Is baptism Essential for salvation?

Cee · May 27, 2013

For me this issue is simple, we are told to be baptized as a public sign of our confession of faith. Therefore we should be baptized. The real issue I think is a minimum philosophy rather than a maximum one. Do I need to? That alone projects the feeling that you're being forced and I think it's far better to do it with a cheerful heart. This is what only Jesus can change in us and has done so. Our heart.

Ezekiel 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

The next step then is a public sign of us dying with Christ and being reborn with Him. Baptism. What an honor for us to be able to publicly be able to witness for the one who publicly died for us.

C.

livingepistle · May 27, 2013

homwardbound said:

By belief
1 Corinthians 1:21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1 Corinthians 3:5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
Galatians 2:16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

There are many a scripture tha point to Faith, Belief in god and what God has done not man.
But man is just so desiring to do what man wants to do and make a muck out of things taking away the power of God.
Most of the people today are taught a half-sham Gospel Christ died for you, now go out and work!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ludicrous the full Gospel is the including of the resurrection
Just read 1 Cor 15. Very clear we are to die to self so we can be alive today here and now by the resurrection back at the cross. And all this is by beleif in God that he has done it all for anyone that beleives
Romans 3:22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3:26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 4:3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

If you want to believe that there are no works then so be it. You have been in the Lord long enough to be off milk. So, God bless you. Shalom

homwardbound · May 28, 2013

jinx said:

Butwe do love each other do we not Sister, we both see as we see and I am accepted by God, nad it has never been for me by what I do or not do, the same is for you and all. I have never said not to be water Babtized I have only stated the diffearance of water and Spirit Babtism. All in Love Sister from God to you and me for all that believe that Jesus is the Messiah unto all mankind
Romans 5:8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

homwardbound · May 28, 2013

jinx said:

Yes and so are all the Ten and let alone 314 others Yes lets just look at the Ten
Take Ten Apples and put them in your tub filled with water and try to hold all Ten Apples under the water at the same time using your two hands?
Impossible sister yes? That is how it is with the Law man can't fulfill it perfectly, and is why Christ came and fulfilled it for you to live his life through you by the resurrection at the cross three days laterafter the proof of his death where we are todaynot unuder the Law of Moses and as gentiles never were, only the first Chosen were.
So if you are going to follow the Law as you just quoted that you, i and all others must do, you put yourself and others unfder the curse of the Law. The law itself is just holy,pperferct and correct but anytime it flows through flesh, flesh being weak and can't and won't go the Law not in it's entirety, one dies every time. This is why you are kept in under the curse read Romans 7, everytime "I" wish to do "I" find myself doing evil. You yourself, and anyone still of the flesh efforts wanting to serve God are caught up in this and need the new life already provided for you, me and anyone else that will come to terms and agree with God to doe to themselves then they will see the new life in the Spirit of God

I wish as Paul wished to the Corinthians to show you, the perfection found in Christ and for you to recieve this not beiing carnal any longer, found in 1 cor. sister. I know water Babtism is no more that a good conscious towards God for Christ came to Babtize in the Holy Ghost and with fire, so I guess youy might want to ask from God wahtthis entails personally between God and you.
Thanks Sister for all yuor posts

homwardbound · May 28, 2013

livingepistle said:

Yes long enough to see it is God's works not mine that god does through me otherwise I would have reason to boast as Paul so well explained in Phil 3, yet anyway it is all God and none of me that is the maturity of God, the perfection of God getting allthe glory. I am and all that are full grown unuderstand that we are nothing more than a vessel to be used by god whenever God sees fit to do so
Just like a water glass is available for you to use whenever you decide to use it.
God just love us all this much, when you see this you might become a responder to God in place of being an initiator to God and others.
We are the creation God is the creator
Therefore we are the responders and God is the initiator unto us by responding unto good works by God and for God
praying you see this

homwardbound · May 28, 2013

livingepistle said:

Maybe I have meat that you do not know of yet as Christ said to his disciples as they tried to get him to eat food?

Cee · May 28, 2013

I'd like to share something the Holy Spirit gave me to break me out of legalism, "Focus on Him not on Sin". Whatever you behold you will become more like. I focus on love and in love there is no sin. I believe if we love 100% the law would not be necessary. The laws purpose was to take us to Christ. He is the fulfillment of the law's purpose. For us to know and show love, who is our Father.

C.

DiscipleDave · May 28, 2013

Matthew 3: 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

This verse and many others like it, PLAINLY teaches there is a water baptism, and there is a Holy Ghost Baptism.
Water Baptism is something all Christians should do to fulfill all righteousness.
Holy Ghost Baptism is something that is absolutely REQUIRED for one to be Saved, that means their heart has changed, they are no longer the same person they were before. It is a way of life change. From living in sin, to abiding in Christ, from hating one another, to loving one another, from selfishness, to charity to others.
Anyone can get water baptized and claim they are Saved.
But a person who is Holy Ghost Baptized is Saved.

^i^

jinx · May 28, 2013

Well I still believe that if GOD tells us to do something or not do something, to go against HIS will is sin and that sin can keep us from heaven. I don't believe in the once saved always saved dogma.
I believe that if a person loves GOD that GOD will lead them in the right path to begin with and we shouldn't want to stray, but if it happens, GOD is merciful and takes us back after we have repented of straying.

homwardbound · May 29, 2013

jinx said:

You go girl, you are on the right path in seeking truth and God will reveal truth to you as you continue to grow in his miraculous grace that you never want to take advantage of and I thank you for you to believe in the HolyGhost leading to each of us to be set free being in Christ as christ is free fopr he overcame this world for us
[h=3]John 16:33[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]33 [/SUP]“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

notuptome · May 29, 2013

jinx said:

I do not find fault with doing what God tells us to do. Water baptism is the first step in obedience on the path of our discipleship. I do find fault in making water baptism essential to salvation. That is not biblical and demeans the blood of Christ.
Heb 7:24 able to save to the uttermost
Heb 9:12 having obtained eternal redemption for us
Heb 10:29 sorer punishment.
God does forgive when we fail but after we are saved we cannot come under condemnation a second time. 1 John 1:8-2:2

For the cause of Christ
Roger

jinx · May 29, 2013

acts 2:38 says it is necessary.

notuptome · May 29, 2013

jinx said:

Typical.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

jinx · May 29, 2013

notuptome said:

Scriptural.

In HIS service,
Jinx

notuptome · May 29, 2013

jinx said:

You simply will not receive any sound exegesis of this passage of scripture. You have decided that no matter what you are going to make the blood of Christ inadequate to fully atone for sin. Goes hand in hand with your construct that one who is saved, apparently with the essential water baptism, is able to become lost again. I am tempted to cite Prov 26:4 but Eccl 3:7 a time to be silent will be exercised on my part.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

jinx · May 29, 2013

All I'm doing is quoting scripture,
If GOD wants us to follow scripture then we should do it.
If it is a SIN to disobey HIS scripture then I don't want to sin.
If SIN keeps me from a heavenly home then I'm going to do what ever it is required of me to obtain that home.

Sure I have GOD's grace and by faith I believe that HIS blood shed for me on the cross was for my sin, but I'm not going to go on belief alone!!!!
devils believe GOD and yet they wont obtain this grace or heaven.

Obedience is what GOD requires of us.

Acts 2:38 says REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED and you shall receive the gift of the HOLY HOST.
It doesn't say believe only.
we have to hold up our end of the deal also.
we live in the new covenant.
That means new terms.
I don't get it why people think that all you have to do is believe when scripture after scripture says
we must repent,
we must be baptized,
we must follow holiness with all men,
we must grow in love.....
all these things GOD requires us to do and yes it is a lot easier to do these things when we are filled with HIS SPIRIT guiding us,
but they still must be DONE!!!...

Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

it's not called a works salvation!!!!

it is called obedience!!!!

SarahM777 · May 30, 2013

jinx said:

I think what is being left out on this is the fact that obedience is the evidence of a changed heart and mind. If one doesn't obey how can one say they believe? James is VERY clear on this Faith without works is DEAD. But it is NOT the works themselves that save,it is the faith in Jesus Christ,that begets those works that saves. IT IS FAITH IN ACTION. Faith without action is useless.

notuptome · May 30, 2013

jinx said:

You did say earlier that the devils do that as well right?

Right as long as we rightly divide the scriptures

The blood of Christ cleanses us from all our sin. There is nothing you can do to obtain heaven. Christ has done it all.

Why not? It's all you can do. Don't give lip service to the gospel. Believe it completely.

They cannot be redeemed only mankind can be redeemed.

Obedience is what God expects of us. Bid difference. We can add nothing to what Christ has done for our salvation.

It also is not speaking of water baptism. This is Holy Spirit baptism. You have been shown this many times. You are not ignorant of the original language and how it is translated. There are many supporting scriptures that demonstrate this beyond doubt. that dog won't hunt.

What could you possibly do? God told the Jews that He did not desire sacrifice and offerings, the blood of bulls and goats but a contrite heart and a broken spirit. You hold up your end of the deal by getting on your face and admitting just how unworthy we are in His presence.

In context of Acts 2:28 that is what repent means. Stop going on in traditional Judaism and believe on Christ. Peter had just preached a message to those present to make that clear.

Not water baptism. Certainly we ought to receive water baptism but it does not make us any more saved than we were before we received it.

If we are saved we will evidence this in our conduct. Not required to obtain salvation.

Again this flows out from believers but it is not required to be saved

Not to be saved they don't. All of these things do testify that we have received what we profess to have received but they are after the fact and not a condition of salvation. Christ finished all that was required by God we can add nothing to His finished work.

Right when you place this at the judgment seat of Christ. Wrong when you place it at the great white throne judgment. New babes in Christ will not know as much good as those who are mature in the faith.

It absolutely is when you make salvation contingent upon your works. Getting salvation or keeping salvation is not dependent upon us but upon Christ.
Obedience is created in those who are in Christ. Eph 2:10 says that we are His workmanship created unto good works. But it is Him working through us not us doing to impress Him.
Closing with Gal 2:20 Paul says by pen of inspiration I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live yet not I but Christ liveth in me and the life I live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God Who loved me and gave Himself for me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome · May 30, 2013

SarahM777 said:

James is not teaching that works have anything to do with obtaining or keeping salvation. He is describing those who give only lip service to the gospel. Living faith as opposed to dead faith produces works or if you prefer fruit of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. Action for the sake of action is futile. Everything rests on Christ as the only foundation of our faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

homwardbound · May 30, 2013

By Faith we are saved then the works that you all are speaking of are not ours they are God's through us the believers

Romans 3:21[ God’s Righteousness Through Faith ] But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

Anyone can try to be as righteous as they want by doing wahtever but this is not how righteousness comes because no one is righteous in and oif themselves ever before salvation through Christ came an after Salvation is here today by the cross and the cross only death and resurrection, the resurrection is where one gets Babtist by the operation of God as God has alread done this to christ raised in the spirit died in the flesh

Romans 3:22even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference

Romans 3:25whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Romans 3:26to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Romans 3:27[ Boasting Excluded ] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith
Romans 3:28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Romans 4:1[ Abraham Justified by Faith ] What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
Romans 4:5[ David Celebrates the Same Truth ] But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness
Romans 4:9[ Abraham Justified Before Circumcision ] Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.
Romans 4:11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,
Romans 4:13[ The Promise Granted Through Faith ] For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

So if you unjderstand James and what he says about works is Faith in God produces God works through God's vessel. not the other way around for works never has nor ever will produce Faith in God

James 2:18But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

[h=3]James 2:20-26[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Did the works come before Faith or after and was any of the works done of any of these believers Saints by and of theri own thoughts of we must do or was it a response to God's wonderful amaing Mercy Love that god does have for all?
It has been by Faith from day one and Mercy from God from day one. We are in the new Covenant delivered from the bondage of the Law that kills us every time we try to obey it. Re-read Paul as he wrote in romans 7 the differance between Law and grace.
It is by God's grace that we have been saved idf we really do believe period, It is all about God and none of our own works good or bad. All Glory goes to God period, take any of that away by doing any self works we pur ourselves back under law where no flesh and blood is capable of being perfect in.
We are such a fooled society in mixing Law and grace. And it does not matter which law the Old New, societal Law. Law is Law and it is good perfefct true and correct. It is there for the Law breaker. Not for those that are saved, that know God has by his cross in the resurrection has by beleif saved them.
The Law any and all Law is no more than a school master
Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[h=3]Romans 10:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Is baptism Essential for salvation?

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