By the time the end comes, all the wicked will have been cut off and it will come down to those who believe in Lucifer and those who believe in the Messiah, the sons of darkness vs. the sons of light. The criteria will be solely what you believe.
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once saved always saved.
If we were able to lose salvation it wouldn't be a gift because we would have to get salvation back.
We constantly sin so if that was the case it would be so difficult to be save that's
God sent Jesus to save us.
If we were able to lose salvation it wouldn't be a gift because we would have to get salvation back.
We constantly sin so if that was the case it would be so difficult to be save that's
God sent Jesus to save us.
Most of those who believe that a saved person can lose his salvation also believe that, somehow, you have to earn salvation. If you can undo it you can redo it, it's all your doing. But - the truth is that you can't earn it, you can't work for it and you can't deserve it.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
unfortunately. most of them would deny they are trying to earn it. They can;t even see the flaw in their own legalism.
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Kefa52
Guest
The key word here is "desire". We are all just dirtbag humans. We make mistakes. It is how we learn. This discussion has been going on for 2013 years. +or - What ever callendar you are using.
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feedm3
Guest
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bigscott
Guest
Gods love is far beyond our understanding, Once you accept Christ you are "Born Again", you have a different consciousness. If you truly accepted Christ, then you are his forever. Some people say they have accepted Christ, but never really did. So they go on their lives as they did before with out conviction. But if you truly accepted Christ, things will change and so will you. Your new way of thinking and learning and absorbing Gods Holy Word will guide you into a new life. Though Christians are still tempted and back slide even for years in a life, but they are forgiven when they ask. They do not lose their Salvation no one knows a persons relationship and true convictions other than the person and God/Jesus. Read John 3:16 the strong words "Believeth in Him" tell you Belief is all it takes for Salvation. But when you believe God takes over.
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OwenHeidenreich
Guest
you are simply understanding the word "saved" incorrectly.
just because they said "the prayer to get to heaven" does not mean that they were saved.
the doctrine means that once you realize that Jesus is truly Lord, it is very rare that someone would leave.
just because they said "the prayer to get to heaven" does not mean that they were saved.
the doctrine means that once you realize that Jesus is truly Lord, it is very rare that someone would leave.
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BeanieD
Guest
I don't really believe in "once saved..." It could only count IF we continue in our faith and our walk with Christ. Once we turn away from this, then we can totaly loose our salvation. Never loose the love of God, but when we decide to walk away, we really did it to ourselves.
I’m not into the once saved, always saved thing, but neither am I into the burning in hell forever thing.
We live day by day. When the Lord needs to discipline us, he does. When he doesn’t need to discipline us, he doesn’t. And so, of course, it makes sense to live lives so that the Lord doesn’t need to discipline us. His discipline can be very severe, when that’s what it takes to get our attention.
Amen.
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
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GreenNnice
Guest
Salvation is a free gift? Are you going to take it? Are you going to give it away?
What are YOU gonna do
What are YOU gonna do
This quote ignores an important part by giving emphasis to the "that ye sin not." The point is that we are called to "Be Perfect" and to "Sin Not." However, the rest of the verse is that if any of us sin, all we need do is turn to Christ who is our Advocate, and that he is the propitiation. In essence, we have nothing to fear from sin again. Though I may sin, it can no longer bind me to it. Our sinful natures try to re enslave us to sin by our obsession with it and our guilt. Instead, we should confess and move on and away from our sin. Will we stumble often, and often on the same sin, yes, but we need not fear our failures anymore.
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NiceneCreed
Guest
I don't know if we absolutely must keep the law to be saved. The law does not have the power to justify anyone, because there is no one who is perfect; therefore, the law does not have the power to save mankind, but only to condemn mankind by showing man when the law has been violated, and if the law were sufficient for salvation (justification), than mankind would have no need for a savior. Paul even says, "For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do" (Ephesians 2:18,New International Version, 2011). However, it should be noted that works of faith are not to be confused with works of the law, and I do believe this is where you are getting confused. Paul states we are justified apart from works through faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:23-25); James, to the contrary says, " . . . a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone" (James 2:24). When Paul said that we are "justified," he meant that we are "saved." James, using the same word, meant that we are "authenticated." Furthermore, there seems to be a subtle distinction between works of the law and works of faith, if one takes context of these two scriptures into consideration; sometimes the context we derive from Scripture is contingent upon the semantic range of a given word. In this particular instance, you seem to be unable to separate works of the "law" with works of "faith." So you see, Paul was refuting Jewish legalism and James was referring to works of "faith." Abraham was not justified by works of the law (as some Jews believed), but as the scriptures say, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness" (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3). It was clear that Abraham was not justified by works of the law, but by works of faith. Abraham had faith that God would bear him a child, even though he and Sarah were of old age. Abraham was willing to leave his home in search of the land God had promised, also on a leap of faith; the distinction between works of faith and of the law could not be made any clearer than the example set before us of father Abraham. "Once saved, always saved;" absolutely, as long as one remains faithful to Jesus Christ. However, one should not look to works of the law, as though the law had (has) the power to save, and we should obey the moral and ethical laws of the Bible as much as possible, but the law cannot save, it can only condemn!
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Grace and Peace!
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ed2
Guest
I struggled with this, being in a Pentecostal denomination. The question I ask those who believe a person can forfeit/lose their salvation is this; what does eternal life mean? What did John mean when he said "I write these things to you so that you may KNOW you have eternal life"?
If a person can lose/forfeit eternal life, I can only come up with two scenarios;
1) They didn't really have eternal life, they only appeared to; or
2) God really didn't mean eternal life, he meant temporary life
I'll stick with number 1. If you think you can lose eternal life, then you don't know for sure that you have it. John says that we can know we have it (presently posses it). I used to think I could lose it, and I can tell you, there was never any peace, there was never any assurance. I was constantly looking out for me, me, me, me, worried I was gonna lose it. I came to realize that my assurance is in Christ, that He purchased me, and He will not be denied what He has purchased.
Blessings
Eddie
If a person can lose/forfeit eternal life, I can only come up with two scenarios;
1) They didn't really have eternal life, they only appeared to; or
2) God really didn't mean eternal life, he meant temporary life
I'll stick with number 1. If you think you can lose eternal life, then you don't know for sure that you have it. John says that we can know we have it (presently posses it). I used to think I could lose it, and I can tell you, there was never any peace, there was never any assurance. I was constantly looking out for me, me, me, me, worried I was gonna lose it. I came to realize that my assurance is in Christ, that He purchased me, and He will not be denied what He has purchased.
Blessings
Eddie
Let's see. Once saved always saved. Maybe we should ask Adam and Eve. Or maybe the fallen angels. Or maybe every other televangelist.
If it were true than, why would Jesus tell us, to be saved you must - love thy neighbor, forgive those who trespass against us, eat my flesh and drink my blood, believe in me, obey the commandments. I can go on and on, but you've heard it all before.
One of the sins against the Holy Spirit is the sin of presumption. To think that you are saved no matter what you do will keep you out of heaven, just because of that sin. Don't do it no matter what someone tells you.
If it were true than, why would Jesus tell us, to be saved you must - love thy neighbor, forgive those who trespass against us, eat my flesh and drink my blood, believe in me, obey the commandments. I can go on and on, but you've heard it all before.
One of the sins against the Holy Spirit is the sin of presumption. To think that you are saved no matter what you do will keep you out of heaven, just because of that sin. Don't do it no matter what someone tells you.
When you think you chose God, you can think you can turn your back on Him.
Its not about you. Your salvation had nothing to do with you, your abilites or desires.
Salvation is about one thing and one thing only...God's grace.
When its about you....its not about God...and you fail, 100% all the time.
Romans 9:16
God saves you by Grace, Ephesians 2:8-9. As far as I know God never makes mistakes and His decisions, are perfect.
God does not save you and then throw you away. Nothing can separate you from God...not even your will.
Your will....Jonah. Jonah did not want to go to Ninivah to spread God's message....where did Jonah end up? Ninivah.
Do you want a whale moment? Deuteronomy 28, 14 verses on the blessings of obedience. 50 some verses on the curses for disobedience...
That's, the great ''value'' of your will, to deny God, to sin, to eat of the apple, to kill the egyptian overseer, to commit adultry and kill her husband, and to deny Christ three times.
It must be scary to think you can lose your salvation. God is not a god of fear.
The Holy Spirit is not a joke. Its not fake. Its not the imaginary friend of christians. The Holy Spirit is God. Its permanently in you, as a saved person.
OSAS is not a license to sin. No Holy Spirit indwelt person can sin, and not be convicted of it, by the Holy Spirit. If you feel no conviction for sinning, if you disagree with what the bible calls a sin or think the bible is filled with errors....you are a candidate for walking away from God.
Wanna know why? 'Cause ya never were saved in the first place.
The language I am going to use is very specific. I, cannot, walk away from God. Its impossible.
As Jesus said on the cross, it is finished....and it is.
OSAS defines a perfect God. Thinking you chose God or you can walk away from Him...defines pride.
Its not about you. Your salvation had nothing to do with you, your abilites or desires.
Salvation is about one thing and one thing only...God's grace.
When its about you....its not about God...and you fail, 100% all the time.
Romans 9:16
God saves you by Grace, Ephesians 2:8-9. As far as I know God never makes mistakes and His decisions, are perfect.
God does not save you and then throw you away. Nothing can separate you from God...not even your will.
Your will....Jonah. Jonah did not want to go to Ninivah to spread God's message....where did Jonah end up? Ninivah.
Do you want a whale moment? Deuteronomy 28, 14 verses on the blessings of obedience. 50 some verses on the curses for disobedience...
That's, the great ''value'' of your will, to deny God, to sin, to eat of the apple, to kill the egyptian overseer, to commit adultry and kill her husband, and to deny Christ three times.
It must be scary to think you can lose your salvation. God is not a god of fear.
The Holy Spirit is not a joke. Its not fake. Its not the imaginary friend of christians. The Holy Spirit is God. Its permanently in you, as a saved person.
OSAS is not a license to sin. No Holy Spirit indwelt person can sin, and not be convicted of it, by the Holy Spirit. If you feel no conviction for sinning, if you disagree with what the bible calls a sin or think the bible is filled with errors....you are a candidate for walking away from God.
Wanna know why? 'Cause ya never were saved in the first place.
The language I am going to use is very specific. I, cannot, walk away from God. Its impossible.
As Jesus said on the cross, it is finished....and it is.
OSAS defines a perfect God. Thinking you chose God or you can walk away from Him...defines pride.
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ed2
Guest
I think you may be confusing people who only think they have eternal life with people who actually have eternal life. I do those things you mentioned because God has granted me eternal life. I don't do them to gain or keep eternal life.
Again I ask, what is eternal life?
Eddie
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NiceneCreed
Guest
I couldn't agree more with your statement! We are justified through grace, which is not of ourselves. Furthermore, works of faith "authenticate" our faith, but they are not to be confused with works of the law; the law cannot save. Works of faith, however, are an outward reflection of our inward salvation (grace we have already received). Thank you, and God Bless!
Grace and Peace!
Misdirection. Straw man argument to distract from the subject of the thread.
Except that Jesus did not say that. Jesus said believe on Me. If you believe on Jesus and receive Him as your Savior these other things will proceed from you as an evidence that you are saved. You can be saved and do none of these things. You cannot mature in the Lord apart from serving Him and you will always be uneasy or uncertain thereby never experiencing joy but you can do it.
Oh ye who would judge others. Self righteousness is not pleasing to God. Only the righteousness of Christ will suffice. Instead of condemning others whom you cannot change why not look at yourself in the light of God's word. Church traditions are not of equal authority to the word of God. Religious but lost. Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. Acts 26:28 Perhaps the saddest thing you can hear a man say.
For the cause of Christ
Roger