Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[homwardbound]

some people believe that by obeying GOd when HE said in acts 2:38 Act 2:38
they believe that by doing this in order to "receive the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT" that it is called the "works salvation". doing something for GOD to obtain salvation, when really it is only obedience.

Not the way I see it and I do not know anywhere in any post I ever said this that the gift of the Holy Ghost ois a works program because if it were then the Holy Ghost that fell on the people at Pentecost would not have been free just like Abraham
Romans 3:28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Romans 4:1[ Abraham Justified by Faith ] What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
[h=3]Romans 4:1-3[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Abraham Justified by Faith[/h]4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

Before Law any Law was put in place my Sister
The covenant that still stands to this day befroe law was ever put in place 430 years later to show the first chosen their inability to be 100% righteous befoire God by attempting to do law on their own accord.
That was the purpose of all law.
Today by the cross being after it we are freed from all Law even though Law is just Holy, perfect Good and correct to follow. But just as Paul says so well in romans Chapter 1-5 and chapters 6-8 that when one is under Law they are under a curse and can't fulfill it. trhat we need to consider ourselves dead with Christ bcak at the cross and thus ask God then to brings here and now back to new life as God already did this for Christ at the resurrection where the power of the cross is at, and by this new loife and walkiing in it one is freed from sin period by God and this is not for one to glory in as if that pne or I have quit sin. No rather thsat God ahs done it for us, and this can only be if one stays walkinig in the Spirit. So how does one do that?
By dieiing daily to self and reckoning themselves dead daily to sin as romans 6:11 states.

 

[homwardbound]

what? i dont know what youre saying. i dont think God is like a vending machine. i cant wait to be baptized. the holy spirit wants me to.
i'm going to. im looking forward to it. and jesus said to do it so i know he will be there with me

if you think thats a bad thing what ever.

Broither you have the right motive and therefore please do, I applaud it. one day God willing you might see this and only if god wuilling God ahs God's purpose for each of us and is differant for each as God sees fit
Love you man

 

[homwardbound]

well, i do know that faith is what saves. Gods grace saves us through faith in his message. like abraham. if we believe his message we will do what he said. getting baptized isnt hard. i cant wait. im excited for it.

all you have to do is believe. its true.
Jesus said things that are to be believed.
if he said go and do then i'm going to try hard to go and do.

is that the works program? lol

No my Brother your complete intention is to serve the Living God and so this a great thing for you, I am over elated so is God who is teaching you all things and will seperate any errors that you ever come across and show them to you as you growin God's miraculous grace.
You see God knows this about you that you only want what God wants for you

"Comfort Me by letting Me know that you would see Me just to dwell in My Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for Me. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."

 

[homwardbound]

yup. that is what they consider works program. obedience is work...LOL

without obedience we sin, if we live in sin by not obeying then we lose out with GOD.

The differance is how does obedience come by Faith or by works? that is waht I am tallking about and have been the whole time. Now each one of us knows the answer in and of ourselves what produces what and are free to decide whether obedience follows Faith in God's work completed at the cross?
Or trying to be be obedient prodces Faith?
Hebrews 11

 

[jinx]

obedience is work. how can you just obey by no action?

you have faith, then you obey GOD's word...that takes action.

 

[homwardbound]

oh i think i get it.
so thats where all the talk about flesh and spirit and stuff fixes that problem.
if youre all spirit, your flesh is a goner anyways so you never sin.
lke that?

correction please, god is the one that never sins and we are to learn to walk by the Spirit of God by Faith in God through the resurrected Christ.
[h=3]1 John 2[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Okay walking in the Spirit of Christ by Faith in him that it is finished as he yelled out it is in John 19:30 one, you me and all others that when in the Spirit of God by belief no doubt, there never is any sin ever possible and is why we are calle d to be born again in the Spirit of God

[h=3]Galatians 5:16-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 

[Abiding]

obedience is work. how can you just obey by no action?

you have faith, then you obey GOD's word...that takes action.

here abiding gave me a quarter
to give these to you. He said
they were organic.

 

[homwardbound]

he told us to go and make disciples and baptize them and teach them everything he spoke of.
how can people believe unless someone tells them
and how can someone tell them unless they are learned and how can they be learned unless someone keeps his commandments and knows what he said.

By the Holy Ghost of God notice who the Holy Ghost is in you placed in you is and waht the Holy Ghosts Job is?
See waht is posted below and see it is not our Job it it the job of the Holy Ghost to do the the teaching our only Job is to preach the reconclitation and they given by God by christ at the cross. Then the day one believes they are sealed

Ephesians 1:13In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

[h=3]John 16[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

16 “These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. [SUP]2 [/SUP]They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. [SUP]4 [/SUP]But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them.
And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.
[h=3]The Work of the Holy Spirit[/h][SUP]5 [/SUP]“But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ [SUP]6 [/SUP]But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [SUP]9 [/SUP]of sin, because they do not believe in Me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; [SUP]11 [/SUP]of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. [SUP]13 [/SUP]However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

 

[Cee]

Hi Silverdollar

I love this. Especially this: "i cant wait to be baptized. the holy spirit wants me to. i'm going to. im looking forward to it. and jesus said to do it so i know he will be there with me"

Keep this zeal for the Lord and my friend you will transform people around you by His love. They will want to know more about what you have. Why you have peace, joy, and love. Sure at first they will be skeptical, but in time they will want to know more. It has happened to me and now it's quite common. So, I know what I speak is true and if you believe it will be true for you as well.

What you have said is exactly the message I have been trying to share. It's not a MUST. It's I WANT TO. I get to. If we can get away from all these musts then we can see what kind of shape our heart is in and then that's when the fun starts because He transforms the heart.

OSAS is once saved always saved. We don't surprise God with our past, present, and future sin. He took us lock, stock, and barrel. Jesus became sin so that heaven might come in to you You know the Holy Spirit, He resides there because of the Son's sacrifice for you.

The flesh as we call it. Is the old man. It's the you before you died with Christ. Or as some say, the "natural desires". This is quite a rabbit hole we can jump into together, but I prefer to keep our eyes on Jesus. His love for us and His love through us. My goal is to not to kill the flesh, but to live fully to God.

C.

what? i dont know what youre saying. i dont think God is like a vending machine. i cant wait to be baptized. the holy spirit wants me to.
i'm going to. im looking forward to it. and jesus said to do it so i know he will be there with me

if you think thats a bad thing what ever.

 

[notuptome]

yup. that is what they consider works program. obedience is work...LOL

without obedience we sin, if we live in sin by not obeying then we lose out with GOD.

Eph 2:10 says that we are created in Christ to do good works. Works or obedience as you view it is the evidence of salvation not the mechanism by which we are saved or even kept saved. Grace saves completely with nothing added. Complete salvation produces evidence of itself. Fruit or works or just a broken heart and contrite spirit. How many labor for Christ that you cannot see? How many are obedient that cannot participate in any visible form of obedience? Care must be used in how we judge one another. Only the Lord can see the heart of man and know it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[HoldingOn2013]

I think Cee summed it up pretty good there. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

End of thread..

 

[homwardbound]

yeah they believe that once they are saved they have no sin, do no sin...(we aint truly saved until we have endured till the end, right now we are only born again in Christ)

i have yet to hear one mystic answer me this one question....... if you offend GOD or someone else do you repent for it?

normally i get the answer that they don't sin because they have GOD in them, but they forget they still have this earthly body attached to them and they aint living in no glorified body yet. That human nature to sin is still a very big part of their lives. BUT with GOD's SPIRIT in them they can overcome sin's temptations and if they don't they do have an advocate.

Oh my sister
If i offend God first off I have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ who already took all sin away att he cross, and there is nowhere in the New Testament after the cross Ther death of christ anywhere that we are told by scripture to ask form god more forgiveness aftee we have recived the forgiveness that has been provided for us all att he the cross. Not apostle ever said this forgiveness from God has to be asked forover and over again. Nowhere in scripture after the cross the death is there any one saying after you beleive to ask for more forgiveness from God. Please find it anywhere and 1John1:9 does not work over and over again because once you believe that Christ came in the flesh and that we were born in and of flesh that is sinful we agree with this then we recieve the forgiveness from God back at the cross.
Secondly if I do sin against you or anyone else I immediately seek forgiveness form that person(s) or whatevcer the case
Tell me Sister since you have come to Christ have you gone to everyone that you have harmed as much as possible and apologized?
Here is the clencher my Sister what about those that do not even know that you harmed them behind their back.
I tell you those that have seen the depth of their forgiveness and know they OSAS as I am have done this.
I am not trying to tout me as being all righteous and all I am saying in response to God as hard as it is to go to your brother and tell him back when you were a kid and and someone broke into his house and stole from his son's piggy bank that he really had no idea who it was andlook at him square in the face and confess that is what confession is all about bringing truth of our self's to light and be set free and my brother forgave as I was ready to pay whatever pentance he would give me to do.
now I will never forget the reaction after he did not hold this against me. He said that must have truly set you free. And I responded WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now I do not know if you have any clue to this ourselve your walk Sister is not mine it is yours. I just know their is a big diffearance in what I now to be OSAS and waht you think it is OSAS that is not the same
Love you deeply as all that come here whether they believe or not. It is a personal relationship between God and that person God is at work with teaching all of us truth found only in him. Iknow you are of God and not by water Babtism by the power and Spirit of God by the resurrected Christ that truly did do it all for you, before you and I were evere born here on earth.
That is what is so amazing and so therefore in response to this I do not take it for granted as many OSASers have and do
For how will those ever escape, this is how great this salvation is, God ios faithful we are not and once we put our100% trust in God as Christ did then we move and have our beings in Christ by the Holy Ghost leading and us following every step of the way
[h=3]Hebrews 2:3[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,

 

[homwardbound]

God is the mover of our beings as Paul so well stated.it is not I that live anymore, that is where true obedience comes from God
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[Cee]

[h=5]Jinx I did not have you in mind when I wrote this. In fact, this is about someone who came at me on Facebook for standing on the promises of God, but your post did remind me of it. So I am sharing it here.

Jesus called His disciples the "light of the world" and the "salt of the Earth". Say that today and sometimes you'll be called prideful, arrogant, and delusional. Some have been so stuck in this thinking that we are nothing more than sinners, that they attack those who believe that they just may have been turned into a saint.

John called his readers, "children of light" and "walk as such". But, if you believe you could possibly have been transformed as a "child of light". Well, you're just delusional, everybody still sins! I must ask what is this preoccupation with telling everyone they are still a sinner? It is like crabs holding each other in the bucket, when one tries to climb out, another grabs them and brings them back down.

It's okay to see yourself as a child of light, it's okay to see yourself as having His Mind, His Spirit, and a soft heart. It is okay! You are HOLY! You are a TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD! You're an HEIR of God! It's called Good News for a reason. Because it's GOOD NEWS about a GOOD GOD and you are DEAD TO SIN.

So, I say let's stand on the reality that we are children of light, people around us are children of light, and let's get on a hill and SHINE! Be blessed and be a blessing.[/h]

 

[jinx]

well I'm not going through life when I mess up or sin and not say sorry or repent of that sin. I don't do that physically and I won't do that spiritually.
I'm born again, but I still have to endure till the end.

 

[Cee]

I believe you're born again so you will endure till the end. Repentance is metanoia it is the greek word for renewing your mind. The closest word we have is metamorphisis. Think caterpillar to butterfly, what a beautiful metamorphisis that is! Much akin from sinner to saint, enemy to child, servant to son. Repentance is to see yourself as God sees you and seeing Him as He is... from glory to glory being transformed.

I am merely trying to share what the Bible says you are and from that position, you will not be "working", you will be "abiding". Abiding in what? His finished work. His Grace and from that place we can expect "fruitfulness".

One son stayed with the Father, the other sold his inheritance. But the one son who stayed with his Father was jealous when the other son returned, why? Because it was work to Him.

I believe it should be a joy, honor, privilege, and an amazing experience to know Love, Himself. How is this possible? Because you have been transformed. (Repentance is seeing yourself as this transformation, the new man, no longer the old, saint no longer sinner, does this mean we don't ask forgiveness? No. It means we want to, not have to.)

C.

well I'm not going through life when I mess up or sin and not say sorry or repent of that sin. I don't do that physically and I won't do that spiritually.
I'm born again, but I still have to endure till the end.

 

[jinx]

obedience.

I guess I just can't explain what that is to anyone.

tired of trying to explain what it is and what it means to me.

 

[sonjohn]

" Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."
Hang in there jinx. Remember, the ones replying are not the only ones reading. Or re-thinking

 

[sonjohn]

Well... This is certainly an interesting thread to say the least. As can be seen, this topic seems to be important to a lot of people. Looking through the other threads, I notice not many of them come very close to the activity this one has shown. The thing is, it has been my experience when this topic is raised, most-I say most, come away from a discussion like this one pretty much believing the same as they did before. There is always about the same that believe the one way, or the other. Not much in the way of biblical proof for or against the essentiality of baptism seems to matter to most people. One thing I am sure of though; Almost everyone involved in this discussion ( if not all ) believe Jesus Christ, the one of Nazareth, is Lord, and came to this earth to seek and save the lost, and they believe they are recipients of that self-same salvation. The question then, I suppose, must seem to be, who is? I do not doubt the motive of Christ, I most fervently believe He wants every one of us to be with Him in paradise. Can you imagine what it must be like, to live your whole life for the cause of Christ, only to die and find you are not a part of His family? I pose this question to EVERYONE in this thread. Are YOU sure? And if you are, what about the one who opposes you? Do you think he/she is SURE? How is it possible for any of us to be sure? I congratulate Christian85 for posting this thread, because I believe this very point is where the war for salvation for ALL of us is being waged. Have you ever wondered why there is so much contention on this particular point? I have been a Christian for a long time, and this battle has been here the whole time. Here is a question: If we all believe, and love Christ, and I for one believe we all do, and we believe it is Christ's desire that we be one, and I believe we do, then why are we not one here? Why RIGHT HERE? Is it our fault? Are we deficient? I see no dispute over belief, or repentance, or confession. Is it as some claim, that it is of no moment? If so, why so much disparity? Or is it where the enemy of us all has decided to wage his campaign? Who stands to gain the most by us being divided? If this is so, what can we do to defeat his plan? I guess the ultimate question would be, can we win together against the deceiver?

 

[Elizabeth619]

I really cannot understand why baptism is even an argument. We are told to repent and be baptized. Yet some simply refuse to do so, and then condemn others who do. I just don't get it.