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J
How do I know he didn't give us freud? Oversimplifying maybe, but Freud claimed everyones problem was sex, and everyones solution was cocaine and removing bones in your nose.
Christianity says everyones problem is sin, and everyone solution is Christ.
They also promote very unGodly things. "humans are basically good" "the end of all being is the happiness of man"
Makes no differnece whether he's here or not. God knows all that is logically knowable.
Read John Chapter 8.
44. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Which is more important: The bible or Psychology?
The bible says it is a sin.
Read John Chapter 8.
44. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Christianity says everyones problem is sin, and everyone solution is Christ.
They also promote very unGodly things. "humans are basically good" "the end of all being is the happiness of man"
Makes no differnece whether he's here or not. God knows all that is logically knowable.
Read John Chapter 8.
44. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Which is more important: The bible or Psychology?
The bible says it is a sin.
Read John Chapter 8.
44. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
C
Being GAY is sinful even before God. If it were not so, then why did God not create Adam and Adam rather He created Adam and Eve. This are the last days as the bible says. People will want to hear what their ears want to hear and feel it favours them. Gay-ism is a bad spirit and who ever has it in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and Saviour i implore you to rebuke it. When Sodom and Gomorah were being destroyed for their sins Homosexuality and heterosexuality was one of the many sins that were committed. Therefore am against anybody who condones and overlooks that.
Jimmy if you think ALL problems can be solved through prayer, and medicine/psychology/counseling are useless... Actually.. Carry on. You have a sadistic personality anyway.
I believe doctors and psychologists are usually VERY Godly. They dedicate their lives to helping people. You dedicate your life to attacking gay people on the internet.
That Bible verse has nothing to do with what was said, at all... I believe Jesus istalking about the men that are trying to get him to say something so they can arrest him... UnGodly men. Men who don't know the love and peace of God. I'm pretty sure Jesus wasn't talking about people who dedicated their lives to the mental welfare of others. And mental welfare does NOT include strapping you to a chair and showing you naked pictures of men while shocking you with electricity. That's not the peace and love of God. That's human stupidity, ignorance and hatred. Three very unGodly things.
J
Depends on if it is actually a problem. I would say that praying for a hot rod car, isn't solving any problems. On the flip side, praying to God and asking for deliverance from lust (i have done this), is ultimately attempting to solve a problem. Of course, it requires action from the person praying as well.
Overall, yes, I think ALL problems can be solved by prayer, by asking God his will, and God will provide. Prayer is one of the foundations of Christian faith.
You know, "pray without ceasing".
1) We've not even mentioned medicine in this discussion from what I recall, so that was irrelevent to the subject at hand.
2) I don't think I made the blanket statement, "psychology and counseling are useless".
To further on #2, Counseling can be very helpful, if the counseled want it. There is only one true counselor though in that usage of the term, God. I never said psychology was useless, I asked which was more important. The bible, or psychology?
YouTube - Indictment 10: Psychology & Sociology Replacing Scripture <--- click
I don't get pleasure out of cruelty. Unless your dictionary says; "Cruelty: See God of the Bible"
I wouldn't say anyone is godly in a blanket statement, but that doctors certainly can and often do godly things.
Most psychologists that I've read from, spew forth humanism and evolutionary psychology. Both are not biblical.
Again, what's most important in your life; God's word or man's word?
This would have to be viewed on an individual basis, and I can assure you there are many doctors who are more concerned with filling the linings of their pockets than actually doing any good for people.
No, this is an accusation made out of emotionalism. It is also an accusation made without evidence.
If you had read post 288, you would know otherwise... I have quoted it below to help you.
To add on to this, I've only been attempting this thing you and I call walking with Christ for less than a year. Seriously so less than six months I would say. Prior to that, I dedicated my life to chasing sin. Much of my time on the internet then was spent playing stupid video games, dabbling with /b/, and lusting happily.
Now I spend much of my time on the internet, learning, reading, listening, watching, all sorts of bible-related things. Most of all, going to chat sites and finding "Church kids" who care none of God, and pushing them toward God. So far I've lead one to have a desire for God, and am working on a second.
The passage has a lot to do with it. I'll let you re-read the passage and think about it. This time, try to leave the emotional baggage at the door.
The principle displayed should be very straight-forward.
Who decides what is "mentally good"? If we as humans decide, then of course we're going to continue in our hatred of God and his laws.
Verses please.
Where does the bible condemn stupidity and ignorance as unGodly? The only thing I can think of, is ignorance and stupidity in regards to God and his word. That would still be a bit of a stretch.
Please, calm down. Stop the raging emotions. Also, let's get back to the bible please.
Overall, yes, I think ALL problems can be solved by prayer, by asking God his will, and God will provide. Prayer is one of the foundations of Christian faith.
You know, "pray without ceasing".
1) We've not even mentioned medicine in this discussion from what I recall, so that was irrelevent to the subject at hand.
2) I don't think I made the blanket statement, "psychology and counseling are useless".
To further on #2, Counseling can be very helpful, if the counseled want it. There is only one true counselor though in that usage of the term, God. I never said psychology was useless, I asked which was more important. The bible, or psychology?
YouTube - Indictment 10: Psychology & Sociology Replacing Scripture <--- click
I don't get pleasure out of cruelty. Unless your dictionary says; "Cruelty: See God of the Bible"
I wouldn't say anyone is godly in a blanket statement, but that doctors certainly can and often do godly things.
Most psychologists that I've read from, spew forth humanism and evolutionary psychology. Both are not biblical.
Again, what's most important in your life; God's word or man's word?
This would have to be viewed on an individual basis, and I can assure you there are many doctors who are more concerned with filling the linings of their pockets than actually doing any good for people.
No, this is an accusation made out of emotionalism. It is also an accusation made without evidence.
If you had read post 288, you would know otherwise... I have quoted it below to help you.
To add on to this, I've only been attempting this thing you and I call walking with Christ for less than a year. Seriously so less than six months I would say. Prior to that, I dedicated my life to chasing sin. Much of my time on the internet then was spent playing stupid video games, dabbling with /b/, and lusting happily.
Now I spend much of my time on the internet, learning, reading, listening, watching, all sorts of bible-related things. Most of all, going to chat sites and finding "Church kids" who care none of God, and pushing them toward God. So far I've lead one to have a desire for God, and am working on a second.
The passage has a lot to do with it. I'll let you re-read the passage and think about it. This time, try to leave the emotional baggage at the door.
The principle displayed should be very straight-forward.
Who decides what is "mentally good"? If we as humans decide, then of course we're going to continue in our hatred of God and his laws.
Verses please.
Where does the bible condemn stupidity and ignorance as unGodly? The only thing I can think of, is ignorance and stupidity in regards to God and his word. That would still be a bit of a stretch.
Please, calm down. Stop the raging emotions. Also, let's get back to the bible please.
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J
fsu out of love I urge you to open your Bible and study and pray. Jimmy thank you for staying true to the Bible and not backing down. we need more christians such as yourself that use the word to back of loving statements of concern for others. if we cannot fully rely on the innerant word of God, then our lives are pointless..
I do. But I also know the difference between blind faith in the English translation of the Bible and studying the sources that the Bible comes from. If you read older sources of the modern Bible, it is very interesting to note that the HEBREW version never once references consensual gay acts. Something people seem to be blissfully ignoring on this thread.
J
I would really appreciate it if you would back your claims, say... with some hebrew words or something of that nature.
Otherwise it appears to me that you are committing slander.
It's not wise to charge someone with a crime, and to do so without evidence/reason.
It's equally not wise to charge the bible with errors, and to do so without presenting evidence or reasons.
EDIT:
I asked you in a previous post, #302 to back up similar claims. Instead you overlooked it and proceded to go on an Ad Hominem advance.
Thank God you're not a lawyer, b/c you can't "slander" an object (the Bible.) Nor can you slander something via written word. That's called libel. And I ignore you because you're abrasive and kind of on my nerves. I REALLY don't care what you think/say/feel about me. That's God's place. Not your's. Nor do I care about what you feel about my gay brother. I love him, as God does, and that's all that matters. Your hate speech is kind of pointless, thanks.
But since you say I'm committing "slander" LOL:
Abomination - towebah in Hebrew NEVER refers to homosexuality in the Bible.
A brief description of the anti-gay clobber passages in the Hebrew Scriptures
VERSES FROM THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES (OLD TESTAMENT) ON HOMOSEXUALITY
I say screw Christian Tradition. It's not Biblical at all. Christian Tradition all comes from the Catholic Church, and as far as I can tell, most people on here aren't the biggest fans of them. Jesus never said "follow traditions of church structure." He was a rebel who went against the church of the time.
and natural law? If gays happen naturally, how is that not natural law? That's like saying left handedness or down autism isn't natural.
and natural law? If gays happen naturally, how is that not natural law? That's like saying left handedness or down autism isn't natural.
J
I could never be a lawyer.
According to Websters online dictionary.
Given that the English bible was translated from Hebrew, Koine Greek, and Aramaic, a translator would be neccesary. In charging the English bible with translation errors, you charge the translators as being either 1) unqualified, or 2) honestly mistaken in their translation. Up till this post of yours, you had presented no information. Being the human I am and having a limited knowledge, I have to presume innocence of the accused until proven guilty, and as you had not provided evidence, then it would appear to be a false charge. As per definition 1, it would fit correctly as slander.
I used the word as intended.
How am I abraisive? Please do point it out, I will take note, and work to fix that. As far as getting on someones nerves goes, I'm not surprised. The bible says we are to be the salt of the earth, and as you and I know, salt irritates. Also, I would imagine Jesus got on the nerves of many a Pharisee and Sadducee.
I love you, and those around you. That's why I don't want a false teaching on sin. It could cost eternity.
I had not said anything directly about your gay brother. Now that you have opened this up for discussion though, I will proceed.
I can not back this up, and as such it is only a thought to be examined. As always, when someone confronts us with something being sinful or not, most often when we resist and say it is not a sin, instead of stopping to consider, it is because we have some kind of personal investment. This is exactly how I was with my lust. "Nuh uh, that's only when someone is married!"
I myself have two brothers, neither of which are at all concerned with God. In fact, quite the opposite. I often shy away from discussing the bible and God with them. Why? I fear that I will push them away from me, or that I will be excluded. I don't say anything to my parents for the same reason. I am curious if maybe a similar situation is occuring with you. You don't want to address your brother in regards to the bible's clear stance on homosexual acts. Yet, you understand that in order for that to jive with the bible, you have to change what the bible says. It's not uncommon, if you watch one of the testimonies I posted earlier, he speaks on how he did that himself as a homosexual.
God loves, this is true, he also hates some things. I have quoted a portion of an Apologetics website below.
If what I have said is hate speech, I suggest you give someone else your bible, and join the Bhuddists. To you it may be pointless, to me and apparently God's word as recorded in the bible, it's not so pointless.
Read what I put earlier in this post.
Being that they all make some of the same arguements, I will address the important ones here.
Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with..." KJV - Online Bible Study <--- click for levi 18:22
Tow`ebah - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - King James Version <-- click for translated word for Abomination
There are also NT passages dealing with Homosexuality.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall..." KJV - Online Bible Study <--- see 1 cor 6:9-10
For the portion, "Nor abusers of themselves with mankind", the translated word is quoted below.
The Romans passage is a bit difficult for me, as it is a combination of words instead of one word to get to the point of the passage.
The consistancy however of the various translations we have, which were done at different times, by different people, with different manuscripts. It appears to me the conistancy appeals to authenticity.
Some other issues your websites brought up, are answered on CARM. I have quoted a couple below.
I hope I didn't miss anything. I have included other additional sources that address the issue.
The Bible and Homosexuality <--- click
Apologetics Press - Does the Bible Approve of Homosexuality? <--- click
Stand to Reason: What was the Sin of Sodom and Gomorrah? <--- click
Stand to Reason: Paul, Romans, & Homosexuality <--- click
Stand to Reason: Homosexuality: Know the Truth and Speak It With Compassion <--- click
Stand to Reason Blog: The Bible on Homosexuality (Video) <-- video
Stand to Reason: Video Commentary - Did Jesus Condemn Homosexuality? <--- click (audio)
According to Websters online dictionary.
Given that the English bible was translated from Hebrew, Koine Greek, and Aramaic, a translator would be neccesary. In charging the English bible with translation errors, you charge the translators as being either 1) unqualified, or 2) honestly mistaken in their translation. Up till this post of yours, you had presented no information. Being the human I am and having a limited knowledge, I have to presume innocence of the accused until proven guilty, and as you had not provided evidence, then it would appear to be a false charge. As per definition 1, it would fit correctly as slander.
I used the word as intended.
How am I abraisive? Please do point it out, I will take note, and work to fix that. As far as getting on someones nerves goes, I'm not surprised. The bible says we are to be the salt of the earth, and as you and I know, salt irritates. Also, I would imagine Jesus got on the nerves of many a Pharisee and Sadducee.
I love you, and those around you. That's why I don't want a false teaching on sin. It could cost eternity.
I had not said anything directly about your gay brother. Now that you have opened this up for discussion though, I will proceed.
I can not back this up, and as such it is only a thought to be examined. As always, when someone confronts us with something being sinful or not, most often when we resist and say it is not a sin, instead of stopping to consider, it is because we have some kind of personal investment. This is exactly how I was with my lust. "Nuh uh, that's only when someone is married!"
I myself have two brothers, neither of which are at all concerned with God. In fact, quite the opposite. I often shy away from discussing the bible and God with them. Why? I fear that I will push them away from me, or that I will be excluded. I don't say anything to my parents for the same reason. I am curious if maybe a similar situation is occuring with you. You don't want to address your brother in regards to the bible's clear stance on homosexual acts. Yet, you understand that in order for that to jive with the bible, you have to change what the bible says. It's not uncommon, if you watch one of the testimonies I posted earlier, he speaks on how he did that himself as a homosexual.
God loves, this is true, he also hates some things. I have quoted a portion of an Apologetics website below.
If what I have said is hate speech, I suggest you give someone else your bible, and join the Bhuddists. To you it may be pointless, to me and apparently God's word as recorded in the bible, it's not so pointless.
Read what I put earlier in this post.
Being that they all make some of the same arguements, I will address the important ones here.
Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with..." KJV - Online Bible Study <--- click for levi 18:22
Tow`ebah - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - King James Version <-- click for translated word for Abomination
There are also NT passages dealing with Homosexuality.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall..." KJV - Online Bible Study <--- see 1 cor 6:9-10
For the portion, "Nor abusers of themselves with mankind", the translated word is quoted below.
The Romans passage is a bit difficult for me, as it is a combination of words instead of one word to get to the point of the passage.
The consistancy however of the various translations we have, which were done at different times, by different people, with different manuscripts. It appears to me the conistancy appeals to authenticity.
Some other issues your websites brought up, are answered on CARM. I have quoted a couple below.
I hope I didn't miss anything. I have included other additional sources that address the issue.
The Bible and Homosexuality <--- click
Apologetics Press - Does the Bible Approve of Homosexuality? <--- click
Stand to Reason: What was the Sin of Sodom and Gomorrah? <--- click
Stand to Reason: Paul, Romans, & Homosexuality <--- click
Stand to Reason: Homosexuality: Know the Truth and Speak It With Compassion <--- click
Stand to Reason Blog: The Bible on Homosexuality (Video) <-- video
Stand to Reason: Video Commentary - Did Jesus Condemn Homosexuality? <--- click (audio)
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J
Given that I stick to Sola Scriptura, this for the most part I would agree. However, Christian Tradition would have to be biblical, otherwise it'd just be tradition.
IF is they key word here. However, that doesn't pose a problem. If that is the case, then it would be a result of the fall of man. Although, you still haven't gotten around what I think MadDog is intending to state, I'm sure he can back himself up, but I would like to point something out. Just because people are born with a deficiency, or a charachteristic (left hand:me!
) doesn't equte the intended outcome. I think both you and I would recognize that God probably doesn't intend for people to be born with mental and physical deficiencies, but maybe he does. I wouldn't be the judge of that.
This is cliche, but I do think God had intentions when making Adam and Eve, and leaving out their friend Steve.
Something else to consider, if homosexuality is strictly biological, and nothing else, we may face similar issues down the road with things like pedophilia and rape. What if we find that pedophilia is strictly genetic, along with the desire to rape? Does that now become what is natural? Is it now moral?
IF is they key word here. However, that doesn't pose a problem. If that is the case, then it would be a result of the fall of man. Although, you still haven't gotten around what I think MadDog is intending to state, I'm sure he can back himself up, but I would like to point something out. Just because people are born with a deficiency, or a charachteristic (left hand:me!
) doesn't equte the intended outcome. I think both you and I would recognize that God probably doesn't intend for people to be born with mental and physical deficiencies, but maybe he does. I wouldn't be the judge of that.This is cliche, but I do think God had intentions when making Adam and Eve, and leaving out their friend Steve.
Something else to consider, if homosexuality is strictly biological, and nothing else, we may face similar issues down the road with things like pedophilia and rape. What if we find that pedophilia is strictly genetic, along with the desire to rape? Does that now become what is natural? Is it now moral?
M
Not biblical? Even though it is only through Tradition that we know which books are part of the biblical canon? Even though the Bible nowhere tells us to discard all tradition (traditions of men maybe, but this surely leaves room for there being God-inspired Tradition)? Is this not what St Paul means in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 - 'Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.'
I hope there are no Orthodox reading this. They might take offence at you crediting the entirety of Christian Tradition to the Catholics.
And that's not to mention the rest of the Christian world who at least accept some Tradition. The Trinity? The Divinity of Christ? Yes, one can see these truths reflected in Scripture, but they are hardly explicit. And as already mentioned, without Tradition we wouldn't even know which books were supposed to be in the Bible anyway.
You mean that the conservative Evangelicals that comprise most of this site don't like Catholicism? Who'd have thought it? /sarcasm
But seriously, that's really not saying much at all. I'd hazard a guess that most on here believe that homosexuality is disordered, but that doesn't convince you, does it?
Jimmy covered the gist of what I would say. If you're in any doubt though, no autism is not natural, neither are any other physical or mental disabilities. They are deviatons from what is normal or natural or what God intended. When we talk about Natural Law, we do not mean that anything we observe in nature = natural. What we mean is we look at something and ask ''what is its intended purpose''? We can usually deduce most things via the use of our God-given faculty of reason, but if we struggle, then we can always turn to Sacred Tradition (of which Sacred Scripture is a part).
I hope there are no Orthodox reading this. They might take offence at you crediting the entirety of Christian Tradition to the Catholics.
And that's not to mention the rest of the Christian world who at least accept some Tradition. The Trinity? The Divinity of Christ? Yes, one can see these truths reflected in Scripture, but they are hardly explicit. And as already mentioned, without Tradition we wouldn't even know which books were supposed to be in the Bible anyway.
You mean that the conservative Evangelicals that comprise most of this site don't like Catholicism? Who'd have thought it? /sarcasm
But seriously, that's really not saying much at all. I'd hazard a guess that most on here believe that homosexuality is disordered, but that doesn't convince you, does it?
Jimmy covered the gist of what I would say. If you're in any doubt though, no autism is not natural, neither are any other physical or mental disabilities. They are deviatons from what is normal or natural or what God intended. When we talk about Natural Law, we do not mean that anything we observe in nature = natural. What we mean is we look at something and ask ''what is its intended purpose''? We can usually deduce most things via the use of our God-given faculty of reason, but if we struggle, then we can always turn to Sacred Tradition (of which Sacred Scripture is a part).
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