Is Hell a Physical Place?

[Michael50]

I can't debate with you if you are going to fall back on old testament types and shadows for literal interpretation.
Please find the references in the New Testament that I showed another at post #72.
Look up and answer those, then we can debate (I'm not going spoon feed them to you).

LOL,, so,, you are a Bible rejecter? You reject the scripture if they came from the Old Testement? You do realize that everything that Jesus quoted, came from the Old Testament, don't you? Do you toss everything Jesus said too?

Perhaps you can tell Jesus that you ain't spoon feeding Him either. I believe the Bible,, it seems you only believe half of it, and because you only believe half of it,, you are a victim of false doctrine.

 

[homwardbound]

In my opinion, the whole doctrine of eternal torment is a total misunderstanding of scriptures. I had these same questions and reviewed all the different views until I found one that actually makes sense and I believe fits scriptures in its entirety. I believe there will be a judgement, and after that judgement, all those not written in the lambs book of life together with the devil and his angels will go into the all-consuming fire that will cleanse the whole earth. And they'll burn up. They will be ashes beneath our feet, just like scripture says.

The enemy gains many a people by this thinking you just used, as in well you are just going to burn up be in ashes so you will not know, so let's play
See the trickery here, just as the Enemy used the fact that we are forgiven 100% forever by God through Christ on the Corinthians, why not go and have your way with that other person, you are forgiven so go ahead and eat all the food, drink all the wine, it does not matter if you harm others because you are forgiven. And the Corinthians fell into this trap.
So Paul wrote them to straighten out their carnality and had to put them under law, in hopes they would learn through te Law that they need God, they were still carnal and needed a Tutor, the Law to show us and there need for God the Savior, only found through Christ.
And in 2 Corinthians it is shown that they had a change of heart with a Godly sorrow in place of the worldly one. 2 Cor. 7

Hell is real and is eternal torment and a deserving eternal torment for all, but by God's amazing grace I see not to take it for granted
Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

 

[homwardbound]

Eccl 3:14 What ever God doeth it is forever. The wrath of God is eternal. The destruction on sin, death and hell will be eternal. The suffering of those who are condemned is indeed eternal. The smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and for ever. Rev 14:11
God's righteousness demands full satisfaction in judgment. Do not underestimate the severity of His wrath upon sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You know and I am Elated that Christ took it all at the cross not only for me but the whole world, and not yet all see this truth that it is done John 19:30, just waiting for more to come to belief and be settled in this amazing gift, done by Christ for us, have received this and respond to God in the utmost thankfulness and praises each day as each day arrives. All Glory to God

 

[homwardbound]

[SUP]Mark 9: 41-50 [/SUP]For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin,[SUP][a][/SUP] it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. [SUP]43 [/SUP]And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell,[SUP][b][/SUP] to the unquenchable fire.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]45 [/SUP]And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. [SUP]47 [/SUP]And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, [SUP]48 [/SUP]‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ [SUP]49 [/SUP]For everyone will be salted with fire.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]50 [/SUP]Salt is good, but if the salt has lost its saltiness, how will you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.”

This doesn't say anything about hell fire burning conscious sinners for eternity. Unquenchable means it cannot be put out. Scriptures say what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah represents what will happen to the earth on judgment day.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all (Lk. 17:28-29).

2 Peter 2:6 Later, God condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and turned them into heaps of ashes. He made them an example of what will happen to ungodly people.

Christ also went to these Spirits in prison and preached to them and those that chose belief went him to Heaven saved from wrath. He took captivity captive, and took the keys of Heaven and Hell away from the Devil. So let's see where they burned up completely, flesh yes, Spirit no, otherwise this could not have been done.
[h=3]1 Peter 3:18-20[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

[Michael50]

The enemy gains many a people by this thinking you just used, as in well you are just going to burn up be in ashes so you will not know, so let's play
See the trickery here, just as the Enemy used the fact that we are forgiven 100% forever by God through Christ on the Corinthians, why not go and have your way with that other person, you are forgiven so go ahead and eat all the food, drink all the wine, it does not matter if you harm others because you are forgiven. And the Corinthians fell into this trap.
So Paul wrote them to straighten out their carnality and had to put them under law, in hopes they would learn through te Law that they need God, they were still carnal and needed a Tutor, the Law to show us and there need for God the Savior, only found through Christ.
And in 2 Corinthians it is shown that they had a change of heart with a Godly sorrow in place of the worldly one. 2 Cor. 7

Hell is real and is eternal torment and a deserving eternal torment for all, but by God's amazing grace I see not to take it for granted
Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Homward,,,being kept alive in an eternal torture chamber for eternity is no just punishment for a few years of sin.

God is Just! The punishment must fit the crime, otherwise God would be a torturer, evil and exacting and mean,,, all attributes of Satan!

Bible is clear!!!! The wicked are obliterated!!!

The Bible say the wicked suffer "death" (Romans 6:23), will suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "Burn" up (Malachi 4:1), "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3). God will "destroy them" (Psalm 145:20), and "fire shall devour them" (Psalm 21:9).

Note that all of these references make it clear that the wicked die and are destroyed. They do not live forever in misery!

God is Merciful, even to the wicked!

 

[homwardbound]

I really don't think God is going to be mad forever. The results are permanent. Yeah. People instantly jump to the conclusion if people don't burn in never-ending torment, they won't be punished. I'd sure hate to see Jesus come and judge the whole earth, know I'd rejected Him and would not receive eternal life and then be thrown into the lake of fire. Thank you very much. lol.

I see God's Mercy does go on forever, now if I, you or anyone continues to harm others without a care to get things for themselves here and now, yet claim to believe will not inherit the gift that they masquerade as having
And one's reaction to this amazing grace, their fruit from it had be better that the Pharisees of Christ's day here on earth. For Prostitutes, and Tax Collectors will enter in as they believed, where as these religious fanatics acted as if they were the way, the truth and the life to God, and nothing is new under the sun, still goes on today. God just loves us all, can't we just respond to this and thank God and ask God what God wants us to do. And I see this as LOVE God's type 1 Cor. 13:4-13
And all will know and have had the chance consciously to make their free choice knowingly, so at that day of Judgment no matter what all man will and is without excuse. God can not be blamed, not when God has poured out God's Love to all mankind through his Son Christ, we are first forgiven 100% and then we are made alive in the Spirit of God by the resurrected Christ. No Hell for those that believe God did it all and those that do not see this for now that do believe God will see this and know this by God being one's teacher not mankind
Just sharing truth that supersedes Hell

 

[homwardbound]

OK there is no hell and no ones going to hell and we all get saved in end so lets all just fornicate and get drunk, steal whatever we like and have a good time, after all there is no hell and we all get saved....

Of course if you want to have a good time and ignore God and remove guilty feelings, then sure go ahead and convince yourself hell is not real.

Jesus, being in him came to take away that guilt trip that you just stated, by dying on the cross for you, me and the whole world, to put our trust in his finished work, that we are forgiven by him, and there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood, thus we see God the Father's gift of life to us after the death and receive new life born again in the Spirit of God, through the already resurrected Christ, by god's Mercy one has escaped Hell, if one will believe, they will see and thus receive
All God and none of man's doing ever. This is love by God that can't be ever taken away, only one can refuse to believe in the Mercy of God by Christ the Son

 

[RickShafer]

Good grief.
"And the smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up forever and ever, and they have no rest day or night,
who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name." Rev. 14:11

 

[homwardbound]

Might want to show your real age then,.......it tends to help your testimony to be truthful.

For me I am so old that I was the servant at the last supper HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! good one yes? I heard this from an 8 year old, shut me up and caused me to think, even though it is a Joke

 

[homwardbound]

True, but cannot God chose a place(relational) where His Love is void?

Oh and I think God did do that at the garden of Eden until the time appointed where Christ was to come here die and be risen again
God put a Cherubim at the entrance back to the garden with a flaming sword for no one to be able to enter and eat from the tree of life at that time, now Christ is that tree of life everlasting

 

[Radius]

Michael uses an awful lot of OT verses. ALL of the Bible is good and useful for teaching/rebuking etc., don't get me wrong, but the NT really hashes out what we need to focus on concerning Salvation at this stage in time and spells out clearly the demise of the unbelievers--those without Christ--quite clearly.

 

[homwardbound]

Ok. The "I say unto you today you will be in paradise with Me."

This is the way this quote would appear written in Greek. Do you see the difference? No COMMA. There were not commas used in Greek. With no comma, the entire meaning could change to "I say unto you today-- you will be in paradise with Me."

Jesus was not in paradise that day. Jesus was in the tomb. Now if you're going to say He was heaven, then why did Jesus say to Mary "don't touch me. I have not yet ascended to my Father?" That was after the resurrection that Jesus said this.

There is a difference in Body, Flesh and Spirit. Adam and Eve lost the Spirit life when they ate from that tree, and were alive in the flesh as all men are when born here on this earth, except Christ Jesus who was born of Mary, being a Virgin, Jesus was born a life -giving Spirit which is what all mankind is in need of, to be born again and this is given to us through the resurrected Christ, after the death took away the sin issue.
The flesh that was perfect that took on death for all flesh had not yet ascended and is why Christ said what Christ said to her. There was the need for him, his resurrected pure Body to be put on the throne as the final sacrifice for life to be given for those that believe God

 

[homwardbound]

LOL,, so,, you are a Bible rejecter? You reject the scripture if they came from the Old Testement? You do realize that everything that Jesus quoted, came from the Old Testament, don't you? Do you toss everything Jesus said too?

Perhaps you can tell Jesus that you ain't spoon feeding Him either. I believe the Bible,, it seems you only believe half of it, and because you only believe half of it,, you are a victim of false doctrine.

Tell me this is not the second Testament the fulfillment of the first Testament? Is this not what Christ came here to do was put us back on track of God's Love and Mercy. Yes using first Testament scripture of the Law and Prophets and stirring us to the Love and Mercy of God that God has shown from day one to Adam and Eve, clothing them.
Now did not the first chosen overlook the greatest of the Law which actually all along were and are the laws of Love the first To love God with all one has got, and the second their neighbor as themselves. Which Christ went deeper that one's neighbor as himself to as Christ love you.
Okay I tried to do these two laws of love, and just couldn't until I saw how deep God does love all, that he sent his Son for us all, so I today Love God with God has given me through the cross of his beloved Son Christ
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

So the ? is how deep and far is this love, and as anyone sees this and does not see it as endless then that one only loves as deep as they think that God loves them. So does God love conditionally or unconditionally? The response to love is abiding in the answer of conditional or unconditional

 

[homwardbound]

Homward,,,being kept alive in an eternal torture chamber for eternity is no just punishment for a few years of sin.

God is Just! The punishment must fit the crime, otherwise God would be a torturer, evil and exacting and mean,,, all attributes of Satan!

Bible is clear!!!! The wicked are obliterated!!!

The Bible say the wicked suffer "death" (Romans 6:23), will suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "Burn" up (Malachi 4:1), "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3). God will "destroy them" (Psalm 145:20), and "fire shall devour them" (Psalm 21:9).

Note that all of these references make it clear that the wicked die and are destroyed. They do not live forever in misery!

God is Merciful, even to the wicked!

oh Yes and this Mercy final is shown to us all at the cross where he took away the sin of the world for all at the death,
And left one thing left to either believe and receive new life in the Spirit of God by the resurrected Christ or go on with our bad selves being God in the flesh as what is what happened to Adam and Eve, They became alive in the flesh and by flesh and blood one is selfish to themselves, not alive to God.
The fight remains either one is of the flesh or of the Spirit of God. I see no other way to slice, dice and or cube this truth.
[h=3]John 10:10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

[h=3]Galatians 5:16-26[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

[RickShafer]

Yea, everything Jesus said was quoting the O.T.
- Like the rich man and the beggar-(No O.T.) , plenty of hell though. - Luke 16:20-25
And the 5 times He said there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when the evil servants are cast into the furnace or outer darkness. (No O.T)
Honestly. Think about it:
Who weeps when they are on fire, consumed with flames? It take time that the physical body would not have before it was consumed and therefore expired.

 

[notuptome]

Michael uses an awful lot of OT verses. ALL of the Bible is good and useful for teaching/rebuking etc., don't get me wrong, but the NT really hashes out what we need to focus on concerning Salvation at this stage in time and spells out clearly the demise of the unbelievers--those without Christ--quite clearly.

There is nothing wrong with using OT verses if they are used correctly. One cannot use the OT to set at naught the NT. Christ cited the OT and confirmed it's authenticity. The apostles used the OT to preach Christ as there was no written NT at the time. We must view the NT as a light revealing that which the shadows of the OT had obscured.
Hell is such a terrible place that men rightly fear it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Shiloah]

Homward,,,being kept alive in an eternal torture chamber for eternity is no just punishment for a few years of sin.

God is Just! The punishment must fit the crime, otherwise God would be a torturer, evil and exacting and mean,,, all attributes of Satan!

Bible is clear!!!! The wicked are obliterated!!!

The Bible say the wicked suffer "death" (Romans 6:23), will suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "Burn" up (Malachi 4:1), "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3). God will "destroy them" (Psalm 145:20), and "fire shall devour them" (Psalm 21:9).

Note that all of these references make it clear that the wicked die and are destroyed. They do not live forever in misery!

God is Merciful, even to the wicked!

Thank you Michael. Forgive me. I become frustrated with this subject and often find I must withdraw so I don't get angry and then say things I later regret. The reasoning that supports the eternal never-ending torment concept, and yes, you might as well say eternal torture chamber concept to me is so impossibly bizarre and not scriptural, and at the very worst, suggestive of an unjust God. What's so strange is that I feel the belief that there will be a punishment that involves being rightly judged and thrown into hellfire that will consume..... the wicked.... and they will be gone.... ashes beneath our feet... makes such perfect sense! And I repeat the scriptures that show this so many times, yet people totally ignore, or don't see the meaning, or something! I don't know! See, I get so frustrated. It's nice when others who share my belief come in and give a much better explanation than I do and don't get frustrated in the process. Hahaha!!

 

[Michael50]

Yea, everything Jesus said was quoting the O.T.
- Like the rich man and the beggar-(No O.T.) , plenty of hell though. - Luke 16:20-25
And the 5 times He said there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when the evil servants are cast into the furnace or outer darkness. (No O.T)
Honestly. Think about it:
Who weeps when they are on fire, consumed with flames? It take time that the physical body would not have before it was consumed and therefore expired.

I have given you Malachi 4:1-3. The wicked become ashes. You reject Malachi.

I have given you Ezekiel 28:18,19 Satan turned to ash and is no more. You reject Ezekiel

The rich man and Lazarus is a parable. Surely you don't believe someone dipping their finger in water and touching another persons tongue in "Hades" will bring relief, do you?

If you believe Lazarus and the Beggar is a true story then you must also believe that trees talk!!!! See the parable in Judges 9:8-15.

Weeping and gnashing of teeth: Think about it,,, that will be the disposition of those who come to realize the consequences of their decision to trample on Gods Holy Law and to reject His Mercy offered to us through His son, Jesus.

They will surely cringe at the realization of their actions as well as cry.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth occurs before the fire falls on them and devours them. "Every knee shall bow".. Even the wicked will admit that they are wrong and God is just in His dealing with them! Then they are destroyed.

When this occurs, the Saints are safe inside the Holy City Jerusalem. Outside the City is where the wicked are,, Satan will marshal them to surround it. Outside the city is referred to as "outer darkness".

You may not believe what I say,, but hopefully, someone will.

 

[Shiloah]

Yea, everything Jesus said was quoting the O.T.
- Like the rich man and the beggar-(No O.T.) , plenty of hell though. - Luke 16:20-25
And the 5 times He said there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when the evil servants are cast into the furnace or outer darkness. (No O.T)
Honestly. Think about it:
Who weeps when they are on fire, consumed with flames? It take time that the physical body would not have before it was consumed and therefore expired.

Rick, I imagine if I were judged and had no savior, and beheld Him with my own eyes, and KNEW I was guilty and had lost my chance to forever be with that person beyond imagining, I would be weeping and wailing and gnashing my teeth long before I ever even got thrown into that fire.

 

[Shiloah]

I have given you Malachi 4:1-3. The wicked become ashes. You reject Malachi.
4 [SUP][a][/SUP]“Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them. [SUP]2 [/SUP]But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. And you will go out and frolic like well-fed calves. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the Lord Almighty.

I have given you Ezekiel 28:18,19 Satan turned to ash and is no more. You reject Ezekiel
By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’”

The rich man and Lazarus is a parable. Surely you don't believe someone dipping their finger in water and touching another persons tongue in "Hades" will bring relief, do you?

If you believe Lazarus and the Beggar is a true story then you must also believe that trees talk!!!! See the parable in Judges 9:8-15.

Weeping and gnashing of teeth: Think about it,,, that will be the disposition of those who come to realize the consequences of their decision to trample on Gods Holy Law and to reject His Mercy offered to us through His son, Jesus.

They will surely cringe at the realization of their actions as well as cry.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth occurs before the fire falls on them and devours them. "Every knee shall bow".. Even the wicked will admit that they are wrong and God is just in His dealing with them! Then they are destroyed.

When this occurs, the Saints are safe inside the Holy City Jerusalem. Outside the City is where the wicked are,, Satan will marshal them to surround it. Outside the city is referred to as "outer darkness".

You may not believe what I say,, but hopefully, someone will.

Thanks yet again, Michael. I should have looked up to see your new post. You said it better. I just threw in those verses you suggested because they're so good.