How should a Christian view socialism?

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Oct 24, 2018
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#1
"How should a Christian view socialism?"
(by Pastor Johan Lourens of South Africa, www.gebednetcom.simplesite.com)

Answer: Most philosophers through the centuries have believed that history is shaped by ideas, the pursuit of actual reality, or human reason. But there is one famous philosopher who instead argued that the driving factor behind all of human history is economics. Karl Marx was born to German Jewish parents in 1818 and received his doctorate at age 23. He then embarked on a mission to prove that human identity is bound up in a person’s work and that economic systems totally control a person. Arguing that it is by his labor that mankind survives, Marx believed that human communities are created by the division of labor.

Marx studied history and concluded that society had for hundreds of years been based on agriculture. But the Industrial Revolution changed all that, in Marx’s mind, because those who had freely worked for themselves were now forced by economics to work in factories instead. This, Marx felt, stripped away their dignity and identity because their labor defined who they were, and now they were reduced to mere slaves controlled by a powerful taskmaster. This perspective meant that the economics of capitalism was the natural enemy of Marx.

Marx surmised that capitalism emphasized private property and, therefore, reduced ownership to the privileged few. Two separate “communities” emerged in Marx’s mind: the business owners, or the bourgeoisie; and the working class, or the proletariat. According to Marx, the bourgeoisie use and exploit the proletariat with the result that one person’s gain is another person’s loss. Moreover, Marx believed that the business owners influence the lawmakers to ensure their interests are defended over the workers’ loss of dignity and rights. Last, Marx felt that religion is the “opiate of the masses” which the rich use to manipulate the working class; the proletariat is promised rewards in heaven one day if they keep working diligently where God has placed them (subservient to the bourgeoisie).

In the earthly utopia Marx envisioned, the people collectively own everything and all work for the common good of mankind. Marx’s goal was to end the ownership of private property through the state’s ownership of all means of economic production. Once private property was abolished, Marx felt that a person’s identity would be elevated and the wall that capitalism supposedly constructed between the owners and working class would be shattered. Everyone would value one another and work together for a shared purpose.

There are at least four errors in Marx’s thinking. First, his assertion that another person’s gain must come at another person’s expense is a myth; the structure of capitalism leaves plenty of room for all to raise their standard of living through innovation and competition. It is perfectly feasible for multiple parties to compete and do well in a market of consumers who want their goods and services.

Second, Marx was wrong in his belief that the value of a product is based on the amount of labor that is put into it. The quality of a good or service simply cannot be determined by the amount of effort a laborer expends. For example, a master carpenter can more quickly and beautifully make a piece of furniture than an unskilled craftsmen can, and therefore his work will be valued far more (and correctly so) in an economic system such as capitalism.

Third, Marx’s theory necessitates a government that is free from corruption and negates the possibility of elitism within its ranks. If history has shown anything, it is that power corrupts fallen mankind, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. A nation or government may kill the idea of God, but someone will take God’s place. That someone is most often an individual or group who begins to rule over the population and seeks to maintain their privileged position at all costs.

Fourth and most importantly, Marx was wrong that a person’s identity is bound up in the work that he does. Although secular society certainly forces this belief on nearly everyone, the Bible says that all have equal worth because all are created in the image of the eternal God. That is where true, intrinsic human value lies.

Was Marx right? Is economics the catalyst that drives human history? No, what directs human history is the Creator of the universe who controls everything, including the rise and fall of every nation. In addition, God also controls who is put in charge of each nation, as Scripture says, “The Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind, and bestows it on whom He wishes and sets over it the lowliest of men” (Daniel 4:17). Further, it is God who gives a person skill at labor and the wealth that comes from it, not the government: “Here is what I have seen to be good and fitting: to eat, to drink and enjoy oneself in all one’s labor in which he toils under the sun during the few years of his life which God has given him; for this is his reward. Furthermore, as for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, He has also empowered him to eat from them and to receive his reward and rejoice in his labor; this is the gift of God” (Ecclesiastes 5:18–19).


Johan & Esther Lourens.
Missionaries
[email protected]
Website: www.gebednetcom.simplesite.com
P.O.Box 144, Strand, 7139.
078 674 6125.
 

Hamilton

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
142
44
28
#2
"How should a Christian view socialism?"
(by Pastor Johan Lourens of South Africa, www.gebednetcom.simplesite.com)

Answer: Most philosophers through the centuries have believed that history is shaped by ideas, the pursuit of actual reality, or human reason. But there is one famous philosopher who instead argued that the driving factor behind all of human history is economics. Karl Marx was born to German Jewish parents in 1818 and received his doctorate at age 23. He then embarked on a mission to prove that human identity is bound up in a person’s work and that economic systems totally control a person. Arguing that it is by his labor that mankind survives, Marx believed that human communities are created by the division of labor.

Marx studied history and concluded that society had for hundreds of years been based on agriculture. But the Industrial Revolution changed all that, in Marx’s mind, because those who had freely worked for themselves were now forced by economics to work in factories instead. This, Marx felt, stripped away their dignity and identity because their labor defined who they were, and now they were reduced to mere slaves controlled by a powerful taskmaster. This perspective meant that the economics of capitalism was the natural enemy of Marx.

Marx surmised that capitalism emphasized private property and, therefore, reduced ownership to the privileged few. Two separate “communities” emerged in Marx’s mind: the business owners, or the bourgeoisie; and the working class, or the proletariat. According to Marx, the bourgeoisie use and exploit the proletariat with the result that one person’s gain is another person’s loss. Moreover, Marx believed that the business owners influence the lawmakers to ensure their interests are defended over the workers’ loss of dignity and rights. Last, Marx felt that religion is the “opiate of the masses” which the rich use to manipulate the working class; the proletariat is promised rewards in heaven one day if they keep working diligently where God has placed them (subservient to the bourgeoisie).

In the earthly utopia Marx envisioned, the people collectively own everything and all work for the common good of mankind. Marx’s goal was to end the ownership of private property through the state’s ownership of all means of economic production. Once private property was abolished, Marx felt that a person’s identity would be elevated and the wall that capitalism supposedly constructed between the owners and working class would be shattered. Everyone would value one another and work together for a shared purpose.

There are at least four errors in Marx’s thinking. First, his assertion that another person’s gain must come at another person’s expense is a myth; the structure of capitalism leaves plenty of room for all to raise their standard of living through innovation and competition. It is perfectly feasible for multiple parties to compete and do well in a market of consumers who want their goods and services.

Second, Marx was wrong in his belief that the value of a product is based on the amount of labor that is put into it. The quality of a good or service simply cannot be determined by the amount of effort a laborer expends. For example, a master carpenter can more quickly and beautifully make a piece of furniture than an unskilled craftsmen can, and therefore his work will be valued far more (and correctly so) in an economic system such as capitalism.

Third, Marx’s theory necessitates a government that is free from corruption and negates the possibility of elitism within its ranks. If history has shown anything, it is that power corrupts fallen mankind, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. A nation or government may kill the idea of God, but someone will take God’s place. That someone is most often an individual or group who begins to rule over the population and seeks to maintain their privileged position at all costs.

Fourth and most importantly, Marx was wrong that a person’s identity is bound up in the work that he does. Although secular society certainly forces this belief on nearly everyone, the Bible says that all have equal worth because all are created in the image of the eternal God. That is where true, intrinsic human value lies.

Was Marx right? Is economics the catalyst that drives human history? No, what directs human history is the Creator of the universe who controls everything, including the rise and fall of every nation. In addition, God also controls who is put in charge of each nation, as Scripture says, “The Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind, and bestows it on whom He wishes and sets over it the lowliest of men” (Daniel 4:17). Further, it is God who gives a person skill at labor and the wealth that comes from it, not the government: “Here is what I have seen to be good and fitting: to eat, to drink and enjoy oneself in all one’s labor in which he toils under the sun during the few years of his life which God has given him; for this is his reward. Furthermore, as for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, He has also empowered him to eat from them and to receive his reward and rejoice in his labor; this is the gift of God” (Ecclesiastes 5:18–19).


Johan & Esther Lourens.
Missionaries
[email protected]
Website: www.gebednetcom.simplesite.com
P.O.Box 144, Strand, 7139.
078 674 6125.

Nice write up.

Some points that I think are important and maybe can complement the writing.

Economy driving history? from the secular point of view maybe a contributing factor, but I think that from the human side, the rebellion against God. By trying to operate outside God's presence, counsel, wisdom and power, humans err in most areas.

The old school notion that humans were driven by either achievement, affiliation or power, does not account for irrational destructive behavior (instigated by evil), nor for selfless altruism (many times motivated by the action of the Holy Spirit).

When the master craftsman was in charge of production (his own doing), high quality products usually were produced but in small quantities. The full surplus of the sale of the good came to the producing craftsman.

Problem started when industrial revolution came: machines allowed the production of many manufactured goods quickly and ok quality, but the surplus of the sale of the products went to the capitalist, that bought the machine, and that took care more of that machine than the labor that used it to produce.

That situation was against God's principle that work is for the support of man, not man for being exploited in work, so that a capitalist could take all the surplus.

How can the situation be reversed? Well if in one side of the continuum you have capitalism and on the other side communism (worse version of socialism), then there is a "middle way".

Cooperativism: this system allows for the collective ownership of the means of production, which in turns allows the surplus generated in the operations to be distributed more justly among all the members.

Cooperativism works well in a free market, which is the better system for letting individual initiative, effort, and control take care of important "means for making a living" decisions.

See in christianity less mature believers claim that the Apostles had all in common. The expectation is that they should be able to access assets, without actually making an effort to obtain them themselves.

If they were to continue in a systematic study of the issue, taking all the counsel of God into consideration, they should notice that the socialist experiment did not go well, to the point in which one Apostle had to say: "whoever does not work, should not eat either"
[rough paraphrase].

So a refinement of that experiment is the cooperative, in which all pull together and all receive more justly on the benefits. Things in common yes: the means of production that are to expensive to be acquired by a single person.

Christian groups in Germany when the cooperative movement was starting and expanding, founded insurance type cooperatives to help protect agricultural enterprises. Very successful for long time, not they changed to a more secular association type to benefit more persons.

In Ecuador, a cooperative was developed to purify the grey water to aid in ecological way, and were able to generate energy due to the gases that were present in the process.

Once a just mechanism to allow persons to have a dignified means of living is taken care of, then we can concentrate on what is important: Kingdom of God expansion.
 

Hamilton

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
142
44
28
#3
At the micro level, individual families should set up an Aquaponic system, in which small to medium fish tanks are fitted with a solar power pump so that the ammonia polluted water is transferred to an area where biofilm turns the ammonia into fertilizer for the vegetables to be fed in a hydroponic type system. The purified water after removing the ammonia then is recycled back to the tank.

Maybe the work of helping families set us such systems should be the work of community chaplains that coordinating a self sustainable living enabling team, makes sure that believers have a way to provide food for the family, "irrespectively of market conditions, speculations, or lack of supply to meet the demand" in a given crisis case.

Was Marx right? maybe in the observation that the surplus going wholly to the capitalist owner of the means of production is wrong.

Was he right about private property? nope, God makes clear that private property is a right and a need.

How about government control? nope, the control of the productive forces should reside at the lower level possible in the production system for better regulation in accordance with changing needs.

So how about the multinational corporations that are seen by many as exploitative, unjust, manipulative, and even unethical in a lot of the processes and actions they do?

Why not creating ombudsman type units that check for management misconduct, and that are independent of the operational hierarchy and with more power so that the certainty of the punishment by the use of amoral and or unethical means is not doubted.

Are there equality of conditions to improve life in a free market? many thing not.

There is a cooperative that tracks the performance in school of the children of the members. Every year the top 5 are given scholarships to go to the best universities. Once they graduate (eg. of advanced modern agricultural production systems), they are brought back to implement in the cooperative the latest to become more competitive, and give high quality socieconomic and innovative product and services to the community.

Advanced systems that would make life better for many, but for it to work, a key concept has to be ingrained in the mind of the persons: Christian responsibility and Christian stewardship.

The government ain't gonna do it for you, you got to organize and execute yourself, and God expect us to do it. Do all for His glory, in the right manner.

Different angle for further research, reflection and comment.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#4
I believe in regards to higher education, after highschool graduation, all would do 2 years of community service. Then only the top 5-10% of the highschool graduates should be allowed to go to colleges and universities. They would need to write a proposal of their goals and hopes. The rest of the students would go to trade schools which would include community colleges with only trades curriculum and work study programs or apprenticeships. The faculties of the universities and colleges would be reformed and have a political balance. In regards to businesses, there should be a lot more incentives for small businesses to expand. Health care should be changed to be completely free market with doctor collectives which are increasing now. Then even the legal drug costs would be lowered when done directly through such collectives. Most proposed big company mergers should not be allowed. State taxes for businesses should be equalized so that businesses would go into or start in more states than is happening now.
 

Hamilton

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
142
44
28
#5
I believe in regards to higher education, after highschool graduation, all would do 2 years of community service. Then only the top 5-10% of the highschool graduates should be allowed to go to colleges and universities. They would need to write a proposal of their goals and hopes. The rest of the students would go to trade schools which would include community colleges with only trades curriculum and work study programs or apprenticeships. The faculties of the universities and colleges would be reformed and have a political balance. In regards to businesses, there should be a lot more incentives for small businesses to expand. Health care should be changed to be completely free market with doctor collectives which are increasing now. Then even the legal drug costs would be lowered when done directly through such collectives. Most proposed big company mergers should not be allowed. State taxes for businesses should be equalized so that businesses would go into or start in more states than is happening now.
Yes Biblelover Bill, there are a lot of changes that are needed to try to improve the present situation, unfortunately, people do not organize, do not believe in their own Christian responsibility to walk in good deeds in gratitude of a free gift of salvation that expands the Kingdom of God and His justice on Earth.

Besides, there are interest groups that are moved by power, money, prestige, vanity, etc. that would do much to try to avoid a change in the system that gives them so many benefits.

Kind regards.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#6
Yes Biblelover Bill, there are a lot of changes that are needed to try to improve the present situation, unfortunately, people do not organize, do not believe in their own Christian responsibility to walk in good deeds in gratitude of a free gift of salvation that expands the Kingdom of God and His justice on Earth.

Besides, there are interest groups that are moved by power, money, prestige, vanity, etc. that would do much to try to avoid a change in the system that gives them so many benefits.

Kind regards.

The socialists in our governments have made this country more of a welfare state and many are coming to the USA for such instead of really working before retirement age. I am 71-years-old and using my low Social Security Income to give me time to minister via the Internet and even in Nigeria. October 2010, I came back to the USA from 8 years in Germany at age 63. In June 2002, I went to Germany in the first place in order to start my Internet ministries because an offer by a German nurse who liked my vision and I wanted to help USAers by sharing God's wonderful truths so they could make wiser decisions in response to the socialists and other liberals and the threats to our freedoms and even to life (especially via abortions and euthanasia). I couldn't remain in the USA just to do secular office jobs to get higher Social Security monthly payments later while I witnessed my country getting worse and worse. Thank God Hillary lost and a businessman won.

And also I was concerned even more about the wrong trends in current Christianity especially in Roman Catholic, denominational, and cult prejudices, wrong judging, and lack of careful Bible teaching and discipleship for the Great Commission. But most people in the USA are satisfied with their current situations and are selfish and apathetic. Did you know that in most churches only 3% of the members do almost all of the chores and money giving? What does 2 Corinthians 8-9 say? Where is even the Golden Rule and Jude 20-23 being done? Where are Christ-like pastors? How can God keep patient with so much just religion and pot-luck meals happening in churches? God holds Christian leaders more accountable than the politicians.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#7

Hamilton

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
142
44
28
#8
The socialists in our governments have made this country more of a welfare state and many are coming to the USA for such instead of really working before retirement age. I am 71-years-old and using my low Social Security Income to give me time to minister via the Internet and even in Nigeria. October 2010, I came back to the USA from 8 years in Germany at age 63. In June 2002, I went to Germany in the first place in order to start my Internet ministries because an offer by a German nurse who liked my vision and I wanted to help USAers by sharing God's wonderful truths so they could make wiser decisions in response to the socialists and other liberals and the threats to our freedoms and even to life (especially via abortions and euthanasia). I couldn't remain in the USA just to do secular office jobs to get higher Social Security monthly payments later while I witnessed my country getting worse and worse. Thank God Hillary lost and a businessman won.

And also I was concerned even more about the wrong trends in current Christianity especially in Roman Catholic, denominational, and cult prejudices, wrong judging, and lack of careful Bible teaching and discipleship for the Great Commission. But most people in the USA are satisfied with their current situations and are selfish and apathetic. Did you know that in most churches only 3% of the members do almost all of the chores and money giving? What does 2 Corinthians 8-9 say? Where is even the Golden Rule and Jude 20-23 being done? Where are Christ-like pastors? How can God keep patient with so much just religion and pot-luck meals happening in churches? God holds Christian leaders more accountable than the politicians.

I hear you. Sometimes is the system that is not right, and people get caught in a no win situation.

I was thinking about the Church and some of the problems it is going through. Some fine christian thinkers and authors have identified key variables that may be affecting the situation:

outreach disciples png.png

What kind of disciples is the pipeline producing? knowing that many churches are just producing church members instead of outreach disciples can be a hard pill to swallow.

The sheep are getting more sophisticated and they are able to realize something is not right even if they cannot articulate it as well as Bro. David Mulder does in the graphic above.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#9
I hear you. Sometimes is the system that is not right, and people get caught in a no win situation.

I was thinking about the Church and some of the problems it is going through. Some fine christian thinkers and authors have identified key variables that may be affecting the situation:

View attachment 191436

What kind of disciples is the pipeline producing? knowing that many churches are just producing church members instead of outreach disciples can be a hard pill to swallow.

The sheep are getting more sophisticated and they are able to realize something is not right even if they cannot articulate it as well as Bro. David Mulder does in the graphic above.
That is a very good graphic. And what commands are in John 14-16 and the last verse of 1 Corinthians 15?


Note: Seek meaning out of the following in relation to the current “Invisible Church of Christ” and the current local Christian churches:
Head-- Jesus Christ and the Bible
Heart-- Holy Spirit
Nervous System-- pastors
Lungs-- financial backers
Digestive System-- teachers
Circulatory System-- understanders of the Word
Bones-- secretarial laborers
Central Body Skin-- elders
Limbs” Skin-- missionaries and evangelists
Muscles-- full committed Christians
Fat-- carnal Christians

Conclusion: Most churches today have the following condition-- body obesity, a nervous condition, weakening of lungs, enlarged arteries, and heartache.

Probable result: heart attack!
Now please read 1 Corinthians 12:18-26 and then consider the following applying to this section.

*****************************************************************************

From John G. Elliott:
Characteristics of a fleshly ministry:
1. striving-- trying to open a door of opportunity on my own effort
2. frustration
3. burn-out
4. self-promotion
5. selfish ambition
6. shallowness
7. pleading for money

Characteristics of a Holy Spirit-led ministry:
1. historic evidence of the work of Divine Providence of opening and closing doors for ministry
2. peace and contentment
3. freshness
4. the promotion of God, not self
5. humility
6. spiritual depth
7. adequate provision

And what do Philippians 2:1-5 and Ephesians 4:11-16 indicate should be happening in Christian churches?
 

Hamilton

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
142
44
28
#10
That is a very good graphic. And what commands are in John 14-16 and the last verse of 1 Corinthians 15?


Note: Seek meaning out of the following in relation to the current “Invisible Church of Christ” and the current local Christian churches:
Head-- Jesus Christ and the Bible
Heart-- Holy Spirit
Nervous System-- pastors
Lungs-- financial backers
Digestive System-- teachers
Circulatory System-- understanders of the Word
Bones-- secretarial laborers
Central Body Skin-- elders
Limbs” Skin-- missionaries and evangelists
Muscles-- full committed Christians
Fat-- carnal Christians

Conclusion: Most churches today have the following condition-- body obesity, a nervous condition, weakening of lungs, enlarged arteries, and heartache.

Probable result: heart attack!
Now please read 1 Corinthians 12:18-26 and then consider the following applying to this section.

*****************************************************************************

From John G. Elliott:
Characteristics of a fleshly ministry:
1. striving-- trying to open a door of opportunity on my own effort
2. frustration
3. burn-out
4. self-promotion
5. selfish ambition
6. shallowness
7. pleading for money

Characteristics of a Holy Spirit-led ministry:
1. historic evidence of the work of Divine Providence of opening and closing doors for ministry
2. peace and contentment
3. freshness
4. the promotion of God, not self
5. humility
6. spiritual depth
7. adequate provision

And what do Philippians 2:1-5 and Ephesians 4:11-16 indicate should be happening in Christian churches?
Thanks for the info, very nice.

Just as there is a difference between a church member and an outreach disciple, there is also a big difference between empowering and exploiting.

Many times well intentioned ministries fail to see the difference, and damage their credibility. Look at the comparison and note that avoiding the exploitation of members is paramount.

empower vs exploit png.png

Blessings.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#11
That chart is true too. I have seen such in all kinds of churches.

So what do you about church attending? I was prevented one time because I wouldn't condemn the Evangelist Billy Graham and all of the other Bible translations except the KJV (11 edition) as the 2 pastors demanded. I am having spiritual weekends via loving God, the radio and tv, and ministering and praying. Most pastors are not teaching Bible and most churches don't have Bible discussion groups for adults. What kinds of ministry are you doing?

God's Word is my plumb-line and standard. I have ETRSFed (logically indent formatted) all of the New Testament (Revelation 4 times) and 3/5s of the Old Testament, and over 200 Bible word studies.
Isaiah 55:11
God said,
“So shall My Word be that goes forth out of My mouth:
it shall not return unto Me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
And good Bible education is rare in most Christian churches.

2 Timothy 2:15
“Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God,
a workman [or workwoman] who does not need to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the Word of Truth.”

Isaiah 28:9-10
“Whom shall He teach knowledge?
And whom shall He make to understand doctrine?
They who are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.”

Have your ever heard a sermon about Resurrected Sanctification or Jude 23-25 Living? I believe that churches should have Bible study groups and Biblical counseling available every day and night to help such happen. We learn and retain a lot more after discussions than we do after sermons or lectures. We should be using this time of religious freedom to prepare when such freedoms are no longer. Almost anyone can use my free Bible study tools to lead a Bible discussion group. Send me an e-mail and mention your concerns. [email protected] I have over 300 Bible study and I have over 7000 other information that I have fixed formatting, rated, and sorted into folders.
 

Hamilton

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
142
44
28
#12
That chart is true too. I have seen such in all kinds of churches.

So what do you about church attending? I was prevented one time because I wouldn't condemn the Evangelist Billy Graham and all of the other Bible translations except the KJV (11 edition) as the 2 pastors demanded. I am having spiritual weekends via loving God, the radio and tv, and ministering and praying. Most pastors are not teaching Bible and most churches don't have Bible discussion groups for adults. What kinds of ministry are you doing?

God's Word is my plumb-line and standard. I have ETRSFed (logically indent formatted) all of the New Testament (Revelation 4 times) and 3/5s of the Old Testament, and over 200 Bible word studies.
Isaiah 55:11
God said,
“So shall My Word be that goes forth out of My mouth:
it shall not return unto Me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
And good Bible education is rare in most Christian churches.

2 Timothy 2:15
“Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God,
a workman [or workwoman] who does not need to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the Word of Truth.”

Isaiah 28:9-10
“Whom shall He teach knowledge?
And whom shall He make to understand doctrine?
They who are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.”

Have your ever heard a sermon about Resurrected Sanctification or Jude 23-25 Living? I believe that churches should have Bible study groups and Biblical counseling available every day and night to help such happen. We learn and retain a lot more after discussions than we do after sermons or lectures. We should be using this time of religious freedom to prepare when such freedoms are no longer. Almost anyone can use my free Bible study tools to lead a Bible discussion group. Send me an e-mail and mention your concerns. [email protected] I have over 300 Bible study and I have over 7000 other information that I have fixed formatting, rated, and sorted into folders.

See a post of mine in another thread: #19
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#13
See a post of mine in another thread: #19

I read it and the other posts. My son did some kind of martial arts training and earned a black belt very quickly. His stepdad had said that he wouldn't accomplish anything because his mother said that I didn't accomplish anything. Andrew told me that he was so happy because his 5-year-old students respected him.

But you didn't actually answer my questions. Do you teach?
 

Hamilton

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
142
44
28
#14
I read it and the other posts. My son did some kind of martial arts training and earned a black belt very quickly. His stepdad had said that he wouldn't accomplish anything because his mother said that I didn't accomplish anything. Andrew told me that he was so happy because his 5-year-old students respected him.

But you didn't actually answer my questions. Do you teach?
Sorry, I did not understand what you were asking. Formally I do not teach.

Many times taking courses and having to present synthesized information, many persons have asked me if I am a teacher. I am not.

I do have God given capacity to do basic research and kind of get to the root variables in the issue, so that more clarity can be had in the study.

I am happy when I can help persons, and I do not really expect anything in return. I am just grateful that Jesus helps me without expecting anything in return other than my faithful allegiance to Him and my love.

I do feel a lot for the simple sheep, that could use a helping hand understanding certain key points. I would love to empower them so they could tell fake and wrong doctrine by themselves, so they are not misguided.

I do believe that true sheep of God hear Jesus voice and follow it, and that they do not listen to the stranger voice, because do not know that stranger.

Is strange, I have come up with scientific ways to train, and those that I hint, are surprised and ask me why I do not teach, that some of my methods are real cool and useful.

I do not know if teaching is a latent gift in me. I am very clear that not all want to be taught, and that we should not take up an office that God has not called us to do.

Hope this answers your question.

I do like to have robust exchanges with knowledgeable persons, and try to expand my conceptual framework learning about different angles on a subject.

Unfortunately I have come across too many "parakeet believers" that just repeat what they have been indoctrinated in, and can tell that have not used critical thinking skills to check if their learned and accepted doctrine jibes with the Bible. (and sometimes even with common sense).

Kind regards.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#15
Sorry, I did not understand what you were asking. Formally I do not teach.

Many times taking courses and having to present synthesized information, many persons have asked me if I am a teacher. I am not.

I do have God given capacity to do basic research and kind of get to the root variables in the issue, so that more clarity can be had in the study.

I am happy when I can help persons, and I do not really expect anything in return. I am just grateful that Jesus helps me without expecting anything in return other than my faithful allegiance to Him and my love.

I do feel a lot for the simple sheep, that could use a helping hand understanding certain key points. I would love to empower them so they could tell fake and wrong doctrine by themselves, so they are not misguided.

I do believe that true sheep of God hear Jesus voice and follow it, and that they do not listen to the stranger voice, because do not know that stranger.

Is strange, I have come up with scientific ways to train, and those that I hint, are surprised and ask me why I do not teach, that some of my methods are real cool and useful.

I do not know if teaching is a latent gift in me. I am very clear that not all want to be taught, and that we should not take up an office that God has not called us to do.

Hope this answers your question.

I do like to have robust exchanges with knowledgeable persons, and try to expand my conceptual framework learning about different angles on a subject.

Unfortunately I have come across too many "parakeet believers" that just repeat what they have been indoctrinated in, and can tell that have not used critical thinking skills to check if their learned and accepted doctrine jibes with the Bible. (and sometimes even with common sense).

Kind regards.
Hamilton, we both do the following which the Apostle Luke wrote:
Luk 1:1 Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us,
Luk 1:2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us,
Luk 1:3 it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus,
Luk 1:4 that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.

***Very Important Teachings in John 13-17-- ETRS (7 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/8uoyanljwo4l2trjqxokxemqbgztb9hk


1-- Kingdom Living PowerPoint Presentation--
https://app.box.com/s/e12jvn0b6a9pxas21ycmk9k544470la1


1a) Thesis about Basic Christianity in ETRSF (51 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/bx9mqm38ml4vgdn16bchs0d5453q3x02



1-- Justification
towards Glorification (2) -- ETRSF (11 pgs.)
https://app.box.com/s/h0ktubdx09ixbmi8pc08f35ziea31dde



***Two Kinds of Christians-- Part 1 in ETRSF (9 pgs.)
https://app.box.com/s/rgcw85mzd1mx09l2fh6o7wiol4x3r14d


1b.) Abnormal True Children of God Scriptures-- in ETRSF (19 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/qjhelfpshxs1f2moi999yvtthjp4xlzo


1c.) Great for finding great verses and contexts in ETRSF (240 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/0axtq9gg3z7j7ikxa069kej8w5dohrmj



0-- Some of my free Best items
https://app.box.com/s/0lp0zkqyeufsg263azm07l6xbym8nkxt


2-- My Bible Book study tools-- https://app.box.com/s/eclmahly4b5g4vsy2wcmsgz1utxhpqyz

3-- Word Studies-- https://app.box.com/s/z6gyg00kwnslxwy6ikxi2ki5gi3sjv2q


How to do ETRSFing:
http://livingforjude20to25.wixsite.com/for-bible-study
http://www.bibleloverbill.simplesite.com


***for Counseling Ministry-- https://app.box.com/s/46cfbcbb638ed48816b5

God bless you and your family,
Bible lover Bill
 

Hamilton

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
142
44
28
#16
Hamilton, we both do the following which the Apostle Luke wrote:
Luk 1:1 Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us,
Luk 1:2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us,
Luk 1:3 it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus,
Luk 1:4 that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.

***Very Important Teachings in John 13-17-- ETRS (7 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/8uoyanljwo4l2trjqxokxemqbgztb9hk


1-- Kingdom Living PowerPoint Presentation--
https://app.box.com/s/e12jvn0b6a9pxas21ycmk9k544470la1


1a) Thesis about Basic Christianity in ETRSF (51 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/bx9mqm38ml4vgdn16bchs0d5453q3x02



1-- Justification
towards Glorification (2) -- ETRSF (11 pgs.)
https://app.box.com/s/h0ktubdx09ixbmi8pc08f35ziea31dde



***Two Kinds of Christians-- Part 1 in ETRSF (9 pgs.)
https://app.box.com/s/rgcw85mzd1mx09l2fh6o7wiol4x3r14d


1b.) Abnormal True Children of God Scriptures-- in ETRSF (19 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/qjhelfpshxs1f2moi999yvtthjp4xlzo


1c.) Great for finding great verses and contexts in ETRSF (240 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/0axtq9gg3z7j7ikxa069kej8w5dohrmj



0-- Some of my free Best items
https://app.box.com/s/0lp0zkqyeufsg263azm07l6xbym8nkxt


2-- My Bible Book study tools-- https://app.box.com/s/eclmahly4b5g4vsy2wcmsgz1utxhpqyz

3-- Word Studies-- https://app.box.com/s/z6gyg00kwnslxwy6ikxi2ki5gi3sjv2q


How to do ETRSFing:
http://livingforjude20to25.wixsite.com/for-bible-study
http://www.bibleloverbill.simplesite.com


***for Counseling Ministry-- https://app.box.com/s/46cfbcbb638ed48816b5

God bless you and your family,
Bible lover Bill
Thanks for the links. I will have to set some time aside to check the info and learn more about ERTSF.
 
Oct 24, 2018
473
87
28
#17
Mar 14, 2011
73,470
16,364
113
#18
Socialism, lets see

Hitler
Stalin
Lenin
To name a few.

The soviet union, North krea. Cuba, Germany and the third reich,

To name a few coutnries

Anyone who can look at history and think socialism would be a good thing, have not studied the histroy of socialism
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,507
482
83
#19
Socialism, lets see

Hitler
Stalin
Lenin
To name a few.


The soviet union, North krea. Cuba, Germany and the third reich,

To name a few coutnries

Anyone who can look at history and think socialism would be a good thing, have not studied the histroy of socialism
hitler and stalin were at war with one another.

Lenin revolted against an oppressive monarchy. just a year earlier the csar opened fire on a peaceful demonstration killing close to a thousand men women and children. all they wanted was to be heard because they were starving.

USA is not pure capitalism, we have to many Govn regulation. US in a pure form of capitalism would be the US circa 1900 - 16 hr work days, 6-7 days a week, 3 families living in a one room apt, 8 yr olds get sent to work, no public school, no work safety, workers could be killed if they organized, and much more.
and for the record socialism can be just as corrupt.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,251
9,443
113
#20
Late to the party...

How should Christians (and everyone else) view socialism? As theft: forced removal of resources from their owners, with little or no say from those whose goods they were in regard to how they are subsequently distributed.

Socialism feeds laziness and selfishness; look at the number of able-bodied people on welfare or related handout programs. If there were much tighter limits, and people started getting hungry and cold, they'd get off their keisters a lot sooner and stop bleating for handouts and the redistribution of resources belonging to 'other people'. They'd make better choices, knowing that they would personally suffer unpleasant consequences for their own stupidity.

No socialist society has ever reached the ideals Marx laid out. So socialist society ever will, because Marx overlooked some important and fundamental flaws in humanity. He also overlooked the fact that God authorized private property. We couldn't offer to God what didn't belong to us personally.