First off,, you are the one that is questioning where we shall go once Jesus appears and we meet Him in the air.
Brother Michael, i have not questioned where we shall go once Jesus appears and we meet Him in the air. i KNOW what will happen when Jesus comes the second time, He will come and with Him He is bringing the New City Jerusalem that He has prepared for us, When He comes The dead and alive saints will be taken up into the Sky Where He is, and we will follow Him to the New City Jerusalem which came down with Him. This is what God has told me in conversation, and seen in visions from God, so i would not be asking where we will go when He returns to take the Church, i KNOW what He told me concerning this.
You then disagreed with what i said, and then proceeded to explain what you believe to be where we go at the Rapture and made a comment that you have Scriptures to support all that you believe. i challenged this statement, by asking you to show Scriptures that support your belief that we go to Heaven at the time of the Rapture. i am not questioning where we go, i KNOW where we will go, i am asking you to show Scriptures that support what you say will happen at the time of the Rapture. Namely that we go to Heaven. That was question one, there are five other questions that you say you have Scriptural support for, So far we have not got past question one, if you would like let us skip it, and go to question two.
Does God the Father appear with Jesus in the clouds as the 2nd Coming? No. God the Father is obviously in His "dwelling place"
"O lord my God...hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place." ( 1 Kings 8:28-30)
Who said anything about God the Father showing up with Jesus in the clouds at the second coming? How is that brought into this topic? In the time before the Holy City was created, the Father dwelled in the Temple which was in Heaven. After Jesus prepared the Holy City, the Father then dwells in the Holy City. When Christ returns, the holy City will be with Him, and in that City will be the Father. Wherever the Father is, is where the Kingdom of Heaven is.
Jesus went back to heaven,, when He ascended. If He went to present Himself to His Father,, and His sacrifice seems GOOD to His Father,,, and Jesus builds a city,,, Don't you think it stands to reason,, that Jesus would ask His Father if those that the Father gave to Him,, might be with Him in the presence of the Father too!
yes very reasonable, and is True. As i said before when Jesus Raptures the Church to be with Him, the New City Jerusalem is with Him, and in that Holy City is the Father. When we are taken up to meet Jesus in the Sky, we follow Him to the Holy City which came down with Him. and there we will have our mansions and live inside the Holy City, in the presence of Jesus and His Father, so yes you are correct.
Floating around in the air for 1000 years makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever!
lol, that would be entirely correct if that is what is to happen, that is absurd, lol. NO, for a thousand years we live in the Holy City, ON EARTH ruling the nations of the entire world with Jesus Christ. Many prophesies confirm this.
The Garden of Eden is in heaven, God the Father resides in heaven. The Ark of the covenant that contains the 2 stones with the 10 commandments that God wrote with His finger are there as well. As is the Tree of Life. As is the Holy City Jerusalem!
oh my, you have many beliefs that are not supported by Scriptures don't you? God the Father resides, not in Heaven but according to Scriptures He resides in the Temple. The Temple is currently in Heaven, so yes that is True, right now, the Father resides in Heaven, but when the Holy City is built the Father will reside there, and the Father will be where the Holy City will be. Please read Revelation Chapter 21, which describes the Holy City, With the Father in it, being on the EARTH. If then according to Rev 21 the Holy City has the Father, and the Holy City is on Earth, then how can the Father be in Heaven at THAT time, when He is in the City, which is on the EARTH?
I have no doubt that we go to heaven...to meet God the Father! "if I go to prepare a place" Doesn't that phrase in itself, explain that Jesus will bring us to that place that he has prepared?
That is one interpretation of that verse, it could also mean, that if Jesus goes to prepare a place for us, that He will bring it with Him when He Returns. That would work as well would it not? Now that belief is supported by Scriptures, for Scriptures plainly teach that the Holy City will have the Father in it, Rev 21, that the Holy City will be on Earth, many verses. AND that the Holy City is ON EARTH at a time when there are still sinners present, who will not be allowed to enter into that Holy City, many verses confirm that as well.
i like you have no doubt that we will meet the Father, and we will follow Jesus to do that. The difference is you believe that will occur in Heaven, and i know it will be on Earth in the New City Jerusalem, where we will meet the Father, and rule the nations of the world with Jesus Christ.
This is all elementary to me.
Brother Michael, i am not trying to change what you believe, you are entitled to believe as you want to believe. i posted what i believe (know) will happen, you then disagreed with me, and said it is just easier for me to tell you what i believe. then you told what you believed, and said that you have Scriptural support of all that you believe. i then challenged that, KNOWING that there is no Scriptural support that teaches we go to Heaven at the Rapture, even though that is a common worldly belief. And now that you can't find any Scriptural proof is seems to me, and i could be very wrong, that you have changed in your writing demeanor. It almost sounds like you are upset, as to your writing before sounded like you were willing to have an intelligent conversation. It seems to me, that after reviewing the five questions you realized that you do not have Scriptural support for them, and therefore you are now done discussing it logically. i could be wrong though.
If I build a house,,, do i bring that house to my Family? Or do I bring my Family to the house I built? I do believe the latter applies.
True, if the house is not mobile. True if it is built on an unmovable foundation. But that logic is not True if something is built that can be moved. For example, i build a mobile home,,,, do i bring that mobile home to my Family? Sure i can, IT IS MOBILE. Isn't the New City Jerusalem a MOBILE City? So Jesus could build it, and bring it to us here on Earth. And the Truth of the matter is, Scriptures teach that is exactly what He will do, prophesies in the old Testament teach that as well. It is plainly written that the New City Jerusalem will come out of Heaven to the EArth
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
So we know that the Holy City will come down to Earth, right? We just disagree on the WHEN it will come down, right?
God made the city mobile, so He can bring it to us, bring it to the Earth. He did not build it to remain in Heaven, that we the saints would go to it in Heaven, He built it to bring the Holy City to the Earth for His Saints.
What point would be made by having the Saints rise into the clouds, if we weren't going to travel somewhere?
Are you not listening to what i have been saying, we do travel somewhere, we follow Jesus to the Holy City, and will be with Him for ever and ever, no matter where He is at in the Universe. And at the time of the Rapture, we meet Him in the air, in the clouds, it the sky. and follow Him to the Holy City which will be over the middle-east, and there we will stay with Him and meet the Father as well, for the Father is in the Holy City. And out of the Holy City we will reign over the nations of the Earth. All this is supported by Scriptures, and is revealed through prophesies in the Old Testament.
I believe you think the 1000 year reign will be spent on the earth. And if you do,, we should move on to that,,, because I will show you that the earth will be in quite the same condition as it was before God organized the Earth by Creation. Void of all human life. A planet in such a disturbed condition that no human life could live on it.
So then we are done discussing the five question i presented which you say you have support for. Why would we discuss yet another topic, which again has no Scriptural support, i already know the Scriptures you will use and INTERPRET them to mean what you want them to mean, to support your own belief. When i ask you to show support for you belief, when you can't do so, will we change to another topic?
I hesitate to say this,,, but I will...... I am getting a strong inclination that you believe Jesus is also a creation. Am I correct? Do you believe Jesus was created?
Yet another topic?
i thought you said it would be easier to discuss one thing at a time, it appears we were doing exactly that, but now we are discussing none of them, but bringing up other topics.
Six verses teaches that Jesus is the only begotten of the Father, what does that tell you? Seriously, explain what it means to be the only begotten son of the Father. Ask a 10 year old what does it mean to be the only begotten son, and they will get it right, leave it to this generation who will try to find some kind of hidden meaning, or mystical meaning, or think they have to be learned and study Hebrew and Greek in order to understand the Word of God. Children can understand and grasp the Word of God, leave it to men to corrupt even the simplest things in the Word to fit their own beliefs, instead of changing their belief to fit the Scriptures and what they plainly say and teach, they will change the meaning of the Scriptures by interpretations to fit there own beliefs.
Tell me do you think Jesus created Himself?
^i^