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One more time, and this will continue until someone comments on the teachings of Yeshua, Jesus, on commandments, or until you recognize the difference between His commandments, including the Ten, the laws. So far when I post our Master's teaching not one who claims we do not need recognize the commandments has replied, but they have leveled accusations.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mar 10:19
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Mar 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
For me, it is getting late, so I hope to see a response to the teachings that truly deals with our Lord's teachings in the morning. If it is ignored by all again. I will not post it in this thread again unless requested to do so. May Yahweh bless all in Yeshua, and may He bring understanding to all of His desire for our behavior in His Only Begotten Son, amen.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mar 10:19
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Mar 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
For me, it is getting late, so I hope to see a response to the teachings that truly deals with our Lord's teachings in the morning. If it is ignored by all again. I will not post it in this thread again unless requested to do so. May Yahweh bless all in Yeshua, and may He bring understanding to all of His desire for our behavior in His Only Begotten Son, amen.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
What was the one thing he lacked? He hadn't come to Christ yet to be born again of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:22-25
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Revelation 12:10-13
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Romans 8:31-39
[SUP]31 [/SUP]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
[SUP]36 [/SUP]As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
H
Hi Michael50, John 832 and JaumeJ,
Michael50 made the following claim, in regards to those who disobey the law:
"Those who reject all urgings from the Holy Spirit will eventually be destroyed"
As you 3 seem to be in agreement in the doctrine of keeping the law, is the statement above saying that God will not forgive 7x70, whereas we as Christians are to forgive 7x70? Are you saying that Christians are more forgiving than God is?
Michael50 made the following claim, in regards to those who disobey the law:
"Those who reject all urgings from the Holy Spirit will eventually be destroyed"
As you 3 seem to be in agreement in the doctrine of keeping the law, is the statement above saying that God will not forgive 7x70, whereas we as Christians are to forgive 7x70? Are you saying that Christians are more forgiving than God is?
H
You haven't really answered my point.
Under the doctrine you follow it's obvious that the thief on the cross was truly blessed with a deathbed salvation. But anyone who lives on as a Christian is at risk of condemnation and death if they do not measure up to the perfect obedience that the law requires.
In other words you say that those like the thief, with deathbed salvation, were saved by grace, but those who live on are saved by grace providing they have evidence of works of the law.
The doctrine you follow says that God is unjust.
Under the doctrine you follow it's obvious that the thief on the cross was truly blessed with a deathbed salvation. But anyone who lives on as a Christian is at risk of condemnation and death if they do not measure up to the perfect obedience that the law requires.
In other words you say that those like the thief, with deathbed salvation, were saved by grace, but those who live on are saved by grace providing they have evidence of works of the law.
The doctrine you follow says that God is unjust.
"..faith without works is dead." james 2:26
I fully believe that if the theif was taken down from the cross and pardoned, he would have been baptized and grown in grace and would have kept the Commandments of God as well as the faith that Jesus was the Messiah.. Jesus knew this as well, or He wouldn't have promised him eternal life in His kingdom.
"If any man sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous." 1 John 2:1
"Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His Commandments." 1 John 2:3
"He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His Commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him."
I fully believe that if the theif was taken down from the cross and pardoned, he would have been baptized and grown in grace and would have kept the Commandments of God as well as the faith that Jesus was the Messiah.. Jesus knew this as well, or He wouldn't have promised him eternal life in His kingdom.
"If any man sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous." 1 John 2:1
"Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His Commandments." 1 John 2:3
"He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His Commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him."
H
And that thief obeyed God's commandment to believe in Jesus.
God's will is that we believe in Jesus, John 6:40.
Our works that shows our faith is to believe in Jesus, John 6:29.
We overcome when we believe in Jesus, 1john 5:4,5.
We are to keep this commandment to believe in Jesus with spot and blameless.
1Tim 6:12-14
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession (confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, Rom 10:9) in the presence of many witnesses. I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing
That thief knew that the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.
You cannot mix grace with works of the law, Rom 11:6.
The thief on the cross is God's example to us that we're saved by grace without the deeds of the law.
Your assumption that the thief would have obeyed the law if he lived on is just a convenient assumption in an attempt to support a false lukewarm doctrine that mixes grace with works of the law.
Also we see through your erroneous claim in regards to obedience to the law that:
"Those who reject all urgings from the Holy Spirit will eventually be destroyed"
This claim also contradict God's word as your saying that God will not forgive 7x70.
But Jesus said we are to forgive 7x70. Your claim suggests that Christians are more forgiving and loving than God is.
God's will is that we believe in Jesus, John 6:40.
Our works that shows our faith is to believe in Jesus, John 6:29.
We overcome when we believe in Jesus, 1john 5:4,5.
We are to keep this commandment to believe in Jesus with spot and blameless.
1Tim 6:12-14
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession (confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, Rom 10:9) in the presence of many witnesses. I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing
That thief knew that the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.
You cannot mix grace with works of the law, Rom 11:6.
The thief on the cross is God's example to us that we're saved by grace without the deeds of the law.
Your assumption that the thief would have obeyed the law if he lived on is just a convenient assumption in an attempt to support a false lukewarm doctrine that mixes grace with works of the law.
Also we see through your erroneous claim in regards to obedience to the law that:
"Those who reject all urgings from the Holy Spirit will eventually be destroyed"
This claim also contradict God's word as your saying that God will not forgive 7x70.
But Jesus said we are to forgive 7x70. Your claim suggests that Christians are more forgiving and loving than God is.
You might scroll back in the thread and reread where it is posted "You do not understand what WE are saying." Among other declarations you(plural) were saying was the Ten Commandments are completed, and the law is no longer. When one uses the first person plural, one must expect to be included with those he has embraced in debate. Otherwise, were you to let me know you have rescinded the first person plural in your posts, then, I will exclude you from those embraced.......It is only reasonable.
Christians are more forgiving than the Lord who created them? You must be out of your mind.
For you to say we can't mix grace and law is another ignorant comment on your behalf..
I am saved by Grace & I keep the Law becaue I love jesus.. There,, I just mixed Law with Grace, Now,,hopefully you can see how wrong you are. But,, I know you won't, anymore than Eternally grateful will admit that he has claimed the law void and we shouldn't keep it.
Believe whatever you want.. I know the end is near, when folks like you make your false claims that we should toss the law.
"It is time for you to act O Lord, for they have made void your law."
For you to say we can't mix grace and law is another ignorant comment on your behalf..
I am saved by Grace & I keep the Law becaue I love jesus.. There,, I just mixed Law with Grace, Now,,hopefully you can see how wrong you are. But,, I know you won't, anymore than Eternally grateful will admit that he has claimed the law void and we shouldn't keep it.
Believe whatever you want.. I know the end is near, when folks like you make your false claims that we should toss the law.
"It is time for you to act O Lord, for they have made void your law."
E
1. The ten commandments is fulfilled, as far as our salvation goes. Christ did it all
2. It does not mean they should not be followed after a person is born again. Failure to do so would still bring repercussions in this lifetime, but has NO bearing on our eternity
If you do not teach this. Then my comments stand. if you do. then I have misunderstood you.
2. It does not mean they should not be followed after a person is born again. Failure to do so would still bring repercussions in this lifetime, but has NO bearing on our eternity
If you do not teach this. Then my comments stand. if you do. then I have misunderstood you.
E
Dude I am sick of your false accusations. You know I have never said this. You refuse to see it, because you will not even admit this error. Your pride is so stiff, it can not be broken.
Yeah the time is near. If I was you I would live in extreme fear that you might not make it, because you messed up, and commited a sin, or sins which may not be forgiven in time.
Yeah the time is near. If I was you I would live in extreme fear that you might not make it, because you messed up, and commited a sin, or sins which may not be forgiven in time.
Speaking of the 10 Commandments, you made this amazing erroneous claim. You said:
" It does not mean they should not be followed after a person is born again. Failure to do so would still bring repercussions in this lifetime, but has NO bearing on our eternity."
Unbelievable that you would make such a claim. Under your theology, one can rob banks for a living, be a hitman for the mob, engage in any and all perverted immoral acts, worship idols and praise satan...all while claiming Jesus & Grace.,, cause,, like you said,, it may have repercussions during this lifetime,,but has no bearing on our eternity..
Your view makes sense in some regard. Looking at Television evangelists that swindle the public with acts of false healings and talking folks into handing over there life savings,,, I can see how they too would easily believe like you do... That way, they can lie and swindle during this lifetime and if they get away with it,,no repercussions down here,, and none to worry about in the afterlife either.
You teach a doctrine of a demon!
Jesus, Yeshua, has taken all responsibility for anything we have done or may do that is wrong, we are not perfect, however he does not take responsibility for our consciously breaking the commandments. Now, you may or may not have misunderstood me when I have consisitently repeated there is a major difference between the law and the commandments of Yahweh.
Or do you believe because we live in the grace of the Blood of the Lamb we are now told we may disrespect our parents, we may steal, to the tenth with impunity?
Grace is not license to lie, cheat and steal, among the other ten. I have consistently maintained this throughout this thread.
As one who is grateful for what Yeshua has done for me, the idea of believing grace is an excuse for me to trample on the Father's design for our behavior is frightening, but only frightening for any people who would follow such a theology.
The Law and the prophets are fulfilled by Yeshua, but they are by no means obsolete. Or shall we throw out the teachings of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Zecharia, Zephenia, Micah, Malachi, Obadiah, etc. and erase the two Great Laws of Love? Jesus teaches the law and the prophets hang on those two great laws, and are fulfilled in observing them. If they are with the two great laws, they are within the framework of obeying them.
The Law is Love, and God is Love. Do not think the law includes the myriad of statutes, ordinances, ceremonial and sacrificial ritualistic directions given in the first Books of the Word. The Laws or commandments that fit into the great laws of love are the only laws that may be referenced for good behavior in the sight of God. God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen.
There is no reason to fear the idea of obeying God, none.
Or do you believe because we live in the grace of the Blood of the Lamb we are now told we may disrespect our parents, we may steal, to the tenth with impunity?
Grace is not license to lie, cheat and steal, among the other ten. I have consistently maintained this throughout this thread.
As one who is grateful for what Yeshua has done for me, the idea of believing grace is an excuse for me to trample on the Father's design for our behavior is frightening, but only frightening for any people who would follow such a theology.
The Law and the prophets are fulfilled by Yeshua, but they are by no means obsolete. Or shall we throw out the teachings of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Zecharia, Zephenia, Micah, Malachi, Obadiah, etc. and erase the two Great Laws of Love? Jesus teaches the law and the prophets hang on those two great laws, and are fulfilled in observing them. If they are with the two great laws, they are within the framework of obeying them.
The Law is Love, and God is Love. Do not think the law includes the myriad of statutes, ordinances, ceremonial and sacrificial ritualistic directions given in the first Books of the Word. The Laws or commandments that fit into the great laws of love are the only laws that may be referenced for good behavior in the sight of God. God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen.
There is no reason to fear the idea of obeying God, none.
S
Fulfilled isn't about not keeping them. Fulfilled is about having kept them and then having died as the perfect lamb, taking the punishment upon Himself? That's the only question repeatedly asked here. We no longer sacrifice in order to be forgiven our sins, which by the way, are still represented by the ten commandments? You know, when we break them? As they tell us what sin is? You actually believe the time will come when it's ok to sin? Hence, to no longer be under the law means we can sin now? I don't think there's any more ways this can be explained.
There comes a time I think when everyone's simply throwing accusations and insults perhaps there's nothing left to say? I think this issue has been explained from every possible vantage point, and yet it's still not understood. This is a strange one, to me, that people can't seem to come to an agreement on this, or even understand alike at all.
There comes a time I think when everyone's simply throwing accusations and insults perhaps there's nothing left to say? I think this issue has been explained from every possible vantage point, and yet it's still not understood. This is a strange one, to me, that people can't seem to come to an agreement on this, or even understand alike at all.