RedTent and john832 posted sensible, realistic,truth. As has been pointed out, people who do certain things won't see God'skingdom. It is in the Word. We believe it. It is not difficult to understand.Then why is there ridicule of their comments if we all believe the Bible? Inthis case, the reason is because you, according to your post, have not learned to differentiatebetween committing a sin (and needing to go to the throne of God forforgiveness) and making a habit of committing that sin. When it is a way of lifeto be a drunkard, therein lies the problem.
Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?
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E
Yes,, But we have ALL DONE THESE THINGS have we not?
What red tent and john do not realise is something separates us from others who continue to do those things. that is the point I am trying to make.
Again, if you had been around and KNOW what they teach, you would understand this.
lol. No maam. that is not the case. And I am not trying to be rude, or disrespectful. Just trying to show you what I see.
The case is I continue to sin, we ALL DO. the more mature in Christ we become, the more sinfull we realise we are (thats why the law CONTINUES to be the schoolmaster.
If we focus on just these few sins, we will never see our true nature, and never be able to grow.
A christian who gets drunk will not realise the true blessings God has to bestow on him, And will miss out on alot of Gods blessing. does that mean that Christian is not saved because he struggles with a sin? Don't we ALL struggle with certain sins?
If struggling with a sin is causes out ticket to heaven to be voided. God is a liar. And we are not under grace, but under law.
They teach we can void salvation. Thus they teach a gospel which is not from God. but is based on mans ability to work.
RedTent and john832 posted sensible, realistic,truth. As has been pointed out, people who do certain things won't see God'skingdom. It is in the Word. We believe it. It is not difficult to understand.Then why is there ridicule of their comments if we all believe the Bible? Inthis case, the reason is because you, according to your post, have not learned to differentiatebetween committing a sin (and needing to go to the throne of God forforgiveness) and making a habit of committing that sin. When it is a way of life, therein lies the problem.
I have seen the unkindness on both sides too. It is very sad. Let's take the comments near to this post on this thread for an example. RedTent and john832 posted sensible, realistic, truth. As has been pointed out, people who do certain things won't see God's kingdom. It is in the Word. We believe it. It is not difficult to understand. Then why is there ridicule of their comments if we all believe the Bible? In this case, the reason is because some people have not learned to differentiate between committing a sin (and needing to go to the throne of God for forgiveness) and making a habit of committing that sin. When it is a way of life to be a drunkard, for instance, therein lies the problem.
In my own small way, I am trying to make a habit of speaking to others as I believe God is pleased with. I will tell you here and now - I fail. There may be times I write something that comes from me only and not the Holy Spirit in me, but it is my fault for letting my human nature override the Spirit of God. Just so you know ahead of time
I read this often and have it hanging here in my computer room - lest I forget...
A Christian should be a striking likeness of Jesus Christ. You have read lives of Christ, beautifully and eloquently written, but the best life of Christ is his living biography, written out in the words and actions of his people. If we were what we profess to be, and what we should be, we should be pictures of Christ; yea, such striking likenesses of him, that the world would not have to hold us up by the hour together, and say, “Well, it seems somewhat of a likeness;” but they would, when they once beheld us, exclaim, “He has been with Jesus;”
-C. H. Spurgeon
In my own small way, I am trying to make a habit of speaking to others as I believe God is pleased with. I will tell you here and now - I fail. There may be times I write something that comes from me only and not the Holy Spirit in me, but it is my fault for letting my human nature override the Spirit of God. Just so you know ahead of time
I read this often and have it hanging here in my computer room - lest I forget...
A Christian should be a striking likeness of Jesus Christ. You have read lives of Christ, beautifully and eloquently written, but the best life of Christ is his living biography, written out in the words and actions of his people. If we were what we profess to be, and what we should be, we should be pictures of Christ; yea, such striking likenesses of him, that the world would not have to hold us up by the hour together, and say, “Well, it seems somewhat of a likeness;” but they would, when they once beheld us, exclaim, “He has been with Jesus;”
-C. H. Spurgeon
Regardless of who says it we are to line it up with scripture. Test everything and hold on to what is good.
And I agree we should be more like Christ.
Wonder why Jesus Christ, Himself, says to go daily to our Father and ask Him to forgive us?
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
We go to God at least once a day, and ask for our DAILY bread and while we are before the throne we ask forgiveness for our sins. Care to explain this?
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
We go to God at least once a day, and ask for our DAILY bread and while we are before the throne we ask forgiveness for our sins. Care to explain this?
E
no maam, again this is not the problem.
the problem is I do not focus in the sins people keep complaining about. I focus on the sins i struggle with. Unlike the pharisee who praises god he is not like the sinner, i get on my knees and thank God for saving a wretched soul such as myself, and the ocntinual mercy he bestows on me ever day. i realize my sin, and how totally undeserving I am.
is there a problem with people struggling with those sins? yes. And we as christians should be godly and do what God says should be done to help them break these sin habits.
should we condemn them like many churches I know, and these people want to do?? No? Who made us God. and who made us better than these people?
like scripture says, get the log out of your eye, before you try to remove the speck out of your brothers eyes..
it is easy to see sin in others, but if we are not willing to admit the continual sin in our own lives, we have no right or ability to help those struggling with these sins, we instead become hypocrites!
the problem is I do not focus in the sins people keep complaining about. I focus on the sins i struggle with. Unlike the pharisee who praises god he is not like the sinner, i get on my knees and thank God for saving a wretched soul such as myself, and the ocntinual mercy he bestows on me ever day. i realize my sin, and how totally undeserving I am.
is there a problem with people struggling with those sins? yes. And we as christians should be godly and do what God says should be done to help them break these sin habits.
should we condemn them like many churches I know, and these people want to do?? No? Who made us God. and who made us better than these people?
like scripture says, get the log out of your eye, before you try to remove the speck out of your brothers eyes..
it is easy to see sin in others, but if we are not willing to admit the continual sin in our own lives, we have no right or ability to help those struggling with these sins, we instead become hypocrites!
E
care to explain why Gods forgiveness is always based on grace, and not on our works?
care to explain how you can KNOW every sin you ever commit in order to even confess them?
care to explain why you think our salvation is like a revolving door. We ar ein and out in and out depending on whether we remembered to confess some sin, or had the ability to break a habit we are strugling with or not?
care to explain how you can KNOW every sin you ever commit in order to even confess them?
care to explain why you think our salvation is like a revolving door. We ar ein and out in and out depending on whether we remembered to confess some sin, or had the ability to break a habit we are strugling with or not?
Sorry that got posted twice - I'm learning how this works when I need to edit something 
I meant to just add this scripture.
Romans 12:1-3
1. I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical "Temple worship" for you.
2 In other words, do not let yourselves be conformed to the standards of the world. Instead, keep letting yourselves be transformed by the renewing of your minds; so that you will know what God wants and will agree that what he wants is good, satisfying and able to succeed.
3 For I am telling every single one of you, through the grace that has been given to me, not to have exaggerated ideas about your own importance. Instead, develop a sober estimate of yourself based on the standard which God has given to each of you,
I meant to just add this scripture.Romans 12:1-3
1. I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical "Temple worship" for you.
2 In other words, do not let yourselves be conformed to the standards of the world. Instead, keep letting yourselves be transformed by the renewing of your minds; so that you will know what God wants and will agree that what he wants is good, satisfying and able to succeed.
3 For I am telling every single one of you, through the grace that has been given to me, not to have exaggerated ideas about your own importance. Instead, develop a sober estimate of yourself based on the standard which God has given to each of you,
E
Sorry that got posted twice - I'm learning how this works when I need to edit something I meant to just add this scripture.
Romans 12:1-3
1. I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical "Temple worship" for you.
2 In other words, do not let yourselves be conformed to the standards of the world. Instead, keep letting yourselves be transformed by the renewing of your minds; so that you will know what God wants and will agree that what he wants is good, satisfying and able to succeed.
3 For I am telling every single one of you, through the grace that has been given to me, not to have exaggerated ideas about your own importance. Instead, develop a sober estimate of yourself based on the standard which God has given to each of you,
I meant to just add this scripture.Romans 12:1-3
1. I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical "Temple worship" for you.
2 In other words, do not let yourselves be conformed to the standards of the world. Instead, keep letting yourselves be transformed by the renewing of your minds; so that you will know what God wants and will agree that what he wants is good, satisfying and able to succeed.
3 For I am telling every single one of you, through the grace that has been given to me, not to have exaggerated ideas about your own importance. Instead, develop a sober estimate of yourself based on the standard which God has given to each of you,
I agree with this 100 %.
I just do not believe this is a pre-requsite for one to be saved, or to keep the salvation God has given us and not have God take it back.
I believe this is an ongoing situation we always need to be in, True children of God will attempt to do this. They may struggle at times, may even walk away for a bit. But true Christians will always come back.
I have seen it many times, I have also seen people walk away, no regret or remourse, and never come back. I think we can understand these people were never given the spirit of God.
As God says, He chastens those who are his. Now please tell me how the chastening of God would not bring someone back (if you have not felt it, maybe you can;t, I have felt it, and it is irresistable, you are up against a wal, and only have one way to turn, that is back to God. He did this for me, and I know others he did this too.
You can count me in with Paul...
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul thought he could...
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Hmmm, future tense here.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Pretty iffy comment here for a sure thing, wouldn't you say?
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
If Paul didn't think he had already arrived, perhaps I shouldn't either.
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
So, I think I will continue to "press forward" also, that I amight attain to the prize or as Paul said...
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul thought he could...
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Hmmm, future tense here.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Pretty iffy comment here for a sure thing, wouldn't you say?
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
If Paul didn't think he had already arrived, perhaps I shouldn't either.
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
So, I think I will continue to "press forward" also, that I amight attain to the prize or as Paul said...
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
E
Sorry that got posted twice - I'm learning how this works when I need to edit something I meant to just add this scripture.
Romans 12:1-3
1. I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical "Temple worship" for you.
2 In other words, do not let yourselves be conformed to the standards of the world. Instead, keep letting yourselves be transformed by the renewing of your minds; so that you will know what God wants and will agree that what he wants is good, satisfying and able to succeed.
3 For I am telling every single one of you, through the grace that has been given to me, not to have exaggerated ideas about your own importance. Instead, develop a sober estimate of yourself based on the standard which God has given to each of you,
I meant to just add this scripture.Romans 12:1-3
1. I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical "Temple worship" for you.
2 In other words, do not let yourselves be conformed to the standards of the world. Instead, keep letting yourselves be transformed by the renewing of your minds; so that you will know what God wants and will agree that what he wants is good, satisfying and able to succeed.
3 For I am telling every single one of you, through the grace that has been given to me, not to have exaggerated ideas about your own importance. Instead, develop a sober estimate of yourself based on the standard which God has given to each of you,
Exactly! As God tells us in Acts 17:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
E
1st off. Just-us-2. This should prove my point.
Now to John.
Running a race to earn a reward.
can you explain romans 4 to us? How if abraham worked he would earn reward. but not before God. He Trusted God and God acredited to his account righteousnessness.
Paul is not talking about keeping salvation. he is talking about earning eternal rewards, and being a light in this world where God can use him.
A christian who becomes a hypocrite, or falls into a sin habit, and does not try to break out of it, loses his light, and can not be used by God. they are castaways in the work of God and held powerless.
It does not say they lose salvation.
Again, Keep on trying to earn your salvation. You will fail.
Paul spoke of eternal life. He spoke of the eternal seal of the spirit. he spoke of passing from death to life. He KNEW he would make it because he said quite plainly his wish was to be absent from the body and present with the lord (if he did not know his eternal life was secure, he would never make such a claim) he spent 4 chapters in ephesians proclaiming the eternal rest we HAVE in Jesus based not on our works, but on his grace and mercy. He spent romans doing the same, There is no more condemnation. He spent most of his public ministry fighting these people who claimed you could lose salvation if you did not line up to Gods law.
Now who should I trust? You or paul??
I see. That clears things up some. Not that anyone asked, but my belief is that a person who is truly saved, born again is not going to lose his/her salvation because the desire to please God will be so great, that when they do mess up and have to ask God's forgiveness, it is exactly that - a mistake that can be forgiven.
E
amen,
it is against human nature to see this. we want to compair ourselves with others so we do not feel so bad about ourselves and then can excuse, or hide our own sin.
It is also a major blow to human nature to think god can save a person who struggled with deep worldly sins, and I spent my life trying not to commit those sins, and God may not save me..
Satan uses these against us, and it works so well,
it is against human nature to see this. we want to compair ourselves with others so we do not feel so bad about ourselves and then can excuse, or hide our own sin.
It is also a major blow to human nature to think god can save a person who struggled with deep worldly sins, and I spent my life trying not to commit those sins, and God may not save me..
Satan uses these against us, and it works so well,