Would we be better as a Socialist Nation?

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TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,271
1,911
113
#41
i did make a plan. i decided to take advantage of the city and start a service company which i couldnt do before in such a small town, i hope to make enough to start a flea market. flea market can be done anywhere.
Love flea markets and stuck on British/Irish show 'Bargain Hunt'. May Jesus bless and give you favor always.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
8,869
4,831
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73
#42
It's sad some label all those who could use a little helping hand as lazy, etc. I live on SSA, rent a room, yard sales, food banks, and Faith. Oh, and I pay taxes too.
Socialism isn't going to work in the long term anyway. It is linked to communism and look how well that is going. Russia and China have had to drop their hard line communistic ways and open stock markets. They still have to be able to play on the world's economic system.

Rather than admit their failures and seek another type government, they keep up a facade of ideals that hold to communism. Why? Because the few that hold absolute power over their people don't want to give that up. A strict military like discipline is needed to hold the people in check. I think Russia and China are desperate because some of their people have gotten a taste of capitalism. You can't rule an unruly people. :eek:
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,271
1,911
113
#44
i was always a big fan of FDR until i read about him in detail. IMO they governmetn lead by FDR gave the people what they wanted because there was a threat of communism, now the threat is gone and they have taken back all the people gained.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
#45
let's see how we can help this idea

have robots do all the work, and humans can benefit from robots

and leave no opportunity for manual labor

if this is not helping, then socialism is dead in the waters
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,271
1,911
113
#46
let's see how we can help this idea

have robots do all the work, and humans can benefit from robots

and leave no opportunity for manual labor

if this is not helping, then socialism is dead in the waters
Sorry u lost me here, all I'm concerned about is the growing disparity between a lot of people vs a teeny percent. I see Jesus as someone who would help the poor even if it meant helping a few loafers And no I'm not the anti-Christ.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,220
1,422
113
#47
Sorry u lost me here, all I'm concerned about is the growing disparity between a lot of people vs a teeny percent. I see Jesus as someone who would help the poor even if it meant helping a few loafers And no I'm not the anti-Christ.
We really need to be more careful in drawing distinctions.

All Christians, including all the Christians on the "right", believe in helping the poor... at least they do if they read the Bible.
It's something we ALL believe.

However, we disagree on HOW we should help the poor.

Most of us, on the right, don't believe there is any Biblical mandate for the GOVERNMENT to FORCIBLY TAKE things from one group of people, and give those things to... well... whoever they please. That just isn't the Biblical model.

The Biblical model is that each of us, as we feel led, should give directly to the poor... as much as we feel led, and to whomever we feel led.
That is the only Biblical model I think you'll find anywhere in scripture.

I feel much differently about FREELY GIVING, FROM MY HEART, to PEOPLE I FEEL MOVED TO HELP... than having the govt forcibly remove some ever-changing and arbitrary amount of my income to give it to whatever cause they happen to favor this week, knowing full-well that a good portion of that money is just going to end up lost through govt waste, laziness, and corruption anyway.


....
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,271
1,911
113
#48
We really need to be more careful in drawing distinctions.

All Christians, including all the Christians on the "right", believe in helping the poor... at least they do if they read the Bible.
It's something we ALL believe.

However, we disagree on HOW we should help the poor.

Most of us, on the right, don't believe there is any Biblical mandate for the GOVERNMENT to FORCIBLY TAKE things from one group of people, and give those things to... well... whoever they please. That just isn't the Biblical model.

The Biblical model is that each of us, as we feel led, should give directly to the poor... as much as we feel led, and to whomever we feel led.
That is the only Biblical model I think you'll find anywhere in scripture.

I feel much differently about FREELY GIVING, FROM MY HEART, to PEOPLE I FEEL MOVED TO HELP... than having the govt forcibly remove some ever-changing and arbitrary amount of my income to give it to whatever cause they happen to favor this week, knowing full-well that a good portion of that money is just going to end up lost through govt waste, laziness, and corruption anyway.


....
Understood, What I'm concerned about is the growing discrepancy between the classes bc of loop-holes, tax breaks, legislation written by corps, and deceit. Sadly to the extreme of lefties is some, not all, heathenists and to the extreme right is the alt-right. Too bad there isn't a fix for this dilemma.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,220
1,422
113
#49
Understood, What I'm concerned about is the growing discrepancy between the classes bc of loop-holes, tax breaks, legislation written by corps, and deceit. Sadly to the extreme of lefties is some, not all, heathenists and to the extreme right is the alt-right. Too bad there isn't a fix for this dilemma.
We live in a fallen world, and there's plenty to be concerned about... that's for sure.

As Christians, the key is get past all the rhetoric, and really try to focus in on the Biblical principles... it can be harder than it sounds.

...
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,710
2,746
113
#50
The 'rich' Jesus was talking about

The 'rich' Jesus was referring to in Mt 19:24

Funny how those that bash the "rich" don't even realize that THEY are among the wealthiest people on planet Earth.

YOU Tabitha are very likely in the top ONE PERCENT of wealthiest people on Earth. If you make slightly more than $32, 000 a year you qualify as being in the top 1%. $25,000 puts you in the top 2%.

So basically, 99 out of every one hundred people on Earth are poorer than you. Here is a site you can plug in your income to see exactly how incredibly rich you are.

Are YOU the "rich" man Jesus was referring to? and if not, why not?

http://www.globalrichlist.com/
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
854
526
93
Texas
#51
I do believe the Democratic Part was once for the minority and honestly a great party, look at FDR. But today has the party changed to people who are socialist? Maybe it's just a sect of people.... but it is an important sect... the ones who want to "run" the Country.

Would we be better as a Socialist Nation?
during his four terms in office, Roosevelt had a close relationship with Southern Jim Crow Democrats (“Dixiecrats”) and often went out of his way to not disrupt the “southern way of life” of Jim Crow. Thus, he remained silent on segregation and in 1935 refused to support the federal anti-lynching legislation of the Costigan-Wagner bill. In 1937 FDR appointed Hugo Black, a U.S Senator from Alabama and known member of the Ku Klux Klan, to the US Supreme Court. Black went on to validate FDR’s decision to incarcerate Japanese Americans by writing the court’s majority opinion in the case of Korematsu v. United States. In 1941, FDR appointed James F. Byrnes, a former US Senator from South Carolina and staunch segregationist to the US Supreme Court. Byrnes left the court a year later to serve as FDR’s Director of Office of Economic Stabilization, and between 1943-1945 served as the Director of FDR’s Office of War Mobilization. Byrnes was on FDR’s short list for Vice President in 1944.

Growth wasn’t expanded and things such as middle class people having cars went from the Coolidge reality to an FDR luxury slipping away. He did absurd things in calls to “help” the economy. He would randomly do things such as killing and burning pigs, cows, and chickens, wrongfully confiscating them from farmers and claiming it was to “help” them. This was the era people such as Ronald Reagan grew up in and developed the greatest fear, being people such as FDR coming on and saying that they are from the government and here to “help”.

With the word “help”, FDR saw himself as by far the single worst president in regards to employment, economic growth, price stability, market growth, savings growth or anything of substance. Even policies such as Social Security now seen as staples of American living were originally called out as scams to be excuses to raise taxes for the government and have people never live to collect benefits on them. He stunted productivity offering “help” to the arts, but his programs quickly became cash grabs for people. An example being him offering financial aid to artists and watching the number of people going from marked as an actor, musician or artist in Louisiana go from under 1,000 to 40,000 in a year and no visible indicators it helped anyone. It was this reckless growth which would involve people literally digging holes and filling them up without any actual gains. Roads were built which would never find any serious use or wouldn’t for decades. This new birth of government power would give him the ability to do the crown jewel of American statism: the Japanese Internment. The often forgotten moment FDR would “help” American safety and just place 100,000+ people in concentration style camps purely based on ethnic group and regardless of having lived in America for generations, being forced to sell their property and liquefy assets in the name of safety. Many believing this just being “help” for wealthier property owners in California who benefited due to the cheap farmland for sale.

fdr, was a border line dictator, racist, who prolonged the great depression by many years.

Socialism if the worship of Government.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,271
1,911
113
#52
Funny how those that bash the "rich" don't even realize that THEY are among the wealthiest people on planet Earth.

YOU Tabitha are very likely in the top ONE PERCENT of wealthiest people on Earth. If you make slightly more than $32, 000 a year you qualify as being in the top 1%. $25,000 puts you in the top 2%.

So basically, 99 out of every one hundred people on Earth are poorer than you. Here is a site you can plug in your income to see exactly how incredibly rich you are.

Are YOU the "rich" man Jesus was referring to? and if not, why not?

http://www.globalrichlist.com/
Lesson learned. In the future when I refer to the 'rich' I have in mind I'll replace 'rich' with 'the filthy-lucre' meaning in NT=sordid, given to greed for money; eager for base gain. 1 Tim 3 and other verses explains who I meant. Did it sound like I was condemning just anyone who was rich, yeah it must have.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,271
1,911
113
#53
during his four terms in office, Roosevelt had a close relationship with Southern Jim Crow Democrats (“Dixiecrats”) and often went out of his way to not disrupt the “southern way of life” of Jim Crow. Thus, he remained silent on segregation and in 1935 refused to support the federal anti-lynching legislation of the Costigan-Wagner bill. In 1937 FDR appointed Hugo Black, a U.S Senator from Alabama and known member of the Ku Klux Klan, to the US Supreme Court. Black went on to validate FDR’s decision to incarcerate Japanese Americans by writing the court’s majority opinion in the case of Korematsu v. United States. In 1941, FDR appointed James F. Byrnes, a former US Senator from South Carolina and staunch segregationist to the US Supreme Court. Byrnes left the court a year later to serve as FDR’s Director of Office of Economic Stabilization, and between 1943-1945 served as the Director of FDR’s Office of War Mobilization. Byrnes was on FDR’s short list for Vice President in 1944.

Growth wasn’t expanded and things such as middle class people having cars went from the Coolidge reality to an FDR luxury slipping away. He did absurd things in calls to “help” the economy. He would randomly do things such as killing and burning pigs, cows, and chickens, wrongfully confiscating them from farmers and claiming it was to “help” them. This was the era people such as Ronald Reagan grew up in and developed the greatest fear, being people such as FDR coming on and saying that they are from the government and here to “help”.

With the word “help”, FDR saw himself as by far the single worst president in regards to employment, economic growth, price stability, market growth, savings growth or anything of substance. Even policies such as Social Security now seen as staples of American living were originally called out as scams to be excuses to raise taxes for the government and have people never live to collect benefits on them. He stunted productivity offering “help” to the arts, but his programs quickly became cash grabs for people. An example being him offering financial aid to artists and watching the number of people going from marked as an actor, musician or artist in Louisiana go from under 1,000 to 40,000 in a year and no visible indicators it helped anyone. It was this reckless growth which would involve people literally digging holes and filling them up without any actual gains. Roads were built which would never find any serious use or wouldn’t for decades. This new birth of government power would give him the ability to do the crown jewel of American statism: the Japanese Internment. The often forgotten moment FDR would “help” American safety and just place 100,000+ people in concentration style camps purely based on ethnic group and regardless of having lived in America for generations, being forced to sell their property and liquefy assets in the name of safety. Many believing this just being “help” for wealthier property owners in California who benefited due to the cheap farmland for sale.

fdr, was a border line dictator, racist, who prolonged the great depression by many years.

Socialism if the worship of Government.
You left out anything good he did. Gee he must have deceived hundreds of thousands who voted him President 4 times. Show me a President who has a clean slate even Pres Eisenhower, who I admire, was having an affair as was FDR & others. No one can imagine the pressures the Pres must have coming to him, that's why they all age so fast. My dad lived through FDR and made it only through the CCC, having a false eye and burnt hand, he got WORK. We still have ration coupons to make sure everyone got by. His 'fire-side' chats bring tears to my eyes and he was against those filthy-lucre types trying to take over then. An honorable gent, Smedley D Butler, the most decorated Marine in US history warned FDR of a coup the opposition wanted him to participate in, saving FDR from this conspiracy. Do I think these two men are in Heaven? I'm thinking yeah...oh, and I already know, that's God's job to decide.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
854
526
93
Texas
#54
You left out anything good he did. Gee he must have deceived hundreds of thousands who voted him President 4 times. Show me a President who has a clean slate even Pres Eisenhower, who I admire, was having an affair as was FDR & others. No one can imagine the pressures the Pres must have coming to him, that's why they all age so fast. My dad lived through FDR and made it only through the CCC, having a false eye and burnt hand, he got WORK. We still have ration coupons to make sure everyone got by. His 'fire-side' chats bring tears to my eyes and he was against those filthy-lucre types trying to take over then. An honorable gent, Smedley D Butler, the most decorated Marine in US history warned FDR of a coup the opposition wanted him to participate in, saving FDR from this conspiracy. Do I think these two men are in Heaven? I'm thinking yeah...oh, and I already know, that's God's job to decide.
I'm gonna keep it short and refrain from personal ranker concerning the man.
His new deal prolonged the depression exponentially, He supported racism which had had lasting effects even to this day ( yes I believe the slavery issue would be healed by now if it weren't for Jim crow), He had all the Olympians visit the white except the black ones.
The only reason he won elections was because our victories in WWII and people didn't understand how his social programs were retarding economic growth. I could go on but person ranker would begin to show.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,118
365
83
#55
You left out anything good he did. Gee he must have deceived hundreds of thousands who voted him President 4 times. Show me a President who has a clean slate even Pres Eisenhower, who I admire, was having an affair as was FDR & others. No one can imagine the pressures the Pres must have coming to him, that's why they all age so fast. My dad lived through FDR and made it only through the CCC, having a false eye and burnt hand, he got WORK. We still have ration coupons to make sure everyone got by. His 'fire-side' chats bring tears to my eyes and he was against those filthy-lucre types trying to take over then. An honorable gent, Smedley D Butler, the most decorated Marine in US history warned FDR of a coup the opposition wanted him to participate in, saving FDR from this conspiracy. Do I think these two men are in Heaven? I'm thinking yeah...oh, and I already know, that's God's job to decide.
he wasnt that bad, people dont vote four times for an evil scumbag and people back then were more self aware of their government than we are today.
IMO FDR was involved in corruption and did some shady dealings behind closed doors, but this is every president, if they didnt they could never be president to begin with. presidents are never elected, they are selected. in the end he was less dirty than the rest.
FDR came from an extremely wealthy family that was closely tied into banking and the US has been at war with bankers from the beginning.

“I sincerely believe... that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies. “
-Thomas Jefferson

"Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God, I will rout you out."
- Andrew Jackson
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,271
1,911
113
#56
I'm gonna keep it short and refrain from personal ranker concerning the man.
His new deal prolonged the depression exponentially, He supported racism which had had lasting effects even to this day ( yes I believe the slavery issue would be healed by now if it weren't for Jim crow), He had all the Olympians visit the white except the black ones.
The only reason he won elections was because our victories in WWII and people didn't understand how his social programs were retarding economic growth. I could go on but person ranker would begin to show.
Quote: US News,4/10/15 'By the time he (FDR) left power, the nation had become a superpower with newfound prosperity....and would build on that power for many years'. I don't dare presume the motives for some of the wrong ways he went. Btw, who do you think was behind the coup that Smedley Butler (high status in Marine Corp) rescued him from?
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,149
766
113
#57
i have a story about everything. i never collected unemployment until just a few years back, after you have kids you dont get to make those choices, after i went back to work, a year later i got a letter that i have to pay the money back. i did a lot of reading on this and come to find out this is quite common today. unemployment used to be taken out of your check, now the employer pays it, they charge that back to the employee when deciding pay rate, and when you do need it, its a loan.
yes i put my hand out one time and it got slapped back.
Wow, did not know unemployment worked that way.
That is just wrong.
Maybe we should go to Little Rock during the next session and confront our congressmen and Asa to change this.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,118
365
83
#58
Wow, did not know unemployment worked that way.
That is just wrong.
Maybe we should go to Little Rock during the next session and confront our congressmen and Asa to change this.
i wanna throw a pie at him like that lady did with jeff skilling in california!
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,118
365
83
#59
Lesson learned. In the future when I refer to the 'rich' I have in mind I'll replace 'rich' with 'the filthy-lucre' meaning in NT=sordid, given to greed for money; eager for base gain. 1 Tim 3 and other verses explains who I meant. Did it sound like I was condemning just anyone who was rich, yeah it must have.
thats right TR, your one of the richest on the planet when compared to the poorest on the planet. when compared with other developed nations its a very different story. the US has been sliding further and further down that chart.
i have always liked the terms "developed" and "underdeveloped" nations. an underdeveloped nation would be like one of them poor places in Africa but the truth of it is most of those countries were developing just fine until colonialist got there.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
854
526
93
Texas
#60
Quote: US News,4/10/15 'By the time he (FDR) left power, the nation had become a superpower with newfound prosperity....and would build on that power for many years'. I don't dare presume the motives for some of the wrong ways he went. Btw, who do you think was behind the coup that Smedley Butler (high status in Marine Corp) rescued him from?
Well duh, with the rest of the industrialized world mostly destroyed by the war, and all of their resources spent fighting and having no choice but to buy American munitions for several years and then left with only American hardware to rebuild and then only American products to live on how could he have missed. It wasn't his social policies it was the monopolistic circumstances the rest of the world was stuck with. He was a vile nasty hate filled racsist brown strip on a white rag, but with the deck totally stacked on his favor only an idiot could miss.