Yes, I had posted it, I'll try posting it again soon and see if it works better this time.
Oh, okay! That makes sense, thank you for explaining this.
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I have heard that this story has been going on for some time (Albert Einstein spoke it from what most sources say) although from other sources it has not been accredited to any certain person, but even so I still have found it very interesting and I am only posting it because I find it interesting.
"A University professor at a well known institution of higher learning challenged his students with this question.
Did God create everything that exists?
A student bravely replied, "...Yes he did!" "God created everything?" The professor asked. "Yes sir, he certainly did," the student replied. The professor answered, "If God created everything; then God created evil. And, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then we can assume God is evil."
The student became quiet and did not answer the professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth. ---
Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course", replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?" "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question. The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Everybody and every object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have too little heat. The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?" The professor responded, "Of course it does". The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."
Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?" Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. "These manifestations are nothing else but evil."
To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love, that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light." "
I have noticed that often evil is depicted as darkness in the scriptures, and God as Light. Anything relating to what is true and right in scriptures is attributed to being Light, whereas anything wrong and evil is shown to be darkness.
It says in scriptures "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." ~John 3:19
I think that darkness in the sense of sin is an absence of God's Light, if God ever ceased caring for man, we would indeed cease living, because God is the Creator of life, and He is the one who sustains all. "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28) Evil exists in that it exists in those who are wicked, who have forsaken God's Light, and it does not shine in their lives or hearts. Evil is not from God, evil is what happens when we wander from Him out of Light and dwell in darkness. “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. “ Isaiah 8:20
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Here it says He creates all things, everything is in His power. Isaiah 45:7
Now I would also like to say, everything that God does is Just and Right, but we as humans are only deserving of punishment for our sins and wrongdoings. To think that we have rights, when we have all fallen short of God's Light and Holiness, is in a way to place ourselves above our Creator, since He is pure, and we sinful without Him. We would not be able to see at all but blindly dwell in darkness if God did not shed His Mercy and Light into our lives and draw us unto Himself. God is perfectly Just in destroying what is not of His Light, this is not evil as in sin is, this is Justice. We were created to glorify our Creator, and anyone who has turned away from Light is not in the Light. Anyone who has ever been selfish or sinned in any way, anything without the Light of Life in their hearts is deserving of punishment. Punishment is not evil in the sense that sin is, nor is it wrong, it is only what is Just and Right, what one who has rejected the True Light is deserving of. Sinners are only deserving of evil befalling them and to stumble in darkness. God can and does allow this darkness and evil to befall sinners; not because He does wrong, but because He is indeed Just, Holy and Pure.
I know this post is long, so thank you to anyone who takes the time to read through it. For some reason my computer hasn't been wanting to post this each time I try, and so hopefully it works.
"A University professor at a well known institution of higher learning challenged his students with this question.
Did God create everything that exists?
A student bravely replied, "...Yes he did!" "God created everything?" The professor asked. "Yes sir, he certainly did," the student replied. The professor answered, "If God created everything; then God created evil. And, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then we can assume God is evil."
The student became quiet and did not answer the professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth. ---
Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course", replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?" "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question. The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Everybody and every object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have too little heat. The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?" The professor responded, "Of course it does". The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."
Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?" Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. "These manifestations are nothing else but evil."
To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love, that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light." "
I have noticed that often evil is depicted as darkness in the scriptures, and God as Light. Anything relating to what is true and right in scriptures is attributed to being Light, whereas anything wrong and evil is shown to be darkness.
It says in scriptures "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." ~John 3:19
I think that darkness in the sense of sin is an absence of God's Light, if God ever ceased caring for man, we would indeed cease living, because God is the Creator of life, and He is the one who sustains all. "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28) Evil exists in that it exists in those who are wicked, who have forsaken God's Light, and it does not shine in their lives or hearts. Evil is not from God, evil is what happens when we wander from Him out of Light and dwell in darkness. “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. “ Isaiah 8:20
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Here it says He creates all things, everything is in His power. Isaiah 45:7
Now I would also like to say, everything that God does is Just and Right, but we as humans are only deserving of punishment for our sins and wrongdoings. To think that we have rights, when we have all fallen short of God's Light and Holiness, is in a way to place ourselves above our Creator, since He is pure, and we sinful without Him. We would not be able to see at all but blindly dwell in darkness if God did not shed His Mercy and Light into our lives and draw us unto Himself. God is perfectly Just in destroying what is not of His Light, this is not evil as in sin is, this is Justice. We were created to glorify our Creator, and anyone who has turned away from Light is not in the Light. Anyone who has ever been selfish or sinned in any way, anything without the Light of Life in their hearts is deserving of punishment. Punishment is not evil in the sense that sin is, nor is it wrong, it is only what is Just and Right, what one who has rejected the True Light is deserving of. Sinners are only deserving of evil befalling them and to stumble in darkness. God can and does allow this darkness and evil to befall sinners; not because He does wrong, but because He is indeed Just, Holy and Pure.
I know this post is long, so thank you to anyone who takes the time to read through it. For some reason my computer hasn't been wanting to post this each time I try, and so hopefully it works.
I don't particularly like that argumentI have heard that this story has been going on for some time (Albert Einstein spoke it from what most sources say) although from other sources it has not been accredited to any certain person, but even so I still have found it very interesting and I am only posting it because I find it interesting.
"A University professor at a well known institution of higher learning challenged his students with this question.
Did God create everything that exists?
A student bravely replied, "...Yes he did!" "God created everything?" The professor asked. "Yes sir, he certainly did," the student replied. The professor answered, "If God created everything; then God created evil. And, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then we can assume God is evil."
The student became quiet and did not answer the professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth. ---
Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course", replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?" "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question. The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Everybody and every object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have too little heat. The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?" The professor responded, "Of course it does". The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."
Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?" Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. "These manifestations are nothing else but evil."
To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love, that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light." "
I have noticed that often evil is depicted as darkness in the scriptures, and God as Light. Anything relating to what is true and right in scriptures is attributed to being Light, whereas anything wrong and evil is shown to be darkness.
It says in scriptures "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." ~John 3:19
I think that darkness in the sense of sin is an absence of God's Light, if God ever ceased caring for man, we would indeed cease living, because God is the Creator of life, and He is the one who sustains all. "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28) Evil exists in that it exists in those who are wicked, who have forsaken God's Light, and it does not shine in their lives or hearts. Evil is not from God, evil is what happens when we wander from Him out of Light and dwell in darkness. “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. “ Isaiah 8:20
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Here it says He creates all things, everything is in His power. Isaiah 45:7
Now I would also like to say, everything that God does is Just and Right, but we as humans are only deserving of punishment for our sins and wrongdoings. To think that we have rights, when we have all fallen short of God's Light and Holiness, is in a way to place ourselves above our Creator, since He is pure, and we sinful without Him. We would not be able to see at all but blindly dwell in darkness if God did not shed His Mercy and Light into our lives and draw us unto Himself. God is perfectly Just in destroying what is not of His Light, this is not evil as in sin is, this is Justice. We were created to glorify our Creator, and anyone who has turned away from Light is not in the Light. Anyone who has ever been selfish or sinned in any way, anything without the Light of Life in their hearts is deserving of punishment. Punishment is not evil in the sense that sin is, nor is it wrong, it is only what is Just and Right, what one who has rejected the True Light is deserving of. Sinners are only deserving of evil befalling them and to stumble in darkness. God can and does allow this darkness and evil to befall sinners; not because He does wrong, but because He is indeed Just, Holy and Pure.
I know this post is long, so thank you to anyone who takes the time to read through it. For some reason my computer hasn't been wanting to post this each time I try, and so hopefully it works.
your basic principle is communistic. secondly why do you think those people are starving or homeless other than because there are evil people who make sure they don't have something. You're goal is the eradication of evil which will not happen until the end of this eon
cause it's just arguing about word definitions. Instead of going back and seeing that the original premise was flawed to start with.In what way do you dislike it? I am just curious to know.
H
HollyLoree
Guest
I'm sorry, but these verses don't say that nothing existed but God and Jesus in the beginning. I realize you'll think this as heresy, but I see this as an example of drawing conclusions about things we haven't got enough information about yet. We don't really know what "the beginning" meant when John spoke of this, and again, the verse does not say evil did not exist at that time. I personally think Christ was speaking of our universes beginning, this earth's beginning, mankind's beginning, before and during the creation of this world, that the Father and the Son were here "in the beginning". In other words, "The Word" (Christ) was here in the beginning, and the Word was God. But again, that doesn't say nothing else existed.
It also doesn't say evil began in Satan, that it didn't exist before Satan came along. It says wickedness was found in Satan. Big difference. It would have said ''evil originated in Satan'', if it had.
Also, evil is not a thing. Evil is corruption of a thing. Evil is that which is corrupt, that which corrupts. It is an action, or non action, not a thing to be created.
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T
Tintin
Guest
It is called paradigm shifting.
It relays what we have been saying, but from another angle.
Oh, okay!
Would you mind going into a bit more detail concerning your thoughts on it? I certainly do not mean to take away any of your time, although now I'm wondering what exactly you are thinking. I am not very good at reading people's minds across the internet, although I certainly wish I was!
H
HollyLoree
Guest
OK, then where was evil before it was found? If evil was not yet found, where was it?
Do you suppose that it was like latent (or, potential) energy?
God did not create evil. God is all good, as is all his creation. Good is the very essence of being. Evil is the PRIVATION of good, which occurs when we or the angels turn away from God of our own free will (see the fall of Lucifer/Satan/"that serpent called the Devil").
Read what the Church Fathers had to say about the existence of evil.
St. Augustine's idea of goodness and evil corresponded to the notion of being. To Augustine all things which have being are more or less good (depending upon their level of corruption). God as the ground of being was perfectly good, along with everything he brought into being. This goodness, who's agent is God, is a property that existed in all created things in varying degrees. Evil is the privation of that good. God created all things good. The diminution of the property of goodness is what is called evil. Good has substantial being; evil does not. Evil is like a moral hole, a void or nothingness which results when goodness is removed. Just as a shadow is no more than a "hole" in light, evil likewise is a hole in goodness. Since all things were made with goodness, evil then is the privation of goodness: As Augustine said; "All which is corrupted is deprived of good."
PRIDE is the original sin. From the fall of the angels to the fall of man...
Pride of Lucifer.. the first fall..
Isaiah 14;
'How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God;'
Pride, the true original sin, was Lucifer's downfall. Exalting himself even above the Most High.
Pride of man..
Ezekial 28 illustrates the effect of pride in humans;
'Because your heart is proud, and you have said, “I am a god";..yet you are but a mortal, and no god, though you compare your mind with the mind of a god...
Augustine says of the origin of evil; "And what is the origin of our evil will but pride? For "pride is the beginning of sin". And what is pride but the craving for undue exaltation?” Again recalling the commonality between the rebellions and subsequent falls of the angels and man, Augustine describes the cause of pride, that turning away from God and exaltation of the self; “And this is undue exaltation, when the soul abandons Him to whom it ought to cleave as its end, and becomes a kind of end to itself. This happens when it becomes its own satisfaction.” Therefore it is pride which led to this apostasy,, and by our rejection of the greatest immutable good then we seek our own self satisfaction through mutable goods, freely serving ourselves and rejecting God’s will, leading to the privation of good in God’s created beings.
St. Thomas Aquinas says in his Summa Theologica; “Apostasy from God is stated to be the beginning of pride, in so far as it denotes a turning away from God, because from the fact that man wishes not to be subject to God, it follows that he desires inordinately his own excellence in temporal things.”
So it is the turning away from God which leads to evil, pride, the privation of good. Evil is not of God. It is not a created thing. It is an absence of it. A vacuum. The darkness which exists when God/good/being is to any degree absent, when we or the angels turn away from God.
Read what the Church Fathers had to say about the existence of evil.
St. Augustine's idea of goodness and evil corresponded to the notion of being. To Augustine all things which have being are more or less good (depending upon their level of corruption). God as the ground of being was perfectly good, along with everything he brought into being. This goodness, who's agent is God, is a property that existed in all created things in varying degrees. Evil is the privation of that good. God created all things good. The diminution of the property of goodness is what is called evil. Good has substantial being; evil does not. Evil is like a moral hole, a void or nothingness which results when goodness is removed. Just as a shadow is no more than a "hole" in light, evil likewise is a hole in goodness. Since all things were made with goodness, evil then is the privation of goodness: As Augustine said; "All which is corrupted is deprived of good."
PRIDE is the original sin. From the fall of the angels to the fall of man...
Pride of Lucifer.. the first fall..
Isaiah 14;
'How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God;'
Pride, the true original sin, was Lucifer's downfall. Exalting himself even above the Most High.
Pride of man..
Ezekial 28 illustrates the effect of pride in humans;
'Because your heart is proud, and you have said, “I am a god";..yet you are but a mortal, and no god, though you compare your mind with the mind of a god...
Augustine says of the origin of evil; "And what is the origin of our evil will but pride? For "pride is the beginning of sin". And what is pride but the craving for undue exaltation?” Again recalling the commonality between the rebellions and subsequent falls of the angels and man, Augustine describes the cause of pride, that turning away from God and exaltation of the self; “And this is undue exaltation, when the soul abandons Him to whom it ought to cleave as its end, and becomes a kind of end to itself. This happens when it becomes its own satisfaction.” Therefore it is pride which led to this apostasy,, and by our rejection of the greatest immutable good then we seek our own self satisfaction through mutable goods, freely serving ourselves and rejecting God’s will, leading to the privation of good in God’s created beings.
St. Thomas Aquinas says in his Summa Theologica; “Apostasy from God is stated to be the beginning of pride, in so far as it denotes a turning away from God, because from the fact that man wishes not to be subject to God, it follows that he desires inordinately his own excellence in temporal things.”
So it is the turning away from God which leads to evil, pride, the privation of good. Evil is not of God. It is not a created thing. It is an absence of it. A vacuum. The darkness which exists when God/good/being is to any degree absent, when we or the angels turn away from God.
Oh, okay!
Would you mind going into a bit more detail concerning your thoughts on it? I certainly do not mean to take away any of your time, although now I'm wondering what exactly you are thinking. I am not very good at reading people's minds across the internet, although I certainly wish I was!
The fact that the story you related contains a different paradigm of viewing the same matter is exactly why I see it as so valuable. I am going to use OQA = Original Question Asked
Not everyone is able to shift perspectives easily in themselves, which is what paradigm shifting means. But for that very reason, we cannot be certain that the person with the OQA can relate to our own perspective or paradigm of the subject. Thus the more perspectives or paradigms we have that relate different angles from which to view the same truth, the more likely we are to have one among them that the person with the OQA, can understand.
Another very accurate paradigm of the same valuable truth.
Thank you so very much for that contribution.
T
Tintin
Guest
You have a sneaky smile.
I do love your signature quote.
And I 100% agree that, Sin is nothing more than trying to live life apart from the Only True God who is Life.
I signal that end.
Again I live in Chicago, Illinois. When I attend our state's open meeting, I will begin to announce just that. We CAN eradicate ALL evil. God will not put me to shame.
God did not create evil, but the first people tempted by Satan have made the hearts of the burden of sin and have fallen from heaven. Their thoughts become wicked and their lives become sinful. The Bible says that people die spiritually but not physically. Seeing the defeat of original sin. Jesus was innocent and had no sins, but He became one of us - you and your death conquer sin. Jesus redeemed us all. We should live as Christians according to the teachings and legacy of Christ. I apologize for my bad english. 