What Would You Do If Your Significant Other Was Being Sexuall Harassed?

[CatHerder]

These kinds of situations can get so complicated -

One woman at the office can call everyone "Darlin'" and it is charming. Another can call everyone "Darlin'" and it is pretentious and/or condescending. A man calls people "Darlin'" and he is smarmy.

An outfit on one woman may look classy on one woman, and immodest on another. There are modest ways of dressing that will make me look twice at a woman - please note that this is different than undressing a woman with my eyes. These styles of dress mostly include a skirt with boots for business casual, or a ponytail through a baseball cap for a "thrown-together" look while errand running.

A man I know just the other day mentioned that he said "good morning" to one of his professors while with her in an elevator. She responded with "what's that supposed to mean?" Yes, there could have been some history there that he wasn't sharing with me, but as an isolated incident, I don't think we should excuse such behavior as "she's having a bad day" or "hormones" any more than we should excuse a man's bad behavior with "boys will be boys."

So overall, these things should be taken case-by-case. I don't think we can have a universal code of behavior. With my office mates, I speak more familiarly and flirty with some, and with others, I am more serious, but again, it depends on the context of the exchange. This also changes over time as the relationship changes.

OK, onward to the OP, which thankfully, was rather specific:

Yes, I do believe that Jim is sexually harassing Carrie. It is not overt, as she is not (yet) getting the message that her promotion or other company perks are on the line, but there is some intimidation going on. Jim knows exactly what he is doing. That is why he is not doing anything over the top.

As Carrie's boyfriend, would I intervene?

At the level presented in the scenario, no, I would not. If it escalated? Of course! But at this level, Jim is merely a pervy nuisance. Carrie needs to show Jim, others and herself that she is capable of taking care of herself in these situations. She could do a number of things when Jim mentions her hair and calls her "Secretary." She could just say "Jim, I've asked you not to call me that. Please be more professional with me in the future" as she walks away from him - thereby "dismissing" him. The language and body language of her response here will give Jim the message that she is in control, not him. After all, control and intimidation is at the core of sexual harassment. She could also raise her voice a little so that she is within the earshot of her office mates "I've asked you to call me by my name. Your behavior is bordering on the unprofessional." A little stronger would be to threaten him "Do I need to contact HR? You refuse to call me by my name, but rather by "Secretary," which is objectifying by turning me into a common porn fantasy. I don't appreciate that, and I expected a more professional behavior from you."

I would role-play Jim and have Carrie practice her response. So I guess I am supporting her in some way, but I think it best that she be perceived as someone who can handle her career. Still, I might sneak his car keys and stick some three day old salmon under his car seats on a hot June day...

 

[kenthomas27]

Hey Singles,

Just had a few thoughts on my mind today. I was thinking back to an old thread in which women said that one thing they looked for in a potential husband was a protector. One male poster asked why, because, as he said, we're not living in the days of hunting and gathering, and so, he reasoned, "What would women need to be protected from?" Today I was thinking of an answer to that question.

Normally I like to set the tone with a personal story--please note that the example here, however, is something made up and is based on a set of experiences I have heard or gone through myself. I won't give a specific example due to privacy issues, so you'll have to take it at face value.

Carrie is a 26-year-old employee at a company where the normal dress code is a polo shirt and khakis. Definitely nothing too short, high, low, or skimpy going on there, and Carrie always dresses as a modest Christian woman. She has been working there for 2 years. She minds her own business, cares about others, and is hard-working.

For several months, Jim, a co-worker in his 50's who has been with the company for 25 years and has more seniority than almost anyone else there takes an interest in Carrie, who works in another area of the company. She wears glasses and her hair in a conservative bun, and one day, Jim tells Carrie that conservative hairstyles like hers are "hot" and that she looks like a "professional secretary". He doesn't use "controversial" words like "sexy" or "naughty", but continuously tells her how "pretty" she is and calls her "Secretary", even though she has asked him to call her by her real name. Both Carrie and Jim are single.

Jim technically never does or says anything "inappropriate" but he's growing bolder in his comments, even asking Carrie to come work for him in his department. He's been known to say some "borderline" things to other women over the years but the company has never done anything to him because technically, he's not doing anything "wrong", and he is considered to be an important person there whom they would fight to keep.

Carrie has considered calling human resources, but what can she say? "A long-term employee keeps telling me how pretty he thinks I am and refuses to call me by my own name." He's not doing anything "inappropriate" to her and she doesn't have a way of proving it anyway.

How do you feel about something like this going on? To me, this is screaming with red flags all over the place and I would hope that I would be strong enough to encourage the person to stand up for themselves or get out altogether.

1. If you were Carrie's boyfriend, what would you do? Would you advise her to look for a new job and support her in that, even if it meant she would be out of work for a while, or would have to take a pay cut?

2. If you were Carrie's husband, and you'd just bought a new car, were paying for your child's medical condition, and were barely paying your rent/mortgage as it was, what would you want Carrie to do? How would you support her?

3. Ladies, the situation can easily be flipped around. I've heard stories of men who have women at work who "talk to them a little too much", or are "a little too friendly" in their words, gestures, and demeanors. If the man you were dating was facing this, what would you advise him to do?

4. Ladies, if you were married to him... and especially if he was the breadwinner in your family, would you encourage him to look for another job? Again, what if this meant he'd be out of work for some time (possibly even a year or more... we all know how hard it can be to find a job) or had to take a significant cut in pay, especially if he was the only one working?

I don't know what everyone else's experience has been, but unfortunately, to me, it seems all too common, and I've known some people who have gone through a lot worse--from a young woman whose boss threatened her for refusing his advances to a man who was being patted on the backside by a female co-worker.

This, to me, answers the question as to why so many women (and maybe men as well) are drawn towards someone they perceive as strong, independent, and yes, even protective.

We might not be living in prehistoric times, but unfortunately, we still often have to deal with uncivilized behaviors in our everyday lives.

I would love to hear your stories, comments, and personal strategies as to how you have, or would, deal with these types of situations. If you are the person who has been harassed, how did you handle it? Who supported you, and what did they do to back your decisions?

(For now, I've given up trying to give quick one-line summaries of my threads because I feel it's important to read the context before answering. Those who skip past the original post are still welcome to voice their thoughts, but I think the "flavor" of the thread is lost without even reading what inspired the thread to begin with.)

These kinds of situations can get so complicated -

One woman at the office can call everyone "Darlin'" and it is charming. Another can call everyone "Darlin'" and it is pretentious and/or condescending. A man calls people "Darlin'" and he is smarmy.

An outfit on one woman may look classy on one woman, and immodest on another. There are modest ways of dressing that will make me look twice at a woman - please note that this is different than undressing a woman with my eyes. These styles of dress mostly include a skirt with boots for business casual, or a ponytail through a baseball cap for a "thrown-together" look while errand running.

A man I know just the other day mentioned that he said "good morning" to one of his professors while with her in an elevator. She responded with "what's that supposed to mean?" Yes, there could have been some history there that he wasn't sharing with me, but as an isolated incident, I don't think we should excuse such behavior as "she's having a bad day" or "hormones" any more than we should excuse a man's bad behavior with "boys will be boys."

So overall, these things should be taken case-by-case. I don't think we can have a universal code of behavior. With my office mates, I speak more familiarly and flirty with some, and with others, I am more serious, but again, it depends on the context of the exchange. This also changes over time as the relationship changes.

OK, onward to the OP, which thankfully, was rather specific:

Yes, I do believe that Jim is sexually harassing Carrie. It is not overt, as she is not (yet) getting the message that her promotion or other company perks are on the line, but there is some intimidation going on. Jim knows exactly what he is doing. That is why he is not doing anything over the top.

As Carrie's boyfriend, would I intervene?

At the level presented in the scenario, no, I would not. If it escalated? Of course! But at this level, Jim is merely a pervy nuisance. Carrie needs to show Jim, others and herself that she is capable of taking care of herself in these situations. She could do a number of things when Jim mentions her hair and calls her "Secretary." She could just say "Jim, I've asked you not to call me that. Please be more professional with me in the future" as she walks away from him - thereby "dismissing" him. The language and body language of her response here will give Jim the message that she is in control, not him. After all, control and intimidation is at the core of sexual harassment. She could also raise her voice a little so that she is within the earshot of her office mates "I've asked you to call me by my name. Your behavior is bordering on the unprofessional." A little stronger would be to threaten him "Do I need to contact HR? You refuse to call me by my name, but rather by "Secretary," which is objectifying by turning me into a common porn fantasy. I don't appreciate that, and I expected a more professional behavior from you."

I would role-play Jim and have Carrie practice her response. So I guess I am supporting her in some way, but I think it best that she be perceived as someone who can handle her career. Still, I might sneak his car keys and stick some three day old salmon under his car seats on a hot June day...

Guys, my feeling is you just didn't provide enough detail.

 

[ServantStrike]

Is it just me or is this thread escalating rather more quickly than normal for CC Singles?

Although it's escalating along rather predictable lines... it almost feels like I know what the next salvo will be before it is fired.

Who knows.

It's the same old story, a couple of people draw a line in the sand and just start resorting to tried and true tactics. It's got elements of the modesty threads in it, so there is of course some shaming going on against the men folks. All in all it's pretty predictable isn't it?

I think people on the singles forum sometimes forget that life isn't fair and when you try and force it to be fair, it just ends up driving you mad.

 

[rachelsedge]

I said I would answer from a different perspective (other than the HR/company one), so here it is.

Ladies, the situation can easily be flipped around. I've heard stories of men who have women at work who "talk to them a little too much", or are "a little too friendly" in their words, gestures, and demeanors. If the man you were dating was facing this, what would you advise him to do?

Based off my first response and the fact that some people genuinely do not know how they are affecting other people, I would probably advise that he speak up to the woman before taking any drastic measures. Maybe she does have a thing for my man, or maybe she's just overly friendly. Some people like to push boundaries, while others just genuinely don't know where they are. If the woman continued the behavior after he asked her politely to stop or at least made a comment that it made him uncomfortable, then the situation would be in his hands but I would support him whether he decided to escalate it to HR or look for another job completely.

Now, that is what I would do with the original example. Some of the other examples (both fictional and personal experiences) are outright harassment and would not need a "you need to talk to them first" path because it was outright wrong.

Ladies, if you were married to him... and especially if he was the breadwinner in your family, would you encourage him to look for another job? Again, what if this meant he'd be out of work for some time (possibly even a year or more... we all know how hard it can be to find a job) or had to take a significant cut in pay, especially if he was the only one working?

That would be up to him, and I'd support his decision. I think I'd encourage him to look for a job while he is at his current one so that he's not out of work. But again, it'd be up to him. He is the one who has to go to that environment every day, so would he rather try to get it worked out there, find a new place, or a combination of the two? Would he rather be uncomfortable at work even after the situation had been handled by HR (office gossip and such) while waiting for things to simmer down again, or start fresh?

At any rate, I would take my boyfriend/husband at his word. If he said it made him feel uncomfortable, I would never say, "Really? But she only touched your arm, she didn't grab your butt." The fact of the matter is the way he feels regardless of the intent. Belittling him for feeling that way would not be encouraging or loving. I wouldn't want to make his decision for him, but I would offer advice, encouragement, and support.

 

[jeremyPJ]

Reading responses here makes me feel good about my future with Christian women.

None of my past women had this much respect for me as their husband.

Nice to know some good ones are still out there. Thank you Jesus!!!