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where are they?
if people are miraculously speaking languages they didn't learn, and proclaiming the Wonderful Works of God as evidence of the message...please show me where they are
if people are miraculously speaking languages they didn't learn, and proclaiming the Wonderful Works of God as evidence of the message...please show me where they are
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A
Is God really Powerful? Does He have to do things considered miracles? Is He Sovereign? Am i predestined?
Isnt everthing on my path directed? If it doesnt have blinking lights and shofar blasts isnt that still from His hand?
Isnt even the awful stuff in His plan? Isnt often the worst stuff the most lifechanging?
Sorry i see Him in all of it, and blessed is he who doesnt see yet believes. The darkest of times
in my life had the most transforming effect.
Isnt everthing on my path directed? If it doesnt have blinking lights and shofar blasts isnt that still from His hand?
Isnt even the awful stuff in His plan? Isnt often the worst stuff the most lifechanging?
Sorry i see Him in all of it, and blessed is he who doesnt see yet believes. The darkest of times
in my life had the most transforming effect.
A
Very nice Sarah, a study would show most of the time Jesus was asking where did they go(the ones healed or saw miracles)
Faith and character do not come from miracles. How many crossed Jordan? Who crucified the Lord? It creates a faith in miracles and the supernatural. Doesnt work for me especially when its propped by guesswork and mind games. And if you challenge or give it a test your called a dark, doubting, hatefilled..blah blah. What exactly did He mean "perverse generation"?
Faith and character do not come from miracles. How many crossed Jordan? Who crucified the Lord? It creates a faith in miracles and the supernatural. Doesnt work for me especially when its propped by guesswork and mind games. And if you challenge or give it a test your called a dark, doubting, hatefilled..blah blah. What exactly did He mean "perverse generation"?
M
[h=2]
Re: Dream interpretation[/h]
Originally Posted by MaggieMye
Inge: "I have a colleague whom is a New Ager, whom sees spirits since he was kid, and he can predict sometimes the future. (I explained exactly that I do not think it is biblical at all, and that it is from the wrong side and dangerous Your friend is has a prophetic gift FROM GOD, but his 'antennea' is tuned to the wrong channel. He is a 'seer as was Samuel, the prophet. And I learned from it (because I think this is an opportunity to learn to distinguish) that the devil imitates Gods gifts and really makes people blind for the truth. He feels very happy with his visions \e ONLY GOD has gifts to give. Satan can only distort the gift or cause a person, even unwittingly to use if for other than Kingdom purposes.
Dreams, can be dangerous. So both interpreting and discernment is the key." Dreams are never 'dangerous'; it cannot hurt you in any way. It is a MESSAGE so that YOU can take action and become the overcomer you were created to be. If we don't understand a dream, we are to SEEK the Lord on the matter. Even 'nightmares' have purpose because it is how God allows you to SEE what your enemies...both spiritual and natural...are up to. Then you pray and ask for strategy. You cancel assignments of the enemy against you. You prophesy the opposite of what the nightmare/dream showed you.
Maggie
maggie, where did you get all this from?
this dream warring stuff? Just study the dreams in the Bible. It's right there!!
Peter Wagner?n
ya...the online dream interpreters course. I did not even know that he had done a course on dreams, so....no.
Maggie - who are you to make this proclamation: "Your friend is has a prophetic gift FROM GOD, but his 'antennea' is tuned to the wrong channel. He is a 'seer as was Samuel, the prophet. "? Who am I? I am a daughter of the Most High God who BELIEVES what His words says and that He does not change and the what He says is TRUE. I am a daughter who has studied His ways and also the ways of the enemy so that I can better stand against him and his wiley ways. I am an overcomer.
and this:
"It is a MESSAGE so that YOU can take action and become the overcomer you were created to be."
do you have any clue what can happen to a new or confused believer when you tell them dreams are messages? Yes!! It empowers them to do the will of God!! It encourages them. It helps them to fight the good fight and to stand righteous.
think it through maggie. so there.
Inge: "I have a colleague whom is a New Ager, whom sees spirits since he was kid, and he can predict sometimes the future. (I explained exactly that I do not think it is biblical at all, and that it is from the wrong side and dangerous Your friend is has a prophetic gift FROM GOD, but his 'antennea' is tuned to the wrong channel. He is a 'seer as was Samuel, the prophet. And I learned from it (because I think this is an opportunity to learn to distinguish) that the devil imitates Gods gifts and really makes people blind for the truth. He feels very happy with his visions \e ONLY GOD has gifts to give. Satan can only distort the gift or cause a person, even unwittingly to use if for other than Kingdom purposes.
Dreams, can be dangerous. So both interpreting and discernment is the key." Dreams are never 'dangerous'; it cannot hurt you in any way. It is a MESSAGE so that YOU can take action and become the overcomer you were created to be. If we don't understand a dream, we are to SEEK the Lord on the matter. Even 'nightmares' have purpose because it is how God allows you to SEE what your enemies...both spiritual and natural...are up to. Then you pray and ask for strategy. You cancel assignments of the enemy against you. You prophesy the opposite of what the nightmare/dream showed you.
Maggie
maggie, where did you get all this from?
this dream warring stuff? Just study the dreams in the Bible. It's right there!!
Peter Wagner?n
ya...the online dream interpreters course. I did not even know that he had done a course on dreams, so....no.
Maggie - who are you to make this proclamation: "Your friend is has a prophetic gift FROM GOD, but his 'antennea' is tuned to the wrong channel. He is a 'seer as was Samuel, the prophet. "? Who am I? I am a daughter of the Most High God who BELIEVES what His words says and that He does not change and the what He says is TRUE. I am a daughter who has studied His ways and also the ways of the enemy so that I can better stand against him and his wiley ways. I am an overcomer.
and this:
"It is a MESSAGE so that YOU can take action and become the overcomer you were created to be."
do you have any clue what can happen to a new or confused believer when you tell them dreams are messages? Yes!! It empowers them to do the will of God!! It encourages them. It helps them to fight the good fight and to stand righteous.
think it through maggie. so there.
I agree with you because the beast it clearly what it always was in the Old Testament, as also well identified of Daniel.
It requires no interpretation but only paying attention.
These beasts always represent something to do with the secular governments of mankind.
The power behind them identified as the roaring beast Satan who sought control of mankind to govern them his way.
It requires no interpretation but only paying attention.
These beasts always represent something to do with the secular governments of mankind.
The power behind them identified as the roaring beast Satan who sought control of mankind to govern them his way.
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You don't have to agree....... but you should prove it.
So, it's okay for you to stereotype in judgment all who agree with this "other stuff"? Telling us we're no different than Benny hinn? This comes from the woman who believes that a woman shouldn't usurp authority over a man, yet does it every day in these forums by mocking us and telling us how wrong we are.
Note the Scripture:
Acts 11:5-12 [SUP]5 [/SUP]I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
Peter had no idea what that vision was about until he arrived...... it was not plain nor simple.
You're making all these judgments....... are you equal to Paul or Peter? What's the difference between your judgments and a papal bull? Note the Scripture:
Matthew 7:2 [SUP]2 [/SUP]For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Luke 6:37-38 [SUP]37 [/SUP]Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: [SUP]38 [/SUP]Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Luke 12:54-57 [SUP]54 [/SUP]And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is. [SUP]55 [/SUP]And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass. [SUP]56 [/SUP]Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time? [SUP]57 [/SUP]Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
John 5:30 [SUP]30 [/SUP]I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 8:15 [SUP]15[/SUP]Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
John 12:47 [SUP]47 [/SUP]And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 14:3 [SUP]3[/SUP]Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Romans 14:10 [SUP]10 [/SUP]But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Romans 14:13 [SUP]13[/SUP]Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
So, it's okay for you to stereotype in judgment all who agree with this "other stuff"? Telling us we're no different than Benny hinn? This comes from the woman who believes that a woman shouldn't usurp authority over a man, yet does it every day in these forums by mocking us and telling us how wrong we are.
Note the Scripture:
Acts 11:5-12 [SUP]5 [/SUP]I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
Peter had no idea what that vision was about until he arrived...... it was not plain nor simple.
You're making all these judgments....... are you equal to Paul or Peter? What's the difference between your judgments and a papal bull? Note the Scripture:
Matthew 7:2 [SUP]2 [/SUP]For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Luke 6:37-38 [SUP]37 [/SUP]Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: [SUP]38 [/SUP]Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Luke 12:54-57 [SUP]54 [/SUP]And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is. [SUP]55 [/SUP]And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass. [SUP]56 [/SUP]Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time? [SUP]57 [/SUP]Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
John 5:30 [SUP]30 [/SUP]I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 8:15 [SUP]15[/SUP]Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
John 12:47 [SUP]47 [/SUP]And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 14:3 [SUP]3[/SUP]Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Romans 14:10 [SUP]10 [/SUP]But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Romans 14:13 [SUP]13[/SUP]Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
no, continuationists are the ones who must prove continuation.
or ceasing then restart.
are you ever going to address that thorny issue?
how do his practices differ?
just to excess?
what's the difference?
if you don't spell it out, what do you expect?
....
who is "us"?
is there a gang? or are you and i talking?
.....
what's that got to do with you (or me)?
you're not Peter, you're not receiving the ground-breaking message that the gentiles would be joint-heirs with the jews.
are you?
....
what ground-breaking messages are you receiving?
anything authoritative?
does God speak directly through you - is that your claim?
right....so no touching the practices and doctrines of pentecostalism then.
if you aren't going to explain them, don't bother whipping out those passages.
okay, are you finished misusing those passages?
now show me the ones that say there will be Latter Rain/Latter Day prophets/apostle/gifts.
N.A.R. or any of that.
and show me the ones that say not to test all spirits, and check all things.
or ceasing then restart.
are you ever going to address that thorny issue?
how do his practices differ?
just to excess?
what's the difference?
if you don't spell it out, what do you expect?
....
who is "us"?
is there a gang? or are you and i talking?
.....
what's that got to do with you (or me)?
you're not Peter, you're not receiving the ground-breaking message that the gentiles would be joint-heirs with the jews.
are you?
....
what ground-breaking messages are you receiving?
anything authoritative?
does God speak directly through you - is that your claim?
right....so no touching the practices and doctrines of pentecostalism then.
if you aren't going to explain them, don't bother whipping out those passages.
okay, are you finished misusing those passages?
now show me the ones that say there will be Latter Rain/Latter Day prophets/apostle/gifts.
N.A.R. or any of that.
and show me the ones that say not to test all spirits, and check all things.
D
Well, now that we have once again moved away from the topic of dreams and dream interpretation and on to a debate about charismatic Christianity....(sigh). I would like to point out that almost half of all protestants claim to be charismatic, according to a Barna poll back in 2008. This poll shows that charismatic Christians are growing at a fast pace and not just among protestants. One third of all Catholics identify as being charismatic. Even as Charismatics grow, denominations like the Lutherans and Methodists (the frozen chosen)are decreasing.
I have personally experienced some of these gifts of the Spirit although I do not speak in tongues. So for me it is a foregone conclusion that being charismatic is the only way to go, for me. I believe we are starting to see God pour out His Spirit to prepare for the tribulation.
The Barna Group - Is American Christianity Turning Charismatic?
I have personally experienced some of these gifts of the Spirit although I do not speak in tongues. So for me it is a foregone conclusion that being charismatic is the only way to go, for me. I believe we are starting to see God pour out His Spirit to prepare for the tribulation.
The Barna Group - Is American Christianity Turning Charismatic?
J
i post on a lot of topics.
this particular run-away train is one of them.
yes, you misunderstood.
the Christian scriptures and the testimony of Jesus Christ and His Apostles is recorded.
when claims are made appealing to that authority, Christians generally discuss the claims.
what things?
the things that are already fulfilled? that's right.
you mean Acts 2?
which describes in precise detail the Day of Pentecost which came as Promised?
yes, i know that's what dispensationalists think.
what events are those?
Israel and 1948?
the new pope?
what events are going to take place that i'm not aware of Katy?
is it really?
post a couple of things you see in the Bible that are lining up right now.
that's slick, but it's not my position.
visions and dreams recorded in Scripture as coming from God we know are from God.
they were for a purpose, and it was made clear to us by God.
people claiming authoritative messages today (modern prophets etc) are in deep deep trouble.
so are those who are listening to them - it's self-evident.
??
until the rapture?
and the millennium?
all these gaps came from the same source - including the Acts 2/2000 year day of pentecost gap.
and who is the one who decides which dream is from God?
continuationism is dispensationalism.
Hebrews 1
1Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world
so his barking and babbling and making people fall over isn't a clue?
where is any of that in scripture?
his claiming God told him this and that?
see, as soon as people accepted the worst GAP (Daniel 9), they were ready for the new prophets.
you won't find them in church history - at all.
that's between you and The Lord.
how many steps is it from that to "God told me to tell you ______"?
i hear this lip service to scripture all the time from continuationists.
it's virtually become meaningless.
what does that even mean Katy?
if i have a flying dream or a car chase dream, as long as there's nothing in scripture about my black car needing to be a red car, it's clearly from God?
there's no end to this
a more serious example:
if someone thinks Daniel's 70th week is in our future - they are certain that's what the bible says; has a dream involving something like it - they say (probably genuinely, though genuinely wrong) that God told them/confirmed it in a dream.
they'll say it doesn't contradict scripture...because they think the 70th week is not fulfilled.
???
but - according to non-dispenationalist readings - they couldn't be MORE wrong.
don't we have to know what scripture actually says before we use it as dictionary/glossary to interpret our subjective experiences?
i agree. our individual communion with God.
what do your dreams have to do with John Doe?
are you ever going to feel 100% certain God has authorized you to give a message directly from Him to John Doe?
how people do this so freely without fear is just amazing to me...but even a tiny bit of research shows how this entered in - the Second and Third Waves.
not one of us alive today is authorized by The Lord to speak on His behalf/have Him speak through us (thus saith The Lord : "first person"), outside of what He has already revealed.
not one.
why is this so offensive to people?
can He do it? of course He can - did He say He would?
God answers prayer.
God acts in our lives. in every detail.
your dream is between you and The Lord.
if you believe it made something clear, and He answered your prayer for clarity or whatever, through a dream, that's fine.
again - how many steps away are we then from proclaiming we are prophets?
i wonder how many prophets there are today?
okay....would you go searching for someone who claimed they had an actual gift (directly from God) to be able to interpret your dream for you?
on His behalf?
this claim says God is speaking directly through that person to you.
do you accept these claims?
do you make them yourself?
i haven't seen you make that claim.
yes Katy, the same way He does for all His people
it isn't - until we make the claim that His communication to us (however we see that worked out in our lives) holds the same authority as His written word.
why this isn't clear i don't know.
continuationism by definition must make the claim that what God is supposedly saying to certain people (all?) is on par with, and is as authoritative as His Word.
if that claim is not made; what exactly are we saying we have in the way of "gifts"?
that the gifts are not authoritative? then what are they?
no, the confusion came in from another source.
i'll let this straw man hang there.
this particular run-away train is one of them.
yes, you misunderstood.
the Christian scriptures and the testimony of Jesus Christ and His Apostles is recorded.
when claims are made appealing to that authority, Christians generally discuss the claims.
what things?
the things that are already fulfilled? that's right.
you mean Acts 2?
which describes in precise detail the Day of Pentecost which came as Promised?
yes, i know that's what dispensationalists think.
what events are those?
Israel and 1948?
the new pope?
what events are going to take place that i'm not aware of Katy?
is it really?
post a couple of things you see in the Bible that are lining up right now.
that's slick, but it's not my position.
visions and dreams recorded in Scripture as coming from God we know are from God.
they were for a purpose, and it was made clear to us by God.
people claiming authoritative messages today (modern prophets etc) are in deep deep trouble.
so are those who are listening to them - it's self-evident.
??
until the rapture?
and the millennium?
all these gaps came from the same source - including the Acts 2/2000 year day of pentecost gap.
and who is the one who decides which dream is from God?
continuationism is dispensationalism.
Hebrews 1
1Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world
so his barking and babbling and making people fall over isn't a clue?
where is any of that in scripture?
his claiming God told him this and that?
see, as soon as people accepted the worst GAP (Daniel 9), they were ready for the new prophets.
you won't find them in church history - at all.
that's between you and The Lord.
how many steps is it from that to "God told me to tell you ______"?
i hear this lip service to scripture all the time from continuationists.
it's virtually become meaningless.
what does that even mean Katy?
if i have a flying dream or a car chase dream, as long as there's nothing in scripture about my black car needing to be a red car, it's clearly from God?
there's no end to this
a more serious example:
if someone thinks Daniel's 70th week is in our future - they are certain that's what the bible says; has a dream involving something like it - they say (probably genuinely, though genuinely wrong) that God told them/confirmed it in a dream.
they'll say it doesn't contradict scripture...because they think the 70th week is not fulfilled.
???
but - according to non-dispenationalist readings - they couldn't be MORE wrong.
don't we have to know what scripture actually says before we use it as dictionary/glossary to interpret our subjective experiences?
i agree. our individual communion with God.
what do your dreams have to do with John Doe?
are you ever going to feel 100% certain God has authorized you to give a message directly from Him to John Doe?
how people do this so freely without fear is just amazing to me...but even a tiny bit of research shows how this entered in - the Second and Third Waves.
not one of us alive today is authorized by The Lord to speak on His behalf/have Him speak through us (thus saith The Lord : "first person"), outside of what He has already revealed.
not one.
why is this so offensive to people?
can He do it? of course He can - did He say He would?
God answers prayer.
God acts in our lives. in every detail.
your dream is between you and The Lord.
if you believe it made something clear, and He answered your prayer for clarity or whatever, through a dream, that's fine.
again - how many steps away are we then from proclaiming we are prophets?
i wonder how many prophets there are today?
okay....would you go searching for someone who claimed they had an actual gift (directly from God) to be able to interpret your dream for you?
on His behalf?
this claim says God is speaking directly through that person to you.
do you accept these claims?
do you make them yourself?
i haven't seen you make that claim.
yes Katy, the same way He does for all His people
it isn't - until we make the claim that His communication to us (however we see that worked out in our lives) holds the same authority as His written word.
why this isn't clear i don't know.
continuationism by definition must make the claim that what God is supposedly saying to certain people (all?) is on par with, and is as authoritative as His Word.
if that claim is not made; what exactly are we saying we have in the way of "gifts"?
that the gifts are not authoritative? then what are they?
no, the confusion came in from another source.
i'll let this straw man hang there.
good grief zone!!! how did you cut up quotes like that? you got skills!!!!
ahh, how do you explain the fast growth rate of JW's, Mormons and other so called "Christian" sects or cults? Wasn't the gate supposed to be narrow? Just because the Charismatic Christian movement might be growing doesn't mean the thing you suggest it means, maybe it means most of them are on the wide path, excepting what is cool or popular at the moment.