Smoking Marijuana?

[AgeofKnowledge]

I think smoking dope to get stoned and than coming online to justify it in a Christian forum is a sin.

"Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21)

The word translated "sorcery" is the Greek word pharmakeia (1), from which we get the English word "pharmacy." The primary meaning is "the use or the administering of drugs" (usually but not necessarily associated with sorcery or idolatry). Since this verse comes from a list of things that if practiced would preclude one from heaven, this should be a reasonably strong suggestion that the Christian should not practice drug use. In addition, the book of Revelation lists drug use as one of the things for which the unrepentant will suffer the wrath of God (2).


(1) Thayer's Greek Definitions:

1. pharmakeia φαρμακεία (Strong's #G5331)
2. the use or the administering of drugs
3. poisoning
4. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
5. metaphorically the deceptions and seductions of idolatry
6. Part of Speech: noun feminine
   A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G5332

(2) "The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries [pharmakeia] nor of their immorality nor of their thefts." (Revelation 9:20-21)

"...and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery [pharmakeia]." (Revelation 18:23).

The argument that 'it's illegal so it's a sin' is kind of a stretch. If soda was outlawed, does that make it a sin to drink soda? Like, we have to use common sense when reading the Bible. I'm pretty sure God didn't mean let the government dictate your personal life when He thought of that...

 

[jimmydiggs]

The argument that 'it's illegal so it's a sin' is kind of a stretch.

Nope. Read Romans 13.

If soda was outlawed, does that make it a sin to drink soda?

Is it against divine imperative to abstain from Soda Pop?

Like, we have to use common sense when reading the Bible.

I wouldn't use common sense. Common sense is often riddled with falsehoods.

I'm pretty sure God didn't mean let the government dictate your personal life when He thought of that...

Only if it doesn't go against divine imperative. Check out in Matthew where Jesus rebukes the Pharisees, and then hase the dsciples obey them anyway.

Even if we don't like that it's illegal:
Matthew 23:1-36 (Emphasis 1-4) Christ orders the disciples to obey the Pharisees, even though Christ rebuked them.
1 Peter 2:18-23

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Only if it doesn't go against divine imperative. Check out in Matthew where Jesus rebukes the Pharisees, and then hase the dsciples obey them anyway.

See, you keep saying this, but you have yet to respond to the many requests about this so-called "divine imperative" not to smoke pot. You keep spouting the "it's illegal so it's sin" argument, but you have not responded to many people here who have offered genuine questions about its legality for use as a medicine.

Mr. Diggs, I think we are all in agreement that pot is illegal in the US and therefore it is a sin to smoke it. What you have failed to answer is, should we, as Christians, fight to allow sick people the right to use it if it helps them?

Also, pot is not illegal in Denmark among other places. Does that mean it's a sin for Americans but not for Danes? Does God assign sin based on where you live rather than the behavior itself?

 

[Muskokaman]

See, you keep saying this, but you have yet to respond to the many requests about this so-called "divine imperative" not to smoke pot. You keep spouting the "it's illegal so it's sin" argument, but you have not responded to many people here who have offered genuine questions about its legality for use as a medicine.

Mr. Diggs, I think we are all in agreement that pot is illegal in the US and therefore it is a sin to smoke it. What you have failed to answer is, should we, as Christians, fight to allow sick people the right to use it if it helps them?

Also, pot is not illegal in Denmark among other places. Does that mean it's a sin for Americans but not for Danes? Does God assign sin based on where you live rather than the behavior itself?

Your wasting your time arguing with Jimmy, Grungy. He has all the answers........can't you see all the scripture he quoted to to support his Thesis.
It's alright, just as Christains throughout the ages have been persecuted for their beliefs so will those who argue that smoking a little pot (not getting stoned as it were) but partaking of A cone, fatty, bowl, reefer, etc. after dinner (same as those who have a couple glasses of wine) will be.So be it

BUT HEY we have to be sinners according to Jimmy if we do this! Apparently this is lust of the flesh?
I guess I should avoid dinner as that is a lust of my flesh as well! My body lusts for food at least once every day so I suppose I should just stop eating! Cause Jesus said "man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God"

I commend Jimmy for his stalwart stance on this issue and his many, many, many references to lusts of the flesh he brought forth from scripture. Too bad we all weren't as filled with the holy spirit as his words profess him to be.(that is not to say he directly claimed this, just that his arguments would support this theory). If the Lord had more soldiers like him throughout the world today perhaps it would be a very different place, Perhaps?

His intentions are good of that I have no doubt. But like all good teatotallers his words seem to ring with just a tinge of self sanctity and condemnation perhaps this is why I argue with him so much on this topic not just because I disagree with his viewpoint on this topic.

There's a big difference between having a few beers with your buddies in the evening and drinking a whole case to get pissed.
Same goes for the consumption of Marijuana or anything else in the contraband cabinet!

All things in moderation is the old Jewish proverb.

I love you Jimmy keep up thy good works

Selah

 

[jimmydiggs]

See, you keep saying this, but you have yet to respond to the many requests about this so-called "divine imperative" not to smoke pot.

I never said the divine imperative was about not smoking pot. I was making a reference to Acts 5:29. I will provide the list of verses so you can see for yourself.
(however, since it is illegal, and doesn't conflict with God's other commands for it to be illegal, it would be divine imperative)

Obey laws:
Deuteronomy 17:2
Ecclesiaste 8:2-5
Matthew 22:21; 23:2-3
Romans 13:1-7
Titus 3:1
1 Peter 2:13-17
2 Peter 2:9-11

We must obey God, when laws contradict with divine imperative.
Daniel 3 and 6
Acts 5:29

Even if we don't like that it's illegal:
Matthew 23:1-36 (Emphasis 1-4) Christ orders the disciples to obey the Pharisees, even though Christ rebuked them.
1 Peter 2:18-23

We are ordered to be above reproach for the sake of the Gospel:
1 Corintihians 10:32
2 Corinthians 4:2 and 6:3
Titus 2:1-8
2 Peter 3:14

Health:
Matthew 25:13-30
1 Cor 6:19-20
1 Peter 1:17-19
1 Cor 3:16-17

Susceptibility to deception:
John 8:44
1 Cor 15:34
1 Thess 5:4-8
2 Tim 4:5
1 Peter 1:13; 4:7; 5:8
1 Peter 5:8
1 Peter 4:7
Isaiah 1:10-17

If your motivation to use Marijuana is because you want to get high, you are following not only lust of the flesh, but also an idol. You cannot serve two Gods. (Matt 6:24)
Also, Titus 2:12

As you can see, it is not that we are to abstain from Marijuana that I was referring to as a divine imperative. I was saying that we are to obey the law of the land, except when the laws of the land contradict with divine imperative.

To understand what divine imperative is, we have to know the definitions of the words.

1
a: of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god <divine love>
b: being a deity <the divine Savior>
c: directed to a deity <divine worship>
2
a: supremely good : superb <the pie was divine>

Divine - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary <--- click

In this case, it would be definition 1a.

1a: of, relating to, or constituting the grammatical mood that expresses the will to influence the behavior of another
b: expressive of a command, entreaty, or exhortation
c: having power to restrain, control, and direct
2
: not to be avoided or evaded : necessary <an imperative duty>
Imperative - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary <--- click

In this case, B first, and of course C has relevancy as well. 1a isn't quite as direct, but I think in some ways one could use that definition as well.

So what is divine imperative?

Basically, command, direction, things to be done/not done as expressed by God.

How is it that this conclusion has been made?

Well, first there is acts 5:29..

27 The apostles were brought in and made to appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28 &#8220;We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,&#8221; he said. &#8220;Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man&#8217;s blood.&#8221; 29 Peter and the other apostles replied: &#8220;We must obey God rather than human beings! 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead&#8212;whom you killed by hanging him on a cross. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. 32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.&#8221;

Now, I used an example of this in an earlier post, which is quoted below.

On the Romans 13 Clause, we are to obey the laws of the land so long as they do not conflict with divine imperative. For example, if I was in Saudi Arabia, it is illegal to evangelize, but I would still evangelize, albiet in private to keep the effectiveness. (My head in a basket of watermelons doesn't help a lot)

We see another example of this in Daniel 3...

1 King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold, sixty cubits high and six cubits wide,[a] and set it up on the plain of Dura in the province of Babylon. 2 He then summoned the satraps, prefects, governors, advisers, treasurers, judges, magistrates and all the other provincial officials to come to the dedication of the image he had set up. 3 So the satraps, prefects, governors, advisers, treasurers, judges, magistrates and all the other provincial officials assembled for the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up, and they stood before it.


...................



7 Therefore, as soon as they heard the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp and all kinds of music, all the nations and peoples of every language fell down and worshiped the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up.
8 At this time some astrologers[b] came forward and denounced the Jews. 9 They said to King Nebuchadnezzar, &#8220;May the king live forever! 10 Your Majesty has issued a decree that everyone who hears the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music must fall down and worship the image of gold, 11 and that whoever does not fall down and worship will be thrown into a blazing furnace. 12 But there are some Jews whom you have set over the affairs of the province of Babylon&#8212;Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego&#8212;who pay no attention to you, Your Majesty. They neither serve your gods nor worship the image of gold you have set up.&#8221;

Later in chapter 3, we see an example of pre-incarnate Jesus.

24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, &#8220;Weren&#8217;t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?&#8221;

They replied, &#8220;Certainly, Your Majesty.&#8221;
25 He said, &#8220;Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.&#8221; 26 Nebuchadnezzar then approached the opening of the blazing furnace and shouted, &#8220;Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, servants of the Most High God, come out! Come here!&#8221;

We see Daniel having more trouble with this same thing, later in Daniel 6.

1 [a]It pleased Darius to appoint 120 satraps to rule throughout the kingdom, 2 with three administrators over them, one of whom was Daniel. The satraps were made accountable to them so that the king might not suffer loss. 3 Now Daniel so distinguished himself among the administrators and the satraps by his exceptional qualities that the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 At this, the administrators and the satraps tried to find grounds for charges against Daniel in his conduct of government affairs, but they were unable to do so. They could find no corruption in him, because he was trustworthy and neither corrupt nor negligent. 5 Finally these men said, &#8220;We will never find any basis for charges against this man Daniel unless it has something to do with the law of his God.&#8221;

6 So these administrators and satraps went as a group to the king and said: &#8220;May King Darius live forever! 7 The royal administrators, prefects, satraps, advisers and governors have all agreed that the king should issue an edict and enforce the decree that anyone who prays to any god or human being during the next thirty days, except to you, Your Majesty, shall be thrown into the lions&#8217; den. 8 Now, Your Majesty, issue the decree and put it in writing so that it cannot be altered&#8212;in accordance with the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be repealed.&#8221; 9 So King Darius put the decree in writing.
10 Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before. 11 Then these men went as a group and found Daniel praying and asking God for help. 12 So they went to the king and spoke to him about his royal decree: &#8220;Did you not publish a decree that during the next thirty days anyone who prays to any god or human being except to you, Your Majesty, would be thrown into the lions&#8217; den?&#8221;
The king answered, &#8220;The decree stands&#8212;in accordance with the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be repealed.&#8221; 13 Then they said to the king, &#8220;Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, Your Majesty, or to the decree you put in writing. He still prays three times a day.&#8221; 14 When the king heard this, he was greatly distressed; he was determined to rescue Daniel and made every effort until sundown to save him.

15 Then the men went as a group to King Darius and said to him, &#8220;Remember, Your Majesty, that according to the law of the Medes and Persians no decree or edict that the king issues can be changed.&#8221; 16 So the king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lions&#8217; den. The king said to Daniel, &#8220;May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you!&#8221;

I have provided these to give you examples of how this would play out.

You keep spouting the "it's illegal so it's sin" argument, but you have not responded to many people here who have offered genuine questions about its legality for use as a medicine.

Recently the only person who said much coming from that perspective that has said much, has been muskokaman.

I'm not sure why you put the illegality into quotations, it's not like it's an unbiblical argument pulled out of a place that doesn't receive sunlight. It's a biblical principle. I will provided the passage below.

1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God&#8217;s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God&#8217;s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God&#8217;s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Mr. Diggs, I think we are all in agreement that pot is illegal in the US and therefore it is a sin to smoke it. What you have failed to answer is, should we, as Christians, fight to allow sick people the right to use it if it helps them?

I don't recall reading any questions about that. (not saying they weren't there, just don't remember them at this point) All one has to do is go to scripture to find their answer.

The thread is about whether it is sinful to smoke Marijuana or not. That is what I have focused on answering.

Also, pot is not illegal in Denmark among other places. Does that mean it's a sin for Americans but not for Danes?

Coming from NORML.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Denmark's legislation regarding drugs makes no distinction between hard and soft drugs, and drug use directly is not an offense. Acquisition of drugs is a criminal offense, and, the law makes no distinction between personal use and large scale trafficking, the latter subject to a penalty of up to six years imprisonment. In reality, the courts rarely view small amounts as "acquisition" and generally do not invoke severe penalties possible under the law. There are three categories of possession: for personal use, simple, and large scale. Possession for personal use is not an offense. If convicted, simple possession, meaning smaller amounts of less harmful drugs, can result in six years in prison. Large-scale possession of dangerous drugs can sentence one to up to ten years in prison. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Although cannabis is categorized in Danish law with cocaine, heroin, and other highly addictive substances (in accordance with 1961 UN Convention), a directive from the Chief Prosecutor "provides for particularly lenient treatment of local trafficking in [cannabis] or possession with a view to use." The tendency of the courts' action for possession for personal use is most often a warning or a fine. Possession of small quantities of cannabis normally results in just a warning and confiscation of the substance. [/FONT]
European Drug Policy: Analysis and Case Studies - NORML <--- click

Assuming I understand what NORML wrote, and that NORML is accurate, it is still illegal in Denmark. Although, if it's not illegal in a country (assuming all laws, such as regional and municipal laws line up too) then Romans 13 would not be a principle that would apply.

Which would leave us with the following verses and their principles stilly applying.

We are ordered to be above reproach for the sake of the Gospel:
1 Corintihians 10:32
2 Corinthians 4:2 and 6:3
Titus 2:1-8
2 Peter 3:14

Health:
Matthew 25:13-30
(More on that here http://www.nida.nih.gov/NIDA_notes/N...epVol15N1.html)
1 Cor 6:19-20
1 Peter 1:17-19
1 Cor 3:16-17

Susceptibility to deception:
John 8:44
1 Cor 15:34
1 Thess 5:4-8
2 Tim 4:5
1 Peter 1:13; 4:7; 5:8
1 Peter 5:8
1 Peter 4:7
Isaiah 1:10-17

If your motivation to use Marijuana is because you want to get high, you are following not only lust of the flesh, but also an idol. You cannot serve two Gods. (Matt 6:24)
Also, Titus 2:12

Does God assign sin based on where you live rather than the behavior itself?

This is a false dichotomy.

Both occur at the same time, neither, or one at a time. It's not a strict either or.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Was looking over my post checking for errors and any linkage issues, and noticed there was one point that wasn't dealt with quite how it should have been.

but you have not responded to many people here who have offered genuine questions about its legality for use as a medicine.

If you're wanting to know if it's legal/illegal in a certain area, that would be a matter of looking up information on laws. I'm not sure I missed any questions on this, please pull them forward if I have, I would like to deal with questions people have as well as I can.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Your wasting your time arguing with Jimmy, Grungy. He has all the answers........can't you see all the scripture he quoted to to support his Thesis.

No, I don't have all the answers.

It's alright, just as Christains throughout the ages have been persecuted for their beliefs so will those who argue that smoking a little pot (not getting stoned as it were) but partaking of A cone, fatty, bowl, reefer, etc. after dinner (same as those who have a couple glasses of wine) will be.So be it

If using Marijuana causes you to leave sobriety and get high, then that would be sinful as well.

BUT HEY we have to be sinners according to Jimmy if we do this! Apparently this is lust of the flesh?

If your intentions for using marijuana is to get high, have fun, and feel pleasurable, then yes.

The below is a fairly brief explanation.

The word LUST is defined as "Desire for what is forbidden; an obsessive craving." Lust as used in this place refers to the desire for things that are contrary to the will of God. Lust is NOT simply desire, it is illicit, unlawful or forbidden desire.
The "lust of the flesh" often refers to unlawful sexual desire, that which would lead to fornication, as is illustrated in the following verses:
Prov. 6:25
"Do not desire her beauty in your heart, Nor let her capture you with her eyelids."
Matt. 5:28
"but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Rom. 1:27
27* and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Gal. 5:16
"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh." It is also true that LUST can also refer to other types of desire. 1 Cor. 10:6 tells us that Israel "lusted after evil things." The context of 1 Cor. 10 shows that many different things were included in their lust. James describes LUST this way:
14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15* Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
It is therefore possible to LUST after money, sex, power, pleasure, or nearly anything else on earth. Whatever we lust after to gratify the flesh is what is forbidden by the text in 1 John 2.
What is the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes? <--- click

I guess I should avoid dinner as that is a lust of my flesh as well! My body lusts for food at least once every day so I suppose I should just stop eating! Cause Jesus said "man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God"

1) The verse you posted refers to the importance of spiritual food.
2) if you're eating is glutonnous, yes, that is sinful as well

I myself have felt much conviction lately over some of my gluttonnous habits. For example, when I was at home (now on campus) I was convicted often and would refrain from certain things. Here, I started out taking two plates of food (it's all you can eat). I was convicted over that. So I reduced it down to one plate, but it was really more like two plates of food on one plate, got convicted of that. So now I eat one plate of food.

His intentions are good of that I have no doubt. But like all good teatotallers his words seem to ring with just a tinge of self sanctity and condemnation perhaps this is why I argue with him so much on this topic not just because I disagree with his viewpoint on this topic.

I'm not sure where the self-sacntification is coming out, please point out where. I would like to fix that.

On the condemnation part, I don't know whats wrong about that. Condemnation comes from the word Condemn, which is defined as...

1
: to declare to be reprehensible, wrong, or evil usually after weighing evidence and without reservation
Condemned - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary <--- click

Although, I'm not sure I've declared it to be wrong, but rather, communicated to you what scripture says. I see no issue atleast upon impression with declaring something to be wrong on a biblical basis. (maybe it is there)


I'm not a teetotaller. Communion this morning was wine. I was and wasn't shocked. (I hop from church to church)

There's a big difference between having a few beers with your buddies in the evening and drinking a whole case to get pissed.

Same goes for the consumption of Marijuana or anything else in the contraband cabinet!

If it's contraband you shouldn't be using it (unless abstaining conflicts with divine imperative)

1
: illegal or prohibited traffic in goods : smuggling
2
: goods or merchandise whose importation, exportation, or possession is forbidden; also: smuggled goods

3
: a slave who during the American Civil War escaped to or was brought within the Union lines

p
Contraband - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary <--- click

I love you Jimmy keep up thy good works

So you rescind this earlier statement?

Yes he certainly does. He's done a good job of trickery in this thread too!

Trickery isn't good works.

 

[Muskokaman]

No, I don't have all the answers.



If using Marijuana causes you to leave sobriety and get high, then that would be sinful as well.


If your intentions for using marijuana is to get high, have fun, and feel pleasurable, then yes.

The below is a fairly brief explanation.




1) The verse you posted refers to the importance of spiritual food.
2) if you're eating is glutonnous, yes, that is sinful as well

I myself have felt much conviction lately over some of my gluttonnous habits. For example, when I was at home (now on campus) I was convicted often and would refrain from certain things. Here, I started out taking two plates of food (it's all you can eat). I was convicted over that. So I reduced it down to one plate, but it was really more like two plates of food on one plate, got convicted of that. So now I eat one plate of food.







I'm not sure where the self-sacntification is coming out, please point out where. I would like to fix that.

On the condemnation part, I don't know whats wrong about that. Condemnation comes from the word Condemn, which is defined as...



Although, I'm not sure I've declared it to be wrong, but rather, communicated to you what scripture says. I see no issue atleast upon impression with declaring something to be wrong on a biblical basis. (maybe it is there)


I'm not a teetotaller. Communion this morning was wine. I was and wasn't shocked. (I hop from church to church)





If it's contraband you shouldn't be using it (unless abstaining conflicts with divine imperative)







So you rescind this earlier statement?


Trickery isn't good works.

Evade evade evade good job jimmy outta contexst and all(your breakdown of my words)

 

[jimmydiggs]

Evade evade evade good job jimmy outta contexst and all(your breakdown of my words)

Are you going to demonstrate this assertion, or just assert?

 

[Muskokaman]

By the way Jimmy Condemnation is an act of judgement so yeah it's a sin Judge not and all!
Where did I say I was gluttonous or is this another one of your presumptions? Oh I know now your gonna say that was just an example. YA RIGHT
and you speak to me in accusation of trickery.PLEASE!
I qoute scripture and again you bend it to suit your own minds interpretation of my words?

define sober jimmy?
were you sober after communion this morning?
how do you know?
by what standard are you measuring?
Oh I know your gonna run to websters for a definition! save it, don't bother on my account.
CAREFUL UP ON THAT PERCH JIMMY IT'S A LONG WAY DOWN.
Your words wreek of condescension however careful you hide them and no this is no misperception! Trickery indeed!b pfffffffff

 

[jimmydiggs]

By the way Jimmy Condemnation is an act of judgement so yeah it's a sin Judge not and all!

The point I'm trying to make here probably won't make sense at first.

Is murder morally wrong?

Where did I say I was gluttonous or is this another one of your presumptions?

Please note, I said "if you're gluttonnous.."

Oh I know now your gonna say that was just an example. YA RIGHT

No. I used MYSELF as an example.

and you speak to me in accusation of trickery.PLEASE!

No, I have not accused you of trickery.

I qoute scripture and again you bend it to suit your own minds interpretation of my words?

I think I've only seen you quote one verse.

define sober jimmy?
were you sober after communion this morning?
how do you know?
by what standard are you measuring?
Oh I know your gonna run to websters for a definition! save it, don't bother on my account.

If I can't define sober, I can't answer your other questions. That's the nature of language.

CAREFUL UP ON THAT PERCH JIMMY IT'S A LONG WAY DOWN.

I'm sitting on a chair.

Your words wreek of condescension however careful you hide them and no this is no misperception!

I'm not trying to hide anything. You keep accusing me of things like this, but then never show me where I said something that indicates that. It sounds to me like this is an Ad Hominem Fallacy, an attempt to dissuade Christians.

Trickery indeed!b pfffffffff

See, this is what I was trying to figure out. Earlier in this thread, you accused me of trickery. THen you commend me for "doing good works" but trickery isn't a good work. So do you continue to accuse me of trickery, and thus take back your statement about good works, or do you take back the statement on trickery? I'm thoroughly confused.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Are you going to demonstrate this assertion, or just assert?

He doesn't have to demonstrate it, you did just fine demonstrating it.

 

[jimmydiggs]

He doesn't have to demonstrate it, you did just fine demonstrating it.

So now we just run around accusing each other, and then say, "Nope! I don't have to demonstrate guilt! You are guilty until proven innocent!"

However, my concern is that, if I am saying things that have an air of condescension, please point it out, so I can make an attempt to fix that.

It's a lot like this:

Person A: "You're doing it wrong!"
Person B:"What am I doing wrong?"

Person A: "You're doing it wrong!"
Person B:"What am I doing wrong?"

Person A: "You're doing it wrong!"
Person B:"What am I doing wrong?"

Person A: "You're doing it wrong!"
Person B:"What am I doing wrong?"

Person A: "You're doing it wrong!"
Person B:"What am I doing wrong?"

Person A: "You're doing it wrong!"
Person B:"What am I doing wrong?"

Person A: "You're doing it wrong!"
Person B:"What am I doing wrong?"

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

The problem isn't an "air of condescension" Jimmy. That's just a red herring which you can discard. The problem is that people smoke dope to get high and you aren't telling them what they want to hear: that's it's OK to smoke dope to get high.

Complicating the issue is that some of them are deceived about smoking dope to get high and actually assert they smoke dope and don't get high. It's delusional of course to think someone can smoke a bowl of dope, a joint of dope, etc... and not get high but drugs do that to people. It's called denial and the twelve steps of recovery start with overcoming one's denial.

Obviously, that's a step they have yet to take.

So now we just run around accusing each other, and then say, "Nope! I don't have to demonstrate guilt! You are guilty until proven innocent!"

However, my concern is that, if I am saying things that have an air of condescension, please point it out, so I can make an attempt to fix that.

 

[Muskokaman]

The problem isn't an "air of condescension" Jimmy. That's just a red herring which you can discard. The problem is that people smoke dope to get high and you aren't telling them what they want to hear: that's it's OK to smoke dope to get high.

Complicating the issue is that some of them are deceived about smoking dope to get high and actually assert they smoke dope and don't get high. It's delusional of course to think someone can smoke a bowl of dope, a joint of dope, etc... and not get high but drugs do that to people. It's called denial and the twelve steps of recovery start with overcoming one's denial.

Obviously, that's a step they have yet to take.

Actually Aok It has more to do with experience with the potheads or people who smoke dope whom from my own personal experience I have found to be more accepting of people from all walks of life than any christian i've met yet except about three and in general their alot more gratuitous too.
There is no deception about marijuana use anymore than alcohol tobaccoo coffee or any other narcotic for that matter.
You see it is the whole acceptance thing that I find disturbing here. You know I do alot of work for my neighbours and friends free of charge and if someones in the ditch in winter I help them not by calling a towtruck but by shovelling and helping them myself with my own truck I never ask for money ever.
Had a wood bee several years ago for my mother as my father was passed away many years now I invited 20 people 8 potheads 4 alcoholics and 8 christians. Funny thing is not one of the alcoholics showed up which honestly didn't surprise me and out of the 8 christians invited ONLY 1 SHOWED and he was a minister. of the 8 potheads invited 7 out of 8 came thats right 7 so it left me wondering about how a people who profess such faith can still be so Holier than thou and condescending on one hand and not lift a finger to help their neighbour with the other. While those who people like yourself say that potheads are lost yet the ones I know have never stolen from anyone, they don't mistreat others, they are not rude or condescending, they don't portend to be in an ivory tower and pass judgement on others even if they thought such things they would not say it. Yet In my short time here I have noticed a very unchristian like attitude with regards to humility . Is it pride that will not allow us to accept the fact that we are wrong in our assumptions? hmmmm I wonder

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

So now we just run around accusing each other, and then say, "Nope! I don't have to demonstrate guilt! You are guilty until proven innocent!"

However, my concern is that, if I am saying things that have an air of condescension, please point it out, so I can make an attempt to fix that.

If you don't realize that you're being condescending, then there's nothing I or anyone can say to help you realize it. It is obvious to the rest of us, and we have pointed it out to you, and if you can't see it, that just means you are blind to it.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

If you don't realize that you're being condescending, then there's nothing I or anyone can say to help you realize it. It is obvious to the rest of us, and we have pointed it out to you, and if you can't see it, that just means you are blind to it.

That said, I have a hard time you really don't realize what you're doing. I think you know perfectly well what you doing, and why it is condescending. Trolls like to get people to talk in circles like that, and you are an absolute pro at it.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

The problem is that people smoke dope to get high and you aren't telling them what they want to hear: that's it's OK to smoke dope to get high.

You clearly have NOT been reading the conversation so far. Perhaps you just like trolling as much as jimmy, and can't stand to have someone else have all the fun.

 

[jimmydiggs]

That said, I have a hard time you really don't realize what you're doing. I think you know perfectly well what you doing, and why it is condescending. Trolls like to get people to talk in circles like that, and you are an absolute pro at it.

I really don't understand. This is beginning to sound like you have some kind of grudge against me, and are just trying to place slander out in a Christian forum to attempt to dissuade them.

I try to make my responses on matters like this as dry and emotionless as I can.

EDIT:If anyone else sees something that is condescending, please, bring it forth so I can attempt to fix it. Thank you.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Throw a stick into a pack of dogs and the ones that yelp the loudest are the ones that got hit... lol. You can fool yourselves dope smokers but you cannot fool me regarding the obnoxious weed. Haven't touched it in 30 years and never will again. It was a waste of time, money, and brain cells. As a Christian, I know God wants me to treasure and exercise all three fully for His glory . You don't do that as a deceived tweaker justifying getting high.

You do what you want tweakers but understand that the weed that deceives and controls the weed addict has no power over those of us who reject it. And you Christians who don't smoke it but whom are enamored with it will only find that it's eventually an unhealthy influence in your life if you start smoking it and get addicted to it.