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C
Well, an opinion can be at least one of two things: a *mere* belief or it could be belief which doesn't have much support for it. In the one first case where "opinion" means "belief" you are obviously right: it is my belief. But then it is also my belief that the earth is spherical. So no big deal here. But if you mean it in the second sense of a belief which doesn't have much support, then I'd have to disagree with you. (1) I don't think logic is a matter of opinion (in that it is subjective *or* in that it is not well "supported" since it is usually the grounds of support). And (2) I think it's pretty clear that the statement "God exists and is perfectly good" contains no contradiction.
(It's true that some have tried to argue that this statement *in addition to other statements* results in a contradiction, but it is not inherent to the idea itself.)
(It's true that some have tried to argue that this statement *in addition to other statements* results in a contradiction, but it is not inherent to the idea itself.)
People respond to the topics at hand, or those brought up, so its well within your right to just avoid them and take refuge in the introduction section.
My atheism is pretty much out in the open, most of my loitering is on the chat system, I find that the sociable place to be. I'm pretty sure if I brought a topic up about myself this conversation would likely be in the same boat
...otherwise, all has been well enough here for over half a year for me.
My atheism is pretty much out in the open, most of my loitering is on the chat system, I find that the sociable place to be. I'm pretty sure if I brought a topic up about myself this conversation would likely be in the same boat
...otherwise, all has been well enough here for over half a year for me.
T
Thatonegermex, we're not trying to (well, most of us aren't trying to) argue with you. We're just trying to figure out why you think a loving God is an oxymoron/contradiction; why you believe a loving God doesn't exist, but a god does.
If you back up your opinion with personal experiences (and details are important), or logical statements, or 'science', etc, then I will respect your opinion. Until then, it's just an unjustifiable statement.
If you back up your opinion with personal experiences (and details are important), or logical statements, or 'science', etc, then I will respect your opinion. Until then, it's just an unjustifiable statement.
T
You wanna know?
cuz when i was three i found out that the person who was raising wasnt my real dad.. when i found out he started to become abusive very abusive.. i prayed and prayed and prayed... he got my mom pregnant and beat her so bad that it killed the baby... when i was five he goto drunk and he bashed my head into the floor... same stuff till i was thirteen when i found my real dad... i contacted him and he was happy to see me i visited him and he had a family and they HATED me they were racist and just mean.... and i had a choice to live where i wasnt welcome or go back to where i would get the crap kicked out of me... i went back to mexico... and when i was fifteen i was raped by that mans friend.. while he just stood there and laughed... i tried killing myself four times... god wanted me to suffer cuz he kept me here... about a year later when i was sixteen i went back with my biological father went to school made some friends and got pregnant this is the only reason i can say there might be aloving god.. even tho i gave him up for adoptotion.... he deserved better than what i could give him... is that reason enough or do you need more details...? more stories..?
cuz when i was three i found out that the person who was raising wasnt my real dad.. when i found out he started to become abusive very abusive.. i prayed and prayed and prayed... he got my mom pregnant and beat her so bad that it killed the baby... when i was five he goto drunk and he bashed my head into the floor... same stuff till i was thirteen when i found my real dad... i contacted him and he was happy to see me i visited him and he had a family and they HATED me they were racist and just mean.... and i had a choice to live where i wasnt welcome or go back to where i would get the crap kicked out of me... i went back to mexico... and when i was fifteen i was raped by that mans friend.. while he just stood there and laughed... i tried killing myself four times... god wanted me to suffer cuz he kept me here... about a year later when i was sixteen i went back with my biological father went to school made some friends and got pregnant this is the only reason i can say there might be aloving god.. even tho i gave him up for adoptotion.... he deserved better than what i could give him... is that reason enough or do you need more details...? more stories..?
S
Actually agnostic is the term someone use when they have a beliefs in god but not the christian God the one I call God. I know this since I called myself by that term for years, now people please do not get into a political religious debate because all that will make people see is the wrong impression. Again I say this since christians that did that to me turned me off from God and I would hate others to see the wrong image and total contradictions to what our beliefs are spouse to fallow. Now again gemex I hope this debate does not get get under your skin and turn it off, since it use to bother me and I admire that you do not feel to justify yourself. Yes I do not agree with you position on God but I do understand it and its your right to chose it like its my right to believe in Jesus. I hope that you can find what your searing for and if you have any questions feel free to ask I love to take one thing I am really good at.
T
That is absolutely terrible... now, nothing I say will mean anything to you, because my experiences pale in comparison to yours. However, just because your adoptive father was an evil man, and did terrible, terrible things to you doesn't mean there is no loving God. Simply because your biological family was racist doesn't mean there is no loving God. Simply because you have been so depressed that you tried killing yourself doesn't mean there is no loving God.
Why?
Because of a concept called Free Will. God wanted us to make a choice to live with Him forever, or to reject His offer. That is one of the main reasons we're here on earth. This means that for people to be able to choose evil over good, God has to allow evil to exist. It would be unloving of God to force everyone into His presence; to make everyone love Him (for two reasons):
1) Not everyone wants to give up their ability to sin, and live aside God forever. It would be unloving to make these people live with him.
2) Have you ever tried making a computer say "I love you"? Not very satisfying, is it? That's because it was programmed to do that. If God made everyone love Him, then we are all robots, incapable of actually choosing to love or reject Him.
What this all means is that evil has to exist. This doesn't mean God doesn't love you and care about you, but He must allow evil to exist. Now, you mentioned praying to God, and how it didn't work. Are you aware that prayer to the Almighty only works if you have been cleansed of sin? Unless you have the Holy Spirit living in you; unless you believe in God, He will not answer your prayers. A lot of people pray to God when they're in extreme danger, but He will not listen to them now, because they did not listen to Him when he tried to reach them.
Germex, I know these words will do less than make a little dent on the bulk of your experiences, but you have to understand that God wants to come into a relationship with you now, and that what happened in the past happened for a reason. I know that may sound incredibly bizarre, but it did. God causes all things to work for the good for those who love Him.
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." (Romans 8:28)
Perhaps your trials will have made you a stronger individual; one able to talk on the same level as other people who have undergone enormous difficulties in life. You, and your experiences, have a purpose if you listen to the call of God; for He wants to come into a relationship with you!
Why?
Because of a concept called Free Will. God wanted us to make a choice to live with Him forever, or to reject His offer. That is one of the main reasons we're here on earth. This means that for people to be able to choose evil over good, God has to allow evil to exist. It would be unloving of God to force everyone into His presence; to make everyone love Him (for two reasons):
1) Not everyone wants to give up their ability to sin, and live aside God forever. It would be unloving to make these people live with him.
2) Have you ever tried making a computer say "I love you"? Not very satisfying, is it? That's because it was programmed to do that. If God made everyone love Him, then we are all robots, incapable of actually choosing to love or reject Him.
What this all means is that evil has to exist. This doesn't mean God doesn't love you and care about you, but He must allow evil to exist. Now, you mentioned praying to God, and how it didn't work. Are you aware that prayer to the Almighty only works if you have been cleansed of sin? Unless you have the Holy Spirit living in you; unless you believe in God, He will not answer your prayers. A lot of people pray to God when they're in extreme danger, but He will not listen to them now, because they did not listen to Him when he tried to reach them.
Germex, I know these words will do less than make a little dent on the bulk of your experiences, but you have to understand that God wants to come into a relationship with you now, and that what happened in the past happened for a reason. I know that may sound incredibly bizarre, but it did. God causes all things to work for the good for those who love Him.
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." (Romans 8:28)
Perhaps your trials will have made you a stronger individual; one able to talk on the same level as other people who have undergone enormous difficulties in life. You, and your experiences, have a purpose if you listen to the call of God; for He wants to come into a relationship with you!
J
Just in case The above post is too long, the abridged version is below.
Evil people =/= evil god doing things to others
Evil people = evil people doing evil things to others
In fact, if there is no loving and caring God, who has established a transcendental moral law... then nothing is really right or wrong.
Without a loving and caring God, we have no real reason to complain about the actions of others, as they were doing what they are free to do without a moral law. If there is a moral law, we can tell them, "hey, you aren't following the moral law" and they can then be punished for their actions.
Evil people =/= evil god doing things to others
Evil people = evil people doing evil things to others
In fact, if there is no loving and caring God, who has established a transcendental moral law... then nothing is really right or wrong.
Without a loving and caring God, we have no real reason to complain about the actions of others, as they were doing what they are free to do without a moral law. If there is a moral law, we can tell them, "hey, you aren't following the moral law" and they can then be punished for their actions.