Gay Christian?

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JimM1228

Guest
The new covenant is founded on love and faith in Jesus Christ. However we cant use that to do whatever we want. the Bible is two parts. the old testament still stands as a way of living, there are many things that Jesus himself said are no longer required of the old covenant however we are not here to ignore all that has been done and said in the first book.
Genesis 1-27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
sorry if thats a cop out, but im not going to disregard our Gods word. Jesus is Lord but he is also a PART of the Father. God is still God. one statement to argue that is in Revelation where he says only the father knows the end of days, not even the son but only the father. One being- 3 Persons. God is still God. so we are to adhere to his word as well. God Bless
 
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KisDawn

Guest
The new covenant is founded on love and faith in Jesus Christ. However we cant use that to do whatever we want. the Bible is two parts. the old testament still stands as a way of living, there are many things that Jesus himself said are no longer required of the old covenant however we are not here to ignore all that has been done and said in the first book.
Genesis 1-27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
sorry if thats a cop out, but im not going to disregard our Gods word. Jesus is Lord but he is also a PART of the Father. God is still God. one statement to argue that is in Revelation where he says only the father knows the end of days, not even the son but only the father. One being- 3 Persons. God is still God. so we are to adhere to his word as well. God Bless
Leviticus 18 which basically speaks about unlawful sexual relations “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the LORD your God." Last time I checked we aren't Israelites we are Christians. So when God says this it isn't to us if it was he would have said it. Also he never says that Christians need to live under Jewish law, there is a clear separation.

God also makes intersex people the idea that there are just two sexes is a lie if you look at biology. ;) Also the in his own image he meant probably not literally unless God have both bits, which I really don't think he has any bits because God is God he doesn't need another to reproduce.
 
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I dont think Bible has any verse that says that gay marriages are an abominations. The words that many people referenced on from Romans, 1st Corinthians and Leviticus etc etc talks about men being with other men. I doesnt say that if one man married another man its a sin. Also the original greek text is a lot different than the ones translated. In 1st corinthians the word malakoi doesnt mean homosexual people.. it actually meant temple prostitution. There are a lot of different analogies that the church allow now which werent allowed in the old times. Aka women were mens properties ( I forgot the reference its in the old testament). Now we know its not like that. Also Abraham and sarah were brother and sister. But they enjoyed a happy married life. Which isnt allowed by the church now. why is that? in 1st or 2nd corinthians women were told to cover their hair.. but nowadays women dont do that.. so the church went liberal.. also on the case of divorcing churches r much liberal. so there r many analogies that church uses now a days for their own use..

My question is would it make a gay person feel good if u go and tell him hey I LOVE U!! but I dont like Homosexuality and the way u live? It would push them away from God. I was very homophobic. Cus I was almost molested by a guy when I was 9. I always used to get stalked by gay guys. I hated them with a passion and was against gay marriages and pretty anti gay.. but Jesus died for everyone and love overcame everything.. just cus someone has sex in a different way doesnt mean thats unholy.. Cow is an animal to u.. but u r an animal to the cow as well.. just cus something is different doesnt mean its bad. Rather than saying to gay people that I accept u for who u r BUT u r sick and u need healing.. just show them love.. cause our Job is not to confront.. thats what holy spirit does.. our Job is not to judge.. thats what father God does.. Our Job is to love.. :)

I was just being honest and I was also interested in this topic. hope I didn offend anyone..
 
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JimM1228

Guest
Leviticus 18 which basically speaks about unlawful sexual relations “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the LORD your God." Last time I checked we aren't Israelites we are Christians. So when God says this it isn't to us if it was he would have said it. Also he never says that Christians need to live under Jewish law, there is a clear separation.

God also makes intersex people the idea that there are just two sexes is a lie if you look at biology. ;) Also the in his own image he meant probably not literally unless God have both bits, which I really don't think he has any bits because God is God he doesn't need another to reproduce.
i strongly disagree with you. there is no seperation anymore.
For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us(ephesians 2:14)

for you to think jews are seperate from us i would say to study the bible more. along with that statement i encourage you to look and find that there are no PROBABLY's in the Bible. The Bible is the true innerant word of God. not man made. any true/real believer will tell you that. so you believe it as a whole or nothing, not in part. and if you look at genesis you will see that adam was made first. in Gods image. the female was then made from Adam himself, not from God directly.

also i see that you keep using intersex children to support your case however i dont see how that supports homosexality as not being a sin. Babies are not born with physical disorders to punish their parents in any way. Although God created the earth perfectly, it soon brought destruction upon itself with the onset of human sin (Romans 5:12). Before the Flood in Genesis chapter 7 that wiped out almost all living things on the earth, people had the potential to live for several hundred years.

there is technology now to determine a childs true sex before it is born so that an operation can be performed within the first 15 months. 1 in every 2000 children are born with the chemical imbalance that causes this to happen. it is not a curse and it is in no way something to take into account when arguing AGAINST GODS WORD to support homosexuality. if you want to rely on science be my guest. but a believer in CHRIST and GOD will use the BIBLE OVER SCIENCE. if that doesnt satisfy you then i ask you to pray for the holy spirit to take you deeper into scripture. dont make your own rules from what is in plain site to meet your needs in life. God knows your needs and your heart. His standard for heaven is not you or me. it is according to what HE wants. so i suggest you start listening closer.
 
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KisDawn

Guest
for you to think jews are seperate from us i would say to study the bible more. along with that statement i encourage you to look and find that there are no PROBABLY's in the Bible. The Bible is the true innerant word of God. not man made. any true/real believer will tell you that. so you believe it as a whole or nothing, not in part. and if you look at genesis you will see that adam was made first. in Gods image. the female was then made from Adam himself, not from God directly.
I think there is a difference between Jews the ethnicity and Jewish the religion. If they follow what their religion teaches then they are bound by old testament rules. However if they are Christians or any other religion then no. This again is what cherry picking without looking at other context that causes people to have misinterpretations. That's why now you can wear cloths that have 2 or more different fabrics in them. Unless you think that should still be law too? If you think one thing in Leviticus applies to us then all of them do. Which isn't even true because acts 21:24-25 also what we are under is GRACE Romans 6:14. That and fornication only means sex out of marriage, and last time I checked gay people in some states and countries can marry. Since marriage typically at least now is a country thing individual churches may choose not to allow gay marriage however the bible doesn't say anything against it. In fact because it's the state render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s it speaks for it in its current incarnation.


Rather than saying to gay people that I accept u for who u r BUT u r sick and u need healing.. just show them love.. cause our Job is not to confront.. thats what holy spirit does.. our Job is not to judge.. thats what father God does.. Our Job is to love.. :)

I was just being honest and I was also interested in this topic. hope I didn offend anyone..
I'm Bi and you didn't offend me. Chances are those guys stalking you had wives back home. >.< At least the ones caught in my recent memory I remember them all having families which is scary that they were attracted to underage boys. I'm happy you were able to speerate pedophiles from people who are gay. There is a big difference, and it shows that you really thought about things yourself. <3 If only more people could be like you.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
live your life in a manner that do not create stumbling blocks to your fellow believers. Paul did not eat meat sacrificed to idols not because of the power of the meat but because of the weakness in faith of his fellow believers because they might be lead to worship idols. therefore if your eye causes you to sin, cast it out, it is better to enter heaven with only one eye. IF your sexual desires causes you to sin, then remain celibate. It is better to be sexually frustrated then to be casted into Hell. We must walk in Spirit which is LOVE. So LOVe your neighbors and bless those who curse you. For that is what your God tells you to do. Who's children will you be today? for whose commandments you follow and what fruit you bear, that will you be judged. Be children of God brethren and resist the temptations of the flesh. Jesus Guide us. amen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnf1xczuOrA
 
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Fire7

Guest
It's my view that there is a gulf between christians and homosexuals that can't be addressed, christians at the best can say only that they understand but can't agree or support their sexuality and from a christian viewpoint that seems quite fair, to see it from the other side it probably sounds like you are simply being tolerated and not embraced in any genuine way.....and I can only imagine how hard it is to deal with that feeling along with everything that comes with being gay in terms of personal acceptance and struggles with faith etc...

I agree with the view that it's no sin to have homosexual orientation as our sex drive is not chosen by us, but once you follow through and embrace it then the sin begins. I know some formerly gay christians have managed to deal with it and become heterosexual and credit to them for doing it.

In general the topic is greeted with hostility on both sides, the idea a gay person can't be a christian is ridiculous although obviously they are going to have a harder time being a christian because having those feelings but believing they're wrong would result in a serious and ongoing internal struggle that would be immense.

On the flip side many christians find it hard to deal with the subject because some gay christians take the view of believing in God and thus believing that they were intentionally made that way and that is a dead end for many christians as a fundamentally incorrect assertion and one that cannot be reconciled with what the Bible has to say on the subject.

This is one of those issues where people either take a hard line and say it's right or wrong and there's no in-between, or you check into it a bit more and realise just how many varying views there are, it is confusing and probably always will be, but in the end I don't think specific views matter as we know how we are suppose to behave toward all other people regardless of what particular thing they struggle with.....so for me personally understanding it isn't really neccesary as I know what I've got to do.

WELL SAID! I totally agree with this^ synopsis.
 
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Fire7

Guest
Upfront (not that it matters), I am not gay.

That being said, I don't know how I feel about whether or not being gay and acting on it is a sin or not...but right now, I'm thinking that it's not. Again: I DON'T KNOW ECACTLY HOW I FEEL.

I know all of the verses that people use to point out that it is wrong and not how God created it.

BUT, I've also heard views on the other side of it. I also study a bit of ancient history in school and know that man-on-man action in the Bible wasn't what it is today. Then, it was talking about rape and that has never been ok. (I also don't have all the facts on this.)

I know Christians who are gay and are ok with God. They feel that it is not a sin (and I know they aren't justifying their sin by saying this--they've actually experienced God's comfort in who they are with this...meaning that they are gay).

So, I was wondering if anyone on here is gay and would like to share how they feel in their relationship with God on this.

Comments from straight people are welcome, too, of course.

I've just been incredibly curious and confused about this for a while.

You have the same questions and concerns I have had.

But as a man with SSA (same-sex-attraction) myself, I can probably give you more of a personal view on the subject. I posted another thread in the Bible forum titled "Homosexuality and the Church...". I thoughts about a lot of issues concerning the church--not just ths one, but the issue human sexuality is one of the areas that I think we, as a BODY (of Christ) need reconciliation in. This is one issue that I don't believe we can afford to just "agree to disagree" on, because sexuality is central to our identity.

You know, the very first statement that's ever made about any of us when we are born is a sexual one--"It's a boy!", "It's a girl". And I think you are right to ask questions about this subject, whether people like it or not. The Church is supposed to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ on the earth. At least that's what we claim, with our "what would Jesus do" philosophy. We say that we want to be like Jesus, but "you don't know where you're going until you know where you've been". And in order for us to know what Jesus would do, we should probably look at what He did. One thing He didn't do was throw stones--at least we know this much. Jack Graham says "The bible is for demonstration, not debate". There is at least some truth to this statement, because Jesus didn't just talk about it, but He actually showed His disciples HOW to die. He made disciples. there is a difference between "christianity" (the movement) and Christianity. I do believe that what will lead us into the truth on any matter is not our interpretations (fancy word for opinion--and opinons are like noses--everbody has one), but the "Spirit of Truth" Himself.
 
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Phoebzter

Guest
Thanks. Wow I just got back from spring break, so sorry for not replying to all the comments. I am SURE I will be misunderstood. The thing is, is that people see what they want to see, and hear what they want to hear. We all view the world through our own limited perspective and often times we make snap judgement about the issue we can't quite get our minds around. :)
 
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Phoebzter

Guest
This is a lie from hell. My friend you are deceived greatly. Jesus will judge us with a quick judgment. Your smooth words will not save you. The truth is that no one who does sin will enter his kingdom. There is no fear of God in you.
No one who continues to live in sin will enter the kingdom of God..... is what I think you meant to say? For we all have sinned. And what quote exactly is a lie from hell? Can you be more specific. There is a difference between temptation and sinning.
 
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christian_guy

Guest
people
people
people
... Let us pray...
 
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Maddog

Guest
Wow that's very kind of you do you also think they should join the circus?
I think you're reading into my post things which aren't there.


God doesn't make mistakes, these people are a reminder to use that just because we have one looking bit that doesn't define our humanity. Perhaps he does this so that people gain self awareness and learn that other people are still people too, who deserve every respect we give to everyone else.
Are you suggesting that God causes some people to be born intersex? Does He also cause some people to be born cripples or spastics? What about still birth? Is He behind that as well?


Our morality has gotten much better because too we don't own slaves so I think that in time people will see how homophobia is an illogical position to have too.
You ought not to use such loaded language. It only hinders dialogue.


Also you shouldn't say God doesn't like it, you don't know Gods heart
And I suppose you do know God's heart? If it's true that no one knows God's laws regarding sexual ethics, then by what authority do you proclaim that there is nothing wrong or disordered about homosexuality or contraception?

But the truth is, God has revealed Himself to us. We cannot know everything about God, since we are only finite creatures, but He has made ways by which we can know Him and His truth, for example, there is direct revelation such as the Holy Scriptures. There is also our faculty of reason, by which we can deduce moral laws.


take ownership of your own hate
More loaded language.


because putting it on God who is the source of all good
Of course I agree that God is the source of all good. But I'm not the one suggesting that physical and mental disabilities are normal and that God specifically intended some people to be that way.


there is no room for hate.
Seriously, how are you expecting me to respond to this? Do you think I'm going to disagree with you and say that there is room for hate?


No I don't think guys at all would be ok for other people to chose what they can have done to their own bodies.
But we're not talking about arbitrary things people may choose to do with their bodies. We're talking about moral laws which are of God and therefore transcend and trump an individual's right to do as he sees fit, even if it does only affect his body. It matters not one jot whether the person it affects is 'ok' with it. For instance, I will unashamedly state that suicide, self harm and masturbation are wrong.


So yes is it a valid argument to show the flip side of the coin so that you can at least get an understanding of what it's like to have someone take your ability to have control over your own body away would feel like.
Your argument only works if morality is essentially unknowable. I reject that premise, (and so do you, incidently, or we wouldn't even be able to have this discussion).


So unless you have a uterus yourself all opinions you have on it let's just say as politely as I can it's not your place to decide or to make laws governing choices in another person's body.
I'm not making any laws. I am simply articulating my understanding of morality regarding what people ought and ought not to do with their bodies. Once again, a person need not have specific experience of a given situation (eg. having female/male sex organs) to make a moral judgement relating to it. Is this concept difficult to understand, or do you just reject it?


There for your opinion is invalid
Because you say so?


just like mine would be on when guys need to have ordered castration.
No, it wouldn't be. Again, you have every right to make a moral judgement about things which don't affect you (and being rational creatures with knowledge of morality, it's almost impossible not to).


I hope you understand that, if you don't I pray you never have daughters.
And I'll pray that you overcome your patronising and condescending attitude.


When you have sex it releases Oxycontin which is essential for pair bonding. Also there are studies that show if you don't have a healthy life in that way it shortens your life because the positive neurotransmitters that you get from it, and the cardio can also be a form of exorcise. That too and "conception" isn't really too good if you have aids. That's why you have to be smart about things with proper education. Too and that cycle thing doesn't work especially if the woman is irregular and kids shouldn't be an oops. That's what we call being a responsible member of society especially with the population we have we can't afford to have too much gain unless you want everyone to just use up the earths resources and then die of hunger. Wouldn't God look not so happy seeing us waste the only place he gave us to live? That's like throwing it back up in his face which isn't polite to do when your given a gift.
So...no, one cannot be truly open to conception whilst wearing a condom. You could have saved yourself typing out a paragraph.


I see a lot of what you say as hateful or misinformed this is an honest question that needs to be asked and not answered by you saying well God wouldn't do that.
Earlier I asked you:
Perhaps you're misinterpreting certain things as hateful when the intention behind the comments was far from it?
I think you would do well to consider it.


If the reverse was considered the norm and being heterosexual was considered against the natural law, read back the things you've said replacing heterosexual with gay and gay with heterosexual then tell me honestly would your be ok with what you said? I want you to walk a mile in another persons shoes.
How about we miss that step and I just come clean and tell you that I am a sexual deviant? True, I'm not homosexual, but I was deadly serious when I told you that the things I am saying also have strong implications in my own life.
 
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Fire7

Guest
I heard one preacher say in a sermon, while speaking against homosexuality that homosexuality is "disgusting", while he made it a point to brag about how much he likes beautiful women. He used the illustration of an occurance in the "Sodom and Gomorrah" story where Lot (if I'm not mistaken on who it was) offered his two virgin daughters to the men who wanted to sleep with the handsome angel (in disguise). They turned the two women down for the possibility of having relations with the one handsome stranger. Well, this preacher made the point that "G-d would have sanctioned the heterosexual orgy if the men would turn from their homosexuality. He says that it was mind-boggling and sick that these men turned down two beautiful pure women for one man--using Halle Berry as an illustration of a beautiful woman.

I thought that the preacher's interpretation of account was irrelevant to the issue. He was obvious to me that he was preaching out of his flesh. And I can see that it was purely out of ignorance. But most (heterosexual) christians won't see this, and I can understand, because homosexual desires are not their personal struggle. A heterosexual simply cannot identify with a homosexual--not even physically, because the brain chemistry is different--it's beyond them, as much as the concept of heterosexuality is beyond the homosexual.

The thing is, you cannot judge a sin by your own personal feelings (The heart is deceitful). Just because you find something disgusting doesn't mean it is a sin for the next person. It would be a sin because the bible says it is, not because you feel like it is. I can say, firsthand, that the idea of being intimate with the opposite sex is just as disgusting, repulsive, and detestable to many homosexuals, if not more. So if I say "heterosexuality is gross (which some actually feel deep down that it is)", does that mean that heterosexuals are bad people and should be sent to hell? You can't have a double standard here and say it's not the same thing, because it is. I would be basing a doctrine off of my personal convictions. This is the "feel-good-gospel" that so many hellfire-and-brimstone ministers condemn. But they don't realize that they are doing the exact same thing, because a lot of what they do is driven by feelings (that they call "H-ly Ghost" conviction"). I believe that a lot of preachers get intoxicated off of telling people "they're going to hell!", while the hammond B-3 plays on beat as they dance around the santuary, wih people cheering them on. Let's face it; a lot of Christians are glad there's a hell and glad you're going!
 
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Jimmy47

Guest
There's nothing wrong with being gay and being a christian. God made us to have natural urges and some people have urges to be with people who are of the same sex. There's nothing wrong with that! As long as you believe in god then i don't see what the problem is!
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
I dont think Bible has any verse that says that gay marriages are an abominations.


If you see a sign that says, "Turn left" do you sit there and say, "Wellllll, it doesn't say you can't turn right!"




Ephesians 5:31 (ESV)
31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
 
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Maddog

Guest
There's nothing wrong with being gay and being a christian. God made us to have natural urges and some people have urges to be with people who are of the same sex. There's nothing wrong with that! As long as you believe in god then i don't see what the problem is!
Have you considered the consequences of your supposition? Are you really postulating that all urges are natural (and by implication of God), and that therefore there is no intrinsic immorality in acting upon any urge one may have?

Perhaps I misunderstand your position, though.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
The thing is, you cannot judge a sin by your own personal feelings (The heart is deceitful).
Right. That is why we go to the bible, as it is the inspired word of God. God has the final say. Whether our hearts like it or not.
 
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Ephesians 5:31 (ESV)
31 &#8220;Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.&#8221;
Yes. And God also created man and woman not two men. But that doesnt mean that one man cant marry another. Also man shall leave his parents for another woman doesnt necessarily mean that he wont do that for a man too. lol the quote that u made of my comment ur reply doesnt answer my argument.
 
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Credo - I'm beginning to notice something.

If someone disagrees with ANYTHING you say, you will go research for hours to find the most obscure, biased and ridiculous articles to backup your point. I can find an article that says aliens are among us, too. It doesn't make it true.

You're also rather hateful. While most anti-homosexual people on this site try to use kind words and remind gay people that God DOES still love them regardless, you pretty much take a note from the Westboro Baptist Church. Get out of your box, dude.

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?