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K
After reading this thread. SDA's place their faith in their own actions. the only action one can take is faith in the work of the Cross. We are helpless beings in need of a savior. There is nothing else we can do. Obeying rules is not enough, the Hindus obey rules and Muslims obey rules. Wick's obey rules. Catholics obey rules. Christians accept what God has done for them and not what work I can do. If we truly accept Christ, then are work will be good and produce fruit. Because, our relationship with Him will bring that forth and not of our own doing.
E
Well since you just openly admitted that you're not an expert on the SDA church, what is it you expect to uncover? You argue with people here about their own belief system, as if you're the expert on their doctrine, and then you turn around and say you're not an expert on it, but hey! You're gonna expose their false teachings. Obviously, you don't know what you're talking about but still mean to destroy a denomination. Tons of bright red flags here...
E
What kills me about this kind of thread is that the only reason people hate the 7th Day Adventists so is that they feel threatened by the fact that the 7th day Adventists believe it's important to keep the original sabbath. So isn't this a free country? Worst case scenario, if these people are doing something that's no longer important, they're just misunderstanding something scriptural. So doesn't scriptures say we're supposed to be patient with the weak in faith? (Not that I'm saying I actually believe these people are weak. Just saying...). Seventh Day Adventists obviously are Christians. I've known some and they read the same Bible we do and they accept Jesus as their personal savior, and they believe they are saved through grace alone. And they definitely do not hold Ellen White's writings up with the Bible. Not a one of them would even say the "follow her." Now again, if you disagree with some of their doctrines, whoopdeedoo! I can think of quite a few denominations I don't see eye to eye with on all their doctrines. But I sure don't call them cults or false teachers as a result. This is nothing more than a hate thread obviously made by an extremely judgemental person who judges that which he does not know. You're obviously searching the web for articles that support your belief about these people, and you can always find people posting "against" just about any subject you can think of. Now as these 7th Day Adventists have said on here, they certainly understand that salvation is not earned through works. So what's up with you, Danchance? If people are false Christians, it'll come out in the wash. You're sure proving nothing here accept that you don't know squate about these people yet still want to trash them. Maybe the truth about you is coming out in the wash.
D
I think you have it wrong. No one here that I know of has an issue with the SDA people. I certainly do not have any hate for them. On the contrary, I respect them. I do have some serious issues with their doctrines but I have never mentioned going to church on saturday in any context. I am only discussing the doctrines and beliefs of SDA.
In the very first part of this thread I said "I am no expert on Seventh Day Adventism" and I have never pretended to be. Yes, I am learning about SDA and I am discussing things about it in which I disagree with. I encourage you to join in and discuss this.
In the very first part of this thread I said "I am no expert on Seventh Day Adventism" and I have never pretended to be. Yes, I am learning about SDA and I am discussing things about it in which I disagree with. I encourage you to join in and discuss this.
My question is this.... Forget the man that needs salvation... What does a man do that ARE SAVED? Forget us, all of us, we NEED CHRIST TO SAVE US...
I ask... WHAT DOES A MAN DO THAT GOD HAS SAVED? Does he sin? Does he do evil and good? Who does the sin, the saved man or God in him? Who does the good works, the saved man or God in him?
Forget sin, forget Satan. What does God's GODLY MEN do? Do they do God's will or do they still do satan's?
I ask... WHAT DOES A MAN DO THAT GOD HAS SAVED? Does he sin? Does he do evil and good? Who does the sin, the saved man or God in him? Who does the good works, the saved man or God in him?
Forget sin, forget Satan. What does God's GODLY MEN do? Do they do God's will or do they still do satan's?
D
Keep in mind that there is no shortage of Seventh Day Adventists on CC and they have no issues arguing their doctrine. Yet you did not say a word to them? Are you holding up a double standard? Is it not fair that I discuss their own faith as they have mine? I think it is fair. It was me defending my own beliefs which got me looking into the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Frankly, I find it fascinating and I am sharing what I have learned. I am sorry your feelings have been hurt.
The 7th day is the 7th day, known as 'shabbat' in Hebrew. The pagans called all the days of the week by either names of their 'gods' and/or planets. The fact that they call the 7th day Shabbat 'saturday' after Saturn is irrelevant..., as the 7th day always was and will be the 7th day and they were not able to change that, even though they tried to change the months around...
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus[G2424] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
...in 4:8 the original name is Jesus or Yahshua:
G2424
Iēsous
ee-ay-sooce'
Of Hebrew origin [H3091]; Jesus (that is, Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites: - Jesus.
...its interesting that some translators presented a contextual lie, to suit their own religious bias to make it seem like it was speaking about Joshua; out of context and seemingly irrelevant - however - the verse is clearly speaking about the fact that Jesus did NOT change the Lords day from the 7th day to the pagan 'day of the sun' ie: first day - sunday...; but the pagan pseudo-Christian emperor of rome; Constantine did ie:
Constantine created the earliest Sunday law known to history in AD 321. It says this:
"On the venerable Day of the sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits: because it often happens that another Day is not so suitable for grain sowing or for vine planting: lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.[SUP]"
Following this initial legislation, both emperors and Popes in succeeding centuries added other laws to strengthen Sunday observance. What began as a pagan ordinance ended as a Christian regulation. Close on the heels of the Edict of Constantine followed the Catholic Church Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD):
[/SUP]
[SUP]"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord’s Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ."[/SUP]
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus[G2424] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
...in 4:8 the original name is Jesus or Yahshua:
G2424
Iēsous
ee-ay-sooce'
Of Hebrew origin [H3091]; Jesus (that is, Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites: - Jesus.
...its interesting that some translators presented a contextual lie, to suit their own religious bias to make it seem like it was speaking about Joshua; out of context and seemingly irrelevant - however - the verse is clearly speaking about the fact that Jesus did NOT change the Lords day from the 7th day to the pagan 'day of the sun' ie: first day - sunday...; but the pagan pseudo-Christian emperor of rome; Constantine did ie:
Constantine created the earliest Sunday law known to history in AD 321. It says this:
"On the venerable Day of the sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits: because it often happens that another Day is not so suitable for grain sowing or for vine planting: lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.[SUP]"
Following this initial legislation, both emperors and Popes in succeeding centuries added other laws to strengthen Sunday observance. What began as a pagan ordinance ended as a Christian regulation. Close on the heels of the Edict of Constantine followed the Catholic Church Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD):
[/SUP]
[SUP]"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord’s Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ."[/SUP]
...no, they don't believe in salvation by works, but by Grace first, then as per James ie:
Jas 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Jas 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Jas 2:25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
Jas 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
...in addition; many read the KJV where it says:
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
...its clearly NOT about salvation by works that the SDA movement teaches : that is a total misconception - what they DO teach is OBEDIENCE TO GOD, which 'after Grace' is seen in works according to James, AND is EXPECTED by God as in Revelations 22:14 ... and other verses quoted by Christ regarding the law and prophets and loving God which shows obedience to His Word...
...its that simple..., and that is the basic essence of what they believe in a nutshell in this regard...., which is GOOD !!!
Jas 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Jas 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Jas 2:25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
Jas 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
...in addition; many read the KJV where it says:
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
...its clearly NOT about salvation by works that the SDA movement teaches : that is a total misconception - what they DO teach is OBEDIENCE TO GOD, which 'after Grace' is seen in works according to James, AND is EXPECTED by God as in Revelations 22:14 ... and other verses quoted by Christ regarding the law and prophets and loving God which shows obedience to His Word...
...its that simple..., and that is the basic essence of what they believe in a nutshell in this regard...., which is GOOD !!!
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Yahweh willing, I will never be owned by any denomination of mankind, but I will always fellowship with any and all who love Yeshua, Jesus, as his or her Savior, and consider Him the same as God.
Having said that, the SDA is a fine group of worhipers who do now accept the diety of Yeshua. It is their practice to not eat meat I believe, and they have a few other rules and regulations particular to the SDA doctrine.
They love Jesus, Yeshua, as the Savior, they are my family also, though restricted somewhat by their own theology. What is the difference between the SDA and any other named theology that claims best knowledge of the Word? None that I see.
PS...any theology touting itself as the only way to understand the Word is going to answer to our Father for that one.
Yahweh bless and guide all who have called on Yeshua in spirit and truth, amen. You are my true family.
Having said that, the SDA is a fine group of worhipers who do now accept the diety of Yeshua. It is their practice to not eat meat I believe, and they have a few other rules and regulations particular to the SDA doctrine.
They love Jesus, Yeshua, as the Savior, they are my family also, though restricted somewhat by their own theology. What is the difference between the SDA and any other named theology that claims best knowledge of the Word? None that I see.
PS...any theology touting itself as the only way to understand the Word is going to answer to our Father for that one.
Yahweh bless and guide all who have called on Yeshua in spirit and truth, amen. You are my true family.
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L
Ecclesiastes 12:14 KJV
(14) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
1 Corinthians 3:9 KJV
(9) For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
Revelation 20:12 KJV
(12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Romans 8:1 KJV
(1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
If we are in Christ we walk after the Spirit, walking requires movement not staying still. So the judgement means if we are in Christ we are safe if we are not in Christ we are not safe
(14) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
1 Corinthians 3:9 KJV
(9) For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
Revelation 20:12 KJV
(12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Romans 8:1 KJV
(1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
If we are in Christ we walk after the Spirit, walking requires movement not staying still. So the judgement means if we are in Christ we are safe if we are not in Christ we are not safe
...I have not met any religion that IMO is 'spot on', but some are closer than others. Some of the reasons the SDA's believe thiers is the 'true religion' is because it is most bible based. They also understand that there are 'other folds' as Yahshua mentioned ie:
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
They encourage vegetarianism, but some do eat meat and there is some debating with others regarding this; largely it is not considered a real issue; but they DEFINITELY follow a kosher diet...
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
They encourage vegetarianism, but some do eat meat and there is some debating with others regarding this; largely it is not considered a real issue; but they DEFINITELY follow a kosher diet...
...well, in my travels - through a range of churches for some period of time; I have not come across a major denomination that is as close to trying to be obedient to God in every way they can determine via the word for word directions in the bible as applicable to the new Covenant in proper perspective to the old. Sure; they have some shortcomings, but as I see it (apart from some fringe Sabbath/Messianic groups and/or churches) none are as interested in actually being as obedient to God and His Word as the SDA's as far as major denominations go. I don't agree with certain key points - which is why I am not a member; and in addition I go outside the square of nominal thinking as far as most church creeds are concerned --- but on the whole, that is what I find...
...many others practise 'selective obedience' I find, where they choose what is appropriate to them (tithing is a big one) and discard the rest they don't want to keep as being 'legalistic' generally and being 'under the law'... It does amaze me tho, how many of these kinds have 'mini-sermons' within sermons quoting the Old Testament regarding tithing as though it was a directive from Christ Himself; yet there is MUCH more evidence in the New Testament to keep the 7th day as the Lords Day than to 'tithe'..., yet mentioning keeping the Shabbat is considered 'legalistic' and being 'under bondage' --- and yet tithing (originally to support the Levitical priesthood) --- is not !!! I am not speaking against tithing, I am just pointing out the 'selective obedience' factor, which I believe is a form of hypocrisy...
...many others practise 'selective obedience' I find, where they choose what is appropriate to them (tithing is a big one) and discard the rest they don't want to keep as being 'legalistic' generally and being 'under the law'... It does amaze me tho, how many of these kinds have 'mini-sermons' within sermons quoting the Old Testament regarding tithing as though it was a directive from Christ Himself; yet there is MUCH more evidence in the New Testament to keep the 7th day as the Lords Day than to 'tithe'..., yet mentioning keeping the Shabbat is considered 'legalistic' and being 'under bondage' --- and yet tithing (originally to support the Levitical priesthood) --- is not !!! I am not speaking against tithing, I am just pointing out the 'selective obedience' factor, which I believe is a form of hypocrisy...
Well I have no idea what makes you qualified to judge the NT churches as to their fidelity. Perhaps you have some unique quality not given to the rest of the body. I fail however to see how you escape your personal biases.
Perhaps if those who know the truth would focus on the truth instead of focusing on the error then those in the error would receive the truth. Those who are lost and keep the Sabbath are still lost. Those who are saved and meet on the first day of the week are still saved. Those who tithe because they are obligated to do so are unfortunate. Those who have learned to give of free will through love of the Lord know joy.
Your mileage may vary.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Perhaps if those who know the truth would focus on the truth instead of focusing on the error then those in the error would receive the truth. Those who are lost and keep the Sabbath are still lost. Those who are saved and meet on the first day of the week are still saved. Those who tithe because they are obligated to do so are unfortunate. Those who have learned to give of free will through love of the Lord know joy.
Your mileage may vary.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Although I am not an SDA and don't agree with some of their doctrines, I do believe that you are making an errant statement here...
Christ never, ever taught that salvation could be earned by works, yet He did teach obedience to the Law...
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
John the Baptist was the greatest of human beings...
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
John prepared the way for Christ how? By telling everyone to believe Him who was coming?
Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Also the Apostle Peter taught this...
Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act_3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
John admonishes us...
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Yep, the demons believe and tremble, but they will not willingly obey.
Christ never, ever taught that salvation could be earned by works, yet He did teach obedience to the Law...
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
John the Baptist was the greatest of human beings...
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
John prepared the way for Christ how? By telling everyone to believe Him who was coming?
Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Also the Apostle Peter taught this...
Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act_3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
John admonishes us...
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Yep, the demons believe and tremble, but they will not willingly obey.
D
Amen! Romans 8:1 is a scary verse. Who among us does not occasionally sinned by giving in to the flesh. But it does say walk not according to the flesh, implying one who is guided focused on the flesh. However, if there is no Hell and death is annihilation, then we have nothing to fear, but this verse implies those who walk according to the flesh are condemned. Right or wrong?