Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

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Shiloah

Guest
I agree. An eternal fire, by definition is one that burns for ages and ages. It is not a fire that goes out in an hour or even a day. Here is how other translations have put it:

KJV "7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

NASB "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh,are exhibited as an example in under going the punishment of eternal fire."

NLT "And don’t forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God’s judgment."

NIV "7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."


It seems to me that they did not get annihilated by an eternal fire, but were punished with out end by an eternal fire.
If scripture says that the "eternal fire" that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is an example of the fire that will destroy the earth after the last judgement, it stands to reason that "eternal" in that sense means unquenchable since the Sodom and Gomorrah fire is obviously not still burning. So the final judgement "hellfire" will be unquenchable. Nothing can put it out until everything is consumed. It has to go out at some point, or the new earth couldn't be created. Again, if Sodom and Gomorrah serves as an example of the final fire that consumes the earth, then once everything is consumed, it obviously goes out. That's why the enemies of God will be ashes beneath our feet, just like scripture says.
 
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notconformed2theworld

Guest
The bible does say that hell is located in the center of earth. And what is at the center of earth? Fire....burning limestone, so hell is real and eternal punishment is as true as God parting the red sea. If you have any doubt about heaven or hell its probably the devil that is making you believe that hell is not the way it is in the bible. He does the samething to me and to everyone else.
 
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The bible does say that hell is located in the center of earth. And what is at the center of earth? Fire....burning limestone, so hell is real and eternal punishment is as true as God parting the red sea. If you have any doubt about heaven or hell its probably the devil that is making you believe that hell is not the way it is in the bible. He does the samething to me and to everyone else.
How rediculous.
 
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danschance

Guest
The wicked are destroyed. Some folks will burn up quickly and die. Others will linger on longer, depending on their sins. Satan, will burn longer than anybody. He has inflenced everybody to commit sins. So Satan will burn for quite sometime before death brings an end to his punishment.

So don't think that folsk are gettin away with anything.. Each wicked person will pay for each and evey sin they have comitted.

Then,,, they die,,, Psalms 37:20 says,,, "But the wicked shall perish, the enemies of the Lord,, shall vanish, into smoke they shall vanish away." And they will be no more.
Where in the bible does it say people will burn a certain length of time according to how wicked they are?
 
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Shiloah

Guest
If that's your understanding on the term firstborn, i.e, firstly resurrected. then surely you should explain about Elijah who ressurected the son of zarepath, Elisha who resurrected the son of the Shunammite, A dead man comes back to life by being touched to the Elisha's bones (from 1 and 2 Kings) and Jesus resurrected a son at Nain (Luke), Jairus' daughter (matthew), Lazarus (John), Many saints resurrected (matthew 27).
To me, the title Christ to be Firstborn, is just as also used in Colossians 1, that He holds higher rank over all created things, most exalted one, pre eminent and head above all others.
When Elijah resurrected the dead boy, the boy did not "put on immortality" like the resurrection we will experience when we are raised from the dead. The boy was not "changed" as we will be when Christ comes.
 
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danschance

Guest

Michael read this:


“(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)” (Eph. 4:9-10)

What does "
descended first into the lower parts of the earth" mean to you?
 
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Shiloah

Guest
The bible does say that hell is located in the center of earth. And what is at the center of earth? Fire....burning limestone, so hell is real and eternal punishment is as true as God parting the red sea. If you have any doubt about heaven or hell its probably the devil that is making you believe that hell is not the way it is in the bible. He does the samething to me and to everyone else.
The grave is "in the earth." Again and again, I can't believe all the verses that say that when a man dies, his thoughts and plans die and he returns to the dust. I can't believe all the verses that simply use the words die or perish rather than saying man descends into eternal torment. People who WANT to believe in an eternal torture chamber do so in spite of all the contradictory scriptures and everything else shown to them. They would prefer not only to believe that the Bible contradicts itself massively, they also choose to ignore all the verses that say things like "the soul that sins shall die" as well as believe that God is a tyrannical sadist.
 
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Michael read this:


“(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)” (Eph. 4:9-10)

What does "
descended first into the lower parts of the earth" mean to you?
To me,, it means that Jesus descended from heaven,,,an died on a cross and was in the grave for 3 days. And that this same Jesus ascended back to the throne of God. Thus fulfilling all prophecy spoken about Him.
 
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danschance

Guest
To me,, it means that Jesus descended from heaven,,,an died on a cross and was in the grave for 3 days. And that this same Jesus ascended back to the throne of God. Thus fulfilling all prophecy spoken about Him.

Soooo.... You're going to simply ignore what it says about "descending into the lower parts of the Earth" mean?
 
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notconformed2theworld

Guest
U ever notice how I never respond to you Michael... Cuz I'm letting God deal with ur 7th day beliefs...
All in the bible it teaches punishment...everlasting chains...and unquenching fire, unquenchable means it will never go out....so idk who teaching u what u believe but its wrong dude...and I'll be out of Gods will if I say your right. So persecute me if you want but I'm telling the truth man. I don't come to you with cunningly devised fables.
 
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Soooo.... You're going to simply ignore what it says about "descending into the lower parts of the Earth" mean?
I believe the grave itself refers to the lower parts of the earth.

dan,, you know the Bible says the dead know nothing. You know there is no such place as a mans chest where we all gather (abrahams bosom). You know someone dipping their finger in some water and touching anothers persons tongues isn't gonna bring any relief. You know the Bible says the wicked shall surround the Holy City. You know the Bible says the wicked will become ash. you know the Bible says Satan himself will become ash.

Yet,,you hold on to the false teaching that the dead are alive and aware,,, even though dozens of scriptures have been presented to you.

Gods plan is to isolate, eradicate and blot out sin and sinners from Him universe.

You think God will tolerate sin and sinners forever.

You have dismissed God when He declared that he would keep man from eating from the tree of life lest he live forever......

Your theology says God is wrong,, that man lives on, that we have no need to eat from the tree of life.

And strangley enough,, ol Satan says the same thing: "Ye shall not surely die."
 
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U ever notice how I never respond to you Michael... Cuz I'm letting God deal with ur 7th day beliefs...
All in the bible it teaches punishment...everlasting chains...and unquenching fire, unquenchable means it will never go out....so idk who teaching u what u believe but its wrong dude...and I'll be out of Gods will if I say your right. So persecute me if you want but I'm telling the truth man. I don't come to you with cunningly devised fables.
Nope,, I never noticed. But,,, if you are letting God deal with me,,, why are you now, getting between me and God? Is God failing,, so you decided to step in?

By the way,, unquenchable means the fire is not put out.

If your house catches on fire the fire department comes and quenches the fire. Which means they put out the fire.

The fire that consumes the wicked,, will not be put out,, it will burn, until it consumes all there is to consume. Then it goes out. That's why, all that's left of Satan and the wicked are ashes. Ezekiel 28:18,19. Malachi 4:3
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
When Elijah resurrected the dead boy, the boy did not "put on immortality" like the resurrection we will experience when we are raised from the dead. The boy was not "changed" as we will be when Christ comes.
well this is explained in another verses and context not in the terms firstborn that mentioned in Romans which was quoted by him or Colossians quoted by me
 
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Laodicea

Guest
U ever notice how I never respond to you Michael... Cuz I'm letting God deal with ur 7th day beliefs...
All in the bible it teaches punishment...everlasting chains...and unquenching fire, unquenchable means it will never go out....so idk who teaching u what u believe but its wrong dude...and I'll be out of Gods will if I say your right. So persecute me if you want but I'm telling the truth man. I don't come to you with cunningly devised fables.
Jeremiah 17:27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

This is talking about the destruction of Jerusalem at the time of Babylon, it says it shall burn and not be quenched yet the fire went out.
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
To me,, it means that Jesus descended from heaven,,,an died on a cross and was in the grave for 3 days. And that this same Jesus ascended back to the throne of God. Thus fulfilling all prophecy spoken about Him.
this time i agree with michael50
 
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danschance

Guest
I believe the grave itself refers to the lower parts of the earth.

dan,, you know the Bible says the dead know nothing. You know there is no such place as a mans chest where we all gather (abrahams bosom). You know someone dipping their finger in some water and touching anothers persons tongues isn't gonna bring any relief. You know the Bible says the wicked shall surround the Holy City. You know the Bible says the wicked will become ash. you know the Bible says Satan himself will become ash.

Yet,,you hold on to the false teaching that the dead are alive and aware,,, even though dozens of scriptures have been presented to you.

Gods plan is to isolate, eradicate and blot out sin and sinners from Him universe.

You think God will tolerate sin and sinners forever.

You have dismissed God when He declared that he would keep man from eating from the tree of life lest he live forever......

Your theology says God is wrong,, that man lives on, that we have no need to eat from the tree of life.

And strangely enough,, ol Satan says the same thing: "Ye shall not surely die."
I believe the grave itself refers to the lower parts of the earth.
OK, so you think "lower parts of the earth" = 6 feet deep.

As for me, I believe it is the location Lazarus the beggar and the rich man went.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
You know the Bible teaches that Jesus will raise the wicked. That satan will marshal them to encompass the Holy City Jerusalem.
I understand that Jesus will raise both the wicked and the righteous at the same time for judgment. But, as to the "resurrected wicked" being a part of Satan's attack on Jerusalem and the saints, I have never heard of such. If this is the case, then would not the "resurrected righteous" also be a part of Jerusalem's and the saints' defense? Nowhere are we told of such a thing. But, we are told that when Jerusalem is surrounded, fire shall come down from God out of Heaven and devour those who come up against the saints and the City.

If you would, look at Rev 20:8. It does not tell us that the wicked dead will be resurrected in order to be warriors for Satan. But, it does tell us that Satan will go out into all the NATIONS (abodes for the living, as oppose to Hades) and deceive them to war against the City and Saints.

But then again, I must ask myself, what part does the resurrected dead play during God's great Day? For the life of me, I cannot see them playing a part when we are told they are raised for judgment. It is a hard matter to imagine that all the dead will rise to battle and not judgment.

It is not until Rev 20:12 (after Satan, the beast, the false prophet are thrown in the lake of fire) that the dead are risen. How then can they play a part in the final battle?

That God causes fire to fall on them and devour them.

The Saints are safe inside the Holy City, while the wicked are outside being reduced to ashes.

After the fire consumes all there is to consume,,,, until there is nothing left but ash,,,then,, the fire will go out.
If they are consumed, then how are they (Satan, false prophet, the beast) thrown into a lake of fire where their torment is "day and night, forever and ever"? Even if the wicked dead are resurrected to battle in the final war and are then totally consumed by fire, how is it that they are thrown into the lake of fire in Rev 20:15 if they are consumed in the final battle?

Are you saying that they will be resurrected then be consumed by fire and resurrected again to be thrown in the lake of fire?

Then God will make a New Earth.

He will do that, while we are safe inside the Holy City,, watching it all!
Michael,

Your hope for God's coming Kingdom will not be misplaced, knowing that it is the faith we place in the Son which shall deliver us into the new Kingdom. Beloved, hold on to that hope of Christ's victory, for He alone shall deliver us.

God's plan is to isolate, eradicate, and blot out sin and sinners from existence forever!

if you think God's plan is to keep sin alive so that His universe is always tainted with evil... then you are sadly mistaken.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

As pertaining to the second death:

2Th 1:9: it is an everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.

Mar 9:44, 46, 48 Where their worm never (absolute negative) dies and the fire (God's wrath) is never (absolute negative) quenched. (note the absence of a qualifying negative. That is, this verse is not spoken in the subjunctive, and by which, giving us a possibility of an end. No. It is absolute, no possibilities of it being anything different.)

Does not Rev 19:20 tell us that they who would receive the mark of the beast will be thrown ALIVE into the lake of fire?

Did you catch that my friend: ALIVE!!!!!!
 
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I believe the grave itself refers to the lower parts of the earth.
OK, so you think "lower parts of the earth" = 6 feet deep.

As for me, I believe it is the location Lazarus the beggar and the rich man went.

I understand you do.. You have to.. Just like you have to dismiss all of the scriptures that says the dead know nothing, that there is no knowledge in the grave, that the dead cannot cummunicate with the living,,ect...

I don't have those scriptural dilemmas that you have. A parable is not a true story. Because you believe Satans first lie ( Ye shall not surely die) you believe that the wages of sin is eternal life in some flames,,, even though,, you know, that the wicked shall surround the Holy City Jerusalem,, and fire shall fall on them,,, yet you somehow dismiss it all, and hold tight to your lie that the dead are alive.
 
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I understand that Jesus will raise both the wicked and the righteous at the same time for judgment. But, as to the "resurrected wicked" being a part of Satan's attack on Jerusalem and the saints, I have never heard of such. If this is the case, then would not the "resurrected righteous" also be a part of Jerusalem's and the saints' defense? Nowhere are we told of such a thing. But, we are told that when Jerusalem is surrounded, fire shall come down from God out of Heaven and devour those who come up against the saints and the City.

If you would, look at Rev 20:8. It does not tell us that the wicked dead will be resurrected in order to be warriors for Satan. But, it does tell us that Satan will go out into all the NATIONS (abodes for the living, as oppose to Hades) and deceive them to war against the City and Saints.

But then again, I must ask myself, what part does the resurrected dead play during God's great Day? For the life of me, I cannot see them playing a part when we are told they are raised for judgment. It is a hard matter to imagine that all the dead will rise to battle and not judgment.

It is not until Rev 20:12 (after Satan, the beast, the false prophet are thrown in the lake of fire) that the dead are risen. How then can they play a part in the final battle?



If they are consumed, then how are they (Satan, false prophet, the beast) thrown into a lake of fire where their torment is "day and night, forever and ever"? Even if the wicked dead are resurrected to battle in the final war and are then totally consumed by fire, how is it that they are thrown into the lake of fire in Rev 20:15 if they are consumed in the final battle?

Are you saying that they will be resurrected then be consumed by fire and resurrected again to be thrown in the lake of fire?


Michael,

Your hope for God's coming Kingdom will not be misplaced, knowing that it is the faith we place in the Son which shall deliver us into the new Kingdom. Beloved, hold on to that hope of Christ's victory, for He alone shall deliver us.



Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

As pertaining to the second death:

2Th 1:9: it is an everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.

Mar 9:44, 46, 48 Where their worm never (absolute negative) dies and the fire (God's wrath) is never (absolute negative) quenched. (note the absence of a qualifying negative. That is, this verse is not spoken in the subjunctive, and by which, giving us a possibility of an end. No. It is absolute, no possibilities of it being anything different.)

Does not Rev 19:20 tell us that they who would receive the mark of the beast will be thrown ALIVE into the lake of fire?

Did you catch that my friend: ALIVE!!!!!!

I don't believe the Bible teaches that Jesus will raise the wicked dead, when He appears.. I believe that Jesus will raise the righteous dead. The righteous dead along with the righteous living, will meet Jesus in tha air.

When Jesus comes,,the living wicked are killed by the brightness of His Coming. They don't live again until after the 1000 years, at which time Jesus will raise them...

I have a feeling that you believe that Jesus will set up His kingdom on this earth, when He comes. I do not!

I believe we will meet Jesus in the air, and we will go to heaven, where God is and the Holy City Jerusalem and the garden of Eden and the Ark of the Covenant containing the 10 Commandments.

When Jesus appears, this earth will be a total wreck, un inhabitable.

Jeremiah the prophet spoke of that day... "The slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end. Thay shall not be lamented nor gathered nor buried. They shall be as dung upon the earth." Jeremiah

"And, lo, I beheld, there was no man." Jeremiah 4:25

"I beheld the earth and indeed it was without form and void; and the heavens, they had no light." Jeremiah 4:23


After the plagues, the great earthquake at the appearance of Jesus.the earth will be in total chaos. Jeremiah closely decribes the earth in the same condition that Moses does at the beginning of creation. Void and without form.

The earth will be full of rotting bodies.

Satan and his angels will be the only occupants left alive on earth for 1000 years.

The Saints are in heaven during this time.
 
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It was really a simple question: Does the Bible say that Sodom & Gommorah was destroyed with "eternal fire'? But,,, you ducked it.

Why didn't you answer ? Read Jude 7. See what the scripture says.

LoL I didn't avoid your 1 and only verse that you brag about and sadly you failed to interpret its meaning.

I gave you answers using not only one verse but multiple taken from the bible itself. You seem you are the one who's ducking my questions. LoL

tsk tsk tsk I'm still waiting your answer...

God bless you brother