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M
So are you saying instead of taking the initiative to try and help her understand her future and what's best for her...
Take the tools of knowledge and wisdom which is actually beneficial for her and replace it with an abundance of things that will only create more issues for her to sort out at a later time as well as creating further rship issues for herself and any guy she chooses to be with later.
How many people do you see really "sort things out properly" on their own, without the aid of someone who knows.
I havent talked to very many 16 yr old ladies in this dilemma, mostly because they are not adults yet and also because their own parents should be part of the helpful equation.
Although I have spoken with enough of them as well as guys that age to know and understand what you're speaking of.
They have asked questions such as how to please their boyfriend, what they could wear that looks sexy on a date, and things of that nature.
All I see with this is that nobody has ever been an example for them of how to do right.
They live in the world and so wish to be friends of the world. When that isn't what we're called to be.
I plainly let them know try not to worry about those things until they are at least:
1. an adult
2. wouldn't put undue stress upon her own parents for getting into trouble
3. dress modestly so as to not draw attention to themselves since if that's the kind of attention they're looking for then that is the kind of attention they will receive. A young guy most likely wont look past her looks to get to know her as a person, will not have much respect for her for giving in sexually too soon and those self-esteem issues of hers you spoke of will just be multiplied.
It's alright to have a crush or attraction at that age and possibly even date
But I believe AFTER good values have been instilled.
On the other hand I HAVE spoken with many more ladies that are older in their 20's and later who have not ever been given those instructions I spoke of, neither from their parents or teachers and saw the aftermath of.
And do you wanna know what each and every one of them has said?
"I wish someone would have told me all this before"
"I wish my parents would have showed me more discipline"
I've even heard, "I wish my dad would have spanked me when I was younger"
In other words do you realize how many kids and teens are actually testing their parents to see if they will step up to their responsibility of being a parent.
And when it doesnt happen it allows the child and teen to think it's ok to make their own rules and go through life with the only knowledge of having to learn from their own mistakes.
I say there is a better way, a much better way.
And that is providing knowledge BEFORE mistakes and regrettable decisions are made.
As the bible puts it,"teaching them the way they should go and when they get older they will not depart from the path"
This is no boastful thing on my part, I'm not bragging ok
What I am doing is suggesting that people must be able and willing to speak the truth
The truth of righteousness.
Now, on the other hand I have spoken with ladies who have gotten pregnant, had 3 kids by the time they were 21, had 2 divorces by the time they're 26 and looking for another man (mostly to take care of her and her kids) and all this was
....WITH CONTRACEPTION BEING AVAILABLE.
I have spoken with some who when younger at ONLY 15 yrs of age have said their mom said it was ok to date someone up to the age of 30
And this while their mom is a Christian.
And I have to point out that this is a recipe for disaster.
It has the possibility of working yes, with 2 Christians, but number one if a guy is 30 and wanting to date a 15 yr old then he is obviously not a Christian and likely not going to be Noble and respectable enough to wait until she is 18 to propose since that is what dating should be the purpose of anyway, the mindset of marriage.
Not playing around to pass the time or fill a void of loneliness.
And after I have offered my advice I hear things like,
"but momma said it was ok" or my sister said or my friends mom lets her blah blah.
Who steps up to the plate and tells them what good morals are if their own parents don't?
Well, it has to be other people then, people who can be able to speak the truth.
Most People for some reason give in to the peer pressure of the world.
Well Christians don't, and a Christian should be teaching others how not to.
A person under the age of consent should be being taught how to be responsible in their actions.
Not how to light a fire and go play with it and see what happens
Then AFTERWARD of them getting burned their elders THEN decide to teach such a person what they COULD have done to prevent it.
Experience is a bitter teacher my friend.
It's like "oh ya wanna play with fire, ok well if ur gonna do it anyway here's a Bic lighter. Whoops ya burned someones house down, ahhh geez sorry to hear that, lets see if we can get ya a lawyer now to defend yourself in court for arson, lets try and work out a deal with the house owners for restitution, lets etc etc."
Or the wiser choice would be to just say,
"Ummm yeah ur not old enough yet to be playing with matches.
And THESE ARE THE REASONS WHY...x y z"
It helps to couple it with the reason why to refrain from something in order to provide a greater understanding of all things.
Give and teach the tools for responsibility instead of handing them the tools for destruction.
Take the tools of knowledge and wisdom which is actually beneficial for her and replace it with an abundance of things that will only create more issues for her to sort out at a later time as well as creating further rship issues for herself and any guy she chooses to be with later.
How many people do you see really "sort things out properly" on their own, without the aid of someone who knows.
I havent talked to very many 16 yr old ladies in this dilemma, mostly because they are not adults yet and also because their own parents should be part of the helpful equation.
Although I have spoken with enough of them as well as guys that age to know and understand what you're speaking of.
They have asked questions such as how to please their boyfriend, what they could wear that looks sexy on a date, and things of that nature.
All I see with this is that nobody has ever been an example for them of how to do right.
They live in the world and so wish to be friends of the world. When that isn't what we're called to be.
I plainly let them know try not to worry about those things until they are at least:
1. an adult
2. wouldn't put undue stress upon her own parents for getting into trouble
3. dress modestly so as to not draw attention to themselves since if that's the kind of attention they're looking for then that is the kind of attention they will receive. A young guy most likely wont look past her looks to get to know her as a person, will not have much respect for her for giving in sexually too soon and those self-esteem issues of hers you spoke of will just be multiplied.
It's alright to have a crush or attraction at that age and possibly even date
But I believe AFTER good values have been instilled.
On the other hand I HAVE spoken with many more ladies that are older in their 20's and later who have not ever been given those instructions I spoke of, neither from their parents or teachers and saw the aftermath of.
And do you wanna know what each and every one of them has said?
"I wish someone would have told me all this before"
"I wish my parents would have showed me more discipline"
I've even heard, "I wish my dad would have spanked me when I was younger"
In other words do you realize how many kids and teens are actually testing their parents to see if they will step up to their responsibility of being a parent.
And when it doesnt happen it allows the child and teen to think it's ok to make their own rules and go through life with the only knowledge of having to learn from their own mistakes.
I say there is a better way, a much better way.
And that is providing knowledge BEFORE mistakes and regrettable decisions are made.
As the bible puts it,"teaching them the way they should go and when they get older they will not depart from the path"
This is no boastful thing on my part, I'm not bragging ok
What I am doing is suggesting that people must be able and willing to speak the truth
The truth of righteousness.
Now, on the other hand I have spoken with ladies who have gotten pregnant, had 3 kids by the time they were 21, had 2 divorces by the time they're 26 and looking for another man (mostly to take care of her and her kids) and all this was
....WITH CONTRACEPTION BEING AVAILABLE.
I have spoken with some who when younger at ONLY 15 yrs of age have said their mom said it was ok to date someone up to the age of 30
And this while their mom is a Christian.
And I have to point out that this is a recipe for disaster.
It has the possibility of working yes, with 2 Christians, but number one if a guy is 30 and wanting to date a 15 yr old then he is obviously not a Christian and likely not going to be Noble and respectable enough to wait until she is 18 to propose since that is what dating should be the purpose of anyway, the mindset of marriage.
Not playing around to pass the time or fill a void of loneliness.
And after I have offered my advice I hear things like,
"but momma said it was ok" or my sister said or my friends mom lets her blah blah.
Who steps up to the plate and tells them what good morals are if their own parents don't?
Well, it has to be other people then, people who can be able to speak the truth.
Most People for some reason give in to the peer pressure of the world.
Well Christians don't, and a Christian should be teaching others how not to.
A person under the age of consent should be being taught how to be responsible in their actions.
Not how to light a fire and go play with it and see what happens
Then AFTERWARD of them getting burned their elders THEN decide to teach such a person what they COULD have done to prevent it.
Experience is a bitter teacher my friend.
It's like "oh ya wanna play with fire, ok well if ur gonna do it anyway here's a Bic lighter. Whoops ya burned someones house down, ahhh geez sorry to hear that, lets see if we can get ya a lawyer now to defend yourself in court for arson, lets try and work out a deal with the house owners for restitution, lets etc etc."
Or the wiser choice would be to just say,
"Ummm yeah ur not old enough yet to be playing with matches.
And THESE ARE THE REASONS WHY...x y z"
It helps to couple it with the reason why to refrain from something in order to provide a greater understanding of all things.
Give and teach the tools for responsibility instead of handing them the tools for destruction.
M
I agree with you, some may not for this reason, but some actually do.
Regardless of their own reasons What I'd like to point out is,
It is THE ENEMY that teaches people to have sex outside of Gods guidelines to spite God.
In various ways, either through media, by example, peer pressure or what have you.
That's part of the good fight that we should be fighting against. Not giving in to the enemy.
Do you understand
Regardless of their own reasons What I'd like to point out is,
It is THE ENEMY that teaches people to have sex outside of Gods guidelines to spite God.
In various ways, either through media, by example, peer pressure or what have you.
That's part of the good fight that we should be fighting against. Not giving in to the enemy.
Do you understand
Exactly. I agree that people need to be taught about what sex does and how it's more than just an act. And if people WERE taught this young, and were given the affection and support they needed, it's likely that they would make better decisions. But teens don't take advice on board!
They see their friends having sex and they decide to do it too.
If a young girl coems on here and asks the question 'should I have sex', I'm not going to say 'yea, grab some condoms and go right ahead'. That's not what I'm getting at. I'm getting at the fact that a lot of these people AREN'T taught about sex and its implications and they DON'T think to come and ask.
And for people in that position, I think it's better contraception is available; whether they have the sense to use it or not. It does help some people; I'm proof of that.
They see their friends having sex and they decide to do it too.
If a young girl coems on here and asks the question 'should I have sex', I'm not going to say 'yea, grab some condoms and go right ahead'. That's not what I'm getting at. I'm getting at the fact that a lot of these people AREN'T taught about sex and its implications and they DON'T think to come and ask.
And for people in that position, I think it's better contraception is available; whether they have the sense to use it or not. It does help some people; I'm proof of that.
There is a trade off in our world as opposed to the East.
We allow sex before marriage and promiscuous relationships, and there are no penalties enforced by law; only the physical, emotional, mental and of course reproductive consequences of that.
Whereas in the East (in a lot of countries), such things are illegal and are severely and harshly punished, and women feel oppressed (as do many men), and there are horrible acts of murder commited for these things, which don't come into the teaching of forgiveness at all.
That's the trade off.
If anyone wants to live in a society where people are punished punitively for mistakes rather than one that allows people their freedom, feel free to go and live in one of those societies.
But we have the better setup here; with the chance not only to explore the motives for pre-marital and promiscuous sex (as it happens a lot in our culture), but to go down avenues where we can lessen it's consequences, particularly for those people who aren't well educated about the matter.
I would far rather live in a society that promotes the right to free contraception and has to deal with pregnancies or relationship issues, than one that promotes the killing of a sinner (which we ALL are) because they made a mistake.
To punish someone harshly for having sex, is not forgiving. The emotional and mental catastrophe that successive partners creates is alone payment enough in my eyes. That's the natural consequence God instated.
And you are right, we need to educate young people about the issues surrounding sex, but we also need to promote conditions of choice.
There's a story I often refer to, about the two types of parent:
On the one hand, there is the harsh parent that criticizes and punishes rather than explains and guides. And the child only stops doing the bad things because on the deepest level, he's afraid of the punishment. Now, it may stop him from doing the silly things, but it never gives him the love and affection that he craves (which is likely the reason he is led into doing the bad things. A void of love, I've been there).
And then there is the parent who never lifts his hand to the child, but explains and bonds with the child so that the child comes to respect him, and turns from the naughty things out or reverence for his father/mother.
The second way is how I believe Jesus treats us.
Throughout my journey with God, I've been rebuked and harshly criticized by some poeple, and I have never felt 'love' in their tone; only condemnation. They are people that I become averse to.
Whereas there are the people who encourage me, lift me up, look at things from my perspective and guide me towards a door without pushing me through it. Those are the people whom I truly listen to.
Does that make sense?
We allow sex before marriage and promiscuous relationships, and there are no penalties enforced by law; only the physical, emotional, mental and of course reproductive consequences of that.
Whereas in the East (in a lot of countries), such things are illegal and are severely and harshly punished, and women feel oppressed (as do many men), and there are horrible acts of murder commited for these things, which don't come into the teaching of forgiveness at all.
That's the trade off.
If anyone wants to live in a society where people are punished punitively for mistakes rather than one that allows people their freedom, feel free to go and live in one of those societies.
But we have the better setup here; with the chance not only to explore the motives for pre-marital and promiscuous sex (as it happens a lot in our culture), but to go down avenues where we can lessen it's consequences, particularly for those people who aren't well educated about the matter.
I would far rather live in a society that promotes the right to free contraception and has to deal with pregnancies or relationship issues, than one that promotes the killing of a sinner (which we ALL are) because they made a mistake.
To punish someone harshly for having sex, is not forgiving. The emotional and mental catastrophe that successive partners creates is alone payment enough in my eyes. That's the natural consequence God instated.
And you are right, we need to educate young people about the issues surrounding sex, but we also need to promote conditions of choice.
There's a story I often refer to, about the two types of parent:
On the one hand, there is the harsh parent that criticizes and punishes rather than explains and guides. And the child only stops doing the bad things because on the deepest level, he's afraid of the punishment. Now, it may stop him from doing the silly things, but it never gives him the love and affection that he craves (which is likely the reason he is led into doing the bad things. A void of love, I've been there).
And then there is the parent who never lifts his hand to the child, but explains and bonds with the child so that the child comes to respect him, and turns from the naughty things out or reverence for his father/mother.
The second way is how I believe Jesus treats us.
Throughout my journey with God, I've been rebuked and harshly criticized by some poeple, and I have never felt 'love' in their tone; only condemnation. They are people that I become averse to.
Whereas there are the people who encourage me, lift me up, look at things from my perspective and guide me towards a door without pushing me through it. Those are the people whom I truly listen to.
Does that make sense?
To force someone into having no choice, yes, might make them think twice about having sex, but there's no guarantee. And when the eventual (worsened) consequences of it arrive, they likely are going to feel very aggrieved that they never had contraception there as a safeguard against their own mental immaturity.
Force is not the right reason for people to stop having lots of sex, jsut the same way force isn't a valid enough reason for walking the God-path.
Force is not the right reason for people to stop having lots of sex, jsut the same way force isn't a valid enough reason for walking the God-path.
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K
Plan B has too many side effects and responsibilities for a 15 year old to comprehend????
I'd say being pregnant, and giving birth would complicate the 15 year olds life in far greater ways than taking a stupid pill. She wouldn't be prepared for the responsibilities and side effects of having a child of her own.... You seem to have gotten this backwards.
I'd say being pregnant, and giving birth would complicate the 15 year olds life in far greater ways than taking a stupid pill. She wouldn't be prepared for the responsibilities and side effects of having a child of her own.... You seem to have gotten this backwards.
H
I think the even bigger question is, should we make a baby suffer of that ignorance? Talk all we like, a baby will come into the world born to a child. The circumstances will not be good from the start for that little baby. And they could, in fact, be very bad. People kill me. Christians say that every baby should be allowed to come into the world, and then Christians turn around and say most humans won't make it to heaven but will end up burning forever in hell. Such a bizarre contradiction! So it's not OK for a child to take a morning after pill or have an abortion because they MUST bring that unwanted child into the world where it runs a BIG chance of being sent to hell to burn forever in eternal torment if it doesn't make certain exact choices? Do people ever think these things through? Gosh! Maybe we've got some doctrinal issues here? Some misunderstandings when it comes to scriptures? Ya think?
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H
This is all just a wonderful idea, but it's not reality. Responsible Christians do teach their children about such things, but irresponsible Christians and non-Christians don't necessarily do it right or even try, and many young people don't listen and do what they want anyway. Again and again, everyone is effected by the outcome, especially the babies. I do agree with what Nautilus said about people thinking unborn fetuses are more important that children already living and suffering in this world. It's idealism as opposed to realism, realism being what we actually deal with, idealism being what we wish the world was like.
Exactly. And the fact is; the morning after pill doesn't kill a child. An embryo isn't fertilized and embedded for at least around 3-5 days after sex.
It takes sperm over 3 days just to travel up the ovarian canals, by which stage, the morning after pill will have taken effect about 48 hours previous, blocking the sperm from reaching the egg, and detaching the released egg into mucus.
Even if it was fertilized, there are only a handful of cells produced in the first 24 hours after fertilization. They are like skin cells, or any other cells that die in the body. There's no brain, no heart, no lungs, no nervous system. Nothing but a few cells.
It takes sperm over 3 days just to travel up the ovarian canals, by which stage, the morning after pill will have taken effect about 48 hours previous, blocking the sperm from reaching the egg, and detaching the released egg into mucus.
Even if it was fertilized, there are only a handful of cells produced in the first 24 hours after fertilization. They are like skin cells, or any other cells that die in the body. There's no brain, no heart, no lungs, no nervous system. Nothing but a few cells.