intruder...but what if a bat isn't enough....should we get a gun???" Suddenly, the joy is gone and she's spinning in fear. She said her solution was to stop and immediately begin expressing gratitude.

There's a line from the movie Shadowlands, first said by Joy, and later by C.S. Lewis, "The pain now (after Joy's death) is part of the happiness then (when they traveled together to Cornwall)." Basically, it's expressing the idea that we cannot experience JOY unless we open ourselves to a corresponding experience of loss.

So, even the joy experienced in a good run, or a fine meal, or a sunset is tied into loss. We may have other good runs, but we'll never have that one again. We may see other sunsets, but not this one. In other words, you only get joy if you're vulnerable enough to ENTER THE MOMENT and get that it's just a moment. If you're unwilling to experience the pain of loss, you don't get joy....ever. That's how it works.

This means if you're like me and you've spent a goodly amount of your life creating things that are "solid" and "secure" as an attempt to insulate yourself from the pain of potential loss, then some of that training has to be undone.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#26
Hey Everyone,

This is actually a personal question I've always wondered: what is the difference between "being happy" and having "the joy of the Lord"?

Several months ago I read a devotional about a pastor who visited two women in the same day and noted the extreme differences in their outlooks on life.

The first woman was in her 40's, had a nice family and good husband, had all their bills paid, but was never happy. She wearily complained to the pastor about all the things she felt were wrong in her life, and never mentioned all the good things the pastor noticed. Nothing was ever right, and even when it was good, it could always be improved upon.

The second woman was in her 80's, was disabled with lots of health issues, and was living on a fixed income. But she joyfully told the pastor about all the wonderful blessings God had given her in her daily life, and made a note in her date book (about her meeting with the pastor), "Had a visitor--yet another happy day."

The first woman was obviously not happy, and she had no joy.

The second woman, I'm guessing, wasn't exactly happy with some of the challenges she was facing, but her joy was more than obvious (provided she was being honest and not just putting on a show. I've been in churches a long time, and yes, I'm cynical like that.)

* Which woman can you relate to in your own life? (I will flat-out confess--I am Woman #1, hands down.)

* What is the difference between happiness and joy?

* How is is possible to have joy but not happiness? And is it possible to be happy but not have joy?

I'm looking forward to your answers!!

And I hope everyone has a good day that's filled with both joy AND happiness. :)
WOW seoul this a really great topic:) I seem to find a huge difference in joy and happiness, in my own view happiness is based up something which means it can be lost. Many find happiness in all kinds of things but I notice that happiness is never everlasting and changes greatly based on circumstances. Joy however is a much higher level of happiness and a joyful person as I have personally seen is one that has a warm nature they are always smiling not the fake kind but a smile that has power in it a smile that draws people one that makes you happy just being around them. These types of people are able to remain happy regardless of life's circumstances regardless if they have enough or if they barely can make it through the week. when times of sorrow come these people help to mend a broken heart and spirit just because they have a joyful and warm heart.

You want to know a secret? I have met several of these kinds of people and none of them were Christians and they helped to mend broken hearts more effectively than I have ever seen any kind of Christian do. Even I am one of these people, when I had cancer with little to no chance of surviving the nurses and doctors would always say how my smile and my laughter would make their day and helped them to get through it, I have always had an innocent and warm kind of nature and heart. When you have cancer and you go through all of that and don't even have a good chance of surviving and yet you show such legit warmth such true happiness when people long to see your smile God is clearly at work here.

From my past I more than most people would be able to excuse me being miserable and I more than most would be prone to hate God to run from him, my past was gruesome and I haven't even shared a lot of it with you all in my testimony. I wish I could have realized back then how my warm and happy go lucky attitude was affecting the hearts around me, I had joy but even then eventually I would break.

But if our joy in in something or rather someone that everlasting our joy is never ceasing. Paul knew of this joy well no matter how harsh things became he had joy in the Lord whether he had any food or water or if he was in severe pain from persicution because of his deep love with God and for him and in turn had the same kind of love for others that God has for all others his joy was not based on circumstances nor was it limited to anything the enemy would throw his way.

To find true joy in the Lord a much deeper bond and love with him is needed a deeper more special connection a connection of the hearts
 

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2009
24,641
4,300
113
#27
Was Jesus always happy and joyful? I don't think so. I think he was calm and rational. I think he probably had moments of joy but he didn't go around with a perpetual smile on his face. He cried tears of blood in the garden when faced with the prospect of dying on the cross. He didn't smile and try to find joy in it.

The bible says be joyful always, but does that mean christians should never get depressed or angry or sad???
I don't know what it means except maybe that we are supposed to remind ourselves that our lives will end in victory (going to heaven).

1 Corinthians 3:15 ESV

If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#28
First of all, I would posit that Woman #1 was neither happy, NOR joyful. She experienced COMFORT and SECURITY in her life, but she wasn't experiencing pleasure (happiness) or any kind of greater connection to purpose, other people, and God (joy).

I have a feeling that lots of folks would describe happiness as fleeting and joy as lasting. I'm going to use information from Brene Brown to describe these ideas. Based on her work, the difference between happiness and joy is the accompanying experience of vulnerability. So, I could eat a good meal and experience happiness...the pleasure of that good meal. However, if I ate a good meal and experienced JOY, my pleasure in the meal would be accompanied by vulnerability...the sense of the inherent temporal nature of the meal and an understanding that there will never be another meal like it.

Brene Brown says that our culture has developed a sense of FOREBODING joy...that because joy requires vulnerability, we shy away from it by imagining worse case scenarios. So...back to the meal. I'm eating it and experiencing pleasure. I have a realization that this is fleeting. Instead of engaging with GRATITUDE for what I have in that moment and thereby leaning into both the joy and the vulnerability, I cut it off at the pass. I move into a scarcity mindset and then I OVEREAT because I fear no good meal will ever happen for me again. I have strangled vulnerability, but I've also lost joy.

Brene Brown says the #1 way to experience joy is to have a DAILY PRACTICE of gratitude. If we take time everyday to notice all that we have been given, then instead of fearing the vulnerability that accompanies joy, that vulnerability triggers in us a corresponding sense of gratitude.

So, I'm at my meal. I experience pleasure...the pleasure moves into joy. I have a sense of vulnerability and instead of squashing it, I begin to thank God for the lovely meal. I express gratitude for those who prepared it...for those who grew the food, etc. Suddenly, I'm right in that moment of joy.
Yeah, our little "connection" gal. Love her.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
26,730
8,969
113
#29
Okay, back to the OP.

For me joy is a personal outlook on life, where happiness is caused by things that happen in life. For example, I know some mothers who are generally cheerful. They have joy. But if their children misbehave they may not be necessarily happy at that particular moment. On the flipside there's this old lady... er, old woman at work who is always grouchy. No joy at all. If I were to bring a bag of candy to work and leave it in the break room, and if she were to partake of said candy, she would momentarily be happy. But she's still a big grump.
 
C

coby

Guest
#30
Hey Everyone,

This is actually a personal question I've always wondered: what is the difference between "being happy" and having "the joy of the Lord"?

Several months ago I read a devotional about a pastor who visited two women in the same day and noted the extreme differences in their outlooks on life.

The first woman was in her 40's, had a nice family and good husband, had all their bills paid, but was never happy. She wearily complained to the pastor about all the things she felt were wrong in her life, and never mentioned all the good things the pastor noticed. Nothing was ever right, and even when it was good, it could always be improved upon.

The second woman was in her 80's, was disabled with lots of health issues, and was living on a fixed income. But she joyfully told the pastor about all the wonderful blessings God had given her in her daily life, and made a note in her date book (about her meeting with the pastor), "Had a visitor--yet another happy day."

The first woman was obviously not happy, and she had no joy.

The second woman, I'm guessing, wasn't exactly happy with some of the challenges she was facing, but her joy was more than obvious (provided she was being honest and not just putting on a show. I've been in churches a long time, and yes, I'm cynical like that.)

* Which woman can you relate to in your own life? (I will flat-out confess--I am Woman #1, hands down.)

* What is the difference between happiness and joy?

* How is is possible to have joy but not happiness? And is it possible to be happy but not have joy?

I'm looking forward to your answers!!

And I hope everyone has a good day that's filled with both joy AND happiness. :)
Nr. 2
Joy is just veeeery happy.
the joy and choice to rejoice in the Lord at all times, like Paul in prison, makes you happy.
 
C

coby

Guest
#31
Was Jesus always happy and joyful? I don't think so. I think he was calm and rational. I think he probably had moments of joy but he didn't go around with a perpetual smile on his face. He cried tears of blood in the garden when faced with the prospect of dying on the cross. He didn't smile and try to find joy in it.

The bible says be joyful always, but does that mean christians should never get depressed or angry or sad???
I don't know what it means except maybe that we are supposed to remind ourselves that our lives will end in victory (going to heaven).

1 Corinthians 3:15 ESV

If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
Hebrews 12

looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of*our*faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Mourn with the mourning is a text.
Jesus wept over Jerusalem. He got angry in the temple.
 
C

coby

Guest
#32
I have a collegue. He has had cancer years ago and almost died but now he's healed.
He's always happy. He enjoys life to the max.
 

mar09

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2014
4,927
1,259
113
#33
When we were young, sis and i sang this after hearing from tv, but not knew all the words, and that it was from charlie brown.

https://livingandlearningtogether.w...cation-happiness-is-three-kinds-of-ice-cream/

And later this was sung in church: Joy is like the rain. I can only remember verses that relate to being blessed equating with joy. (w/ vid)

I saw rain drops on my window, Joy is like the rain.
Laughter runs across my pane, Slips away and comes again.
Joy is like the rain.

I saw clouds upon a mountain, Joy is like a cloud.
Sometimes silver, sometimes gray, Always sun not far away.
Joy is like a cloud.

I saw Christ in wind and thunder, Joy is tried by storm.
Christ asleep within my boat, Whipped by wind, yet still afloat,
Joy is tried by storm.

I saw rain drops on a river, Joy is like the rain,
Bit by bit the river grows, 'til all at once it overflows.
Joy is like the rain.


Once Upon a Diary: Joy is Like the Rain
 

jogoldie

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,616
48
48
#34
happiness is dealing with feelings and emotions...it comes and goes ...
joy is everlasting...a Spiritual thing...a Gift from God...when we are one with Him...jmo..
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#35
(with apologies for tripping into Singles... :rolleyes:)

do you guys think it's fair to say joy is inextricably linked to hope for Christians? i'm thinking of this:
These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. (Jn 15:11)

but since chapter divisions are a man made invention, my thoughts go to chapter 14 where the Lord Jesus made such great and precious promises and spoke such words of comfort to His disciples.

I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever...
I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you...
because I live, you will live also...
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful...

For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? (Rom 8:24)

prolly it's just me :p
but as i cling to the hope i have in Christ, i find my joy increasing. :)

 
N

NukePooch

Guest
#36
Some have a natural tendency to be happy, bubbly, cheerful, syrupy cheerleaders.
Some have a natural tendency to be sad, morose, bitter, angry, and GET OFF MY LAWN!
Some have a natural tendency to realize that life is composed of all of the above, and more.

I'm not a pessimist or an optimist. I prefer to think of myself as a realist.

I've had people accuse me of never being happy...and it always shocks me when they say that. Because I'm not the happy, bubbly, cheerful, syrupy cheerleader, they assume that I'm not happy.

I don't feel there is a difference between happiness and joy.

For me, where the difference lies is where your happiness/joy (in whatever level or form) comes from.
You can be outwardly overly happy and sugar and spice and everything nice, with or without God.
You can be the opposite as well.

I suck something awful at small talk, social situations, chatter, painting the town red, chewing the fat, shooting the breeze, etc. I am aloof, introverted, and quiet. I must therefore be sad, morose, bitter, angry, and GET OFF MY LAWN!

I am alive in God. He works through me, despite my issues...yet I am as He made me. I am not a cheerleader.

William-Arthur-Ward-pessimist-complains-about-the-wind.jpeg