I wish people would re-read what I said. Of course, Eve WAS deceived by the serpent. In my post #87, this is what I said:
Eve confessed her sin, Adam did not. If he was supposed to be the leader, he should have stood steadfast and not eaten of the fruit himself. I'm not sure how that would have worked out theologically for the future, but the fact is, Adam was told directly by God, and then he blamed Eve, instead of confessing. That is a double sin - eating and directly disobeying God, and then refusing to confess his sin.
I do see Eve as complicit in the garden. It is OBVIOUS!! But what is not so obvious, is that she willingly confessed to eating the fruit, even though she had only heard the command second hand from Adam (I'm assuming, since it is not directly written in the Bible, because she did appear to know that she was not supposed to eat the fruit). And really, if she started the Fall, Adam certainly sealed the deal with his disobedience and lack of confession.
"To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’" Gen. 3:17 and the verses following contain his curse. (The curses of the woman are in verse 16) Notice once again, God is telling Adam that he commanded ADAM (not Eve) in this verse. Technically the woman was not commanded by God, thus the references to her being only deceived, not directly disobedient.
So I maintain my position, and I would ask that people PLEASE read the whole post before they start casting stones. Women are fallen, men are fallen, which in my opinion, made us equal in sin and death.
God did punish the woman, but he also punished the man. Jesus delivered us from sin and death, meaning we are all set free from the curse. This is the New Covenant. (Gal. 3:28)
As for Paul, he was certainly recounting the part of the Fall which was relevant to the church in Corinth. I think elsewhere in the book, he addresses the sins of certain men.
"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife." 1 Cor. 5:1.
In 1 Timothy he also addresses specific sins to two men.
"Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme." 1 Tim. 1:20
"Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will repay him for what he has done." 1 Tim. 4:14
In fact, I have heard it said that there was a woman in Ephesus who was causing great harm in the church, but Paul did not name her, because he hoped to have her restored to the fellowship. What is extremely important about this verse, is that it does not apply to ALL women!! It is about A woman who is causing problems in the church.
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." 1Tim 2:11-12
It does not say SOME women or ALL women, but is addressed to A (singular) woman who was causing problems, probably a former priestess of Artemis. The pronoun SHE in the latter part of the verse is also singular because that is the tense of the verb. If Paul was wanting to address all women, for all time, he would have used the plural from of the verb (they) and made it a continuing tense.
The first verb in Greek which then applies to following verses in this passage is LEARN. This is μανθανανέω or manthananeo*. Because the third person pronoun is contained within the verb in Greek, I will examine this verb and the parsing is as follows:
PRESENT - That means it has to happen, NOW, - not the future or the past
IMPERATIVE - a woman is commanded to do this
ACTIVE - Means that the person must do it- it is not done to her
3 PERSON - he, she, it (in the singular) they (plural)
SINGULAR - ONE person only!!
Therefore the GREEK is very clear in saying that it is something that this woman is commanded to do NOW!! It is not forever, it is not continuing (Imperfect), it is not past or future. We do not have this verb tense in English, and properly it should be translated "LET HER".
ONE WOMAN, ONE PERSON - time is right now - in Ephesus in the 1st century AD.
I do hope some of you will take the time to read this. As I have said in so many places - (and NOT just about women), without a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew, you are depending on the personal bias of the translator. Although in this case, it is a pretty good translation. Single, present, and oh yes. Paul is personally commanding it to this woman, which also means it is a personal command, addressed to a single person, in a specific church -Ephesus! When we read the personal letters of Paul, which 1 & 2 Timothy both are, good hermeneutics is that he is talking directly to Timothy, the young pastor, about how to deal with specific situations - two men who are bad and a woman who needs to be corrected!
*The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament, Cleon Rogers Jr, and Cleon Rogers III, Zondervan Publishing House, 1998.
PS. Apologies for having to quote my own post. I did not quote others, because they did not see what I wrote, and seemed to be attacking me for saying something I did not. I apologize for that, if I was mistaken about their reading skills!!!
And Adam, refused to acknowledge his guilt, and blamed Eve, who at least had the decency to confess honestly what she had done.
I do see Eve as complicit in the garden. It is OBVIOUS!! But what is not so obvious, is that she willingly confessed to eating the fruit, even though she had only heard the command second hand from Adam (I'm assuming, since it is not directly written in the Bible, because she did appear to know that she was not supposed to eat the fruit). And really, if she started the Fall, Adam certainly sealed the deal with his disobedience and lack of confession.
"To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’" Gen. 3:17 and the verses following contain his curse. (The curses of the woman are in verse 16) Notice once again, God is telling Adam that he commanded ADAM (not Eve) in this verse. Technically the woman was not commanded by God, thus the references to her being only deceived, not directly disobedient.
So I maintain my position, and I would ask that people PLEASE read the whole post before they start casting stones. Women are fallen, men are fallen, which in my opinion, made us equal in sin and death.
God did punish the woman, but he also punished the man. Jesus delivered us from sin and death, meaning we are all set free from the curse. This is the New Covenant. (Gal. 3:28)
As for Paul, he was certainly recounting the part of the Fall which was relevant to the church in Corinth. I think elsewhere in the book, he addresses the sins of certain men.
"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife." 1 Cor. 5:1.
In 1 Timothy he also addresses specific sins to two men.
"Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme." 1 Tim. 1:20
"Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will repay him for what he has done." 1 Tim. 4:14
In fact, I have heard it said that there was a woman in Ephesus who was causing great harm in the church, but Paul did not name her, because he hoped to have her restored to the fellowship. What is extremely important about this verse, is that it does not apply to ALL women!! It is about A woman who is causing problems in the church.
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." 1Tim 2:11-12
It does not say SOME women or ALL women, but is addressed to A (singular) woman who was causing problems, probably a former priestess of Artemis. The pronoun SHE in the latter part of the verse is also singular because that is the tense of the verb. If Paul was wanting to address all women, for all time, he would have used the plural from of the verb (they) and made it a continuing tense.
The first verb in Greek which then applies to following verses in this passage is LEARN. This is μανθανανέω or manthananeo*. Because the third person pronoun is contained within the verb in Greek, I will examine this verb and the parsing is as follows:
PRESENT - That means it has to happen, NOW, - not the future or the past
IMPERATIVE - a woman is commanded to do this
ACTIVE - Means that the person must do it- it is not done to her
3 PERSON - he, she, it (in the singular) they (plural)
SINGULAR - ONE person only!!
Therefore the GREEK is very clear in saying that it is something that this woman is commanded to do NOW!! It is not forever, it is not continuing (Imperfect), it is not past or future. We do not have this verb tense in English, and properly it should be translated "LET HER".
ONE WOMAN, ONE PERSON - time is right now - in Ephesus in the 1st century AD.
I do hope some of you will take the time to read this. As I have said in so many places - (and NOT just about women), without a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew, you are depending on the personal bias of the translator. Although in this case, it is a pretty good translation. Single, present, and oh yes. Paul is personally commanding it to this woman, which also means it is a personal command, addressed to a single person, in a specific church -Ephesus! When we read the personal letters of Paul, which 1 & 2 Timothy both are, good hermeneutics is that he is talking directly to Timothy, the young pastor, about how to deal with specific situations - two men who are bad and a woman who needs to be corrected!
*The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament, Cleon Rogers Jr, and Cleon Rogers III, Zondervan Publishing House, 1998.
PS. Apologies for having to quote my own post. I did not quote others, because they did not see what I wrote, and seemed to be attacking me for saying something I did not. I apologize for that, if I was mistaken about their reading skills!!!