200 Proofs Earth Is Not A Spinning Ball Videobook By Eric Dubay
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THE QUEST FOR TRUTH BEGINS
As I said in my opening statements, I am on a quest for truth here. Simple as that. And I don't care where it leads me either. I just want to know. But as I have been on this quest, not just on this topic but in a wide range of topics, I have had people constantly trying to warn me about "losing credibility." So, I think it is now time to address this issue head on. Words mean things folks:
Webster defines...
Now, when "testing everything" I am not going to look to deceiving institutions and manipulated imagery. Rather, I will seek guidance from the Holy Spirit as I search the Scriptures. When it comes to the shape and nature of the earth, moon, stars, planets and universe, that's where I'm going to look for answers. Who better to ask than the Creator of everything, right?
Others honestly claim to be doing the same, but I am going to suggest, that is not entirely true. Take the website GotQuestions.org and how they handled this flat vs globe issue for example at Does the Bible teach that the earth is flat?. It is clear to me that they are applying preconceived notions to the Scriptures in order to form their answers to the question being posed.
By the way, I agree that the Psalms are poetic in nature and many are in fact songs to be sung. However, if you are going to claim we need to view them exclusively in that way, then dear Christian, please stop using Psalm 22 as a Messianic prophecy to be taken and thus have been fulfilled literally. The Psalms are not the only place we see descriptions of the earth as firm, unmoving and set on a foundation of some sort. So, rather than trying to dismiss the Psalmist's understanding of the earth as merely poetic, why not take these writings as lyrical confirmation of what has been said by others not writing in the "poetic genre?" Were not all of the Scriptures inspired by the same Holy Spirit?
The site continues...
I've only been on this path for a little over a week now. It's not something that I can even remotely consider myself "highly educated" on, so I am by no means claiming to be an expert here, but I have to say, I can see many, many holes in the usual defense of the globe model - especially when looking into the Scriptures, without preconceived notions while doing so. Seriously. If you just come to the text with no prior bias and read it with child-like openness, trusting in its truths, you simply cannot come out believing they are describing a globe. No way. I hope to prove this in the remaining sections of this essay. In the meantime, this is how GotQuestions concludes their "answer"...
The explanation given for the Luke passage obviously shows someone who has scaled the mountain of ignorance and not taken the time to investigate what the Flat Earthers actually believe (see Globalist Argument #4). I think many who believe in the globe have the mistaken notion that Flat Earthers are talking about essentially a piece of paper with continents drawn on it and an over-head light bulb shining straight down as the sun. This is not the case. They actually have a reasonably plausible model for how you can still have night and day, without requiring the earth to be a sphere:
Keep the above image in mind as we dive into Genesis 1 later in this blog.
I can't really blame GotQuestions.org for their answers though, because I would have given the same answers myself two weeks ago. It's cognitive dissonance we're dealing with here.
When taking this challenge - like many other similar challenges I've taken in my life - I try to erase what I have been taught to believe and just let the Scriptures speak for themselves. All of us have that whiteboard in our heads, filled up with the notes we've taken from the teachings we have received, the commentaries we've read, etc.. This results in a bias within us, which can cause us to try and make the Scriptures say what we want them to say in order to justify our preconceived notions. But in any true study of the Bible, you cannot do that. We must let the Holy Spirit inspired words of Bible form our belief, not allowing ourselves to force our belief onto the Bible, in an effort to make the text say what it does not say. Sadly, I've seen way too many doctrines within the Christian faith built on doing the latter. People come up with some idea, then they twist and distort the Scriptures to fit that idea. I didn't want to be guilty of doing that with this issue.
The simple fact of the matter is, I want the earth to be a globe. It's what I've thought to be true for 46 years. The idea that it might not be therefore sounds utterly ridiculous! Yet as it has already been said, "Condemnation before investigation is the height of ignorance." Therefore, let us begin our investigation without preconceived notions, thus enabling ourselves to embark on a genuine, unbiased quest for truth concerning this issue. In order to do so, let us all do our best to toss the image of a globe out of our minds. Pretend from this point on that you have never seen nor heard anything concerning our earth being in the shape of a spherical ball. We know nothing about the shape of our Earth except what we can see, hear, taste, touch and smell. Now pretend you are approaching the Bible with fresh eyes and no preconceived ideas regarding the subject at hand. OK? Let's begin at the beginning and see what happens.
As I said in my opening statements, I am on a quest for truth here. Simple as that. And I don't care where it leads me either. I just want to know. But as I have been on this quest, not just on this topic but in a wide range of topics, I have had people constantly trying to warn me about "losing credibility." So, I think it is now time to address this issue head on. Words mean things folks:
Webster defines...
Truth:
1 a: archaic : fidelity, constancy b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance
2 a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true c : the body of true statements and propositions
3 a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or realityb chiefly British : true 2c : fidelity to an original or to a standard
Credibility:
1: the quality or power of inspiring belief
2: capacity for belief
Thus, according to Webster, credibility has less to do with truth than it does belief. Please note that people constantly reject truth in favor of belief. It happens all the time! But when belief trumps truth, we have a big problem.1 a: archaic : fidelity, constancy b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance
2 a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true c : the body of true statements and propositions
3 a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or realityb chiefly British : true 2c : fidelity to an original or to a standard
Credibility:
1: the quality or power of inspiring belief
2: capacity for belief
Those who seek truth, question their beliefs!
So, which do you care more about? Credibility or truth? I care about truth. If you do to, then by all means, continue to read and test all things. But don't bother warning me about my credibility. I'd rather be known as someone who genuinely desires to know truth rather than striving to remain popular with the masses who are more concerned about credibility.Now, when "testing everything" I am not going to look to deceiving institutions and manipulated imagery. Rather, I will seek guidance from the Holy Spirit as I search the Scriptures. When it comes to the shape and nature of the earth, moon, stars, planets and universe, that's where I'm going to look for answers. Who better to ask than the Creator of everything, right?
Others honestly claim to be doing the same, but I am going to suggest, that is not entirely true. Take the website GotQuestions.org and how they handled this flat vs globe issue for example at Does the Bible teach that the earth is flat?. It is clear to me that they are applying preconceived notions to the Scriptures in order to form their answers to the question being posed.
Question: "Does the Bible teach that the earth is flat?"
Answer: Many a skeptic claims that the Bible depicts a flat earth. Scriptural references such as Revelation 7:1 are cited, which speaks of “four angels standing at the four corners of the earth.” However, this passage makes reference to the cardinal directions as seen on a compass – i.e. north, south, east and west. Terminology to a similar effect is used today when we speak of the sun rising and setting each day, even though we know that it is, in fact, the earth which orbits around the sun.
Wait. Wait. Wait. What? Where does the Bible ever say that the four corners represent the cardinal directions? It's a nice, and reasonable conclusion only if you start with the preconceived notion that the earth is round. Where did we get that notion? Governments, their military, NASA and monkey man science. And yes, the terminology is similar to language concerning the rising and setting of the sun and moon, but how do we "in fact" know that what the governments, their military, NASA and monkey men have told us concerning the sun and moon is indeed fact? What if the Scriptures simply mean what they say and say what they mean at face value? The site continues...Answer: Many a skeptic claims that the Bible depicts a flat earth. Scriptural references such as Revelation 7:1 are cited, which speaks of “four angels standing at the four corners of the earth.” However, this passage makes reference to the cardinal directions as seen on a compass – i.e. north, south, east and west. Terminology to a similar effect is used today when we speak of the sun rising and setting each day, even though we know that it is, in fact, the earth which orbits around the sun.
Another passage often referred to is Psalm 75:3, which speaks of God holding the pillars firm. However, the psalms are written in the poetry genre. Rather than referring to literal pillars, this is representative of God’s guaranteeing the earth’s stability. Even when the moral order of the world seems to have crumbled, God will not fully withdraw His sustaining power.
Again, this interpretation stems from a preconceived notion that NASA sponsored "science" is correct and the Word of God is to be bent and understood in that direction. As we will soon see, the Bible repeatedly states that the earth/world is stable, firm and not moving, set on a foundation of pillars. It says what it says. If we are to believe that the authors of Scripture wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of the Creator, should we not simply believe what it says instead of trying to make it all "poetic" in order to justify preconceived ideas?
By the way, I agree that the Psalms are poetic in nature and many are in fact songs to be sung. However, if you are going to claim we need to view them exclusively in that way, then dear Christian, please stop using Psalm 22 as a Messianic prophecy to be taken and thus have been fulfilled literally. The Psalms are not the only place we see descriptions of the earth as firm, unmoving and set on a foundation of some sort. So, rather than trying to dismiss the Psalmist's understanding of the earth as merely poetic, why not take these writings as lyrical confirmation of what has been said by others not writing in the "poetic genre?" Were not all of the Scriptures inspired by the same Holy Spirit?
The site continues...
In contrast to the supposed “flat earth” verses, there are numerous Scriptures that clearly indicate otherwise. The earth is described in Job 26:7 as being suspended over empty space, implying a spherical figure. This notion is further entertained in Isaiah 40:21-22, which refers to “the circle of the earth.” This is further supported by Proverbs 8:27 (NKJV), which speaks of God drawing a circle on the face of the deep. From a “bird’s-eye view” of the ocean, the horizon is seen as a circle. Such an observation indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins, describing the reality of day and night on a spherical earth.
Does Job 26 really indicate that a sphere is suspended over nothing? Why can't another shape be suspended? Why does it have to be indicating a sphere, when there is nothing whatsoever in that text even remotely stating anything about a ball/sphere? And Isaiah 40:21-22 is an even worse example to use for a globe floating in a vast, ever expanding universe. We'll get to that one shortly. Meanwhile, GotQuestions.org concludes with:
The round-earth idea is further supported by Jesus in Luke 17:31,34: “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back...I tell you, in that night there will be two people in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left.” This would seem to indicate the phenomenon of day on one side of the globe while darkness abides on the other.
This presupposes that the Flat Earth model can't account for the same thing, which is demonstrably false if you actually take the time to study what those who adhere to that idea really believe.
I've only been on this path for a little over a week now. It's not something that I can even remotely consider myself "highly educated" on, so I am by no means claiming to be an expert here, but I have to say, I can see many, many holes in the usual defense of the globe model - especially when looking into the Scriptures, without preconceived notions while doing so. Seriously. If you just come to the text with no prior bias and read it with child-like openness, trusting in its truths, you simply cannot come out believing they are describing a globe. No way. I hope to prove this in the remaining sections of this essay. In the meantime, this is how GotQuestions concludes their "answer"...
In conclusion, the curvature of the earth is certainly a biblical concept, and there is little or no basis for the charge that the Bible teaches a flat earth. The Scriptures that seem to present a flat earth can all easily be explained when correctly interpreted and understood.
Read more:Does the Bible teach that the earth is flat?
This is almost comical to me. Essentially, the last sentence is saying, "Yes, the Scriptures do seem to present a flat earth, but if we 'correctly interpret and understand' them through the lens of the government, the military, NASA and monkey man science, we can assure you the Bible doesn't really mean what it is saying to you in the plain, easy to understand, clearly written text of Scripture."Read more:Does the Bible teach that the earth is flat?
The explanation given for the Luke passage obviously shows someone who has scaled the mountain of ignorance and not taken the time to investigate what the Flat Earthers actually believe (see Globalist Argument #4). I think many who believe in the globe have the mistaken notion that Flat Earthers are talking about essentially a piece of paper with continents drawn on it and an over-head light bulb shining straight down as the sun. This is not the case. They actually have a reasonably plausible model for how you can still have night and day, without requiring the earth to be a sphere:
Psalm 136:
7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.
As a 3D modeler myself, I know you can create a landscape and then insert what is called a "point light" that would act just like the animation above. A point light has a 360 spread that can be controlled and limited through attenuation settings so that it does not light everything around it from one end of the landscape to the other. You can make it only illuminate a limited area, leaving the areas outside of the light spread in the dark.7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.
I can't really blame GotQuestions.org for their answers though, because I would have given the same answers myself two weeks ago. It's cognitive dissonance we're dealing with here.
In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.[1][2]
Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. When inconsistency (dissonance) is experienced, individuals tend to become psychologically uncomfortable and they are motivated to attempt to reduce this dissonance, as well as actively avoiding situations and information which are likely to increase it.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
We have been literally programmed by the "globalists" to think of the earth as a sphere. It should therefore not surprise us that this would be the way we think of our world, even when viewing the Scriptures. It remains the way I think of it today. However, I was challenged to "test" my belief. Well, I was taught to "test all things" by the Scriptures. This is where things suddenly became difficult for me. Why? Because when I removed my own cognitive dissonance, I quickly realized the Bible does not support my current view of the earth. At least not without me actively putting my own preconceived ideas onto the Scriptures it doesn't. Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. When inconsistency (dissonance) is experienced, individuals tend to become psychologically uncomfortable and they are motivated to attempt to reduce this dissonance, as well as actively avoiding situations and information which are likely to increase it.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
When taking this challenge - like many other similar challenges I've taken in my life - I try to erase what I have been taught to believe and just let the Scriptures speak for themselves. All of us have that whiteboard in our heads, filled up with the notes we've taken from the teachings we have received, the commentaries we've read, etc.. This results in a bias within us, which can cause us to try and make the Scriptures say what we want them to say in order to justify our preconceived notions. But in any true study of the Bible, you cannot do that. We must let the Holy Spirit inspired words of Bible form our belief, not allowing ourselves to force our belief onto the Bible, in an effort to make the text say what it does not say. Sadly, I've seen way too many doctrines within the Christian faith built on doing the latter. People come up with some idea, then they twist and distort the Scriptures to fit that idea. I didn't want to be guilty of doing that with this issue.
The simple fact of the matter is, I want the earth to be a globe. It's what I've thought to be true for 46 years. The idea that it might not be therefore sounds utterly ridiculous! Yet as it has already been said, "Condemnation before investigation is the height of ignorance." Therefore, let us begin our investigation without preconceived notions, thus enabling ourselves to embark on a genuine, unbiased quest for truth concerning this issue. In order to do so, let us all do our best to toss the image of a globe out of our minds. Pretend from this point on that you have never seen nor heard anything concerning our earth being in the shape of a spherical ball. We know nothing about the shape of our Earth except what we can see, hear, taste, touch and smell. Now pretend you are approaching the Bible with fresh eyes and no preconceived ideas regarding the subject at hand. OK? Let's begin at the beginning and see what happens.
J
Flat Earth also means the stars are much closer to Earth, so does away with the light travel argument against Genesis (stars created in a day, although light travel for the stars if so far away would taken thousands or millions of years), and also easier to understand Revelation (sky rolled up like a scroll, stars falling like ripe figs).
Spher,
I already know that you think that the earth is a circle.
Let me rephrase the question:
HYPOTHETICALLY, if you were mistaken about this, or more importantly, about the (respectfully) "arrogance" with which you assume infallibility in understanding and interpreting the Bible in opposition to 99% of the world's true Christian believers, how would you want the Lord God to make that clear to you?
Can the Messiah Jesus reach into your heart and mind and help you submit to His truth in life?
This flat-world business is not really the issue. The issue is whether or not you are willing to love God and His truth more than whatever you believe?
I have had to deal with this question all of my life. I am still trying to resolve it.
I already know that you think that the earth is a circle.
Let me rephrase the question:
HYPOTHETICALLY, if you were mistaken about this, or more importantly, about the (respectfully) "arrogance" with which you assume infallibility in understanding and interpreting the Bible in opposition to 99% of the world's true Christian believers, how would you want the Lord God to make that clear to you?
Can the Messiah Jesus reach into your heart and mind and help you submit to His truth in life?
This flat-world business is not really the issue. The issue is whether or not you are willing to love God and His truth more than whatever you believe?
I have had to deal with this question all of my life. I am still trying to resolve it.
Sphere, if you were to somehow be able to take a rocket into space, and saw the earth was a round globe, would you believe your eyes, or would you think it looked that way because of some light refraction's in space, or maybe Nasa putting a implant in your head? Maybe that is what they did with the astronauts...yet another conspiracy...
I tried a week or so ago. The thing is, he does post some good stuff on some real things occasionally, I give him some likes and rep comments. And he is a gentleman, never getting nasty with anyone. A lot to be said for that, considering some of what I have seen sometimes here.
So I think he is misguided, but his heart is in the right place. I never met him, obviously, but I get the feeling he is a likeable guy in person.
We just have to pray for him, as with a lot of people in our lives, in the real world, or here in cyber space, and as always include ourselves in those prayers.
So I think he is misguided, but his heart is in the right place. I never met him, obviously, but I get the feeling he is a likeable guy in person.
We just have to pray for him, as with a lot of people in our lives, in the real world, or here in cyber space, and as always include ourselves in those prayers.
Anyone who travels to the arctic circle in June and the antarctic circle in December will see for themselves that the earth can not possibly be flat.
They must therefore conclude that their "understanding" of the Bible is wrong. This is different from claiming the Bible is wrong.
Spherical, until you understand that there is a difference between what you think the Bible says, and what God was trying to communicate when it was written, you cannot testify to the truth of what it actually says.
You are placing your opinion above God's truth. I think this might be idolatry. Are you at least willing to ask God to show you the truth about this?
They must therefore conclude that their "understanding" of the Bible is wrong. This is different from claiming the Bible is wrong.
Spherical, until you understand that there is a difference between what you think the Bible says, and what God was trying to communicate when it was written, you cannot testify to the truth of what it actually says.
You are placing your opinion above God's truth. I think this might be idolatry. Are you at least willing to ask God to show you the truth about this?
NASA and modern astronomy say Polaris, the North Pole star, is somewhere between 323-434 light years, or about 2 quadrillion miles, away from us! Firstly, note that is between 1,938,000,000,000,000 - 2,604,000,000,000,000 miles making a difference of 666,000,000,000,000 (over six hundred trillion) miles! If modern astronomy cannot even agree on the distance to stars within hundreds of trillions of miles, perhaps their "science" is flawed and their theory needs re-examining. However, even granting them their obscurely distant stars, it is impossible for heliocentrists to explain how Polaris manages to always remain perfectly aligned straight above the North Pole throughout Earth’s various alleged tilting, wobbling, rotating and revolving motions.
M
THE QUEST FOR TRUTH BEGINS
Keep the above image in mind as we dive into Genesis 1 later in this blog.]
Bit of a problem with this diagram, all of the land masses would get a decent amount of sunshine,
even the North Pole, plus the UK would be as warm as
South America. Don't get me wrong that would be really nice but unfortunately it's not.
Ps I've no idea why my text is appearing centralised, probably something to
do with flat font.
Bit of a problem with this diagram, all of the land masses would get a decent amount of sunshine,
even the North Pole, plus the UK would be as warm as
South America. Don't get me wrong that would be really nice but unfortunately it's not.
Ps I've no idea why my text is appearing centralised, probably something to
do with flat font.
THE QUEST FOR TRUTH BEGINS
Keep the above image in mind as we dive into Genesis 1 later in this blog.]
Bit of a problem with this diagram, all of the land masses would get a decent amount of sunshine,
even the North Pole, plus the UK would be as warm as
South America. Don't get me wrong that would be really nice but unfortunately it's not.
Ps I've no idea why my text is appearing centralised, probably something to
do with flat font.
Bit of a problem with this diagram, all of the land masses would get a decent amount of sunshine,
even the North Pole, plus the UK would be as warm as
South America. Don't get me wrong that would be really nice but unfortunately it's not.
Ps I've no idea why my text is appearing centralised, probably something to
do with flat font.
Spherical,
I humbly invite you to spend more time earnestly seeking to know and love God, through His resurrected Son, Messiah Jesus, than you have been responding to this thread.
It is reasonable to let this thread die. You are not able to convince anyone of your position. No one is able to convince you to consider any other position.
But I know that the God of truth will honor your sincere seeking after Him.
Heb 11:6 says that God rewards those who earnestly seek Him.
Instead of earnestly trying to change other peoples opinions about the universe, science, and the nature of reality, spend the next few weeks just reading through and meditating on the New Testament. Write out the verses in your own words and ask God to help you understand His love for you and how you might be able to reflect that love to the world around you.
Even if you are right about the earth being flat, it really is more important to seek God with all our heart mind soul and strength, than to try to convince strangers that everything they believe about life is wrong.
Instead of using your "mind" and passion to lead people to the "truth" of the flat earth (if that be the case), seek to become Christlike enough to lead people to Him with your heart and character - at least for a few months. It certainly can't hurt, can it?
I humbly invite you to spend more time earnestly seeking to know and love God, through His resurrected Son, Messiah Jesus, than you have been responding to this thread.
It is reasonable to let this thread die. You are not able to convince anyone of your position. No one is able to convince you to consider any other position.
But I know that the God of truth will honor your sincere seeking after Him.
Heb 11:6 says that God rewards those who earnestly seek Him.
Instead of earnestly trying to change other peoples opinions about the universe, science, and the nature of reality, spend the next few weeks just reading through and meditating on the New Testament. Write out the verses in your own words and ask God to help you understand His love for you and how you might be able to reflect that love to the world around you.
Even if you are right about the earth being flat, it really is more important to seek God with all our heart mind soul and strength, than to try to convince strangers that everything they believe about life is wrong.
Instead of using your "mind" and passion to lead people to the "truth" of the flat earth (if that be the case), seek to become Christlike enough to lead people to Him with your heart and character - at least for a few months. It certainly can't hurt, can it?
previously addressed and disproved.
a circle is not a three-dimensional thing. it has only two dimensions.
there are perfectly good Hebrew words for "disc" and they do not appear in Isaiah 40. neither does "globe" -- Isaiah is not talking about the 3-d form of the earth.
Spherical is describing a "disc" -- not a circle. a circle is only 2-d. a disc or a globe is 3-d.
a square is 2-d. a cube is 3-d. same concept.
a globe is a circle extended to three dimensions. a globe is more "circular" than a disc, because a disc only has a circular profile from two very specific vantage points. a globe has a circular profile any way you look at it.
a circle is not a three-dimensional thing. it has only two dimensions.
there are perfectly good Hebrew words for "disc" and they do not appear in Isaiah 40. neither does "globe" -- Isaiah is not talking about the 3-d form of the earth.
Spherical is describing a "disc" -- not a circle. a circle is only 2-d. a disc or a globe is 3-d.
a square is 2-d. a cube is 3-d. same concept.
a globe is a circle extended to three dimensions. a globe is more "circular" than a disc, because a disc only has a circular profile from two very specific vantage points. a globe has a circular profile any way you look at it.
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