Grace through faith.

Grandpa · Jun 6, 2013

1 Peter 4:6-19
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
[SUP]11[/SUP]If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]12[/SUP]Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
[SUP]19[/SUP]Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

Hebrews 12:28-29
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For our God is a consuming fire.

RickShafer · Jun 6, 2013

It's hilarious how it is assumed that we are good enough to "make a decision" by our own "freewill"!

Almost humorous.

Like saying not all have fallen short of the grace of God.

Like there is some small immutable island of righteousness in the soul of man that is immune from the curse of death.

- Spiritual death.

What island is that? - Where is it described in the Bible?

It's Not.

All of the human condition is fallen. - Body Soul and Spirit.

Therefore it is impossible to make a "Holy", unblemished deciding on it's own.

Cobus · Jun 7, 2013

Rick are not God's Children on that ISLAND? In Christ? Did Jesus not say.... MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD, if it were my people would have fought for it..... Not even Jesus fought for the world, His Kingdom is NOT HERE!

Rick get this in your head for once in your life... I have NEVER said it is by my doing or any man's doing that God makes HOLY! God makes holy and PERFECT every person he ENTERS INTO CHRIST!... Perfection is in CHRIST, not MAN!!!

But as 2 Peter 1:21 says... ALL HOLY MEN OF GOD IS PERFECT!!! They are moved by the Holy Spirit, NOT THEMSELVES....

I have NEVER claimed to be even a child of God, let alone say I am perfect or without sin, but does that make it that God does not perfect HIS children BEFORE He adds them to the Body of Christ? NOPE that is how HE works. The Bible is the proof, not me the Bible! I only believe 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18, WITHOUT editing it!

I have spent 16000 hours in the Bible the last 15 years, I have tested and tested the Word of God, I know the Word well, VERY WELL, thanks to God that made the time for me to spend learning and studying God's Word. I SEE the Word in action EVERY moment of my life. I see how Satan and his FALSE teachings keep people AWAY FROM GOD'S blessings.... Isee how the MANY follow the teachings of MEN.... MEN teach imperfection, God teach PERFECTION... Look what Jesus said.... JUST LOOK....

Mtthew 5:48.... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Some people try to explain that this perfection is something we cannot understand... but look what Jesus said... Be perfect EVEN as your Father in heaven is perfect... EVEN that menas to the same level HE IS PERFECT....

Do you people think Jesus was joking when He said this? I do not! I think HE NEVER JOKED! This is serious. If you do not believe God makes His children perfect right here on earth you do not BELIEVE JESUS! And then you are LOST, and need to be found. Here GOD'S CALLING.... it is a HIGH CALLING.... TO BE PERFECT.... Seek and you shall find...

SEEK FIRST... GOD'S KINGDOM AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS... (HIS PERFECT RIGHTEOUSNESS) ... and ALL THINGS SHALL BE ADDED UNTO YOU...

And I have to believe you found it while still sinning.... NOW THAT IS A JOKE THAT MAY END UP TRAGICALLY!

May the Lord at least HAVE HIS WILL DONE IN ME! I know His will is..... BE PERFECT, and since I cannot make myself perfect, HIS WILL WILL DO IT! AMEN!

homwardbound · Jun 7, 2013

Cobus said:

I like your analogy, mine is similar, I learned it from ptp ministries, realanswers.net, many years ago from a man named Bob George

Living like an eskimo. Goes out of his hut, puts a stake in the ground ties a rope around the stake and himself, then goes out to hunt a storm comes along and he gets lost in the storm while hunting, and since he has a rope tied to him he can always find home pulling himself back home by the rope.

You see this is how it is with Christ, Christ is our Steak, and when we get lost out here in the world, we actually aren't ever lost we have our steak to eat, and be thankful to Father for this, that we can depend on Father asa sson as we see what the traps here in the world are trying to do. And immediately be at home safe and secure in Father, haveing Jesus Christ the rigthteous as our advocate, our sin eater forever, constantly.

You know how monkeys get trapped in africa? The trappers cut a hole in a coconut and leave it for the monkey, the monkey comes along and sticks its hand in the coconut, and just sits there, it can't get its hand back out after clinching it, all he has to do is let go of the beans that where put in it, but he won't let go, so here come the trappers and take the poor monkey away

I see this is waht the Law or any law does to people it traps them they won't let go of all the law and thus are trapped as the monkey is trapped and won't let go.
under the Law under a curse even though the Law is good, just not good for sinful flesh. Eother makkes one proud and boastful, or guilty to death, and the fight is on
If only we would just let go of the Law all Law, then we would be free
Thanks for your analogy, hope mine gives some help along your path

homwardbound · Jun 7, 2013

Kerry said:

Jesus was and is the propitiation for the ones that believe in Christ for all our sins past, as soon as any is past done taken care of by the Christ back at the cross, the last sacrifice for sin and the last shedding of blood for anymore sin to ever be executed by God that is.
There is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood and Christ was the last shedding for all mankind to have a chance for life everlastingby the resurrection of Christ if only people will believe. God did it all for us, he has had Mercy in and through the cross of Christ for all mankind, has sent the Holy Ghost to the one's that beleive for the Holy Ghost to testify through them tellliing them that God the Father took all sin away through Christ by his death, John the Babtist was and is a witness to this John 1:29. Now life does not come from death, Life comes from resurrection after death, death first was for the redemption to all mankind, and for mankind to put their Faith (trust) in the finished work of Christ Jesus, their sins all have been blotted out at the death of Christ, and now in the Fsather's sight seeing us as sinless so he could come and live in us teachiing each of us how to trust in the finished work, and be alive daily in God where no sin can ever occur
We personally caniin and of ourselves ever attain Sainthood, but we can be so focused oin the new life in Christ, thanking and praising Christ for waht Christ did for us, that we do not even think about sin, because it is dead, onoy when onme starts thinking about again and again and tries to stop it, then that one fails,, and if that one does not failafter thinking about it and succeds then that one gets proud and boastful
Sound familar to anyone, food for thought, meat, a steak to chew up and eat, dont forget the milk, to wash down the truth and escape this world and its traps

homwardbound · Jun 7, 2013

SarahM777 said:

Cobus,

Was Abraham declared righteous before or after he lied twice? Was Noah declared righteous before or after he got drunk?
Was Lot declared righteous before or after he got drunk? Did Paul rebuke Peter about his double mindedness before or after Peter was born again? Did Jesus pray this before or after Peter denied Him and the they all fled?

John 17

6 “I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[c] that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.17 Sanctify them by[d] the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

See if they were declared righteous and blameless BEFORE they did the things they did,how does that fit in with your thinking? Why did the writers lay it out that way? What is God trying to tell us? It's there for a reason and you can't leave that out. Both are in there whether you like it or not so how do they BOTH fit together?

And Sister that is nothing more than the flesh and the Spirit of truth fighting over one's soul
So each day lets choose the Spirit of truth to lead, which is the Spirit of God and no sincan enter, I think this what Cobus might be trying to say and where he wants to be all the time, and really don't we all that do beleive yes?

homwardbound · Jun 7, 2013

Cobus said:

And this is the differance between the Flesh and the Spirit of God, and Cobus by belief in God through the cross God took care of the sin issue through the Son in order to be able to live in us the ones that believe,
The fight as was in Peter that Paul rebuked of Peter was Peters flesh, just as Jesus did the Same to Peter when Peter said Jesus is the Messiah, Christ said his fahter had to reveal this to him for flesh and blood can't. Then Christ starts to talk about his crucifixion coming and Peter immediately starts refuting it and Chrsit says get thee behind me Satan. So it is the battle of Flesh and the Spirit of God that rages on to this very day and is why we are to be born again by trust oin the Father that he did it for us thorugh the cross of his Son and by the resurrection we that beleive he did it all are saved by the resurrecvted life of Christ, not the death, the death was and is the propitiation for taking the sin issue out of the way from Fathers vantage point, so he can install the new life in you, sealing you, me and all that believe in the Holy Ghost, being taught from this point on to walk in trust to God to do in us waht we could never do in ourselves. God today living not only in us but through us

Galatians 5 a good look at the war between flesh and blood and the Spirit of God. And where I want to be and stay at all times in God's Spirit, by Faiuth that he can do this ion me and through me, and IF I fall short of this truth, Ican stand right back up and thank Father for Jesus and thank Jesus for in advance taking care of that and move on towrds the mark as Paul sowell said he does, immediately puts it behind him and moves forward, and as Peter finally learned all sin as soon as it is past it is forgiven before anyone can get their hands in a prayer position or even close their eyes. Past all past. How soon is past? before I can blink
Hopoe you get it I think you do

homwardbound · Jun 7, 2013

Cobus said:

Cobus, the wayyou portray this as it should be we be perfect, and i=you say God does this yes anhd it is not done yet in you and you are praying for this and I commend you on the not wanting to sin, I understand this, Whew!!!!!!!! Do I. I found out from this ovewrwhelming desire that I can't, the key word "I" and finally gave up the "I" as Paul describes so well in romans 7 that sin dwells in his body, flesh and blood,and that he serves God with his mind, the hidden man of his heart. Yet the law of sin and eath is always present takinig him into captivity, every time that he, (I, YOU or anyone) tried to keep from sinful behavior. So he ended with who will deliver me Jesus Christ my savior my Lord, which is whatI hear you saying and you are waiting on. Why are oyu waitinig tihs is done for you back at the cross of chirst.
Paul said it it is no longer him that sins, it is
[h=3]Romans 7:7-25[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[h=3]The Law and Sin[/h][SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. [SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Hopefor youtoseethe differance and continue to trust God to show you the truth and yuor continued need for God. I am not promoting sin and neither is Paul and I see neither are you, and I am thankful for that about you, just trying to help you see how to walk and learn do just trust God to stop whatever sin(s) are besetting you
Love you Cobus, much

homwardbound · Jun 7, 2013

RickShafer said:

That Island is the Spirit of God which we all are called to stay not stray from, by giving too much credit to flesh and say oh "I" can do it, when only God can in and then thorugh the berliever if we will only get out of the way. Which might be what Cobus is saying and not realizeing this, I do not know, but this is how I see it, "I" am in the way of God, when "I" need to be out of God's way and serve by the oinner man as Paul says he does, and therefore dies daily and lives daily by this inner man that serves God. Pretty simple to me now, and was not way back when

homwardbound · Jun 7, 2013

Cobus said:

His kingdom is in the believers, those that see they are no longer citizens of this earth and made citizens of Heaven and worship in Heaven where the true Tabernacle is, and thus those being in Heaven even those that are placed back here on earth is for the soul purpose of being ambassadors representing the true kingdom in Heaven, the Joy, the peace and the righteousness found in Christ that is what delivered us to Father and forever have the Joy, the righteousness and peace that passes beyond Human understanding. Born of God's Spirit by God the same as he already rose christ from the dead, so we are first to dier in Chirst at the death and then know that God will also raise us from the dead as he did Christ in the Spirit, and this is the only way God can be worshipped today is in the Spirit period, no ands, ifs , buts or maybes about this
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
John 4:24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
John 14:17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

It is by asking God to do this for you, because God won't until you ask, God does not interfer with free choice as many of us flesh natured people do and act as if we are something when we are not ever. God is the only one good, period. Therefore I have chosen to partake in God greatness and perfection and stay humble under God, knowiing that anytime I think I am something there will be a messenger of Satan to come along and buffet me, just as Paul sowell described about himself in 2 cor 12:7 on ward rerad it and ask God to show you the truth hidden behind this glorying in his, my, yours, iniquities. This world sends out the armies in the front to kill. God sends out the praise and worship band up front. Who wins? God read all about it with King Jehosaphat when war came to hiom by three other armies and how Jehosaphat sent out the praise and worship band up front, and read how the worldly armies destroyed themselves
So the why did Paul walk away glorying in his iniquities, Go9d will show you if God is willing

homwardbound · Jun 7, 2013

Cobus said:

Rick are not God's Children on that ISLAND? In Christ? Did Jesus not say.... MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD, if it were my people would have fought for it..... Not even Jesus fought for the world, His Kingdom is NOT HERE!

Rick get this in your head for once in your life... I have NEVER said it is by my doing or any man's doing that God makes HOLY! God makes holy and PERFECT every person he ENTERS INTO CHRIST!... Perfection is in CHRIST, not MAN!!!

But as 2 Peter 1:21 says... ALL HOLY MEN OF GOD IS PERFECT!!! They are moved by the Holy Spirit, NOT THEMSELVES....

I have NEVER claimed to be even a child of God, let alone say I am perfect or without sin, but does that make it that God does not perfect HIS children BEFORE He adds them to the Body of Christ? NOPE that is how HE works. The Bible is the proof, not me the Bible! I only believe 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18, WITHOUT editing it!

I have spent 16000 hours in the Bible the last 15 years, I have tested and tested the Word of God, I know the Word well, VERY WELL, thanks to God that made the time for me to spend learning and studying God's Word. I SEE the Word in action EVERY moment of my life. I see how Satan and his FALSE teachings keep people AWAY FROM GOD'S blessings.... Isee how the MANY follow the teachings of MEN.... MEN teach imperfection, God teach PERFECTION... Look what Jesus said.... JUST LOOK....

Mtthew 5:48.... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Some people try to explain that this perfection is something we cannot understand... but look what Jesus said... Be perfect EVEN as your Father in heaven is perfect... EVEN that menas to the same level HE IS PERFECT....

Do you people think Jesus was joking when He said this? I do not! I think HE NEVER JOKED! This is serious. If you do not believe God makes His children perfect right here on earth you do not BELIEVE JESUS! And then you are LOST, and need to be found. Here GOD'S CALLING.... it is a HIGH CALLING.... TO BE PERFECT.... Seek and you shall find...

SEEK FIRST... GOD'S KINGDOM AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS... (HIS PERFECT RIGHTEOUSNESS) ... and ALL THINGS SHALL BE ADDED UNTO YOU...

And I have to believe you found it while still sinning.... NOW THAT IS A JOKE THAT MAY END UP TRAGICALLY!

May the Lord at least HAVE HIS WILL DONE IN ME! I know His will is..... BE PERFECT, and since I cannot make myself perfect, HIS WILL WILL DO IT! AMEN!

It is God's will for you to see that God through his son has done this for you already by belief and you will walk upright as you are called except that it won't be you it will be God through you, if only you will ask God to take over and you theself steps out of the way, God will not interfer in ones free will. That is why Christ said to ask and you shall recieve, now beleive and you will recieve giving God all the glory

zone · Jun 7, 2013

homwardbound said:

June 07, 2013

Dear Homwardbound,

I hope you are well, as you seems always to be. You're a very happy person, and I understand that you labor to emphasize Love over all. When I do actually read your posts (you have so many), at times the authentic Christian joy and love do come through.

Hom, I recall from prior discussions with you that you hold to a form of the doctrine of dispensationalism, which says we are in an "Age of Grace" (meaning roughly that everything before the Cross is virtually irrelevant for us after Golgotha). I apologize in advance for not marking out the particulars of your version of this system - there are so many varieties i simply don't have the time to delineate each variety in every dispensationalist's post. Perhaps one day you would be kind enough to present a detailed outline of your position.

This is an online source chosen more or less at random that does agree with some of your views, perhaps some other time in another thread it may be a starting point for a dialogue on the issue of your version of Mid Acts Dispensationalism:

GRACE AMBASSADORS
Mid Acts Dispensational - Answers to Your Questions

Mid Acts Dispensational Questions and Answers < click

In any case, the reason I am writing today, is a portion of your post quoted above. In the past, you have stated that you no longer sin. Over time and with careful reading and re-reading of your thoughts I have come to the conclusion (though by all means please correct me if I have concluded wrongly), that in fact it's not your claim that you are without sin in actuality.

Your claim seems to be, as has been articulated in your post, that sin is simply no longer an issue after the Cross. Bear with me as I attempt to expand your idea so I might understand it more clearly and be able to discuss it with precision in the future.

It seems you believe that in this Age of Grace, we may indeed sin, but that it simply no longer matters - or perhaps better said God no longer notices it; or holds it against us; or is offended by it....something along those lines. I draw this conclusion based on this remark:

Peter finally learned all sin as soon as it is past it is forgiven before anyone can get their hands in a prayer position or even close their eyes. Past all past. How soon is past? before I can blink

So, is it accurate to conclude that you say that sin is forgiven automatically, without confession (or remorse) on our part? You've quite clearly said there's not even any need to pray about any sin (therefore confession, seeking cleansing and forgiveness is unnecessary), in fact there's not even time to pray about it.

Now I am in no way suggesting you have ever indicated this Age of Grace gives us a license to sin. God forbid.

But it is true, i assume that you do not believe we are to go to the Lord seeking forgiveness when we do sin. Is this a fair assumption?

I hope I have not offended you in any way with my concerns, or question.
A good day to you, wishing you all the best,
Zone

zone · Jun 7, 2013

homwardbound said:

June 07, 2013

Dear Homwardbound,

I'm writing again so soon! Hope you don't mind.
I saw this post and must say I'm somewhat bewildered by what it might mean.
You seem to share a form of a belief which Cobus has expressed, that you, hom, "step out of the way and God takes over".
That somehow you the man no longer exists, or perhaps it is the goal that you hope to eventually no longer exist as your remark here states:

you will walk upright as you are called except that it won't be you it will be God through you

I'm unclear as to how this works, since nothing like this is recorded for us in the Scriptures, even among the prophets of the Old Testament who were at times carried along by the Spirit of God, though they themselves continued as the people they were, with all their personas intact, and their own traits and unique characteristics remaining.

Wouldn't you say that people do continue to exist, as themselves, although changed and made new (spiritually alive to God), having been born from above, according to the Will of God?

That wouldn't square exactly with this statement you made:

it won't be you it will be God through you, if only you will ask God to take over and you theself steps out of the way, God will not interfer in ones free will.

Is it that you are saying God will not interfere with one's free will unless they step aside and ask Him to take over (their being), whereby they are then able to walk upright, since it is no longer the person acting on any level, rather it is God Himself acting for them? And is the above notion really the reason:

why Christ said to ask and you shall recieve, now beleive and you will recieve giving God all the glory?

Was Jesus actually saying here that we ought to step aside and ask God to take over, and He would do everything for and through us? I'm not sure about, that since the passage you cited was about the cursing of the fig tree (apostate national Israel), and Jesus preparing His chosen to carry out their mission of evangelism in the hostile territory of unbelieving Israel.
We know they were specially called and chosen and empowered to work great wonders during their mission, as it is recorded just that way:

Matthew 21:22
20And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! 21Jesus answered and said to them, Truly I say to you, If you have faith, and doubt not, you shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if you shall say to this mountain, Be you removed, and be you cast into the sea; it shall be done. 22And all things, whatever you shall ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive.

I apologize for the convoluted post and query, but I do confess it's at times a challenge to discern what you are saying. This would be due to my own shortcomings, so please forgive me for that. I do know you don't approve of mixing truth with error, so I trust that this post will come to you in that spirit - of seeking to purify our doctrines and keep comparing scripture with scripture, reading and quoting always in context so as not to cause stumbling, and certainly so as not to offend to Our Father.

Zone

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jun 7, 2013

I wonder who hacked zone's account?

geetha · Jun 7, 2013

nice post

Cobus · Jun 8, 2013

Some days Zonie moves me.... But I love her with a heart that I do not have, if God does not GIVE! Zonie, I am one man that know what God said about the OLD MAN! I just love the fact that God said that those that are in Christ is a NEW CREATURE.

My dear friend, the fact is also that the OLD HAS PASSED.... I so wish God said... the OLD HAD DIED! Looks like people knows more about DEAD, than PASSED. Zonie, I believe God, and there is scripture that beautifully explain that it is ABBA FATHER who lives the NEW LIFE of the NEW CREATURE.

I ask this from God and this was His answer.
Lord, how can this new creature, espaecially a few of them together NOT EVER SIN? And He said....
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

If God is above you and I Zonie, and through us Zonie, and IN us Zonie, are we not DRENCHED, COVERED and FILLED with GOD HIMSELF? And then I remembered how Paul said.... I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Now I see what Paul meant... Paul still lived, but because of the GOD IN HIM, it is not as it is Paul still living, but the SON IN HIM. The things SAUL did no longer make Paul arrest the LORD and persecute JESUS. But rather the opposite... Saul is crucified, and the Jesus in Paul was resurrected to live the rest of his days FOR GOD, not AGAINST God.
To live in faith, is to live the way God wants us to live... A GODLY LIFE. Holy, and perfect! Jesus lived this life IN HIMSELF and now HE can live this life IN ALL OF US! GOD IN ALL! I can live in the flesh and in FAITH becasue HE GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME! Not His LIFE ON THE CROSS, HIMSELF.... If Jesus who died on the cross to get me clean, now lives IN ME, how can I get dirty again? Nevertheless I live, YET NOT I BUT CHRIST IN ME! Do you see the LIKENESS of the NEW ME and Christ.... I WHO TALK AND WALK AND ACT LIKE CHRIST LIVE IN ME!! God in me, and ME IN GOD!
That is how faith and Grace FINISHES SALVATION IN CHRIST!

For... Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This NEW is ALL CHRIST, and NO COBUS! The new heart, is OPPOSITE of the OLD. The NEW Spirit is GOD’S and the NEW creature is ALL GOD. ALL the OLD COBUS is DEAD!!!!

The OLD Cobus had Satan as father and master, and Satan liked him, the NEW Cobus has God as Father and Lord and Satan hates him. But God still loves him, and are WELL PLEASED with HIM! No man in the flesh can please God, thqat is why God put Jesus in the flesh.... So that God can be pleased, by this godly man. There is a big difference between godly man and man in flesh.

Would this not be LOVELY if we also can say this.... And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

I will rely on God to give me what He gave Paul, and every other person HE GAVE HIS SEED TOO, TO REMAIN IN ME AS WELL! God knows, I ACHE for that. I thirst for HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, and I hunger for HIS SPIRIT! Amen!

homwardbound · Jun 8, 2013

zone said:

Zone, ThankYou deeply from my heart
I am notsure that I can explain to you what being forgiven in advance back at the crossmeans, only what it means to me. What my walk with my Father has concludedthrough the finished work of Christ, and being forgiven as soon as it is past,which is posted by Peter, when I used to continuously be in prayer forforgiveness over and over, doing the same thing that I did not want to do overand over, to the point that I was sure God had to be taking Pepto-Bismol on me,at least turning his back in a swivel chair as people do this over others doingwrong. I was exhausted in trying to be perfect and was not accepting of sin anyin my life, I didn't want it and still don't ever want it, so let’s see whatPeter says, to me.

2 Peter 1

NewInternational Version (NIV)

1 SimonPeter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those whothrough the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received afaith as precious as ours:

2 Grace andpeace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

ConfirmingOne’s Calling and Election

3 His divinepower has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge ofhim who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has givenus his very great and precious promises, so that through them you mayparticipate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the worldcaused by evil desires.

5 For thisvery reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness,knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance;and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and tomutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasingmeasure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in yourknowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them isnearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their pastsins.

10Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your callingand election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and youwill receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and SaviorJesus Christ.

When I cameto the end of the energy of my own flesh, and I saw that I was forgiven back atthe cross by God from God through Christ, That is was over I recived the greatand precious promises as Peter talked about in the scripture I just posted
So my Questionwas to God. Okay I am forgiven and any sin I might ever commit again is pasttense already forgiven, Please tell me then what do I do with my sin, when Isin, since I do not ask for anymore forgiveness from you Father, what do I nowdo with it, you know I am remorseful over it.

Then I heardthis
I (God) donot want you to quit sinning, Perplexed and not sure I was hearing the HolySpirit correctly, I was jumping back with surely God goes want me to quit sinning,darn I have been trying to quit for years.I have not accomplished and am starting to see that I never can do it 100%, butI do want to, no God wants me to quit.

Then Iheard, have you been able to since for the last 20 years you have been bent onstopping all sin and you have one in particular that pesters the living tar outof you, as you think is breaking fellowship with me (GOD) speaking through theHoly Ghost, and you have to get forgiven to be in good graces with me (God)
I said yes,and the answer back was has it worked, and you are up and down like a Yo-Yo,
You see Howard;I do not want you to quit sin, because you can't, not completely, as you nowsee so well.
You can't beperfect and no one can only my Son could, and was here on earth did that foryou, and took on the death for you and then rose to new life for you and theentire world
(God)speaking again, you see Howard I do not want you to quit; I (God) want you tostart. I said start what?
And theanswer came back "The New Life" if you get busy with thanking me forfirst taking away all sin by Jesus my only perfect Son, and praising me (God)for giving you new life, in my son's resurrected life, then by this, being sobusy with this new life, there will be no time to sin, because your mind willnot be focused on sin. If your mind is not focused on whether you sin or not,and is busy on being thankful to me (God) then you won't sin, you will haveescaped the corruption of this world, by what you are focused on
So I wasthen shown this scripture and revealed the meaning of it
Galatians 6:8

For he whosows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to theSpirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

I had beensowing (thinking) to the flesh, not wanting to perform sin and guess what I wastrapped in continuously doing sin as I suspect many are by thinking of notdoing sin, and thus do it
I do notknow much about dispensationalist, and really do not care much about it, or anyother names man has come up with to disrupt the power of God and how deep God'slove is for all that really do believe and are not fakes acting as if they knowGod. God is LOVE and LOVE goes on forever. And we are called to love others asmuch as God loves us.
So this ? Remainshow much does God love me? And I guarantee, no one will love their neighbormore than what they believe how much God loves them. And this is why so muchjudge mentalness is all over the board. Because as
I wasthinking God must be angry at me for that sin; I automatically would try topass it off to someone else by saying and condemning others over their sinfulbehavior. Well Sister that today has stopped, seeing the depth of God's loveand since the enemy can't get me through the stinking thinking of whether I sinor not any longer, and am daily dying and trusting God by trait now, I am andhave been being attacked physically, again, this time apparently to permanentdisability, not totally sure yet, doctor has to make that final determination,and I am only 56, I do not like it, but it is a reality, that I need to accept,and is trying to put me in bondage through this and is a new thing to overcomeby the grace of God, and accept it as I have accepted that God just loves meanyway, regardless.
I hope Ihave helped to explain what God has done for you as well by the cross. The lovethat is found in that is amazing and how cannot one love all as God did throughis Son Christ, just as Peter said how can one refuse water Baptism after this whatGod did for them us the gentiles, as he was speaking the Holy Ghost came uponthem, the love of God spread abroad in their hearts, no more condemnation fromGod!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is whatchanged me to GOD JUST LOVE YOU as the foundation that God has been building meoff of. No matter what happens to me, no matter what I do or not do, God Justlove me, you, you and you, and all the world. This is what gave me a whole newoutlook, and I am getting counseling over my issues of the physical problemsthat I am going through. Not over my Soul, all is well there, it is my fleshbody that is not functioning well that is attacking me today, trying to get me backas it once had me trying to quit sinning and all I did was sin, sin and sinagain.
Now I am not saying I will not ever sin again Ido not know, I cannot predict the future, but I can die to flesh carnal naturedaily and be alive to God daily, trusting God and being busy in God, thus notproviding any room for sin to invade my mind to take me captive as it once did

homwardbound · Jun 8, 2013

zone said:

June 07, 2013

Dear Homwardbound,

I'm writing again so soon! Hope you don't mind.
I saw this post and must say I'm somewhat bewildered by what it might mean.
You seem to share a form of a belief which Cobus has expressed, that you, hom, "step out of the way and God takes over".
That somehow you the man no longer exists, or perhaps it is the goal that you hope to eventually no longer exist as your remark here states:

you will walk upright as you are called except that it won't be you it will be God through you

I'm unclear as to how this works, since nothing like this is recorded for us in the Scriptures, even among the prophets of the Old Testament who were at times carried along by the Spirit of God, though they themselves continued as the people they were, with all their personas intact, and their own traits and unique characteristics remaining.

Wouldn't you say that people do continue to exist, as themselves, although changed and made new (spiritually alive to God), having been born from above, according to the Will of God?

That wouldn't square exactly with this statement you made:

it won't be you it will be God through you, if only you will ask God to take over and you theself steps out of the way, God will not interfer in ones free will.

Is it that you are saying God will not interfere with one's free will unless they step aside and ask Him to take over (their being), whereby they are then able to walk upright, since it is no longer the person acting on any level, rather it is God Himself acting for them? And is the above notion really the reason:

why Christ said to ask and you shall recieve, now beleive and you will recieve giving God all the glory?

Was Jesus actually saying here that we ought to step aside and ask God to take over, and He would do everything for and through us? I'm not sure about, that since the passage you cited was about the cursing of the fig tree (apostate national Israel), and Jesus preparing His chosen to carry out their mission of evangelism in the hostile territory of unbelieving Israel.
We know they were specially called and chosen and empowered to work great wonders during their mission, as it is recorded just that way:

Matthew 21:22
20And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! 21Jesus answered and said to them, Truly I say to you, If you have faith, and doubt not, you shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if you shall say to this mountain, Be you removed, and be you cast into the sea; it shall be done. 22And all things, whatever you shall ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive.

I apologize for the convoluted post and query, but I do confess it's at times a challenge to discern what you are saying. This would be due to my own shortcomings, so please forgive me for that. I do know you don't approve of mixing truth with error, so I trust that this post will come to you in that spirit - of seeking to purify our doctrines and keep comparing scripture with scripture, reading and quoting always in context so as not to cause stumbling, and certainly so as not to offend to Our Father.

Zone

If one does not ask for God to take over and do god's work through them, then tell me who gets the credit? Why you do, and no flesh in God's sight will ever please God.
Waht is it Paul said I am crucified (dead) but alive, this is what I am talking about Sister
Galatians 2:20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Who no longer lives the "I" and is this only for Paul is this not for all of us if only God will permit for us tomove onto maturity, perfection in him
Hebrews 5:10-6-6 especially

[h=3]Hebrews 6:1[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]The Peril of Not Progressing[/h]6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

homwardbound · Jun 8, 2013

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

I personally am not impressed with that remark, brother, I just had to tell you what I thought of this remark, I think it was uncalled for, there I said it and am okay now

homwardbound · Jun 8, 2013

geetha said:

Zone I do Love you as God does regardless, of anything past or future, This I remember always and is what keeps me sane, even though at times I do not feel sane

Grace through faith.

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