Would we be better as a Socialist Nation?

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TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,284
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#21
I think I disagreed with every single statement up until you said God's in charge.

So... we DO agree on something.

That's a good start...
I think I disagreed with every single statement up until you said God's in charge.

So... we DO agree on something.

That's a good start....
Gee, that's the nicest rebuttal I've ever had.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,220
1,422
113
#22
To TabinRiv

I have asked this several time before and have yet to get an answer.
What constitutes being rich?
How do you define rich.
At what point does one become a rich capitalist?
If/when you use such labels, you need to be ready to define what they mean.


SpoonJuly,
You've done a terrible thing.

You've asked a socialist to explain themself in measurable, tangible, concrete terms.

Please don't do this again.
This is a huge no no.
As soon as they put their vague ideas into tangible, measurable terms, everyone can instantly see their ideas are crazy.

Please don't let this happen again.

...
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,284
1,915
113
#23
To TabinRiv

I have asked this several time before and have yet to get an answer.
What constitutes being rich?
How do you define rich.
At what point does one become a rich capitalist?
If/when you use such labels, you need to be ready to define what they mean.
The 'rich' Jesus was talking about
To TabinRiv

I have asked this several time before and have yet to get an answer.
What constitutes being rich?
How do you define rich.
At what point does one become a rich capitalist?
If/when you use such labels, you need to be ready to define what they mean.
The 'rich' Jesus was referring to in Mt 19:24
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,284
1,915
113
#24
No. A lot of young people think socialism will work and that somehow it will be different than what they've done in other countries, but when you ask them how it will be different they don't know.

The old school democrats wanted to expand government aid because they wanted to aid those who really needed help and of course they had to raise taxes to pay for those expanded programs and that worked when the country needed that, but today these liberals think everyone is entitled to free education and low cost healthcare and a minimum wage that you can raise a family on.
How do u think Jesus would feel about low-cost healthcare and helping the poor?
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,118
365
83
#25
Hi, There is much bad publicity re socialism by guess who the rich capitalists. This goes way back to the Vatican who decided not to practice socialism bc of the $$. Certainly socialism has it's own issues and I'm not taking sides. Prob nobody here likes Bernie Sanders but he would have won if Hillry would have backed out and no fixing the elections. . His ideas are super popular and he had enormous crowds. Some European countries are doing it right and have the best lifestyles. Personally, I'd love to pay more taxes and have free Healthcare, ed, good SSA and etc. What gripes me is the one-sided info we get w/o a fair look into this. Well, no worries, the powers that b will NEVER allow socialism HERE (US). BTW not either party and not here to fight just give diff view. God's in charge no matter what and thank God he's holding back the full force of the 'lawless one' with the Restrainer on board, 2 Thes 2:6,7.
when people advocate socialism they are not talking about communist russia, they are talking about the USA back in the 40s - 60s. back when we had good public schools, municipal water /power, state schools, housing projects for those in need, schools for mentally ill, state/federal jails. these were all done through social programs back in the day funded by tax dollars, now they are private and cost us twice as much and here is the kicker, our taxes never went down after they were eliminated.
today you have to pay just to get your trash picked up, the most basic civil service. sometimes i wonder what exactly taxes are even used for anymore.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,284
1,915
113
#26
SpoonJuly,
You've done a terrible thing.

You've asked a socialist to explain themself in measurable, tangible, concrete terms.

Please don't do this again.
This is a huge no no.
As soon as they put their vague ideas into tangible, measurable terms, everyone can instantly see their ideas are crazy.

Please don't let this happen again.

...
Assuming I'm a socialist bc I have a diff opinion is also wrong, bc I'm not. I get the impression Jesus disliked the money-changers and said to help the needy. Not really vague ideas, at least not to Jesus.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,220
1,422
113
#27
The 'rich' Jesus was talking about

The 'rich' Jesus was referring to in Mt 19:24

Bit of Clarity - RICH


Mat 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


I'll skip ALL the historical problems with your answer, and just get right to the intent of the scripture.

Jesus:

Jesus was NOT having an economic debate, or creating economic policies.
He was making only a VAGUE statement about financial status in order to make a CLEAR statement about morals - that if you have a lot of money, you will probably care more about the money than about God.

His statement was NOT about economic theory, or economic policy... he wasn't talking about economics at all... he was explaining a moral issue.

Socialism:

1. If you want to use the word "rich" in a biblical context, to explain only MORAL ISSUES about GETTING INTO HEAVEN... then you can be VAGUE about the definition of rich... just like Jesus... because the FOCUS here is on MORALITY and SPIRITUALITY, and NOT ECONOMICS.
(Though from an historical context, it's very likely that a specific definition was actually implied... so I'm not positive you can even get off the hook from this angle.)

2. If you want to use the word "rich" in discussing economic theory, and economic policies, then you will, by definition, have to DEFINE THE THING YOU'RE DISCUSSING, because you ARE talking about economics.


---
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,284
1,915
113
#28
when people advocate socialism they are not talking about communist russia, they are talking about the USA back in the 40s - 60s. back when we had good public schools, municipal water /power, state schools, housing projects for those in need, schools for mentally ill, state/federal jails. these were all done through social programs back in the day funded by tax dollars, now they are private and cost us twice as much and here is the kicker, our taxes never went down after they were eliminated.
today you have to pay just to get your trash picked up, the most basic civil service. sometimes i wonder what exactly taxes are even used for anymore.
Maybe that's why FDR was voted in 4 times he wanted to get people to work AND pay taxes. My dad was one of them. Where do our taxes go--war budget to protect us from all those enemies out there (which may not be such a stretch anymore).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,320
2,275
113
#29
Prob nobody here likes Bernie Sanders but he would have won if Hillry would have backed out and no fixing the elections.
Sanders could not have won if his life depended on it. Socialism may sound good in theory but in reality it is evil.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,220
1,422
113
#30
If you refuse to explain yourself in tangible terms,
because you don't want anyone to know what you REALLY think...

you're intentionally trying to deceive people.



Nuff Said.







...
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,118
365
83
#31
Maybe that's why FDR was voted in 4 times he wanted to get people to work AND pay taxes. My dad was one of them. Where do our taxes go--war budget to protect us from all those enemies out there (which may not be such a stretch anymore).
i was always a big fan of FDR until i read about him in detail. IMO they governmetn lead by FDR gave the people what they wanted because there was a threat of communism, now the threat is gone and they have taken back all the people gained.
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,150
767
113
#32
How do u think Jesus would feel about low-cost healthcare and helping the poor?
My health care was very low cost until Obama stuck his nose in it.
I have no problem helping those who are really in need but ----
Some people are needy because they are just lazy and refuse to work.
There are businesses in my area that are begging for workers ( 3.6% unemployment in Arkansas ) but many refuse to work.
Thankfully, Arkansas now requires able bodied people to work at least 80 hours a month or volunteer 80 hours a month to receive medicare and food stamps.
You would not believe those who are saying how unfair this is.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,118
365
83
#34
My health care was very low cost until Obama stuck his nose in it.
I have no problem helping those who are really in need but ----
Some people are needy because they are just lazy and refuse to work.
There are businesses in my area that are begging for workers ( 3.6% unemployment in Arkansas ) but many refuse to work.
Thankfully, Arkansas now requires able bodied people to work at least 80 hours a month or volunteer 80 hours a month to receive medicare and food stamps.
You would not believe those who are saying how unfair this is.
i just moved from vilonia to little rock more than a year back due to no work in Falkner county. now i have a descent job but im on the outskirts of the city and miserable, i think i would be happier in a tent back in the county.
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,150
767
113
#35
i just moved from vilonia to little rock more than a year back due to no work in Falkner county. now i have a descent job but im on the outskirts of the city and miserable, i think i would be happier in a tent back in the county.
i just moved from vilonia to little rock more than a year back due to no work in Falkner county. now i have a descent job but im on the outskirts of the city and miserable, i think i would be happier in a tent back in the county.
I fill for you ----
But sometime we have to do what we have to do.
Glad you are not one of those who would just set with his had out.:)
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,284
1,915
113
#36
Bit of Clarity - RICH


Mat 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


I'll skip ALL the historical problems with your answer, and just get right to the intent of the scripture.

Jesus:

Jesus was NOT having an economic debate, or creating economic policies.
He was making only a VAGUE statement about financial status in order to make a CLEAR statement about morals - that if you have a lot of money, you will probably care more about the money than about God.

His statement was NOT about economic theory, or economic policy... he wasn't talking about economics at all... he was explaining a moral issue.

Socialism:

1. If you want to use the word "rich" in a biblical context, to explain only MORAL ISSUES about GETTING INTO HEAVEN... then you can be VAGUE about the definition of rich... just like Jesus... because the FOCUS here is on MORALITY and SPIRITUALITY, and NOT ECONOMICS.
(Though from an historical context, it's very likely that a specific definition was actually implied... so I'm not positive you can even get off the hook from this angle.)

2. If you want to use the word "rich" in discussing economic theory, and economic policies, then you will, by definition, have to DEFINE THE THING YOU'RE DISCUSSING, because you ARE talking about economics.
--
You're right, when I say 'rich' I should distinguish the honest rich people from the 'filthy lucre' described in the Bible. Like the money-changers who were controlling the value of the money to their advantage beside desecrating the Temple. Filthy lucre=eagerness/greediness for base gain. I'm done, if u want anymore info look up Jesus and his thoughts on the poor.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,118
365
83
#37
I fill for you ----
But sometime we have to do what we have to do.
Glad you are not one of those who would just set with his had out.:)
i have a story about everything. i never collected unemployment until just a few years back, after you have kids you dont get to make those choices, after i went back to work, a year later i got a letter that i have to pay the money back. i did a lot of reading on this and come to find out this is quite common today. unemployment used to be taken out of your check, now the employer pays it, they charge that back to the employee when deciding pay rate, and when you do need it, its a loan.
yes i put my hand out one time and it got slapped back.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,284
1,915
113
#38
i just moved from vilonia to little rock more than a year back due to no work in Falkner county. now i have a descent job but im on the outskirts of the city and miserable, i think i would be happier in a tent back in the county.
Is there anything going on there ie Church, Bible studies, groups, neighbors? If not, figure out a plan for a change.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,118
365
83
#39
Is there anything going on there ie Church, Bible studies, groups, neighbors? If not, figure out a plan for a change.
i did make a plan. i decided to take advantage of the city and start a service company which i couldnt do before in such a small town, i hope to make enough to start a flea market. flea market can be done anywhere.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,284
1,915
113
#40
i have a story about everything. i never collected unemployment until just a few years back, after you have kids you dont get to make those choices, after i went back to work, a year later i got a letter that i have to pay the money back. i did a lot of reading on this and come to find out this is quite common today. unemployment used to be taken out of your check, now the employer pays it, they charge that back to the employee when deciding pay rate, and when you do need it, its a loan.
yes i put my hand out one time and it got slapped back.
It's sad some label all those who could use a little helping hand as lazy, etc. I live on SSA, rent a room, yard sales, food banks, and Faith. Oh, and I pay taxes too.